Working with allies

[Bronit Omta]

To be realistic, we won't be able to achieve anything by trying to be independent from working with anyone. The west barely supports the Assyrians and why should they?

Assyrians have this hatred for Kurds and Arabs thats left us fighting for either side or dismissing them as enemies.

Let us get this straight.. We are a minority in the Middle East no questions asked. We are aiming for autonomy but how can we gain autonomy if we're insufficient in basically all areas?

Israel was formed through hard work and the Jews were at the top of basically all the super powers in terms of power and wealth. They helped other governments such as America in America's self interests and were granted Israel as a gift of their loyalty (figure of speech). So let me paint this picture, the Kurds are nowhere near America even in an analogy but the point is, we must work with our neighbours who do want to work with us and albeit they may have greedy self interests in our land, who doesn't?! If we are able to help them make Kurdistan a country then we can work to get Assyria to become a nation as well. You cannot assume Kurds won't do the same and we must take a gamble in order to win.

We have nothing to lose. There has been a massive exodus of Assyrians from Iraq and Syria and they will slowly leave if we do not work with the Kurds now in helping each other.

ONE thing you must accept is that humans are greedy people and are self interest driven. We want the best for ourselves. Our ancestors were like that. They would take large swathes of land that wasn't theirs because of self interest in the land and to conquer empires. A minority must work with the plurality or majority in order to succeed. We must not base our judgement over our emotions. If Kurdistan is not a nation, Assyria will never become one. They're next in line to gain autonomy and we must become allies in order to gain our own self interests.

NB: IF you reply with "You're a traitor" or "You're a Kurd" or "Fuck Kurds" please kindly piss off because you're a detriment to our success.

 

[Cascade]

I couldn't agree more.

I've gotten some hate once (in here) when I simply said that Northern Iraq should ditch the "Iraq" name and become Kurdistan already. People were vehemently against this idea for some reason.

Yes, in actuality, if Kurdistan becomes an independent country we would be much closer to be autonomous. At least, it's much more likely.

 

[ins001]

Israel was formed through hard work and the Jews were at the top of basically all the super powers in terms of power and wealth. They helped other governments such as America in America's self interests and were granted Israel as a gift of their loyalty (figure of speech).

Well, Israel was granted to the Jewish people through Great Britain by the Balfour Declaration, but for all intents & purposes we'll stick to your story.
I guess that's also why you said "(figure of speech)"

 

[ins001]

To be realistic, we won't be able to achieve anything by trying to be independent from working with anyone. The west barely supports the Assyrians and why should they?

Assyrians have this hatred for Kurds and Arabs thats left us fighting for either side or dismissing them as enemies.

Let us get this straight.. We are a minority in the Middle East no questions asked. We are aiming for autonomy but how can we gain autonomy if we're insufficient in basically all areas?

Israel was formed through hard work and the Jews were at the top of basically all the super powers in terms of power and wealth. They helped other governments such as America in America's self interests and were granted Israel as a gift of their loyalty (figure of speech). So let me paint this picture, the Kurds are nowhere near America even in an analogy but the point is, we must work with our neighbours who do want to work with us and albeit they may have greedy self interests in our land, who doesn't?! If we are able to help them make Kurdistan a country then we can work to get Assyria to become a nation as well. You cannot assume Kurds won't do the same and we must take a gamble in order to win.

We have nothing to lose. There has been a massive exodus of Assyrians from Iraq and Syria and they will slowly leave if we do not work with the Kurds now in helping each other.

ONE thing you must accept is that humans are greedy people and are self interest driven. We want the best for ourselves. Our ancestors were like that. They would take large swathes of land that wasn't theirs because of self interest in the land and to conquer empires. A minority must work with the plurality or majority in order to succeed. We must not base our judgement over our emotions. If Kurdistan is not a nation, Assyria will never become one. They're next in line to gain autonomy and we must become allies in order to gain our own self interests.

NB: IF you reply with "You're a traitor" or "You're a Kurd" or "**** Kurds" please kindly piss off because you're a detriment to our success.

I should say, first of all, Thank You, everything you say makes sense.
We already have enough enemies, and the Kurds should be the last people to be our enemies.

