Who do you prefer politicially?

[AlexSuryoyo]

Well, then.. according to you, I should not worry about your people, since you are peaceful angles that came down from the sky to spread love and joy, oh... good old Christians, they just want to get a long... and the devilish Muslims just wanted to kill them... I remember, yes.. we Muslims went on several Jihads to Europe... oh wait that was Christians, hmmm? but I thought christian = angel? do you expect me to believe that? or don't you see what you said? how can a minority control a majority? if you outnumbered us in ottoman Iraq, how could we still control your regions? and why are is there no record of rebilion in the autonomous Kurdish regions of the ottoman empire? surely a Christian majority in the soran region would rebel every now and then?

Turkey has not claimed we are a minority in the east, they know we are a majority, but their afraid of conducting a census that included Kurd, however ottoman documents state 'Muslim' 'Christian'

Ok then how do you explain that all villages and cities are assyrian originally if we were not the majority? Explain me, why all this cities where kurds live today are originally assyrian? I speak about mardin, midyat, nuseybin, qamishli, nohadra and I can continue if you want... All this cities are assyrian originally and kurds become the majority lately. Just take qamishli, assyrians were still the majority less than a century ago, so how do you explain that, how do you explain that all the christians, armenians and assyrians fled their own houses, villages and cities. At a point that we can't find more than 3000 assyrians in tur abdin where there were several thousands only 40 years ago. How do you explain that?

 

[newguy]

Ok then how do you explain that all villages and cities are assyrian originally if we were not the majority? Explain me, why all this cities where kurds live today are originally assyrian? I speak about mardin, midyat, nuseybin, qamishli, nohadra and I can continue if you want... All this cities are assyrian originally and kurds become the majority lately. Just take qamishli, assyrians were still the majority less than a century ago, so how do you explain that, how do you explain that all the christians, armenians and assyrians fled their own houses, villages and cities. At a point that we can't find more than 3000 assyrians in tur abdin where there were several thousands only 40 years ago. How do you explain that?

LOL? what the hell?

Assyrians claim to have been a majority, and Armenians claim to have been a majority, yet somehow Kurds had control over the region... haha! this is just BS, and just made up.

Like I said before, this earth was not created by Assyrians, and humans have been living for thousands of years, and the history of the earth does not start with Assyria.

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

LOL? what the hell?

Assyrians claim to have been a majority, and Armenians claim to have been a majority, yet somehow Kurds had control over the region... haha! this is just BS, and just made up.

Like I said before, this earth was not created by Assyrians, and humans have been living for thousands of years, and the history of the earth does not start with Assyria.

Lol you didn't answer the questions... And nobody claims that this earth was created by assyrians, you just try to avoid the subject because you know all this region became kurdish thanks to crimes against humanity...

 

[newguy]

Lol you didn't answer the questions... And nobody claims that this earth was created by assyrians, you just try to avoid the subject because you know all this region became kurdish thanks to crimes against humanity...

It's already answered above, read my answers above.

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

No it's not, could you quote your answer??

If you speak about your last posts, it's not an answer...

 

[newguy]

No it's not, could you quote your answer??

If you speak about your last posts, it's not an answer...

I told you, ottoman maps show Kurdish majority in some regions, and Armenian majority in others... in no area of present day Turkey were Assyrians a majority, and don't get me wrong I'm not denying massacres, I just don'g agree with the made up numbers.

 

[Rumtaya]

@new guy


What I just prooved, was that Kurdistan was never what it is nowadays. Besides that I am not denying you of having a state or land, but what I am saying is that Nineveh, Dohuk and Arbil are not Kurdistan. Even if you maintain to get the rest of Assyria within the KRG, it is something I will never accept. And dont worry, its not that I am against Kurds, I would never accept anykind of foreign occupation.

