We Need New Singers
- Thread starter ACANA
- Start date
baklawa
New member
Well, we're not very supportive of our artists to begin with. We "nickel and dime" them to death and balk at how much they charge. We'll pay enormous amounts to bring foreign acts to our parties that we wouldn't our own. Their CDs don't exactly fly off the shelves. So it's no surprise that we have so few who want to enter into this profession.
Having said that, I think Ramsin Sheeno has been a great addition to the music scene. I really can't think of any other young performer :blink:
Having said that, I think Ramsin Sheeno has been a great addition to the music scene. I really can't think of any other young performer :blink:
Azziza Baklawa,
You think us nickel and diming our singers is the draw back to new singers. I know some will kill to sing for free. Where are they? I have gone to church and heard some not bad singers. Why don't they sing professionaly.
The problem is our culture is stuck with the top 5. No matter what, for weddings or parties the top 5 rule. I don't know how our music will survive without them.
This issue has no border. Look it is happening everywhere, North America, Australia, Europe, and even back home.
We have no new singers to take over and our music and follklore will suffer for this.
You think us nickel and diming our singers is the draw back to new singers. I know some will kill to sing for free. Where are they? I have gone to church and heard some not bad singers. Why don't they sing professionaly.
The problem is our culture is stuck with the top 5. No matter what, for weddings or parties the top 5 rule. I don't know how our music will survive without them.
This issue has no border. Look it is happening everywhere, North America, Australia, Europe, and even back home.
We have no new singers to take over and our music and follklore will suffer for this.
baklawa
New member
First, it's azizTA :blush2:
I agree that our music, specifically the folklore type, is definitely suffering. It's very hard to find singers who don't sing westernized Assyrian, or who "borrow" (to use the term nicely) from Turkish/Kurdish/Arabic/Persian influences.
I think finances play a big part -- if you're having a party and want to sell tickets you may not want to take a chance on an unknown. But I don't see why these clubs can't bring in some new singers who can perform when the "headliner" takes a break. Unless those big singers don't allow that?
I agree that our music, specifically the folklore type, is definitely suffering. It's very hard to find singers who don't sing westernized Assyrian, or who "borrow" (to use the term nicely) from Turkish/Kurdish/Arabic/Persian influences.
I think finances play a big part -- if you're having a party and want to sell tickets you may not want to take a chance on an unknown. But I don't see why these clubs can't bring in some new singers who can perform when the "headliner" takes a break. Unless those big singers don't allow that?
Sorry azzizta Baklawa;
I think the big reason is that we keep sticking with the fab 5, you are right is they bring people. I mean they are good but we need new blood. You see other cultures have new singers probably daily. I mean we won't have that but still can't we produce one every 6 months.
Some of our problems are:
- song writers do not give their poems to young singers
- young singers do not actually know how to sing in Assyrian (North America Only)
- As a nation we can not produce good singers
Finacnes are not the only problem. Look we had Assyrian Superstar recently and what happened to those people that won.
I think the big reason is that we keep sticking with the fab 5, you are right is they bring people. I mean they are good but we need new blood. You see other cultures have new singers probably daily. I mean we won't have that but still can't we produce one every 6 months.
Some of our problems are:
- song writers do not give their poems to young singers
- young singers do not actually know how to sing in Assyrian (North America Only)
- As a nation we can not produce good singers
Finacnes are not the only problem. Look we had Assyrian Superstar recently and what happened to those people that won.
Free_Assyria
New member
We need promoters also most of our nation now has migrated to the west hence the incentive to do Assyrian music outside the homeland is kind of lost.
We also need new genres I hate listening to the same type of music one day I will listen to opera the next day punk rock. Assyrian music is all the same genre.
We also need new genres I hate listening to the same type of music one day I will listen to opera the next day punk rock. Assyrian music is all the same genre.
GodismyJudge
Active member
Well in Europe we have some new singers but they mainly sing in Turoyo (West Assyrian dialect)
Josef ?zer is a good one and he is areally good, but he mainly sings Turkish or Kurdish songs.
Ninorta Aho will be a big star but she is young and she can sing also in other languages
Ilhan Samy is a good one for parties and weddings (he's an relative of mine) and he sings both dialects.
Gudo d'Bahro are three guys who can be good, haven't heard them live but heard some of their songs.
Gabi Masso is really good.