 

[mrzurnaci]

Well, Israel was granted to the Jewish people through Great Britain by the Balfour Declaration, but for all intents & purposes we'll stick to your story.
I guess that's also why you said "(figure of speech)"

Why though? If you read Theodor Herzl's (founder of Zionism) book called 'The Jewish State', he states that Jews in every country will be discriminated and or hated, so he pretty much preaches that the only solution is to create a Jewish state in palestine.

Jews united for the sake of survival to create Israel.

The issue with Assyrians is that we need a good reason to unite and march all the way to Northern mesopotamia and form our own country or autonomous area...

Sadly, saying it's our homeland isn't too good of a reason. What would be a very good reason though?

 

[Etain]

Ally with Arab Christians as well.

 

[ins001]

Why though? If you read Theodor Herzl's (founder of Zionism) book called 'The Jewish State', he states that Jews in every country will be discriminated and or hated, so he pretty much preaches that the only solution is to create a Jewish state in palestine.

Why what?

Jews united for the sake of survival to create Israel.

The issue with Assyrians is that we need a good reason to unite and march all the way to Northern mesopotamia and form our own country or autonomous area...

Sadly, saying it's our homeland isn't too good of a reason. What would be a very good reason though?

Your right, the Jews had a very good reason to re-establish Israel.

 

[Bronit Omta]

The Jews however had leverage and were basically advisors to the super power nations. They dominated Russia, England, France and the USA and are very intelligent and wise people.

We must have something that would benefit the Kurds. Say for example, we have the ability to have all Assyrians keep Barzani in power, then he may in return grant us special provisions or allow us to build autonomy, don't take the example i used literally but that's the kind of jist i'm emphasising we do.

 

[Googoo]

Work for yourselves first, form yourselves, do something to the world, raise awareness about your case (I don't know about you guys and I live in the M.E, my dad watches the news everyday - although, tbh I remember reading Assyrian Christian  when ISIS first appeared on Al-Jazeera and my grandfather studied in Baghdad) and UNITE (It's not abnormal how separated you guys are despite the small numbers).

You need someone Fresh from Iraq to understand the situation much better given how complex the M.E is and you need an international mind which is basically you guys living abroad to work together. Don't ally yourself with anyone as of yet, but rather, raise awareness about your cause with every middle easterner you meet be it, Kurd, Iraqi, Lebanese etc.  Kurds have their own plans and they don't need/want anyone to come along. An example, Sinjar/Shingal (Which is part of Iraq not Kurdish Iraq) has been taken by ISIS in 2014 and now the kurdish peshmerga freed it from ISIS, so they demand sinjar/shingal to be part of Kurdish Iraq. Now, a lot of ezidis living there have stated that it was a game played on them by co-operation from ISIS and Kurdish Peshmerga in order to take Shingal and claim it's Kurdish. A lot of assyrians living there agree with the ezidis and motivate them to speak up against the Kurds, however, the kurds consider the assyrians as inciting hatred and creating a hurdle in their path of independence or gaining more land. So, they really don't want anyone to "come out of their way" even if it's good or bad, the Kurds would want someone with a higher population, let's say, the whole of Armenia to stand with them rather than a minority in Iraq/Kurdish Iraq.

Also, who said they are living the best conditions in Kurdistan Iraq under Barzani? My boyfriend is Turkish-Kurdish and he has family in Kurdistan Iraq and the guys in his family would DIE to leave Kurdistan, they hate Barzani. So, they were planning to come to Europe by pretending to be refugees, so kurds are actually still leaving Kurdistan. They're not exactly united as people either as they make it seem for instance, Turkish Kurds have a different political agenda (they want kurdistan to have several autonomies) and Barzani is O.K with Erdogan bombing Turkish-Kurdish area. They make it seem like women are fighting for freedom as well, I'm not denying that there are kurdish peshmerga, but, I remember speaking to his kurdish-iraqi relative and he went like "oh..qleeel qleeel" (Very very little), in reality, it's not what they make it seem in social media i.e. All courageous and perfect.

Anyways, let's not talk about Kurds, like I said you need to unite amongst yourselves first. The next step would be raising awareness and forming diplomatic relationships with anyone in the M.E (IMO, Arab christians mainly in Iraq or Secular Iraqis or Iraqis abroad, Armenians (you're already okay with them), persians, azeris) and then fighting for an autonomous region.

