All humans are equal ?

[Zawoyo]

I often hear such kind of sentences like
"Human is Human"
"Christ is Christ"
"all Humans are equal"
(especially if Assyrians want to or would marry a non Assyrian)

Of course, all humans are in a physical view equal. But the human is more than a piece of meat, the human has a soul.
It´s natural that humans border themselves from others and integrate themselves in singel groups/communities/nations.

I think that´s a process of our soul. Our soul is looking for identity.
Searching souls which have not enough information about their identity are often starting with the question "who am I not?"

One of my old teachers gave me an example:
Everybody in our class comes to school with white clothes every day (... "who I am ?")
Any time other students will be aware that we belong to the same class and the first prejudices will start ...
... "look at these ..." "look, they think, they ..." etc. (... "who am I not ?")

But that´s natural. The human is naturally no 'lone wolf' , maybe because the humans need each other since 200.000 years or so.
But not all humas can go together through the life as one single group/community/nation because there are too many differences, such as language, color, ethnical origin, culture, religion, etc (example with the white clothes).

Therefor I think a healthy Assyrian national thinking is good and healthy to our souls by filling them with identity.


What do you think about that ?

 

[Renee]

People are not the same. As such, different values are placed on these differences (e.g. intelligance, sexuality, morality, physical appearance/abilities, just to name a few), in turn creating inequality and all its practical applications (e.g. prejudice, wealth distribution, etc).

From a political and/or legal point-of-view, many strive for the provision of equal access to rights and opportunities, however, knowing the realities of the world and humankind, this could only be achieved to a limited degree.

I think people should give up on trying to be equal and focus on accepting difference.

 

[ultoMa]

what about humans who don't believe in souls? 

 

[Knight]

From God's point of view, we are all equal, except Jacob, he's a Jew....he's from the Chosen Nation, he's extra special!

Seriously though, we need individualism and community. We need privacy and communion. We need to express ourselves and be assured. That is the human being.

To have the above, we do need equality from a human rights perspective.

 

[Zawoyo]

what about humans who don't believe in souls? 

People who don?t believe in souls, describe that what we call a soul as .... hmmm don?t know which word it?s in English with this context ... animus/genie/mind/nous/... (?)

 

[ultoMa]

People who don?t believe in souls, describe that what we call a soul as .... hmmm don?t know which word it?s in English with this context ... animus/genie/mind/nous/... (?)

well, no, because you believe that souls exit the body after the physical body dies.  The mind dies along with the physical body, so the two are different concepts. 

 

[Zawoyo]

well, no, because you believe that souls exit the body after the physical body dies.  The mind dies along with the physical body, so the two are different concepts. 

In reference to the death you are right. But if we just speak about the life the soul and the mind are equal or at least similar.

 

[ultoMa]

In reference to the death you are right. But if we just speak about the life the soul and the mind are equal or at least similar.

so, in relation to your initial post, are you suggesting that we should be filling our minds with identity?  And if so, how does this relate to whether humans are equal or not?

 

[Zawoyo]

so, in relation to your initial post, are you suggesting that we should be filling our minds with identity?

Yes.

And if so, how does this relate to whether humans are equal or not?

In the inequality of humans whith their souls/minds are advices/clues to the personal and collective identity.

 

[ultoMa]

Yes.

In the inequality of humans whith their souls/minds are advices/clues to the personal and collective identity.

I'm not quite sure i understand dude.  Can you elaborate?

 

[Salem]

If all humans were equal the world would have been a vicious place where everyone is competing for the same thing. There is an order to the world because people are different, some people pursue money, some pursue solitude, and some are just trying to survive! You have well above average minds (the great scientific and thinking minds of the past and today), above average minds (the people who do well in their role and lead people), average minds (people who are competent at what they do but there is no progress in their lives), below average minds (the weaker performers, the uninspired and unmotivated bunch that might not be necessarily bad at what they do but they certainly aren't going anywhere in their life in a hurry), and finally the well below-average minds (those are simply slow, they require a lot of time and effort to absorb and analyse information, these need a lot of help and hand-holding in their lives). So yes, people are definitely different.

 

[Zawoyo]

I'm not quite sure i understand dude.  Can you elaborate?

Did you never heard of this way to identify somebody or something?
Searching minds/souls which have not enough information about their identity are often starting with the question "who am I not?"

