tribes?
- Thread starter mrzurnaci
- Start date
Don't know about today's figures, but late 19th century there was approximately 40,000 to 50,000 Assyrian Urmians.
I'm not too sure about modern tribe figures. However, I would say one third of the ACOE adherents (approx. 450,000) are Tyaraye, it's only that they usually identify with their village name instead of their tribe (myself included). Asheeta was the largest town of Tiyari and was located in Lower Tiyari with a population of eight to ten thousand inhabitants, which was very large in Assyrian standards at that time.ASHOOR said:
Freydun, I am from Barwar myself, but my family is thought to have originated from Tkhuma.
And you are right, most people who left the four original regions of Tkhuma, Baz, Tyareh, Jelu, ended up in other villages, and the majority of them today are originally from Tyareh.
Ashoor
And you are right, most people who left the four original regions of Tkhuma, Baz, Tyareh, Jelu, ended up in other villages, and the majority of them today are originally from Tyareh.
Ashoor
Tambur said:
I think Nochiya/Bet Shamizdin is considered to be a tribe actually. However, there was no ordinary Malik there; the ruling chief(s) was ACOE patriarch or clergymen since it was known as millet d'matran. But I'm not too sure about this, what do you think, Tambur?
Freydun said:
Assyrians of Shamizdin (Nochiyayeh) along with other non-tribal Assyrians such as Gawarnayeh, Barwarnayeh, Urmijnayeh, so on are what you call "Ra'yat" groups, this designation was used by the Persians and Ottomans to define non-tribal groups, the word itself comes from Arabic and it means "Shepherd" (In Assyrian it's Ra'ya), the tribal groups were called "Ashirat" (Which is also an Arabic word that means clan or tribe), so it's been written in history books that the only Assyrian ashirat (Tribal) groups were Tiyari, Jeelu, Baz, and Tkhuma, the rest were all ra'yats.
The Assyrian tribes were independent, the other non-tribal Assyrian groups were usually subjects to other tribal groups (Kurdish tribes), the Assyrians of Shamizdin in particular were under the Nehri tribe which was a Kurdish tribe located in the eastern part of Hakkari, it was the same thing with other non-Tribal Assyrians, Barwar Assyrians for example were subjects to the Kurdish Barwari tribe, so on.
Non here who got any ideas on the tribes origins? Either no one has an explanation for the tribes name or? IF so please let me know.
They were independ thus they carried weapons and were trianed in fighting, probably skills and advantage that helped them to surive in bigger numbers. Although the tribe was already before the genocide the biggest. So if you still have had assyrians killed in a equal value you would still find tyaraye to be the most in numbers.
mrzurnaci said:
They were independ thus they carried weapons and were trianed in fighting, probably skills and advantage that helped them to surive in bigger numbers. Although the tribe was already before the genocide the biggest. So if you still have had assyrians killed in a equal value you would still find tyaraye to be the most in numbers.
Rumtaya said:
The original Assyrian lifestyle was based on houses, which is why you hear the "Bet" title such as Bet-Sargis, Bet-Shimun (House of Sargis, House of Shimun, so on), to this date this is still in use when referring to an Assyrian family such as "Be Sargis" for example, and this is used in all Assyrian groups.
The tribal lifestyle on the other hand was a Kurdish influence on some Assyrian families in the Hakkari region, one might ask, how come only some Assyrians developed this lifestyle while the majority never lived in such fashion? Because the Assyrian families that eventually developed into tribes lived in a region that was not very desirable to live in, this area was full of mountains and not very useful when it came to farming, this was a reason why the Kurds never really bothered them much and this allowed them to get strong and independent, and seeing how their tribal Kurdish neighbors lived, they adopted a similar lifestyle.
The majority of Assyrians however chose not to deal with these mountains and decided to live on fruitful lands, of course they had to pay the price by being targeted by Kurdish tribes, but if it meant they were able to farm and live, they sucked it up, this was actually the case with most Assyrians (Syriacs and Chaldeans included), some of course lived near big cities where tribal influence did not effect them much (Assyrians of Urmia and Mousel for example).
As far the tribal origins, these were likely just Assyrian families that were related to one another and due to the freedom they had, they were able to grow strong and form some sort of tribal identity based on the Kurdish influence, I can't speak for all names, but Jeelu comes from the name of the mountains in west Hakkari which are called Cilo-Sat.
According to Gabriele Yonan's "Ein vergessener Holocaust", translated "a forgotten holocaust",
the statistic for hakkari in 1915 looks thusly:
Tiari 50000 51 villages, 29 churches
Jilu 25000 16 villages, 12 churches
Tchuma 25000 5 villages, 5 churches
Baz 8000 5 villages, 5 churches
+ the other areas
--> all assyrians of Hakkari: about 160000, about 200 villages, 139 churches
So Tiari Tribe was in time of Hakkari the biggest one, logical too that bigest milat of assyrians of hakkari origin today are also tyarayeh.
the statistic for hakkari in 1915 looks thusly:
Tiari 50000 51 villages, 29 churches
Jilu 25000 16 villages, 12 churches
Tchuma 25000 5 villages, 5 churches
Baz 8000 5 villages, 5 churches
+ the other areas
--> all assyrians of Hakkari: about 160000, about 200 villages, 139 churches
So Tiari Tribe was in time of Hakkari the biggest one, logical too that bigest milat of assyrians of hakkari origin today are also tyarayeh.
Free_Assyria
New member
You?re all slaves, slaves to the ottoman Turks.
No one from Urmi calls themself a Urmichnaya.
No one from Urmi calls themself a Urmichnaya.
baklawa
New member
Free_Assyria said:
Preach it brother! :yourock:
Yet another divisive tactic used to separate rather than unify. Who the hell cares what tribe your great-great-grandparent originated from? My son came home from school one day asking what tribe we belonged to because some kid at school was giving him a hard time, claiming he wasn't really Assyrian if he didn't know what tribe he was from. I told him our family didn't adhere to tribes, we belong to the Assyrian nation only, and that if we were concerned with tribes, I would have listened to my shotanayeh family and not married his father.
Zawoyo
New member
I find it good if our people know the history of their families with from which places they came from and so on, but what I can see is that there are many of them who are so much fixed in this thing that they splitt themselves more up than unite.
I don?t exactly know how advanced this way of thinking is within eastern Assyrians. Do you have social crucial songs about that?
We have such songs in western Assyrian and I find that these songs contribute very much to the abolishing of the hardcore tribe/village thinking.
I would say this is the most popular one, but it says nothing about tribes (we don?t have much tribe thinking):
suryoyo Ishok Yakub - Suryoye
I don?t exactly know how advanced this way of thinking is within eastern Assyrians. Do you have social crucial songs about that?
We have such songs in western Assyrian and I find that these songs contribute very much to the abolishing of the hardcore tribe/village thinking.
I would say this is the most popular one, but it says nothing about tribes (we don?t have much tribe thinking):
suryoyo Ishok Yakub - Suryoye
Free_Assyria
New member
baklawa said:
man i love the way you are brining up your son my kids are going to be playing with yours lol
Everytime i hear this sort of stuff im going to block my childrens ears.
I just got asked the other day "hey are you urmichanya" "I am too like you" :ranting: I just said no anna letlee showta.
Free_Assyria
New member
Rumtaya said:Hard to hide the V hahaha...
I guess this topic was more kind of question on history so no need to get fed up. Relax bro
lol you are the worst you are one of these people im talking about.
My kids will go no where you or your kids go :razz: