Speak Sureth?
- Thread starter Zowaa389
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Yosip88 said:
I wouldn't go that far.
There are other things that define a person, besides language. I do feel it is very vital for all Assyrians/Chaldeans to speak their native tongue at home, so their kids will learn it. My dad would beat me down if I spoke any words of Arabic in the house, and I speak both Assyrian and Arabic fluently.
So there is no negative effect for speaking your native tongue at home in a Western country.
All of my Asian friends speak their native tongue and they're all doctors and lawyers.
Free_Assyria
New member
yes i speak Assyrian.
Carlo
Active member
Language loss in a foreign country is inevitable. With each generation, the language degrades further and further.
Let's use Assyrians in Canada (where I live), for example. Assyrians whose parents come from the Middle East are native speakers of Assyrian (let's call them "Generation 0"). Their children who were born here (Generation 1, like me) hopefully learn Assyrian at home while learning English at school. Due to the influence of English, though, my Assyrian is (and will never be) as good as the G0 people. By the time G1 have kids (G2), G2's Assyrian will be sub-par at best (if they speak it at all).
I see this all the time with nukhraye. Italians have been here longer than Assyrians have, their G0 (grandparents) who were born in Italy speak perfect Italian, their kids (G1) who were born in Canada speak so-so Italian, and G1's kids (G2, people my age) only know the swear words. Though we'll try to teach them as much as we can, most of my generation's kids will only know the swear words.
jonadona, next time you see your dad, point to a chair and ask "modee shimit owa bsooreth?" If he says "kursee," you can give him the beat down. :lol:
Let's use Assyrians in Canada (where I live), for example. Assyrians whose parents come from the Middle East are native speakers of Assyrian (let's call them "Generation 0"). Their children who were born here (Generation 1, like me) hopefully learn Assyrian at home while learning English at school. Due to the influence of English, though, my Assyrian is (and will never be) as good as the G0 people. By the time G1 have kids (G2), G2's Assyrian will be sub-par at best (if they speak it at all).
I see this all the time with nukhraye. Italians have been here longer than Assyrians have, their G0 (grandparents) who were born in Italy speak perfect Italian, their kids (G1) who were born in Canada speak so-so Italian, and G1's kids (G2, people my age) only know the swear words. Though we'll try to teach them as much as we can, most of my generation's kids will only know the swear words.
jonadona said:
jonadona, next time you see your dad, point to a chair and ask "modee shimit owa bsooreth?" If he says "kursee," you can give him the beat down. :lol:
Yosip88 said:
My father does. I don't. My mother speaks some Suryoyo, but she's half Armenian and both her Armenian and her Suryoyo aren't very good. So I was brought up with Lebanese Arabic.
Carlo said:
Indeed. Many Assyrians are forgetting Syriac here in Europe. And it's only going to get worse as long as we don't have our own state.
Q.ofT. said:
The language is irrelevant in the long haul. What matters is that we preserve our Assyrian race by avoiding miscegenation as much as possible. The Syriac language is going to die out very soon anyway, and it makes no difference if we speak Syriac or not. What matters is that we are Assyrian by blood.
Atouraya Younadam
New member
Alucard said:
I would have to disagree with you for a few reasons.
1. The language is not irrelevant in the long haul. That is what seperates us from everyone else. Yes, I agree, we must avoid mescegenation, but how can you do that when you have no ties to your heritage or culture. We would be speaking the language of the country we are in and would eventually, inevitably, mix with other races.
2. The Assyrian (Syriac, Neo-Aramaic, etc...) language is only dying out because there are many people out there, like yourself, who do not see it as a means of preserving our culture and sustaining in the diaspora. It makes a difference if we speak it because, as of today, we have no country or land or even a lasting impression on the current world society to withstand a loss of language. Our faith is no different than others, we are Christian; the only difference in the faith is that we speak Assyrian at the churches, if we lose the language who will go to these churches...no one. You'll start attending a church that speaks "your" language and the rest is history.
3. We are Assyrian by blood, yes, but so are many Arabs out there...do they say their Assyrian? No, they say they are Arab because they speak Arabic and are accustomed to the Arabic culture. Assyrian blood will mix with other races and the Assyrians, by will of natural selection, will die out as a race because the dominant, or stronger, race will overcome us.
We have no country to fall back on like all the other races do when they lose their language, we have a few pages in school history books where they label us barbarians and a bible that paints a pretty bleak picture of us. Our language defines us as a nation because that is the only thing that is a visible and tangible reminder of who we are; I say nation because we speak our own language (i.e. Germans speak German, French speak French, Chinese speak Chinese, and so on); I call the language Assyrian because only we speak the language, it is also unique to us because it is not full Aramiac, we have Akkadian/Assyrian words mixed in.
In contrast, preserving the Assyrian language is the only thing that will keep our nation alive...If we lose the language, we lost it all.
There is a saying in Assyrian that describes this point: "Loup ooh Malip, Leshanit Yimmen...In la beyit, taliq shimin"
That translates to "Learn and teach your mother tongue, if you don't want to, our name will be lost".
Think about it...really...think about it.
Yours in Assyrianism,
Atouraya Younadam
Alucard said:
I disagree and I only know this from my observing/living with Maronites in Lebanon and the identity issues that they face because at this point there is NOTHING cultural/ethnic about being Maronite except the church (which many are not all that involved with anyway). So, we need not experience it first hand to know what the costs of dropping the language will be. We can learn from the problems of the Maronites in the 21st century.
As far as miscegenation, it is INEVITABLE if there is nothing to distinguish you and tie you back to that unique culture. There is a seed that you need to sow and it is in the practice of the ethnic identity, not just in claiming it. I did not realize the significance of this until I observed the effects of having no cultural distinction (which included miscegenation, but worse was a hollow/flimsy identity basis). I watched a Maronite father (ex-phalangist) tell his daughter off for dating a Muslim and her throwing it in his face that "there was no difference" because they were all Lebanese. I thought he would throw her out the 6th story balcony at this point. I talked to him months later one-on-one on Maronite identity in general and he was very remorseful at the fact that his father understood Sureth but didn't really speak it much and definitely didn't teach it to his children and lo & behold this father did not have the language skills or ethnic practices (other than religious) to pass on to his own children.
As an Assyrian who started speaking Sureth when I was 20 years old, I can attest to the fact that my own sense of identity changed when I just opened my mouth and let the Assyrian words come out. It makes a difference.
One last example, there are a bunch of people on this forum whose signatures have quotes by D.B. Perley. With all due respect, where is his progeny and how much do they identify with being "Assyrian"?
This isn't a happy thought, but it needs addressing.
Atouraya Younadam said:
Let's see here...
Atouraya Younadam said:
The language is irrelevant. It's just a way of communicating. We can do that just as good in other languages. What matters is that we know that we're Assyrians, and that we only marry other Assyrians. As long as we follow this basic set of rules (i.e., avoid miscegenation and only procreate with fellow Assyrians), we will be okay. Genetics can prove that we're Assyrians anyway. Language on the other hand, is entirely irrelevant. It's our race that matters, not our language. Our race is what created our language. It wasn't the other way around.
Atouraya Younadam said:
Culture is dynamic, not static. It's not something you can preserve. It will inevitably change no matter what we do and no matter how much we try to preserve it. Again, what matters is that we preserve our race. If our race dies out through genocide or disappears through miscegenation, it doesn't matter one way or the other who speaks Syriac and who doesn't. Our race is gone and Syriac would be a completely uninteresting, irrelevant, pointless, and worthless language.
Again, what matters is that we preserve our race and secure our existence through that. Language and culture is not the first priority here, but our race is.
Atouraya Younadam said:
I wouldn't call Arabs Assyrians by blood. While it's true that Arabs in Iraq and Syria do have Assyrian ancestors, they also do have more Arab ancestors (as well as some Persian and Greek ancestors). Calling them Assyrian by blood and Arabs by language is an invalid statement.
Atouraya Younadam said:
You are wrong. Our language doesn't define us as Assyrians. Our DNA does. While the modern Assyrian Aramaic language is a vague proof of our Assyrian past (yes, it seems to have some Akkadian vocabulary), ultimately, it is our race that defines us as Assyrians.
For your information, nation means race, not language.[1]
Atouraya Younadam said:
I would reply to that: Preserve your race and your ethnic identity, and your children will still be biologically connected with your ancient forefathers regardless of what language(s) your future descendants speak.