I don't want Assyrian singers to change the music. We must be proud of our music. I like the old skool Assyrian music and the danceble music. Addo Rhawi does bring some Rock in his music/songs but for parties he isn't very good. It is nice to listen. Gabi Masso is the one who mixes modern music with old skool Assyrian music and it works It is really good.
I think the problem is that we always compare those new and young singers with the old ones too early. Then the pressure will be high and they won't get a chance to achieve what our gi singers have achieved.
I don't worry much about it I think our top 5 will bring some new singers. For example the Turkish singer Ibrahim Tatlises has raised a new good Turkish singer Engin Nursani. He made Ceylan also very famous. Maybe our singers can do that too.
Josef ?zer is a good one and he is areally good, but he mainly sings Turkish or Kurdish songs.
Ninorta Aho will be a big star but she is young and she can sing also in other languages
Ilhan Samy is a good one for parties and weddings (he's an relative of mine) and he sings both dialects.
Gudo d'Bahro are three guys who can be good, haven't heard them live but heard some of their songs.
Gabi Masso is really good.
I don't want Assyrian singers to change the music. We must be proud of our music. I like the old skool Assyrian music and the danceble music. Addo Rhawi does bring some Rock in his music/songs but for parties he isn't very good. It is nice to listen. Gabi Masso is the one who mixes modern music with old skool Assyrian music and it works It is really good.
I think the problem is that we always compare those new and young singers with the old ones too early. Then the pressure will be high and they won't get a chance to achieve what our gi singers have achieved.
I don't worry much about it I think our top 5 will bring some new singers. For example the Turkish singer Ibrahim Tatlises has raised a new good Turkish singer Engin Nursani. He made Ceylan also very famous. Maybe our singers can do that too.
Ashuriena
New member
baklawa said:
You nailed it! We don't support each other. We throw tens of thousands on foreigners, yet when we bring our own singers, we tharthimakh at how much they charge and complain if they set foot off the stage because we try to squeeze everything out of them. It's like, dude...we don't even try to support our future generation in this way.
It's the finances that kill people's motivations to be a singer. Why be an Assyrian singer if Assyrians aren't even going to care about you enough to even touch your album? Why bother? Qamo sharsheeyet janookh for some who won't appreciate it? Why put in all that time and effort when you're already going to be needing a full-time side job to support yourself because singing just isn't cutting it for you? Why do you think Walter crossed over into the bilingual singing world? So he can make money off of nikhrayeh because he knows singing strictly for Assyrians isn't going to put food on the table. Look at Ashur...in Arizona, he used to work side jobs to support himself. I'm pretty sure he still does now and I'm pretty sure he did that when he was in Ceres too.
I know that some people would kill to sing for free, but at the end of the day when they're 30 and 40 with families to feed and all their wasted effort has gone into singing, will there be food on the table or a roof over their heads? The answer is no.
We also don't have new singers because as Assyrians...we're VERY divided. A predominant area of people from one territory will fail to support a singer that is a descendant from another territory, but much rather bring foreign singers that mostly relate to the area they come from. So, let's say, for example, an area predominantly consisting of Tyarayeh would fail to bring an Urmijnayah singer simply because they relate more to Tyarayeh singers...OR...an area predominantly consisting of Iranians would fail to bring a non-Iranian descendant Assyrian singer, but much rather a Persian singer because they feel stronger ties to that culture. (I just took these out of the air as examples...so don't think I'm attacking anyone...I love all Assyrians to death, but this is honestly the way I've observed it and this is another thing that takes away people's motivations). Why do it when you know your chances of getting shut down like that are super high?
See it seems the blame is always on the organizations or private parties. My point is our music is suffering because of lack of new blood. Why is our nation not producing good new singers? Music and being a singer should not be about money. Music is a gift and we seem to lack this gift.
This is what should happens in a complete cycle: New singers start their career, get better, get old and then they are replaced by new singers, and then the cycle begins again.
For us there is no cycle, our old singers (top 5) have maintained that position for over 30 years. How many new singers in 30 years have come up. Ok Ramsin Shino only. I can?t think of anyone else.
One encouraging sign is that our people are having more parties, which hopefully produce new singers.
As far as top singers tutoring or producing other singers, frankly I haven?t seen that at all. It is a bad situation for our music; because mainly our young people in North America are not speaking Assyrian, let along sing in that language.
