The Vinicius thread: Goals, Stats, Videos, News and more

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ASHOOR

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We have had a thread dedicated to Neymar for over 5 years now.

I think it is time we had one for Vinicius Jr too, seeing how he is finally living up to his reputation and having and amazing breakout season at RM.

Today he scored both of Real Madrid’s goals, taking his total for the season to 9! To put that into prospective, he scored a total of 15 goals for RM in his first 3 seasons combined! So another 6 goals and he matches the number of goals he scored in the previous 3 seasons!
 
So I am puzzled by Vinicius Jr.



First off, as you guys have been reading, I have been one of his biggest believers, even at the worst of times when he was the laughing stock of Real Madrid, including that incident where that snake Banzema told his French teammate not to pass to him.



When Vinicius emerged on the scene back in Brazil, he was doing enough things to be labeled the next Neymar and rightly so. He was a prodigy at an early age, just like Neymar was, which is why he attracted the attention of Flamengo and later Real Madrid.



But when he came to Madrid, and while he had flashes here and there, seems like something was missing. Sure, it could be the difference between playing in Brazil and playing in a more tough European league, but it is not like other Brazilians haven’t done this and adopted (save for the few like Gabigol)



Then things start to turn around late last year.



Then this year happens, where he is not only scoring goals, he is making things look so easy and his confidence is through the roof. For example, his second goal today is something that even Neymar wouldn’t have chipped with such ease. Yet Vinicius made it seem like he is Messi and having done similar goals so often.



So really, my question is or what I am wondering about, how could such an early potential go missing for years, and now suddenly he discovered? I know he is only 21 (for comparison’s sake, Neymar was almost 22 when he moved to Barcelona) and has been playing in Europe for almost 4 years. Is it the coach that is unlocking his true potential, but it is not like Zidane is a terrible coach or wasn’t giving him enough playing time.





This begs another question: what if Vinicius didn’t move to RM at age 18, and made the move at age 20 instead , where last year would have been his first full season with the club? How much would that have helped him adapt easier?



Which brings me to another player who is easily the best young talent to come out of Brazil: Kayke! He has barely played half a season in Brazil, and he has already moved to Manchester City! Compare that to VJ who had played almost 2 full seasons or Neymar who played 4 seasons with Santos. Shouldn’t they have let the kid play at least 1-2 full seasons before making the move? First, you are not letting him develop properly and when he goes there , he could flop and they will say he wasn’t good. Second, you need to let him develop that Brazilian flair, which he can’t really do if he only plays a fraction of a season. Sure, he would have learnt some of the samba fundamentals at an earlier age, or even playing in the streets, but that is not nearly enough. Otherwise what is the point, they may as well skip Brazilian clubs and just fly them to Europe when they are teenagers and rob them that Brazilian element to play beautiful football.
 
At just 21, Vinicius wins his 4th title with RM!

Of course, he is missing the big one in a CL and hopefully that comes this year?

La Liga: 2019–20
Supercopa de España: 2019–20, 2021–22
FIFA Club World Cup: 2018
 
Not that this was much of a race anymore, but after Barca lost today, Real Madrid needs just one point to win the league, with 5 games to go. This is the best position to be in, when you are trying to put all your focus on winning the CL SF , and make it to the final.

Very happy for VJ and Rodrygo. They both won a title back in 19/20, but Vinicius deserves this the most given the amazing effort and stats he put this year. As for CL, while both have done a lot to get Madrid to this stage, I just looked at their respective stats and Rodrygo has scored more goals in fewer games: 3 in 8, while Vinicius has managed 2 in 10. And while Vinicius has provided a lot of crucial assists, the thing about Rodrygo is that his goals were more crucial to Real winning or tying a game
 
Can’t wait for the Champions League game tomorrow. Hoping VJ and Rodrygo lift their first title at such a young age.
 
He has done it! Vinicius scored the winning goal against Liverpool and Real won their record 14th CL title. What an ending to an amazing season for Vinicius and Real.

At just 21, and assuming he stays healthy and doesn’t go down the distractions that Neymar engages in his career, sky is the limit for Vinicius!

Let us hope we see hi win the WC for Brazil in 5 months :)
 

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So one of common themes last few days since Brazil beat England has been the production of Vinicius for the national team, having only scored 3 goals and 4 assists across 27 games, certainly low for his profile. But I just thought this was a bit misleading or doesn’t tell the full picture. For one thing I know, he only started playing regularly starting at Copa America 2021 and we all know Tite just didn’t give him enough time overall.

Well, stats don’t lie! He has actually played a total of 1526 mins and if you do the math, that is a total of about 17 games. That is 10 games less than the official number being floated which is simply the number of times he played, even if it was those garbage minutes at the end.