Make no mistake about it fellow Assyrians, we need to become more racialist than most Nazis and most Jews are. Once we are fully racially aware and conscious about our race, we won't need language or culture to preserve our people. The problem with modern Assyrians, I've noticed, is that many of us are idiots who care more about our irrelevant culture and language, than our race. You try to bring up the race issue with modern Assyrians, and politically correct morons as they are, they only resort to the Godwin's law fallacy argument, not realising how important it is for us Assyrians to be nationalist in the racial sense (we won't survive otherwise in the diaspora).
If we ever set up an Assyrian state, we must revive the Akkadian language in its Neo-Assyrian form and what's left of it. Languages can be easily reconstructed. A good example is how the Jews revived Hebrew. Of course, if we revive the Akkadian language, needless to say, it wouldn't be identical with how it was spoken back in the days but it's better than an Assyrianized Aramaic language.
Q.ofT. said:
The Lebanese people (i.e., the Maronites) are very degenerate. They are currently suffering under the negative effects of a multicultural society, where miscegenation with Muslims is unfortunately, a typical consequence. Although the Maronites are Suryoye/Suryaye just like us Assyrians, they have been very foolish with their state, they were way too tolerant against Muslim immigration, and now they're suffering for it, through civil wars, and Arabs taking over their country. It doesn't really matter if his daughter would've been able to speak Syriac or not. She would still marry a Muslim, for the following reasons:
1) She's an idiot.
2) She doesn't know her own history.
3) She's in love.
4) She's irresponsible.
5) She is selfishly in love and disrespectful of her forefathers.
6) She doesn't know anything about race.
Of course, Assyrians and Arabs are part of the same Semitic, Caucasoid race (albeit different Semitic subraces), so that said, from a biological point of view, there shouldn't be any problem with us marrying Arabs, if it weren't for the fact that they are 99% Muslims, which is a very serious problem for us Christians. We are also historically separated through different ancient empires and different Abrahamic religions.
Me personally, I am a supporter of ethnopluralism. That is one of several reasons I oppose miscegenation.
Atouraya Younadam
New member
Alucard, I still disagree with you and that won't change :mrgreen:
Obviously you are a proud Assyrian :yourock:
If anything, it's a combination of both the language and race (as identified by you). We should make an effort to preserve EVERYTHING that exists within our nation, from language on down.
Until we have a country that is.
Yours in Assyrianism,
Atouraya Younadam
Obviously you are a proud Assyrian :yourock:
If anything, it's a combination of both the language and race (as identified by you). We should make an effort to preserve EVERYTHING that exists within our nation, from language on down.
Until we have a country that is.
Yours in Assyrianism,
Atouraya Younadam
Atouraya Younadam said:
You can disagree all you like. I'm still right though because I know better than you
Atouraya Younadam said:
No, not really. I think Assyrians are morons. I do however, want us to become a strong nation again. But at the moment, this seems like an impossibility because Assyrians are so backwards.
Atouraya Younadam said:
First we secure our existence, and then we can worry about culture, language, etcetera. We secure our existence by keeping our race as pure as we can keep it by avoiding miscegenation. The more we marry non-Assyrians, the less Assyrian our offspring is going to be and eventually assimilate into other races.
Anyway, Happy New Year!
I agree with keeping the language alive. It is the most important characteristic, next to the blood, that makes an Assyrian unique. Look back to any powerful civilization and you'll see that leaders of any Nation went out of their way to make their language known to the laypeople. Now because we are Assyrian and our Nation is in a precarious position it's vital to maintain every trait that makes an Ashoraya unique.
Alucard, you argue that DNA is what will set us apart. How can you prove that you are a descendent of the great Malka (King) Ashur Banipal? Fact is you can't, unless you have his corpse preserved, you have no way of getting to his DNA. What your DNA might come in handy with is relating you to a region of the world that your DNA might originate out of. But, that region of the world has many original inhabitants that can claim it is their ancestral land. There were Jews that were living in Iraq who lived there for thousands of years. This is just one of the places DNA testing for your Assyrian race will run into bumps. Another of the many reasons, is the expensive costs to have your DNA checked. Bottom line is it's impractical to prove your race by DNA, however, this can be easily resolved by speaking your mother tongue. It's never too late and it doesn't hurt, so learn the language of the Eminent Mother Assyria!