As far as urmjnaye and Tyaraya singers, sorry I don?t agree with that. Music is music and good singers people will listen to and support no matter what, i.e. Aghassi, Chaharbackshi or Jermain Temraz were not only loved and supported by Iranians.
This is what should happens in a complete cycle: New singers start their career, get better, get old and then they are replaced by new singers, and then the cycle begins again.
For us there is no cycle, our old singers (top 5) have maintained that position for over 30 years. How many new singers in 30 years have come up. Ok Ramsin Shino only. I can?t think of anyone else.
One encouraging sign is that our people are having more parties, which hopefully produce new singers.
As far as top singers tutoring or producing other singers, frankly I haven?t seen that at all. It is a bad situation for our music; because mainly our young people in North America are not speaking Assyrian, let along sing in that language.
As far as urmjnaye and Tyaraya singers, sorry I don?t agree with that. Music is music and good singers people will listen to and support no matter what, i.e. Aghassi, Chaharbackshi or Jermain Temraz were not only loved and supported by Iranians.
ACANA said:
Ashur Sargis...Zowaa supporter, wears it proudly around his neck and he's not supported because of who he supports. Many people love Ashur, but just not enough. So yes, Assyrians do tend to support/not support who they want.
I personally don't blame the new generation for not wanting to come out and sing because most people are just jealous pricks when it comes down to it. Singers like Oleen who have AWESOME voices get talked bad about when they step on the stage. Or how about BullBull and how everyone constantly slams her...So you see the talent/effort are there, but the support isn't which is usually the case.
Sargon sings about ABSOLUTE non sense and gets paid 4000 to do so cause he can make you shake your bum with the help of the open bar and poor ashur doesn't even make a 1/4 of that so BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I think it's time to start supporting our people just a little bit more..
baklawa
New member
Nanette said:
How could you say that about an artist who sings a song about DAWEH? :mrgreen:
And ACANA, I do get your point -- there have been very few singers that have come out in the last generation. I think we have the talent, but not the atmosphere that supports it. Women singers are talked about still, and male singers cannot rely on a singing career to support a family.
GodismyJudge said:
It's good to know our west Assyrians are at least keeping up. I know they take their music very seriously -- I think Addo Rhawi is the exception that uses a lot of western influence; most of them are very strict about sticking with our sound and instruments. You mentioned comparing the new singers to the old, and I agree that can be problematic -- it's hard to replace some of those great old singers like Ninib Lahdo :2hearts:
Ashuriena
New member
ACANA said:
Are you kidding me? Jermain Tamraz got kicked out of the scene because she was A) Zowaa suporter, B) Urmijneta, and C) From Iran. Linda George came out of nowhere after Jermain and blew her out of the water because she wasn't an Urmijneta and she wasn't from Iran. Same with Sargon and Ashur. Sargon gets on stage and disrespects women with one of his songs and then goes out to sing for Saddam, yet when he comes back...he's still a "star" among the community...why? A) He's not an Urmijnayah, and B) He's not from Iran.
David Esha was terribly tortured by the Baathist Regime and they don't even care about him over here! Why? Because he's a Zowaa suporter.
Trust me, I've worked with a lot of these people and I've observed a lot of what has been going on through the states, especially from California and Chicago. It's disgusting.
Lakha, my dad and I had to put so much pressure for the LA people to bring Ogin and Julie Yousif. Why? Because neither of them are Urmijnayeh and neither of them are from Iran. It goes both ways. LA people (predominantly Iranian Urmijnayeh) and Chicago people (predominantly Iraqi Tyarayeh) use territorial racism to separate themselves.
And it's not really the young generation...it's the older generation that is helping cause this split. It's disgusting. I just find hope in this generation because we all seem to lack that territorial racism that our elders seem to hold so close and dear.
Ashurina and Nanette,
What does Zowaa have to do with the state of our music. Don't get me wrong I like Zowaa but the issue is our music lacks new blood and energy.
This the reason I am sick of the top 4 excpet Ashur that they only care about number one: themsleves. That is why we need to have new singers. Where are the new singers? Can we as a nation not create anyone to challange the top 5 in 30 years. It is ridicoulos.
What does Zowaa have to do with the state of our music. Don't get me wrong I like Zowaa but the issue is our music lacks new blood and energy.