Now at the thing with "independent autonomous regions". Are you trying to say that Kurds were everywhere the majority and thus had their autonomus region? Why dont you consider the very fact that ISLAM which was THE Religion of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE (the last caliphat) would NEVER allow Christian Nations to have a say over any area or be given anykind of power? Do you think just because there were some kurdish autonomous region that the area was all kurdish? Assyrians everywhere expect for those few semi-independent tribes in Hakkari were under muslim authorities (aghas, pashas or amir). They were not allowed to have a say. Their own land they worked and live on was taken under the authority of a Muslim "major".

I told you, ottoman maps show Kurdish majority in some regions, and Armenian majority in others... in no area of present day Turkey were Assyrians a majority, and don't get me wrong I'm not denying massacres, I just don'g agree with the made up numbers.

Here look at this map its on the eastern parts of Turkey (ottman empire times). The writings is in Germany. However I am sure you will understand the legend that is provied on the lower right corner.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Armenian_population_map_1896.jpg

It shows the Van Province and some others. However if you look at the Map (Hakkari region). You will see that they have drawn lines through some areas...the normal lines mean that there were at least 25-50% Christians. And the double lined areas that there were 50% and more christians. You see how much those are? Its almost the complete south east and east part of todays Turkey. Now consider this map is from 1896. The Assyrians and Armenias have faced a lot of massacres before that date. To name one the Massacre against the Assyrian of Tyari in 1843 (killing at least 30 000 Assyrians, taking women and children into capativity).

Read: Similar events occurred in 1846. [24] In neither case did the Ottoman Government or its security forces intervene to prevent the massacres or punish the wrong-doers, indicating that they were happy with the outcome, and thus making the Khilafah accomplices to the massacres. In 1847, Muslim forces massacred 30,000 members of the Assyrian Christian community. A good example of State complicity by the Khilafah in massacres of Christians begun by individual Muslims occurred in Lebanon and Syria in 1860, and which were only finally ended by the intervention of French forces:

"In Asheetha, Zinger Beg with a force of 400 Kurds practiced the most barbarous cruelties upon the villagers of Tyari. The Assyrians bore his tyranny patiently for some time, but finally decided to put an end to it and decided to attack the garrison. They slew twenty of their numbers and besieged the remainder for the space of six days. On promising that they would immediately surrender and evacuate the fortress they were supplied with water by the Assyrians, when suddenly defying their besiegers a fresh conflict succeeded. In the midst of these renewed hostilities a company of 200 cavalry arrived from Badr Khan Beg, and turned the fortunes of the day. The Assyrians, taken by surprise, were completely routed, no quarter was given, and men, women, and children fell in one common massacre. The village was set on fire, and three bags of ears were cut off from the wounded, the dying, and the dead. And sent as trophy to Badr Khan Beg. All the chiefs of Tyari were killed in the massacre, besides thirty priests, and sixty deacons, Mar Shimoons?s brother Kasha Sadok, and his nephew Jesse, and many of his relatives. In the month of October 1846, a united force of Badr Khan Beg and Noorallah Beg entered the Tkhooma district, and committed ravages too horrible to be related. During the invasion 300 hundred women and as many children were brutally put to the sword in one indiscriminate slaughter; only two girls who were left for dead on the field escaped to relate the sad tale of this horrible tragedy.

The Kurds then attacked the men, who had taken up a most disadvantageous position in a valley, where they were soon surrounded by their enemies, and after fighting bravely for two hours gave up the contest. Numbers were killed in attempting to escape, and as many as one hundred prisoners, mostly women and children, were afterwards taken from the houses, which were then fired by the Kurds, as were the trees and other cultivation in the neighborhood. These unfortunate victims were then brought before Noorallah Beg and the lieutenant governor of Jezeerah, as they sat near one of the churches, and heard their doom pronounced by those blood-thirsty barbarians: Make an end of them?, said they. A few of the girls, remarkable for their beauty, were spared, the rest were immediately seized and put to death" (Nestorians and Their Rituals, pp. 370)

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-6.html


See, how one group became a "majority" and the other one a minority?