Now the question becomes : is 3 goals and 4 assists across 17 games good for Vinicius. While it is not terrible , it certainly needs to go up and I know it will. It doesn’t help that he missed two easy ones last game.

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Congratulations to Vinicius Jr. and Real Madrid for winning their record 15th Champions League title.

This is Vinnie’a second title in 3 years, at just 23 years of age. He also becomes the second player after Messi to score in two CL finals.
 
The BVR line!

📊 The attacking trio at Real Madrid this season

#Bellingham 🏴
🏟️ 42 matches — 23 goals, 13 assists

#Vinicius 🇧🇷
🏟️ 39 matches — 24 goals, 11 assists

#Rodrygo 🇧🇷
🏟️ 51 matches — 17 goals, 9 assists

Total of 97 goals and assists: not bad for a trio playing their first season together and whose average age is 21.5!!!

🏆 #LaLiga
🏆 #ChampionsLeague
🏆 #SpanishSuperCup
 
Translated from Arabic:

“In 2015, Brazilian television conducted an interview with the two most prominent football talents at the time: Vinicius and Lucas Paquetá. Vinicius was 15 years old at the time. The interviewer asked them about their dreams. Paquetá said he dreamed of winning the Libertadores Cup. Vinicius said he dreamed of winning that title and of achieving the Champions League in the future. Paquetá laughed at Vinicius' dream, and Vinicius replied, "At least I have a dream."

In 2021, when Alaba announced that he would be moving to Real Madrid, Bayern Munich players mocked both Alaba and Vinicius, saying sarcastically, "You're going to play with Vinicius."

Vinicius achieved his dream and won the title twice, becoming the talk of the world and a top contender for the Ballon d'Or, while Paquetá's name is barely mentioned. Vinicius crushed Bayern Munich, winning the Best Player award in both matches, and humiliated those who mocked him by knocking them out in a trophyless season.

Vinicius is a great player, incredibly skilled to the point of provocation, and creative beyond insanity. On a personal level, he is full of emotion and treats everyone who respects him with love and respect, with Walker, Felix, and Haaland being examples. As a player, whenever opponents provoke or challenge him, he toys with them and what they think is a challenge or a complex for Vinicius, as exemplified by what he does to Araújo.

The child Vinicius who used to cry when he scored has grown up, and now only racism wears him down, though I believe he will overcome that too.

This dark-skinned player doesn't stop, doesn't tire, doesn't get defeated, and is unmatched. Vinicius is the best to wear the number 7️⃣ after the legend Cristiano Ronaldo.

For all that and more, we love Vinicius.
#VJR7”
 
Ok more Vinicius talk, what the hell, it has only been a few days since he won a historic second CL...

So his stats for the NT has been bothering me, so I decided to dig deeper, specifically into his World Cup stats (since it is his biggest tournament for the NT so far) , and even if he is leaps and bounds better since then:

Overall, he played a total of 300 minutes and had 1 goal and 2 assists
-He never finished a full game, even though in the game against Switzerland, he did complete 90 minutes and was taken just before the full game was finished. He was also rested against Cameroon.

The stats above are what they are, but when you dig a bit deeper, you will start to see that they are not terrible:

First off, I used the following site (not sure if anyone has seen it, first time I come across it) : https://fbref.com/en/squads/304635c3/2022/c1/Brazil-Men-Stats-World-Cup#all_stats_standard

They have very detailed stats for Brazil at the world cup (and likely for every major team and tournament) . Although Brazil didn't score a lot of goals to have a large sample size, here is where Vinicius' numbers shine:

-Vinnie had the most assists per 90 minutes of play
-He had the most goals/assists per 90 minutes of play
-He had the most non-penatlty goals/assists per 90 minutes of play
-He came 10th in terms of xG+xAG : I am not fully familiar with this concept, but understand the higher your number here, the more chances you wasted or didn't convert? For the recoed, Pedro, Neymar and Guimarães were top 3 in this category

In fact, if we compare Vinicius' stats with Neymar, we will see that Neymar scored 2 goals and had 0 assists, in 279 minutes of play vs. 1 goal and 2 assists for Vinicius in 300 minutes of play, but Neymar had one goal from a PK. But to be fair to Neymar, he came off an injury.
 
Vinicius has won the FIFA Best Player award: he is the first Brazilian to win it since Kaka!

A good omen for Vinícius winning the ‘FIFA Best Player Award’ is that every Brazilian who has won it has also won the World Cup! Interestingly, some won the award after or as a result of winning the World Cup, while others won it before or in a different year..

1. Romário (1994)
2. Ronaldo Nazário (Ronaldo)
• 1996
• 1997
• 2002
3. Rivaldo (1999)
4. Ronaldinho
• 2004
• 2005
5. Kaká (2007)
 
Comparing Vinicius vs. Messi titles won by age 24:


***Messi***​

With FC Barcelona:

• La Liga Titles (5): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11

• UEFA Champions League Titles (3): 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11

• Copa del Rey (1): 2008–09

• Spanish Super Cups (5): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011

• UEFA Super Cups (2): 2009, 2011

• FIFA Club World Cups (2): 2009, 2011

With Argentina:

• FIFA U-20 World Cup (1): 2005

• Olympic Gold Medal (1): 2008



_______________________________________________________________________________________________________



***Vinicius***​


With Real Madrid:

• La Liga Titles (3): 2019–20, 2021–22, 2023–24

• UEFA Champions League Titles (2): 2021–22, 2023–24

• Copa del Rey (1): 2022–23

• Supercopa de España (3): 2020, 2022, 2024

• UEFA Super Cups (2): 2022, 2024

• FIFA Club World Cups (2): 2018, 2022

• FIFA Intercontinental Cup (1): 2024

With Brazil:

• South American U-17 Championship (1): 2017

• South American U-15 Championship (1): 2015

————————————————

Messi wins but there is a big catch!

While Messi is clearly ahead with 6 titles by age 24, let us keep a few things in mind :

  • As has been the case with many emerging Brazilian talents in recent years, Vinícius didn’t get a chance to play in any U-20 World Cup or the Olympics, even though he was at the perfect age to do so, particularly for the 2020 Olympics (which could have been another title for him).

  • Had he joined Madrid just one season earlier (2017–2018), he would have added four more titles to his resume, as they won that many that season (the only titles they didn’t win were the league and Copa del Rey).

  • While the number of titles is an important metric, it’s not always the best way to compare two players, as there’s a lot that happens behind the numbers. For example, both players would have spent their early years as benchwarmers, meaning they wouldn’t have contributed as much compared to their later years. However, I used the number of titles won for two reasons: First, Messi is the player with the most titles, having secured 46 across 20 years and approximately 19 seasons of play, with four different teams. Second, Vinícius has recently received significant praise, including various awards and continued exceptional performances with Real Madrid.

  • While there is no denying Vinicius has had some great teammates since joining Madrid in the 2018 (Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Valverde, Rodrygo, Bellingham and Mbappe of late) , Messi has had relatively better teammates. Starting from Ronaldinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suarez, Villa, Eto, Henry, Bosquetes) : think about it, just in terms of major international titles (to keep things simple) , Messi's teammates have won a combined 15 WCs/Euro/CA while Vinicius teammates won 2 combined WCs/Euro/CA. See list below:

Vinícius' Teammates (Benzema, Modrić, Kroos, Valverde, Rodrygo, Bellingham, Mbappé)​

  1. Karim Benzema:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 0, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: N/A
    • Played a limited role in France's national success.
  2. Luka Modrić:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 0, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: N/A
    • Reached the 2018 FIFA World Cup final but didn't win.
  3. Toni Kroos:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 0, FIFA World Cup: 1 (2014), Copa América: N/A
  4. Federico Valverde:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: N/A, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: 0
  5. Rodrygo:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: N/A, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: 0
  6. Jude Bellingham:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 0, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: N/A
  7. Kylian Mbappé:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 0, FIFA World Cup: 1 (2018), Copa América: N/A
Total Wins for Vinícius' Group:

  • FIFA World Cup: 2 (Kroos, Mbappé)
  • UEFA Euro: 0
  • Copa América: N/A

Messi's Teammates (Ronaldinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suárez, Villa, Eto'o, Henry, Busquets)​

  1. Ronaldinho:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: N/A, FIFA World Cup: 1 (2002), Copa América: 1 (1999)
  2. Xavi Hernández:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 2 (2008, 2012), FIFA World Cup: 1 (2010), Copa América: N/A
  3. Andrés Iniesta:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 2 (2008, 2012), FIFA World Cup: 1 (2010), Copa América: N/A
  4. Neymar Jr.:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: N/A, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: 0
  5. Luis Suárez:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: N/A, FIFA World Cup: 0, Copa América: 1 (2011)
  6. David Villa:
    • Major Wins: UEFA Euro: 1 (2008), FIFA World Cup: 1 (2010), Copa América: N/A


  • FIFA World Cups:
    • Vinícius' Teammates: 2
    • Messi's Teammates: 6
  • UEFA Euros:
    • Vinícius' Teammates: 0
    • Messi's Teammates: 7
  • Copa Américas:
    • Vinícius' Teammates: 0
    • Messi's Teammates: 2
Total International Tournament Wins:

  • Vinícius' Teammates: 2
  • Messi's Teammates: 15

————————————————​

To make the comparison more fair, I do hope Vinicius can stay with Madrid until at least he turns 30 and see how many titles he will have won with them by then.
 
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