This the reason I am sick of the top 4 excpet Ashur that they only care about number one: themsleves. That is why we need to have new singers. Where are the new singers? Can we as a nation not create anyone to challange the top 5 in 30 years. It is ridicoulos.
Ashuriena
New member
It's because a lot of the Assyrian leadership out there refuses to support singers that are supporters of Zowaa. It's sad, but it's true.
Anyways, getting back on to what you were saying on how we need new singers. We do, but with the lack of motivation and especially the fact that those shoes are just hard to fill, it's very difficult. It's not easy being an upcoming artist following the likes of Sargon, Linda, Ashur, Evin, and Janan. Sargon, Linda, and Janan are masters of making people dance. Their songs are contagious and just want to make you get out there and dance your heart out. Evin and Ashur have powerful, deep lyrics that twist your soul and make your emotions pour out. All these five are talented in their respective abilities and they do it very well. It's just really hard to see someone that has that much talent and that much ability.
And I agree, a lot of them do care about themselves. But I mean, a lot of people let that get to their heads and those that don't, understand the true nature of the art of music--it's not for the fame, but it's for the realism, the heart, the soul, and everything around that.
I don't exactly know if anyone can find new singers that have that in them.
Anyways, getting back on to what you were saying on how we need new singers. We do, but with the lack of motivation and especially the fact that those shoes are just hard to fill, it's very difficult. It's not easy being an upcoming artist following the likes of Sargon, Linda, Ashur, Evin, and Janan. Sargon, Linda, and Janan are masters of making people dance. Their songs are contagious and just want to make you get out there and dance your heart out. Evin and Ashur have powerful, deep lyrics that twist your soul and make your emotions pour out. All these five are talented in their respective abilities and they do it very well. It's just really hard to see someone that has that much talent and that much ability.
And I agree, a lot of them do care about themselves. But I mean, a lot of people let that get to their heads and those that don't, understand the true nature of the art of music--it's not for the fame, but it's for the realism, the heart, the soul, and everything around that.
I don't exactly know if anyone can find new singers that have that in them.
peachy
Active member
- All the new talent is trying to copy the older talent,so you cant help but compare and of course you would rather hear the original
-Assyrian music and beats all sound the same after a while, there is nothing different that grabs your attention and makes you want to listen to this new person.Here is Australia i swear all the singers must go to the same person that does the lyrics and the music. You can only recycle so much!
-Assyrian music and beats all sound the same after a while, there is nothing different that grabs your attention and makes you want to listen to this new person.Here is Australia i swear all the singers must go to the same person that does the lyrics and the music. You can only recycle so much!
We dont have new singers because we dont have new listeners.
Our youth dont like Assyrian music ,why I think because the quality is not their.How many Assyrian CDs you can take and compare to Iranians,Arabic or even Armenian as far as music and quality.
Name ONE CD guys ONE!!!!!!!!!!!! from all the singers you mentioned above.
Our youth dont like Assyrian music ,why I think because the quality is not their.How many Assyrian CDs you can take and compare to Iranians,Arabic or even Armenian as far as music and quality.
Name ONE CD guys ONE!!!!!!!!!!!! from all the singers you mentioned above.
Ashuriena
New member
Ashur Bet Sargis always releases quality albums. He always has. Lyric-wise and production-wise. I listen to a lot of Arabic, Persian, and Armenian music (especially, hahaha!) and to be honest, production-wise the quality is good, but lyrically, they're pretty lame.
I don't think it's because we don't like Assyrian music. I know that a lot of us LOVE Assyrian music. I, for one, grew up with it and have always loved it. I have so many on my ipod...it's not even funny. Hahahaha!
I don't think it's because we don't like Assyrian music. I know that a lot of us LOVE Assyrian music. I, for one, grew up with it and have always loved it. I have so many on my ipod...it's not even funny. Hahahaha!
petervocals
New member
www.esnips.com/web/pv209 This website of mine includes samples of me singing Assyrian songs. Specifically songs of these legends you have all mentioned.
Its too bad that our quality singers dont get appreciated as much as our 'laang-aat' singers. Music should be built on culture and art, not just on if it makes you dance or happy. Culture is always surround by emotions, happy and sad. We always tend to shun those reality songs of saddness, and focus on the happiness. That is the major reason why our quality singers dont enjoy the luxuries they deserve.