And again, Im not denying Kurds anyrights to a homeland or alike. But seriously consider how the areas became kurdish. Now you come here say no Assyrians should go according to Kurdish plans. That Assyrians should not ask for an own province and that Nineveh should also be kurdish, because it has a kurdish majority (which it does not), never considering that Assyrians as a Christian people where put off from any rights (i.e. second class...lower people...do what ever you want with them).

And then it really makes one mad seeing Kurds who come and say what Assyrians and Assyria no no it was Kurdistan, there always lived kurds...well the many hundred ancestors of Kurds. Now what is also fun is that you brough up the e-book about Kurds and that Assyrians in the mountains where also Kurds who were/are christians. And then you say but Kurds have X Ancestors. How can Assyrians be Kurds, whereas you and the official "story" on Kurds say that Kurds had X-ancestors?...any logic?

Just to potray that logic:

Kurds = a) medians, b)gutians, c) Corduene, d)Hurrians, e) Assyrians, f) Persians ---> Assyrians = Kurds


Therefore I can say to you, that if you want the support of Assyrians to support the KRG, you just have to stand towards the same for Assyrians. You have to say Yes, Assyrians should have also an Assyrian Regional Goverment. One more Region that would have its own goverment, educational system, security forces etc. combined all together in a bigger Federal Goverment. That way Assyrians would say, hey wow look Kurds really changed they acknowledge our equal rights and want us to have what they want, lets get together with them to strenght political and economical relationship. Because we both have former opression as a common point. We should stick to eachother and have Equality on the SAME LEVEL.

But no what I see is just: Nah Assyrians should just join the KRG and enjoy their rights as Kurdistani Citizen. What would be the difference between Iraq and the KRG? You REALLY think that Assyrians would be equal citizen? NO! Just the very fact that you want US to become Kurdistanis (Kurdistan = Land of Kurds) puts us on a lower level i.e. we are at the same point we was before...just now we are allowed to build more churches...so that the western world can see. Oh fantastic look at Kurds so democratic and freedom loving people, they let the "christians (we are Assyrians, our religion and faith is a private thing its not something people should call us for. for as just a person got a name, he should be called for it and not for what his opinion on life is... life is a taste of bitternis...should i be called now bitternesian?) build churches and they are allowed to teach their language...how wonderful...lets get hand in hand and sing "kombaya my lord kombaya".

btw. I might be livng in the comfortable west and what we are discussion here wont really effect whats hapening in Iraq, however forums are there to share opinions and I am able in the west to develope my own free and independent opinion. Not something that you have share, but that you should accept.

 

[newguy]

What I just prooved, was that Kurdistan was never what it is nowadays. Besides that I am not denying you of having a state or land, but what I am saying is that Nineveh, Dohuk and Arbil are not Kurdistan. Even if you maintain to get the rest of Assyria within the KRG, it is something I will never accept. And dont worry, its not that I am against Kurds, I would never accept anykind of foreign occupation.

It's not an occupation, for us to occupy something it would need to be a former 'country' which it was not, it was the ottoman empire, therefore we are not occupying anything. 

Now at the thing with "independent autonomous regions". Are you trying to say that Kurds were everywhere the majority and thus had their autonomus region? Why dont you consider the very fact that ISLAM which was THE Religion of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE (the last caliphat) would NEVER allow Christian Nations to have a say over any area or be given anykind of power? Do you think just because there were some kurdish autonomous region that the area was all kurdish? Assyrians everywhere expect for those few semi-independent tribes in Hakkari were under muslim authorities (aghas, pashas or amir). They were not allowed to have a say. Their own land they worked and live on was taken under the authority of a Muslim "major".

Kurds gave ottomans a hard time, and we were Muslim... so I do not see the logic in 'Christians' were not allowed autonomy, do you think we were? the ottomans could not control us, come to think of it no country has so far been able to fully control Kurds.

Here look at this map its on the eastern parts of Turkey (ottman empire times). The writings is in Germany. However I am sure you will understand the legend that is provied on the lower right corner.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Armenian_population_map_1896.jpg

I'm not denying Armenian majority in certain places, however the Assyrians (most commonly refereed to as chaldeans/nestorians in every book I've read) were not, they were always a small minority.