- I am not white or black ...
- I am not always German/English/... speaking
- I am not like the Christians in the west
- My values of life, family, etc are different like the values of the most people in my surrounding
- etc ...

... and this goes on until I find better advices/clues to find myself.

 

[MXJSPH]

Different potentials. Different vehicles to achieve those potentials.

But equal rights.

 

[Rita Lazar]

I remember in one of my Anthropology classes my prof. was talking about how there absolutely has to be differences in people otherwise society wouldn't work.  If we were all equal, then we would all have equal capabilities as well as equal desires.  And because of human nature we would all strive to be the best we could be so that would mean everyone would become rocket scientists, brain surgeons, and lawyers. But that would be impossible anyway because there would be no teachers to teach us these things since teachers are underpaid...who would want that job? 

Also, I forgot the author's name but someone wrote a book about the education system and how it's designed to maintain society's structure and keep people unequal.  For example, community colleges in the ghettos of the United States are taught really useless facts that they just have to memorize (dots), but Ivy League students from old money families are given the kind of education that would help them rule the country (how to CONNECT the dots) which they later accomplish through politics or being the heads of large corporations.  The system is designed this way so that the discouraged and mentally unchallenged students of the ghettos drop out of school and take up blue collar work because we need janitors, police officers, and construction workers.

So apart from the inherent differences in people, there are also imposed differences thrust upon us in order to maintain social order.  I don't think it could work any other way.

 

[MXJSPH]

I remember in one of my Anthropology classes my prof. was talking about how there absolutely has to be differences in people otherwise society wouldn't work.  If we were all equal, then we would all have equal capabilities as well as equal desires.  And because of human nature we would all strive to be the best we could be so that would mean everyone would become rocket scientists, brain surgeons, and lawyers. But that would be impossible anyway because there would be no teachers to teach us these things since teachers are underpaid...who would want that job? 

Your first paragraph starts off my presenting a valid point - highlighing our differences in order to maintain a healthy heterogenous society. However, the differences that are important are those of profession and career path (both the capitalist and communist literature agree on this). The bit where it gets muddles is that you assume equality means equality of character and drive. Equality has been interpreted as such because of the word's utilisation in religion - but equality, as I understand it, simply means equality of access, and an equality of rights.

If a poor kid from a minority group wants to be an astronaut, his economic background should not impede him, only his (lack of) talent in the field. Admittedly, this is why schools definitely need to be reformed, especially in the U.S., as you have children whose lives are already determined simply by being born in a certain area. Developed countries should not be like this.

You also view pay as a motivator in certain circumstances in which it shouldn't be. Just like I visit a doctor who takes his job to be a personal matter, and I buy a painting from an artist who first loves his subject matter, not the renumeration that comes after; I wish to be taught by a teacher who is as animated and engaging as anyone can be during class. If they were motivated by a pay cheque, that kind of motivation will rub off on me and the other students. So I wouldn't belittle the job of a teacher - every job is important in its own way. We think of rocket scientist as much more important because of the pay attached to such a career, but if we saw things only in terms of pay, a rocket scientist would be something like ten times more important than a teacher? Or an investment banker one hundred times more important than a teacher? Maybe some people think so - I dont.

Also, I forgot the author's name but someone wrote a book about the education system and how it's designed to maintain society's structure and keep people unequal.  For example, community colleges in the ghettos of the United States are taught really useless facts that they just have to memorize (dots), but Ivy League students from old money families are given the kind of education that would help them rule the country (how to CONNECT the dots) which they later accomplish through politics or being the heads of large corporations.  The system is designed this way so that the discouraged and mentally unchallenged students of the ghettos drop out of school and take up blue collar work because we need janitors, police officers, and construction workers.

Hence why the parents that can afford it send their kids to 'good schools' (meaning schools that tend to produce leaders). A good education shouldn't be determined by a good background wage. I understand the more reputable institutions in the U.S. charge what they like per year.. which is awful. The universities here are capped - so the money I pay per year at Cambridge will be the same as what I will pay at the less reputable college down the road.

That is a good policy, but an even better one, and one ultimately to further increase social mobility (which is the modern term for equality/equality of access) is internal education reform, a scrapping of third party funded faith schools, and a dynamic management of the national syllabus that encourages ambitious students from whatever background to aim for what they want to do and make that OK. Like you said, not everyone can be a rocket scientist, but being anything else shouldn't be a failure. Everyone should obviously have back-up plans, but these back-ups shouldn't be strived towards before you even give your dream a shot. It is the responsibility of a society to provide equal opportunities for all it's citizens to realise their dreams - shedding light on the inherent evil of conservatism!