Its too bad that our quality singers dont get appreciated as much as our 'laang-aat' singers. Music should be built on culture and art, not just on if it makes you dance or happy. Culture is always surround by emotions, happy and sad. We always tend to shun those reality songs of saddness, and focus on the happiness. That is the major reason why our quality singers dont enjoy the luxuries they deserve.
Ashuriena
New member
How do you know they don't like Assyrian music? Just look at the people here...a lot of them do love Assyrian music.
As for Ashur, look at all his other albums...don't just base it off his last one. Plus, how do you expect them to produce such good quality music if we, as a nation, fail to support them sufficiently in financial terms time and time again? We pay them next to nothing to sing for us and yet we expect them to make top-notch albums that they can't afford. Yea, that makes sense.
And I may not be a professional musician, but don't underestimate my knowledge of music. I also do play a lot of instruments (bass guitar, flute, piano, organ) very well and even though that doesn't make me a professional musician, it does help me understand it better.
As for Ashur, look at all his other albums...don't just base it off his last one. Plus, how do you expect them to produce such good quality music if we, as a nation, fail to support them sufficiently in financial terms time and time again? We pay them next to nothing to sing for us and yet we expect them to make top-notch albums that they can't afford. Yea, that makes sense.
And I may not be a professional musician, but don't underestimate my knowledge of music. I also do play a lot of instruments (bass guitar, flute, piano, organ) very well and even though that doesn't make me a professional musician, it does help me understand it better.
Free_Assyria
New member
mishtutho said:
Spot on.
If I do a survey I promise you 1 out of 10 Assyrian youths actually listens to Assyrian music.
And Ashurina I know you went off topic/venting but easy on the Assyrians from Iran we are not arrogant monsters.
Assyriska
Ashuriena
New member
Assyriska, oh no...hahaha, don't get me wrong! I have nothing against Assyrians from Iran. My grandparents are from Iran. Hahaha, I said it goes both ways and I showed how it does. We're ALL (regardless of where we come from--Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc.) guilty of territorial racism. Living in LA where there are a lot of Assyrians from Iran, I know how wonderful the people are firsthand. BUT, I am saying, that a lot of the leaderships within each of our tribes has a tendency to sway towards singers from their region and I showed how that works. I only used the LA examples the most because I grew up within the LA community and I know the ins-and-outs of how everything has worked.
I don't know if that's really venting, but I truly feel that that is why a lot of new singers have no motivation to become singers...that was the question asked, was it not? How we need new singers and why we don't have any to challenge the "top 5?"
I don't know if that's really venting, but I truly feel that that is why a lot of new singers have no motivation to become singers...that was the question asked, was it not? How we need new singers and why we don't have any to challenge the "top 5?"
What it boils down from what I gather is that the top 5 have hypnotized us and we cannot live without them. We compare all new comers to them. They are the only top music produces we will ever have. They will get to 90 years old and they will still be on top.
Music combined with good voice and good lyrics is life. Is the problem the one keyboard issue? The one keyboard band drives me nuts. Once I went to a party and the band (one man Keyboard) halfway through the song went and got a sip from his beer, believe me he was away for about 5 minutes. The music was still playing and the people were going nuts dancing. What happened to our music?
If I can summarize important points for all new and upcoming singers:
1. Have a sound of your own (do not imitate the top singers & Do not recycle sound and songs).
2. Have a sound that grabs attention
3. Have lyrics that are different, new or catchy
4. Have a new look
5. Don?t get in music for the money.
6. Build a niche for yourself and build on it.
7. Stick to your principles and do not flip flop
8. Set a timetable/plan for the progress and stick to it
Music combined with good voice and good lyrics is life. Is the problem the one keyboard issue? The one keyboard band drives me nuts. Once I went to a party and the band (one man Keyboard) halfway through the song went and got a sip from his beer, believe me he was away for about 5 minutes. The music was still playing and the people were going nuts dancing. What happened to our music?
If I can summarize important points for all new and upcoming singers:
1. Have a sound of your own (do not imitate the top singers & Do not recycle sound and songs).
2. Have a sound that grabs attention
3. Have lyrics that are different, new or catchy
4. Have a new look
5. Don?t get in music for the money.
6. Build a niche for yourself and build on it.
7. Stick to your principles and do not flip flop
8. Set a timetable/plan for the progress and stick to it