Read: Similar events occurred in 1846. [24] In neither case did the Ottoman Government or its security forces intervene to prevent the massacres or punish the wrong-doers, indicating that they were happy with the outcome, and thus making the Khilafah accomplices to the massacres. In 1847, Muslim forces massacred 30,000 members of the Assyrian Christian community. A good example of State complicity by the Khilafah in massacres of Christians begun by individual Muslims occurred in Lebanon and Syria in 1860, and which were only finally ended by the intervention of French forces:

Haha, I looked at this document and looked down at source 24 and this is what I get: http://aina.org/martyr.htm#1743 I mean come on, can the author be any less biased? hahah

"In Asheetha, Zinger Beg with a force of 400 Kurds practiced the most barbarous cruelties upon the villagers of Tyari. The Assyrians bore his tyranny patiently for some time, but finally decided to put an end to it and decided to attack the garrison. They slew twenty of their numbers and besieged the remainder for the space of six days. On promising that they would immediately surrender and evacuate the fortress they were supplied with water by the Assyrians, when suddenly defying their besiegers a fresh conflict succeeded. In the midst of these renewed hostilities a company of 200 cavalry arrived from Badr Khan Beg, and turned the fortunes of the day. The Assyrians, taken by surprise, were completely routed, no quarter was given, and men, women, and children fell in one common massacre. The village was set on fire, and three bags of ears were cut off from the wounded, the dying, and the dead. And sent as trophy to Badr Khan Beg. All the chiefs of Tyari were killed in the massacre, besides thirty priests, and sixty deacons, Mar Shimoons?s brother Kasha Sadok, and his nephew Jesse, and many of his relatives. In the month of October 1846, a united force of Badr Khan Beg and Noorallah Beg entered the Tkhooma district, and committed ravages too horrible to be related. During the invasion 300 hundred women and as many children were brutally put to the sword in one indiscriminate slaughter; only two girls who were left for dead on the field escaped to relate the sad tale of this horrible tragedy.

The Kurds then attacked the men, who had taken up a most disadvantageous position in a valley, where they were soon surrounded by their enemies, and after fighting bravely for two hours gave up the contest. Numbers were killed in attempting to escape, and as many as one hundred prisoners, mostly women and children, were afterwards taken from the houses, which were then fired by the Kurds, as were the trees and other cultivation in the neighborhood. These unfortunate victims were then brought before Noorallah Beg and the lieutenant governor of Jezeerah, as they sat near one of the churches, and heard their doom pronounced by those blood-thirsty barbarians: Make an end of them?, said they. A few of the girls, remarkable for their beauty, were spared, the rest were immediately seized and put to death" (Nestorians and Their Rituals, pp. 370)

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-6.html

I looked at the source here too, interesting enough: http://www.aina.org/martyr.html haha! what a joke of an author that guy is! damn!

See, how one group became a "majority" and the other one a minority?

No, I do not... Assyrians have always been a minority, if you were not a minority you'd be a significant factor in the history of the region in ottoman time, like the Armenians were, but the fact that neutral non Aina sources make little to no reference of Assyrians just proves my point.

And again, Im not denying Kurds anyrights to a homeland or alike. But seriously consider how the areas became kurdish. Now you come here say no Assyrians should go according to Kurdish plans. That Assyrians should not ask for an own province and that Nineveh should also be kurdish, because it has a kurdish majority (which it does not), never considering that Assyrians as a Christian people where put off from any rights (i.e. second class...lower people...do what ever you want with them).

Mate, don't use this 'christian second class' crap on me, Kurds have been on the same line as you, we however fought for our rights and have been fighting for a long time, I'm not asking you to be Kurdish, nor am I asking you to join the KRG, all I'm saying is if you want our help it's not going to be free.

And then it really makes one mad seeing Kurds who come and say what Assyrians and Assyria no no it was Kurdistan, there always lived kurds...well the many hundred ancestors of Kurds. Now what is also fun is that you brough up the e-book about Kurds and that Assyrians in the mountains where also Kurds who were/are christians. And then you say but Kurds have X Ancestors. How can Assyrians be Kurds, whereas you and the official "story" on Kurds say that Kurds had X-ancestors?...any logic?

