MrCharming
New member
I believe it stems from the parents and the people you are surround yourself with. Your a product of your surroundings regardless of your financial status.
Good topic.
Good topic.
Uneducated Assyrians??
- Thread starter babylonx
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KeKwAnTa_MaRiAn
New member
assyrianlovely said:
laws are everywhere and i am not reffering to laws and rules right now...
as MrCharming says, its the parents as well as the people you are around...
Assyrians that don't have education could be because they had to work to help thier families back home and here...
and for the rest that had every opertunity to go to school but didn't take it, well that is simply because they have enough freedom to say hell with school, fun is more important! THAT sort of a freedom i am talking about.
MalekthaA2RETA
New member
Well, some take more time than others, perhaps when they go from one dead end job to another and see they can't get ahead they'll go back, you can only hope for that or use their time to build some type of business.
Interesting topic! I think there are 2 reasons why more Assyrians in the Middle East (be it Iraq, Syria, etc) are educated than in the West.
1) Cultural and ethnic reasons: our parents stressed the fact that we Assyrians have been suppressed for centuries in Iraq. The only way we can excel and distinguish ourselves is through education. Education is a powerful weapon without which we would be reduced to nothing in the Middle East.
2) The ease of which you can establish yourself financially in the Western world. Ask yourselves this question: how many families in Iraq had more than 1 car? Here, we can afford to purchase a car by working for minimum wages. You are capable of building up that bank account quickly with labour work. Many people opt for the quick money rather than the education and the potential for a semi-good income that "an office" job would yield.
1) Cultural and ethnic reasons: our parents stressed the fact that we Assyrians have been suppressed for centuries in Iraq. The only way we can excel and distinguish ourselves is through education. Education is a powerful weapon without which we would be reduced to nothing in the Middle East.
2) The ease of which you can establish yourself financially in the Western world. Ask yourselves this question: how many families in Iraq had more than 1 car? Here, we can afford to purchase a car by working for minimum wages. You are capable of building up that bank account quickly with labour work. Many people opt for the quick money rather than the education and the potential for a semi-good income that "an office" job would yield.
Ludikristen
New member
I can't comment on any Assyrians except the ones in my own city, and what I see there is appalling. I work at the (only) university and there are hardly any Assyrians here - I could count them on my hands.
I also tutor a couple of young Assyrians kids in the weekends, and from doing that I reckon it all starts in the home. Parents can do just little things that educate thier kids, like getting children to count out the cutlery for dinner, counting out money before you go into a shop to buy something, reading a recipe with you and helping measure stuff out, finding all the 's' words on street signs..... I could go on. You don't have to be a trained teacher to do little things like that with kids, you just need some initiative and motivation. Actually, I've seen how some of the parents are here with their little pre-school kids - they don't let them have toys cos they make a mess, and they don't interact with the babies as they're playing. Consequently the kids don't learn things like cause and effect relationships (like, if I put one more block on this tower, it's gonna fall down) - that's what playing is - kids figuring out spatial relationships and patterns (step by step this leads to algebra later on) or social relationships and classification systems.
So, what I'm seeing here is that when Assyrian 5 year olds start primary (elementary) school, they're already behind, and then cos parents don't do education at home they fall even further behind, and then the kids think they're dumb and just give up.
Is this what's happening in other palces too?
I also tutor a couple of young Assyrians kids in the weekends, and from doing that I reckon it all starts in the home. Parents can do just little things that educate thier kids, like getting children to count out the cutlery for dinner, counting out money before you go into a shop to buy something, reading a recipe with you and helping measure stuff out, finding all the 's' words on street signs..... I could go on. You don't have to be a trained teacher to do little things like that with kids, you just need some initiative and motivation. Actually, I've seen how some of the parents are here with their little pre-school kids - they don't let them have toys cos they make a mess, and they don't interact with the babies as they're playing. Consequently the kids don't learn things like cause and effect relationships (like, if I put one more block on this tower, it's gonna fall down) - that's what playing is - kids figuring out spatial relationships and patterns (step by step this leads to algebra later on) or social relationships and classification systems.
So, what I'm seeing here is that when Assyrian 5 year olds start primary (elementary) school, they're already behind, and then cos parents don't do education at home they fall even further behind, and then the kids think they're dumb and just give up.
Is this what's happening in other palces too?
Crocodile Bani
Well-known member
You are 100% spot on. I have seen it in Australia too. I knew an Assyrian who didn't even know that the fish that you eat came out of the sea and not out of the supermarket. he was 14 when he realised that all meat comes from animals.
Crocodile Bani
Well-known member
I told him that beef comes from killing cows and that milk comes out of a cows boobs and he started laughing at me. And I do believe it all stems from what Ludikristen is saying about Assyrian parents.
My mother used to read books to me when I was a child and other Assyrian kids found it odd. When I was old enough to read, my father used to make me read to him. Again, it was only Assyrians who found this odd. When my father brought home the newspaper, I was always interested in reading it (though the sports section is the main part that fascinated me). How many Assyrian fathers come home with a newspaper?
I think way too many Assyrians are being brought up in a cocoon and it restricts them. At 6pm, the TV used to be tuned into the news. The 1983 federal election between Malcolm Fraser and Bob Hawke was the ealiest election that I remember. How many Assyrians my age at the time knew who Malcolm Fraser and Bob Hawke were? Trust me, nobody cared. They were brought up to believe that they are the greatest because the are Assyrian. Unfortunately, many grow up believing that being Assyrian gives them some right to be lazy because being Assyrian solves all their problems.