So apart from the inherent differences in people, there are also imposed differences thrust upon us in order to maintain social order.  I don't think it could work any other way.

Imposed differences thrust upon us to maintain social order.. Speaking like an American capitalist behind closed doors there

 

[Alen Sin]

I often hear such kind of sentences like
"Human is Human"
"Christ is Christ"
"all Humans are equal"
(especially if Assyrians want to or would marry a non Assyrian)

Of course, all humans are in a physical view equal. But the human is more than a piece of meat, the human has a soul.
It?s natural that humans border themselves from others and integrate themselves in singel groups/communities/nations.

I think that?s a process of our soul. Our soul is looking for identity.
Searching souls which have not enough information about their identity are often starting with the question "who am I not?"

One of my old teachers gave me an example:
Everybody in our class comes to school with white clothes every day (... "who I am ?")
Any time other students will be aware that we belong to the same class and the first prejudices will start ...
... "look at these ..." "look, they think, they ..." etc. (... "who am I not ?")

But that?s natural. The human is naturally no 'lone wolf' , maybe because the humans need each other since 200.000 years or so.
But not all humas can go together through the life as one single group/community/nation because there are too many differences, such as language, color, ethnical origin, culture, religion, etc (example with the white clothes).

Therefor I think a healthy Assyrian national thinking is good and healthy to our souls by filling them with identity.


What do you think about that ?

This is definitely a more complex question than it sounds.  Even the phrase "All men are created equal" does not fit into reality.  Think about that phrase for a second:  Does that include Retards, Hermaphrodites, Mutes, People born with missing genitals or limbs, or extra genitals and limbs?  How then are "All men created equal"?

So based on that reality and aspect, the answer is an obvious no.  Now the right question would be:  Do all men/humans deserve equal rights?  Regardless of their Physical appearances or handicaps, I believe Yes, of course!  Every human deserves the same freedom and opportunity to live freely and be the best they personally can be.  We all have different abilities and capabilities, and each of us deserve the CHANCE to be the best our own bodies/minds will allow us to be.

Because of our natural born differences, the world, with all it's classes is why & how it is.  We are limited to our own mental/physical potentials, because we are all NOT created equally, but when it comes to human rights, sure we should all have equality there.

Regarding the soul searching:  I do believe in the Holy Trinity-Mind, Body, Soul.  Every human is born with these 3 elements, and our identity consists of these exact 3 elements, and in more than one way, if you can expand your thinking.  For me, I am Physically an Ashuraya/Ashurian/Assyrian because of my genes, my parents genes and so on...  I am mentally an Ashuraya because of the way I was brought up, because I've made a conscience effort to research our history and identity to confirm what my parents taught me, because of my culture that my people continue to display, perpetuate, celebrate and protect, and I am an Ashurian Spiritually because I personally believe that our ancestors had a far more advanced understanding of Creation, God and our world/s, so that's how my Soul is also Ashurian.

All these elements make up my Ashurian identity, and they're all related and cannot be separated, not now, not in the afterlife.  So is it a good thing to teach our kids about the Ashurian identity and what it truly means?  I think it's priceless, and it will only shape them into better human beings with a respect for all the cultures and peoples of the world.

B'sheina

 

[jonadona]

"All men are created equal" refers to rights.  No need to dissect it.

 

[callingcard]

Preserving identity is a wonderful thing.

Accepting others can be different it's another good thing ( and I am not talking about "tolerance" as seen in Western modern societies )

 

[Zawoyo]

I want to add a quote, Carl Marx about Poland:

As long as a viable nation is captivated by a foreign conqueror, this nation turns all its power, all its efforts, all its energy against the foreign enemy; and during this time its interior live stays paralysed; and during this time it stays unable to work for social Emanzipation.

I think this shows a kind of parallel line to the here mentioned problem of our people.

 

[TheUnknownSoldier]

In my travels and experiences, humans of all kind accept others, and then there is the exact polar opposite. The kind of hatred and indifference exhibited by many people I have met and interacted with. It is disgusting. I come to appreciate all life nowadays, from the smallest stalk of grass to the largest fish in the sea. Humans, however, I find myself growing more discontent with day after day in this dreary existence.

 

[Lovemoon]

I'd say the "all humans are equal" is a BS statement or whatever u call it.