I've been reading a lot of books recently and it seems like the devilish Brits tried to convert Kurds to Christianity because of the Christians that were living in Kurdistan and it's probable that the authors did not make a distinction between the two because of the similarities in clothes/culture.

Just to potray that logic:

Therefore I can say to you, that if you want the support of Assyrians to support the KRG, you just have to stand towards the same for Assyrians. You have to say Yes, Assyrians should have also an Assyrian Regional Goverment. One more Region that would have its own goverment, educational system, security forces etc. combined all together in a bigger Federal Goverment. That way Assyrians would say, hey wow look Kurds really changed they acknowledge our equal rights and want us to have what they want, lets get together with them to strenght political and economical relationship. Because we both have former opression as a common point. We should stick to eachother and have Equality on the SAME LEVEL.

Well why should we be the nice guy? why should we give up lands? this is politics and not a fairy story... and nothing is free in life, if you want something, you'll need to give something in return... just like we gave the US the keys to the peshmerga in 2003 to take for a ride... you know in the 2003 Attack, Kurds did most of the dying in the north while the Americans just helped with air-strikes, like I stated several times... you want our help? sure! but there is a price.

But no what I see is just: Nah Assyrians should just join the KRG and enjoy their rights as Kurdistani Citizen. What would be the difference between Iraq and the KRG? You REALLY think that Assyrians would be equal citizen? NO! Just the very fact that you want US to become Kurdistanis (Kurdistan = Land of Kurds) puts us on a lower level i.e. we are at the same point we was before...just now we are allowed to build more churches...so that the western world can see. Oh fantastic look at Kurds so democratic and freedom loving people, they let the "christians (we are Assyrians, our religion and faith is a private thing its not something people should call us for. for as just a person got a name, he should be called for it and not for what his opinion on life is... life is a taste of bitternis...should i be called now bitternesian?) build churches and they are allowed to teach their language...how wonderful...lets get hand in hand and sing "kombaya my lord kombaya".

In a region where minority rights are not respected, what we've given you is very good! i.e. Kurds fighting for the exact same rights in Turkey, the same rights you got for free.

btw. I might be livng in the comfortable west and what we are discussion here wont really effect whats hapening in Iraq, however forums are there to share opinions and I am able in the west to develope my own free and independent opinion. Not something that you have share, but that you should accept.

The people are the ones that vote for their leaders, therefore their opinion matters, and I don't have to accept your opinion, I just need to respect it.

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

I told you, ottoman maps show Kurdish majority in some regions, and Armenian majority in others... in no area of present day Turkey were Assyrians a majority, and don't get me wrong I'm not denying massacres, I just don'g agree with the made up numbers.

You still didn't answer the question: how kurds became majority in all this cities which are assyrian originally and why all the assyrians in tur abdin have fled, why there no assyrian anymore in hakkari?? And why there are more assyrians in diaspora than in our homeland (2/3 - 1/3)?

About your argument that assyrians were not a majority, just look at the map that rumtaya just posted http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Armenian_population_map_1896.jpg, we can see that christians in hakkari  were the majority but these christians were not armenians (only 10% procent or less), these christians were assyrians and assyrians were the majorityin hakkari  before the genocide because hakkari is assyrian originally.

Nowadays, there are no assyrians in hakkari (even not a single assyrian), why? Where all  these assyrians are? Why this region is now entire kurdish? And it's the same case for our entire homeland...

 

[Rumtaya]

Stop fooling yourself. Its an occupation! Areas were taken forcefully in the last decades. And dont worry, you wont win me to belive in the so called "Free and Democratic KRG".

If you would have looked up the sources, then you can see that its from a book. A book that is also put on aina.org

The Foreigners potrayed Assyrians as nestorians and chaldeans, because they stamped them only as "christian objects" just like what the Ottoman Authority did. However Assyrians NEVER considered themselves Nestorians, but Suraye (which means Assyrian).