My mother used to read books to me when I was a child and other Assyrian kids found it odd. When I was old enough to read, my father used to make me read to him. Again, it was only Assyrians who found this odd. When my father brought home the newspaper, I was always interested in reading it (though the sports section is the main part that fascinated me). How many Assyrian fathers come home with a newspaper?
I think way too many Assyrians are being brought up in a cocoon and it restricts them. At 6pm, the TV used to be tuned into the news. The 1983 federal election between Malcolm Fraser and Bob Hawke was the ealiest election that I remember. How many Assyrians my age at the time knew who Malcolm Fraser and Bob Hawke were? Trust me, nobody cared. They were brought up to believe that they are the greatest because the are Assyrian. Unfortunately, many grow up believing that being Assyrian gives them some right to be lazy because being Assyrian solves all their problems.
chaldean86
New member
babylonx... I think it's Iraqis here are less educated due to the lack of motivation and more importantly, lack of PRESSURE!. Schools and Parents were very, very strict in Iraq. Teachers were actually allowed to physically hit students if they disobeyed them or did not score well on tests/exams/etc. Moreover, the parents were pressuring their kids to a degree that they have no choice but to study..Plus, it was competition...most of a students peers were smart, so in order for the student to 'fit in' the group, they would read up/study just to intellectually blend in. In a nutshell, it was the pressures os society that were placed upon the students to perform well in school because it was EXPECTED of them. The majority of students studying in Canada 'go with the flow', where they follow their friends who are going nowhere in life concerning education, resulting in factory jobs, etc...
Ludikristen
New member
Related to what Moja Moja was saying, I have had the same experience of being laughed at by Assyrians for educational things. I was at a friend's house with about 20 other adults. There were some toddlers and they were annoying everyone so I started playing with them on the floor to keep them occupied, but people started laughing at me saying,"Kristen! What are you doing? You're too old to play games!" as if I was playing with the kids for my own fun!
And related to what BabylonX just said, I have grave concerns about the education in Iraq, from what people ahve told me about it. Yes, the students were obedient, and yes they may have done their homework and could recite all the capital cities of the world off by heart etc but that's not all education is. People have told me of being terrified of getting hit at school - how can kids learn properly in such an environment? I have a few friends who slipped through the cracks under such treatment and never went back to school. In the case of rote learning, how useful is that to the real world? In general western education has many flaws, but I hope that it helps kids to analyse/problem solve/think outside the square, which are higher mental processes than memorisation and repetition. However, I haven't experienced Iraqi education first hand, and I don't know anything about the Canadian educational system so can't comment on that.
BabylonX, I think what you're saying about expectation is right - I've read research that show that teachers and parents who expect students to perform poorly usually get those results from the students. I think what might be happening in some areas of the western world is that 'ghetto' mentality, where certain areas have lower socio-economic status, and therefore the students are expected to perform worse by teachers. Unfortunately, many Assryians in my country (not sure about other countries) come to live in these poor areas as refugees, and thus the cycle of poverty/low education starts.
And related to what BabylonX just said, I have grave concerns about the education in Iraq, from what people ahve told me about it. Yes, the students were obedient, and yes they may have done their homework and could recite all the capital cities of the world off by heart etc but that's not all education is. People have told me of being terrified of getting hit at school - how can kids learn properly in such an environment? I have a few friends who slipped through the cracks under such treatment and never went back to school. In the case of rote learning, how useful is that to the real world? In general western education has many flaws, but I hope that it helps kids to analyse/problem solve/think outside the square, which are higher mental processes than memorisation and repetition. However, I haven't experienced Iraqi education first hand, and I don't know anything about the Canadian educational system so can't comment on that.
BabylonX, I think what you're saying about expectation is right - I've read research that show that teachers and parents who expect students to perform poorly usually get those results from the students. I think what might be happening in some areas of the western world is that 'ghetto' mentality, where certain areas have lower socio-economic status, and therefore the students are expected to perform worse by teachers. Unfortunately, many Assryians in my country (not sure about other countries) come to live in these poor areas as refugees, and thus the cycle of poverty/low education starts.
steelcity_guy19
New member
LaDyMiDeAsT said:KeKwAnTa_MaRiAn said:i guess to much freedom is the cause of drop out...
even those that drop out are still smart, to bad they make the wrong choices in thier life and one of the wrong choice is chosing fun at a young age rather than education!
sad, so sad
I swear, the ones that drop out are mostly smart..... the ppl i know who dropped out are incredibily smart, its ridiculousss........ i guess its lazyness, they prefer fun and money!! lazy bums :ban: ... :bangin:
if they were smart, they'd be smart enough to stay in school. Lazyness is an excuse they use, because everyone is lazy deep down, but were smart enough to overcome that lazyness, and those that cannot do so, should not be labelled smart.
steelcity_guy19 said:LaDyMiDeAsT said:KeKwAnTa_MaRiAn said:i guess to much freedom is the cause of drop out...
even those that drop out are still smart, to bad they make the wrong choices in thier life and one of the wrong choice is chosing fun at a young age rather than education!
sad, so sad
I swear, the ones that drop out are mostly smart..... the ppl i know who dropped out are incredibily smart, its ridiculousss........ i guess its lazyness, they prefer fun and money!! lazy bums :ban: ... :bangin:
if they were smart, they'd be smart enough to stay in school. Lazyness is an excuse they use, because everyone is lazy deep down, but were smart enough to overcome that lazyness, and those that cannot do so, should not be labelled smart.
Or just a lack of common sense :bangin: