Who is "Assyrian"?

[Etain]

Since the Assyrian empire included Iraq and Syria and the Arabic spoken in those countries is heavily influenced by Aramaic,does this mean Iraqis and Syrians are descended from Assyrians too?

 

[Cascade]

Iraqi Arabs may have Mesopotamian ancestry (Mandean), but most are still descended from the Gulf Arabs (i.e. Saudi Arabia) due to the Islamisation.

Syrians also have Arab descent (due to Muhammad's conquest), but they're mostly a mix of Phoenician, Levantine and Aramean (like Lebanese people). Hence why they're usually lighter skinned than Iraqi Arabs.

 

[Etain]

Iraqi Arabs may have Mesopotamian ancestry (Mandean), but most are still descended from the Gulf Arabs (i.e. Saudi Arabia) due to the Islamisation.

Syrians also have Arab descent (due to Muhammad's conquest), but they're mostly a mix of Phoenician, Levantine and Aramean (like Lebanese people). Hence why they're usually lighter skinned than Iraqi Arabs.

I don't buy that.There's no archaeological evidence for a mass replacement like that.

 

[Cascade]

I don't buy that.There's no archaeological evidence for a mass replacement like that.

Look at Iraqis for instance and compare them to Assyrians. They are darker in comparison and have that "Arab look". How could you believe that they descended from us? It's obvious that they came from the south (Saudi Arabia, Mandean). We are still related to them, though.

If you don't believe in the "mass replacement", then how is Iraq, Jordan, Iran and Syria predominantly Muslim? Islam came from Saudi Arabia after all.

 

[Etain]

Look at Iraqis for instance and compare them to Assyrians. They are darker in comparison and have that "Arab look". How could you believe that they descended from us? It's obvious that they came from the south (Saudi Arabia, Mandean). We are still related to them, though.

If you don't believe in the "mass replacement", then how is Iraq, Jordan, Iran and Syria predominantly Muslim? Islam came from Saudi Arabia after all.

Because the Assyrians weren't dark skinned or anything.
And that makes no sense.For instance, Europeans converted to Christianity,but it doesn't mean we were killed off and replaced with another population.

 

[Etain]

Assyrians.Not too different from Iraqis.

 

[elevated]

Because the Assyrians weren't dark skinned or anything.
And that makes no sense.For instance, Europeans converted to Christianity,but it doesn't mean we were killed off and replaced with another population.

Europeans didn't undergo a process where their identities were lost with the spread of Christianity. With the Arab conquest of the region, all groups that converted to Islam, gained Arabian admixture and lost their original cultures, hence why everywhere from Egypt to Oman to Khuzestan, Iran are all "Arabs". Furthermore, all Muslim Arabs have Sub-Saharan African ancestry due the Arab Slave Trade. It ranges in each population, with Gulf Arabs, such as Kuwaitis and Iraqi Arabs from Basra incurring a substantial amount, which is seen throughout both populations.


Both of those pictures you posted are Assyrians, by the way. I don't know if your intention was to contrast Assyrians and Iraqi Arabs, but a simple google search of both groups will yield different results in appearance. The former will resemble Armenians, Lebanese/Syrians, and Turks to a larger extent and the latter, more toward Gulf Arabs. The Turko-Mongol invasion and destruction of Baghdad explains part of the depopulation of Mesopotamia and the migration of Bedouins afterward, explains the changes in population.

One more thing I'd like to correct you on, is that there are two major Arab dialects in Iraq. The primary one, Iraqi Arabic, is not really Aramaic influenced. However, Northern Mesopotamian Arabic does and a lot of these people are formerly Assyrians.


Iraqi Arabs:

Assyrians:

Dialects of Arabic:

Keep in mind, most of the territory under "Northern Mesopotamian" isn't even populated by Arabs, so it's an even smaller amount that speak in that dialect.

 

[Cascade]

Because the Assyrians weren't dark skinned or anything.
And that makes no sense.For instance, Europeans converted to Christianity,but it doesn't mean we were killed off and replaced with another population.

First, Europe is immensely populated. Converting wasn't done through rape (where interbreeding came into being), but through message of the ministry and even some violence. Islam acted as a violent, raping conquest when it came out from Saudi Arabia and into Iraq, Jordan and Syria. And there wasn't really a replacement. They just "meshed" or interbred with the natives there. An Arab Iraqi would be mostly ethnically Arab with a bit of Mandean and even our blood, but the latter is still insignificant.

So wait, you think that Iraqi Arabs are just Assyrians who converted to Islam and got Arabized? Am I correct? If so, how come we didn't convert though?

There are a number of Brits with Roman ancestry. Look at the darker ones for instance. So it's not like Europe is "pure breed" too.

Assyrians.Not too different from Iraqis.

That man looks very Iraqi Arab or Kuwaiti. So do the people behind him. I have never seen Assyrians who look like that, at least not that often. Now the bottom photo has stereotypical Assyrian looking people. You can see that they are lighter skinned, especially the boy. Again, the folks on the top photo just don't look Assyrian. At least, they look Mandean. If they're Assyrian, then they're the atypical ones that make us go "gee, don't they look Arab?".

 

[Assyrian Nationalist]

The first two pictures, the first are Southern Iraqis and Second are Northern iraqi Arabs.

 

[Cascade]

The first two pictures, the first are Southern Iraqis and Second are Northern iraqi Arabs.

You mean Etain or Elevated's post?

You can clearly see that the second photo (on Etain's post) has Assyrian women wearing traditional costumes...