My Friend it was not only Kurds who were hard to take down. The Assyrian tribes in Hakkari were also independent. No Authority over us.

You can keep this Kurds were always there for as long as you want. There is no proof for you guys in Assyria . Not a stone, not a church nor a fortress or scupltures.

Its just amazing to see what the bible has always foretold: they will make good to be bad, and bad to be good, a truth to be a lie and a lie to be the truth, sweet to be bitter and bitter to be sweet.

Armenians were to the most of the time untouched and they had a army untill the ottoman Turks cracked them down. However Assyrians have had that the last time in Adiabene. After that there was not much of an autonomous area or region.

 

[newguy]

Stop fooling yourself. Its an occupation! Areas were taken forcefully in the last decades. And dont worry, you wont win me to belive in the so called "Free and Democratic KRG".

If you would have looked up the sources, then you can see that its from a book. A book that is also put on aina.org

The Foreigners potrayed Assyrians as nestorians and chaldeans, because they stamped them only as "christian objects" just like what the Ottoman Authority did. However Assyrians NEVER considered themselves Nestorians, but Suraye (which means Assyrian).

My Friend it was not only Kurds who were hard to take down. The Assyrian tribes in Hakkari were also independent. No Authority over us.

You can keep this Kurds were always there for as long as you want. There is no proof for you guys in Assyria . Not a stone, not a church nor a fortress or scupltures.

Its just amazing to see what the bible has always foretold: they will make good to be bad, and bad to be good, a truth to be a lie and a lie to be the truth, sweet to be bitter and bitter to be sweet.

Armenians were to the most of the time untouched and they had a army untill the ottoman Turks cracked them down. However Assyrians have had that the last time in Adiabene. After that there was not much of an autonomous area or region.

Like I told you, the ancient Assyrians will be found in Kurds, Arabs and Assyrians of Iraq, and for you to claim that you are the same people Assyrians were thousands of years ago is laughable! and just because you labeled yourself as 'Assyrians' and we with the Arabs have been labled as something else doesn't make us any less indigenous!

The KRG is not democratic, but it's better than most states in the region and we are not here to please or impress Assyrians becuase frankly not you or Kurds enjoy these rights in Turkey or Iran, so.....

 

[Rumtaya]

Like I told you, the ancient Assyrians will be found in Kurds, Arabs and Assyrians of Iraq, and for you to claim that you are the same people Assyrians were thousands of years ago is laughable! and just because you labeled yourself as 'Assyrians' and we with the Arabs have been labled as something else doesn't make us any less indigenous!

The KRG is not democratic, but it's better than most states in the region and we are not here to please or impress Assyrians becuase frankly not you or Kurds enjoy these rights in Turkey or Iran, so.....

We dont label ourselves Assyrians. Thats what we are my friend. As I just told you we call ourselves in our language Suraye. It means ASSYRIAN. i.e. the people of Ashur---Ashuraye---Assuraye! You might read something by Prof. Dr. Simon Parpola Assyriologist from Finland.

Well, noone is holding those Arabs and Kurds from coming back to their real origin.

Its so funny, how you want to potray Assyrians as a bunch of Christians who were labbled by the West as Assyrians.

 

[newguy]

We dont label ourselves Assyrians. Thats what we are my friend. As I just told you we call ourselves in our language Suraye. It means ASSYRIAN. i.e. the people of Ashur---Ashuraye---Assuraye! You might read something by Prof. Dr. Simon Parpola Assyriologist from Finland.

Well, noone is holding those Arabs and Kurds from coming back to their real origin.

Its so funny, how you want to potray Assyrians as a bunch of Christians who were labbled by the West as Assyrians.

I don't care what you call yourself, doesn't make you it? now I'm not one to deny people their ethnicity or whatever because frankly I don't care much about history and I found it to be a pointless thing where people are caught up in the past and can't accept the reality of the present time.

The main point of this thread was to get the point across, you want our help it's not for free. 