 

[Googoo]

It's abnormal how you guys are separated *

 

[ins001]

It's abnormal how you guys are separated *

It is, It's demented how separated we are.

 

[mrzurnaci]

The Jews however had leverage and were basically advisors to the super power nations. They dominated Russia, England, France and the USA and are very intelligent and wise people.

We must have something that would benefit the Kurds. Say for example, we have the ability to have all Assyrians keep Barzani in power, then he may in return grant us special provisions or allow us to build autonomy, don't take the example i used literally but that's the kind of jist i'm emphasising we do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Judenstaat

Did the jews have leverage to the influential and powerful countries during the 1890s?

Theodor Herzl was the founder of Zionism by his first book, "The Jewish State: Proposal of a modern solution for the Jewish question"

Herzl envisioned the founding of a future independent Jewish state during the 20th century. He argued that the best way to avoid antisemitism in Europe was to create this independent Jewish state.

The book was used to encourage Jews from all across Europe to purchase land in Palestine. In Der Judenstaat ("The Jewish State"), Herzl noted the possibility of a Jewish state in Argentina.


The most interesting piece of advice that Herzl said was not to immigrate...

His advice was that gradual immigration will end badly by having the native population feel threatened. Only immigrate when one is given legal sanction by that country to do so.

Theodor Herzl is an interesting guy and definitely one to read up on.

Herzl thought up not only to think of Argentina as a new homeland for Jews but Uganda in Africa as well.

take a look at this link as well -> http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Herzl.html

 

[ins001]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Judenstaat

Did the jews have leverage to the influential and powerful countries during the 1890s?

Theodor Herzl was the founder of Zionism by his first book, "The Jewish State: Proposal of a modern solution for the Jewish question"

Herzl envisioned the founding of a future independent Jewish state during the 20th century. He argued that the best way to avoid antisemitism in Europe was to create this independent Jewish state.

The book was used to encourage Jews from all across Europe to purchase land in Palestine. In Der Judenstaat ("The Jewish State"), Herzl noted the possibility of a Jewish state in Argentina.


The most interesting piece of advice that Herzl said was not to immigrate...

His advice was that gradual immigration will end badly by having the native population feel threatened. Only immigrate when one is given legal sanction by that country to do so.

Theodor Herzl is an interesting guy and definitely one to read up on.

Herzl thought up not only to think of Argentina as a new homeland for Jews but Uganda in Africa as well.

take a look at this link as well -> http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Herzl.html

So much wisdom from this man Thoedor Herzl

 

[Etain]

Herzl thought up not only to think of Argentina as a new homeland for Jews but Uganda in Africa as well.

So Jews have as much a claim to Palestine as they do to Argentina or Uganda?
HAHAHA

You don't want Zionism for Assyrians. You want something like Ba'athism.

 

[ins001]

So Jews have as much a claim to Palestine as they do to Argentina or Uganda?
HAHAHA

No, they don't, which is why they don't have land there.

You don't want Zionism for Assyrians. You want something like Ba'athism.

I think you are severely misinformed about Ba'athism.

 

[mrzurnaci]

No, they don't, which is why they don't have land there.

You don't want Zionism for Assyrians. You want something like Ba'athism.
I think you are severely misinformed about Ba'athism.

ikr lol, Baathism is Arabism and Socialism...

Socialism isn't good for any country let alone with nationalism...

 

[Kebabs?s]

-__- Kurd's wont give us anything. Do you people really believe we will get anything from working with the Kurd's ? The only thing we we will get is another Muslim state confiscating our land and forcing us to flee. An autonomy in S?dert?lje Sweden is more possible then the Kurd's ever giving us anything. Why should we sacrifice our people for the Kurd's.

 

[Etain]

No, they don't, which is why they don't have land there.I think you are severely misinformed about Ba'athism.

Them having land somewhere means nothing really. The fact he even considered it says a lot.

ikr lol, Baathism is Arabism and Socialism...

Socialism isn't good for any country let alone with nationalism...

Socialism is good for a poor country like Ethiopia where much of the population is impoverished. Else many of them would starve.

 

[ins001]

Them having land somewhere means nothing really. The fact he even considered it says a lot.

You seem to have some kind of inner-animosity towards Israel. With so much hostility there is no point in trying to explain anything to you regarding Israel since you already have your own preconceived notion.