 

[Assyrian Nationalist]

You mean Etain or Elevated's post?

You can clearly see that the second photo (on Etain's post) has Assyrian women wearing traditional costumes...

Elevated.

 

[Etain]

Europeans didn't undergo a process where their identities were lost with the spread of Christianity. With the Arab conquest of the region, all groups that converted to Islam, gained Arabian admixture and lost their original cultures, hence why everywhere from Egypt to Oman to Khuzestan, Iran are all "Arabs". Furthermore, all Muslim Arabs have Sub-Saharan African ancestry due the Arab Slave Trade. It ranges in each population, with Gulf Arabs, such as Kuwaitis and Iraqi Arabs from Basra incurring a substantial amount, which is seen throughout both populations.


Both of those pictures you posted are Assyrians, by the way. I don't know if your intention was to contrast Assyrians and Iraqi Arabs, but a simple google search of both groups will yield different results in appearance. The former will resemble Armenians, Lebanese/Syrians, and Turks to a larger extent and the latter, more toward Gulf Arabs. The Turko-Mongol invasion and destruction of Baghdad explains part of the depopulation of Mesopotamia and the migration of Bedouins afterward, explains the changes in population.

One more thing I'd like to correct you on, is that there are two major Arab dialects in Iraq. The primary one, Iraqi Arabic, is not really Aramaic influenced. However, Northern Mesopotamian Arabic does and a lot of these people are formerly Assyrians.


Iraqi Arabs:

Assyrians:

Dialects of Arabic:

Keep in mind, most of the territory under "Northern Mesopotamian" isn't even populated by Arabs, so it's an even smaller amount that speak in that dialect.

Honestly,these people are look similar.
Being arabic speaking doesn't mean anything in terms of genetics or original ancestry.
In terms of genetics.

The closest genetic relationships of the Assyrians are with the native populations of Jordan and Iraq.

http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html

 

[Etain]

Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_Arabic

Aramaic was the lingua franca in Mesopotamia from the early 1st millennium BCE until the late 1st millennium CE, and as may be expected, Iraqi Arabic shows signs of an Aramaic substrate. The Gelet and the Judeo-Iraqi varieties have retained features of Babylonian Aramaic.

 

[mrzurnaci]

Assyrians are any people who speak Syriac or Syriac dialect that trace their ancestry to Northern Mesopotamia and/or regards themselves as Assyrian/Mesopotamian.

 

[elevated]

Honestly,these people are look similar.

Sorry, but we don't look very similar. That's why we can always tell ourselves apart from Iraqis. We look considerably closer to Levantine Arabs and Armenians.

Being arabic speaking doesn't mean anything in terms of genetics or original ancestry.
In terms of genetics.http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html

The dialects of Arabic roughly correspond with the old languages that were spoken in the region. Levantine Arabic has a Western Aramaic substratum, Egyptian Arabic, an Egyptian one, and Northern Mesopotamian Arabic having a Syriac one.

 

[Cascade]

Honestly,these people are look similar.
Being arabic speaking doesn't mean anything in terms of genetics or original ancestry.
In terms of genetics.http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html

Actually it does.

Being Arabic means that they have Arab descent. It's pretty much self-explanatory.

Arabs came from Saudi Arabia (and interbred with the natives in the upper Middle East). We came from Northern Iraq. The space between central Saudi and Northern Iraq is very large - It's like from Sicily (Southern Italy) to Denmark. Now do Sicilians and Danes look the same to you? They're both European, just the same way Arabs and us are Middle Eastern, but that doesn't mean we'd look the same.

Like what Elevated said, we would more resemble the Levants. Even Jews.

 

[mrzurnaci]

Actually it does.

Being Arabic means that they have Arab descent. It's pretty much self-explanatory.

Arabs came from Saudi Arabia (and interbred with the natives in the upper Middle East). We came from Northern Iraq. The space between central Saudi and Northern Iraq is very large - It's like from Sicily (Southern Italy) to Denmark. Now do Sicilians and Danes look the same to you? They're both European, just the same way Arabs and us are Middle Eastern, but that doesn't mean we'd look the same.

Like what Elevated said, we would more resemble the Levants. Even Jews.

No we didn't come from Northern Iraq, we're from Mesopotamia in general...

 

[Cascade]

No we didn't come from Northern Iraq, we're from Mesopotamia in general...

Our homeland centered around Northern Iraq. We "evolved" there. We then dispersed to the south (Ur) and the west as our empire expanded. The people native to the south would've looked like Gulf Arabs rather than Mediterranean. Most of us resemble the latter. If we had southern Mesopotamian roots (as you proclaim), then we would would have a lot dark olive to brown skinned Assyrians around.

 

[elevated]

Our homeland centered around Northern Iraq. We "evolved" there. We then dispersed to the south (Ur) and the west as our empire expanded. The people native to the south would've looked like Gulf Arabs rather than Mediterranean. Most of us resemble the latter. If we had southern Mesopotamian roots (as you proclaim), then we would would have a lot dark olive to brown skinned Assyrians around.

That's not completely correct. We come from Upper Mesopotamia, which straddles Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. Some of the oldest civilization markers are in the Turkish portion of Mesopotamia.

 

[Cascade]

That's not completely correct. We come from Upper Mesopotamia, which straddles Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. Some of the oldest civilization markers are in the Turkish portion of Mesopotamia.

Yes, I know that. Northern Iraq was just one the places we came from. Other regions include southeast Turkey, northeast Syria and northwestern Iran (Urmia).