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

I don't care what you call yourself, doesn't make you it? now I'm not one to deny people their ethnicity or whatever because frankly I don't care much about history and I found it to be a pointless thing where people are caught up in the past and can't accept the reality of the present time.

The main point of this thread was to get the point across, you want our help it's not for free.  

Yes when you don't like our answers, this part of the debate becomes less interesting, it's what you mean, you're just a joke and dont take the respondabilities of what your ancestors and government did and continue to do...

But seriously, what do you mean by it's not for free, what do you want from assyrians?

Ps: I still have no answer about the questions above...

 

[shekwanta]

you want our help it's not for free.  

how much?   1 million? 2 million?  :shades:                            

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

how much?   1 million? 2 million?  :shades:                            

I propose you a deal, I give you shekwanta, we get dohuk, deal???  

 

[shekwanta]

I propose you a deal, I give you shekwanta, we get dohuk, deal???  

  WHATTTTTT u wanna sell me for dohuk!!!!.....no no no!! arbil and dohuk and then i will go!  LOLLLLLLLL  :clap:  :wavetowel:  :mrgreen:  :blush2:



at least sell me for something good!  :mrgreen:  :blush2:

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

  WHATTTTTT u wanna sell me for dohuk!!!!.....no no no!! arbil and dohuk and then i will go!  LOLLLLLLLL  :clap:  :wavetowel:  :mrgreen:  :blush2:

Ah yeah my apologies hahaha, arbil too and all the peshmargas under shekwanta's authority :bigarmhug:

Shek, we will build you a statue in every village and city

 

[shekwanta]

Ah yeah my apologies hahaha, arbil too and all the peshmargas under shekwanta's authority :bigarmhug:

    yeeees! i wanna be something big! not sold for 1 county only!!!!!!  :blush2:  :mrgreen:

okay! so now!!!....do we have a deal guys!!!!  :shades:  :mrgreen:

 

[shekwanta]

Shek, we will build you a statue in every village and city

a statue of me!! right!!!???  :blush2:   ooooooh that would be great! i will look beautiful! LOLL   :mrgreen: :clap:

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

Yep a great statue at the gates of Nineveh but you'll never see it because you'll be in kurdistan (the 362nd wife of barzani, the first assyrian one)  :lol: :lol:

So sad, I'll send you a picture haha

 

[Rumtaya]

I don't care what you call yourself, doesn't make you it? now I'm not one to deny people their ethnicity or whatever because frankly I don't care much about history and I found it to be a pointless thing where people are caught up in the past and can't accept the reality of the present time.

The main point of this thread was to get the point across, you want our help it's not for free. 

Typicall statement to undermine and put aside what happend. The Past is VERY important. It tells you what happend and why some are nowadays a minority while others a majority that occupied lands and villages.

 

[Tambur]

My two cents on the topic, I would rather live with the Kurds than the Arabs.

In a civilized debate, statements are usually followed by evidence, however when one is conversing with an uncivilized person, statements are made followed by 'I'm right, your wrong, period' and usually there is a sense of anger in the post too.

The website 'Eupedia' got these results from tests that were carried out in around 2008, and there is proof of that, also most of the Kurds today are 'new' additions to the population, as travelers from the 19th century paint a whole different picture of the appearance of Kurds (Again I got sources)

You can label me with whatever name you want, doesn't mean it's true... oh wait, if an 'assyrian' sais something, it must be right.. I forgot...

I have examined that website recently and I'm sorry to break it to you, but their numbers are wack, they list this page as the sources:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#Sources

Yet their numbers differ from some of these sources, let's take the Kurds of Turkey for example, the only study on Kurds in Turkey I have seen is Nasidze (2005), and here are the frequencies he had:

Yet this is what Eupedia reports:

The Kurmanji_T is represented as Kurds from Turkey, the numbers simply do not match at all, but for the sake of argument let's assume that Eupedia has taken both of the Kurmanji_T and Zazaki_T as the Kurds of Turkey, the numbers are still very wrong, please explain to me how they came up with these numbers? Is there some sort of study on the Kurds of Turkey that I'm not aware of? Looking at their page of sources, I think not, it looks like these numbers are made up and this website is full of shit, in other words I agree with dok101, anyone going with that website to prove their case is elementary, I personally think they're less than that but I'm a harsher person.