Socialism is good for a poor country like Ethiopia where much of the population is impoverished. Else many of them would starve.

Highly controversial

 

[Bronit Omta]

I find that by studying the roots of Zionism we can learn a lot about the right to self determination. We have a lot in common with the Jews, a lot of us were in a diaspora and thus away from our homeland. We are both persecuted minorities in the Middle East and finally we both didn't have our own country. Albeit there are differences between the two cases, I believe we should take some notes that are relatable and use it to our own benefit i.e. the works of Theoder Herzl.

This extract sounds very familiar to our own cause and work such as this should be examined and used when making decisions based on the right to self determination. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/herzlex.html

May I also point out that the Jews chose Palestine because it was in their prophecies as the "Holy Land". Think of Nineveh as our "Holy or Promised Land".

It's great to have many different political ideologies within our community but we need a party or two with a solid base of support to push us further. Division must be conquered and we must re unite. We must also work towards helping countries such as America that we live in just like the Jews did (Balfour agreement).

Most of all, retain our culture, don't fall for the "Kurdification or Arabisation" and act wisely rather than emotionally.

 

[Etain]

I cannot comprehend why any of you would want to compare yourselves to Jews.

 

[mrzurnaci]

I cannot comprehend why any of you would want to compare yourselves to Jews.

Because we actually have so much in common with them... Here's a list...

1. We use a similar alphabet (Jews use a slightly modified Aramaic alphabet while Assyrians use a heavily modified form of the Aramaic alphabet)
2. before 1948, they were Stateless like us.
3. they are persecuted like we are.
4. We're both a biblical people...
5. we pretty much have a similar history together
6. stemming off #3, we're both persecuted heavily by Islam.
7. our language is similar to an extent since we both used Aramaic.
8. both of our religions are similar to an extent since Christianity did branch off Judaism.
9. they're a minority in the region like we are.

The only disimilarity is that the majority of Jews descend from Germans/Europeans whilst Assyrians descend from Middle Easterners

Thing is though, I know why you'd rather we not work or compare ourselves to Jews.

Any kind of support or condoning of Jews or Israel will politically hurt us when trying to work with Arabs or others who dislike Jews.

 

[Etain]

Because we actually have so much in common with them... Here's a list...

1. We use a similar alphabet (Jews use a slightly modified Aramaic alphabet while Assyrians use a heavily modified form of the Aramaic alphabet)
2. before 1948, they were Stateless like us.
3. they are persecuted like we are.
4. We're both a biblical people...
5. we pretty much have a similar history together
6. stemming off #3, we're both persecuted heavily by Islam.
7. our language is similar to an extent since we both used Aramaic.
8. both of our religions are similar to an extent since Christianity did branch off Judaism.
9. they're a minority in the region like we are.

The only disimilarity is that the majority of Jews descend from Germans/Europeans whilst Assyrians descend from Middle Easterners

Thing is though, I know why you'd rather we not work or compare ourselves to Jews.

Any kind of support or condoning of Jews or Israel will politically hurt us when trying to work with Arabs or others who dislike Jews.

Most of those could be applied to Arabs too.
Anyways, supporting Israel will be a bad PR move for Assyrians. Your best bet is to ally with Christian Arabs.

 

[Cascade]

Most of those could be applied to Arabs too.
Anyways, supporting Israel will be a bad PR move for Assyrians. Your best bet is to ally with Christian Arabs.

That's so wrong -- Our alphabet is still more like the Hebrew one, Arabs aren't as persecuted as the Jews and Assyrians are, Arabs are not that biblical (try Quranic), Arabs and Assyrians don't share a similar history like they do with the Jews, Arabs aren't persecuted by Muslims (most are Muslim), our language is more similar to Hebrew than Arabic, and we are a minority like the Jews (Arabs are far from a minority).

Btw, Christian Arabs seem to find common grounds with Muslim Arabs most of the time. They're the most Islamicized Christians out there.

Why are you subjective when it comes to Jews? I really don't get this.

 

[Bronit Omta]

Most of those could be applied to Arabs too.
Anyways, supporting Israel will be a bad PR move for Assyrians. Your best bet is to ally with Christian Arabs.

Christian Arabs have no power whatsoever. They are Arabs and Arabs aren't good to ally with. Jewish people are wise and intelligent. Arabs are backwards people.