I told you, ottoman maps show Kurdish majority in some regions, and Armenian majority in others... in no area of present day Turkey were Assyrians a majority, and don't get me wrong I'm not denying massacres, I just don'g agree with the made up numbers.

The Kurds and Armenians were a bigger minority yes, but to say there were no regions where the Assyrians were a majority is pretty stupid, there were three regions, the district of Hakkari was dominated by tribal Assyrians, the plains of Nineveh was also dominated by the Assyrian villages, and the area of Tur Abdin stretching all the way to Mardin was also majority Assyrians.

Like I told you, the ancient Assyrians will be found in Kurds, Arabs and Assyrians of Iraq, and for you to claim that you are the same people Assyrians were thousands of years ago is laughable! and just because you labeled yourself as 'Assyrians' and we with the Arabs have been labled as something else doesn't make us any less indigenous!

Who are YOUR ancestors again? Medes? Mitanni? Hurrian? Scythian? Guti? Kassite? Make up your mind, at least we still stick to the same name of the people we claim ancestry from, you guys don't even use the name of the people you claim ancestry from.

I think it's better to keep quiet about history since you don't know what you're talking about here, either way, whether we're the same ancient Assyrians or not is irrelevant, we're here today, deal with it.

 

[newguy]

I don't know about the Turkey results, however the Kurds from Iraq they got from:

Muslim Kurds

The Kurds are considered an ancient autochthonous population (Kinnane 1970; Pelletiere 1984) who may even be the descendants of the shepherds who first populated the highlands during the Neolithic period (Comas et al. 2000). Although Kurdistan came under the successive dominion of various conquerors, including the Armenians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottoman Turks, and Iraqis (Kinnane 1970), they may be the only western Asian group that remained relatively unmixed by the influx of invaders, because of their protected and inhospitable mountainous homeland (Pelletiere 1984). The Y chromosome variation of Muslim Kurds falls within the spectrum observed in other populations (Turks and Armenians) living in the same region. The three populations are closer to Jews and Arabs than to Europeans. This is in good agreement with data on classical markers (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). However, on the basis of mtDNA polymorphisms, Kurds were reported to be more closely related to Europeans than to Middle Easterners (Comas et al. 2000).

Read the rest on: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707613251#sc2.1.4

 

[Tambur]

I don't know about the Turkey results, however the Kurds from Iraq they got from:

Muslim Kurds

The Kurds are considered an ancient autochthonous population (Kinnane 1970; Pelletiere 1984) who may even be the descendants of the shepherds who first populated the highlands during the Neolithic period (Comas et al. 2000). Although Kurdistan came under the successive dominion of various conquerors, including the Armenians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottoman Turks, and Iraqis (Kinnane 1970), they may be the only western Asian group that remained relatively unmixed by the influx of invaders, because of their protected and inhospitable mountainous homeland (Pelletiere 1984). The Y chromosome variation of Muslim Kurds falls within the spectrum observed in other populations (Turks and Armenians) living in the same region. The three populations are closer to Jews and Arabs than to Europeans. This is in good agreement with data on classical markers (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). However, on the basis of mtDNA polymorphisms, Kurds were reported to be more closely related to Europeans than to Middle Easterners (Comas et al. 2000).

Read the rest on: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707613251#sc2.1.4

There's no haplogroup G in that paper, the 4% is supposed to be a T, not a G, thank you for proving my point about the people running the site, clearly they don't know a whole lot about genetics yet you're happy quoting their fake ass site :lol:

Do yourself a favor, if you wanna talk about this stuff next time, check your sources properly, and if you're gonna provide me any sources, I prefer the actual paper (Like the one you just posted), not some stupid site that does not know how to copy the source properly.