Alucard, you argue that DNA is what will set us apart. How can you prove that you are a descendent of the great Malka (King) Ashur Banipal? Fact is you can't, unless you have his corpse preserved, you have no way of getting to his DNA. What your DNA might come in handy with is relating you to a region of the world that your DNA might originate out of. But, that region of the world has many original inhabitants that can claim it is their ancestral land. There were Jews that were living in Iraq who lived there for thousands of years. This is just one of the places DNA testing for your Assyrian race will run into bumps. Another of the many reasons, is the expensive costs to have your DNA checked. Bottom line is it's impractical to prove your race by DNA, however, this can be easily resolved by speaking your mother tongue. It's never too late and it doesn't hurt, so learn the language of the Eminent Mother Assyria!
Yosip88 said:
As the great Peter Griffin said:
Japanese, Chinese, dirty knees, look at these!!!
The point is, who cares what they do!! I'd rather have Assyrians who love their nation and work for its benefit but don't speak the language than ones who do but don't give a damn about it, as is the case with most Assyrians today.
I do speak Assyrian fluently, I do believe it is important to do so and I will try my best to have my kids speak it too, but I would not belittle someone for not speaking it if they are proud of who they are.
kur_16 said:i thought Arabic was your mother tongue :mrgreen:, until i joint this forum. All cheldean/syriac/assyrian i know speak Arabic between them self
It's likewise with some Kurds. What's your point? By the way, did you know that the Kurdish people are more Arabic/Semitic in their gene pool than Indo-European?
aL said:
In my opinion, the current language we speak today (Sureth/Suryoyo) must be destroyed and put aside. We must revive the neo-Assyrian Akkadian language. Of course, since we live in a diaspora, this isn't exactly a top priority, but make no mistake about it, we must implement Akkadian once we acquire an Assyrian state.
That said, I don't give two sh1ts about any neo-Aramaic language. It was a huge mistake that our ancient Assyrian forefathers adopted this language. Look at what it has caused us today: Syriac Orthodox Assyrians running around and pretending to be Aramaeans and betraying their own nation by siding with the Kurds. What a pathetic joke, this Aramaic language is. It has only caused us trouble.
Oh and lest we forget, Jesus was a Suryoyo:
http://www.chaldeanchat.net/forums/showpost.php?p=214499&postcount=17
It's just unbelievable. There was a time I used to feel that I should learn Syriac. Today, as an Assyrian who doesn't speak Syriac, I am quite proud of not being able to do so, and wish nothing more than the complete oblivion of the Syriac language and its superseding by the neo-Assyrian Akkadian language. We must preserve our racial heritage, and Aramaic, is surely not part of the Assyrian race. We must not forget that the Aramaeans were a traditional enemy of the ancient Assyrians, and Assyrians adopting the Aramaic language was surely nothing but a huge mistake.
aL said:
Indeed. Here, read this:
?Analysis of the Assyrians shows that they have a distinct genetic profile that distinguishes their population from any other population. It is important to understand that this applies to the population as a whole, not to any one individual. The study thus does two things: it confirms the uniqueness of the Assyrian population as a whole, and it establishes genetics as a major criterion of a population group, potentially overriding elements such as language, religion, and other social and historical components which were formerly considered to be primary determinants.?
Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2000/41-081200.html
That's all we need to know. Whether some non-Assyrians believe us to be Assyrians or not is irrelevant.
aL said:
I can't and I'm probably not. But my forefathers are most likely descendants of the ancient Assyrians. Whatever happened to Ashurbanipal's descendants we do not know, but they were most likely slaughtered. If you seriously believe that the Assyrian race is limited in scope to Ashurbanipal, you are ignorant.
I know what Malek is by the way.
aL said:
You obviously have no understanding whatsoever of human races, biology, and nationalism. What do you think Jews are? They are the same race as us Assyrians (not the extremely racially mixed Ashkenazi Jews, but the racially pure Jews; yes, they exist in small numbers). You have to learn to differentiate between Nationality and Race. Our nationality/ethnicity is Assyrian. Our race is Semitic Caucasoid. We are very closely related to Jews. Jews on the other hand, hate us because our forefathers destroyed their Israel. So don't imagine any friendship with Jews.
aL said:
As a radical Assyrian nationalist, I have no interest in learning any Aramaic language, and I consider it heresy to claim the Aramaic language to be the mother tongue of Assyria. The Assyrians adopting Aramaic was just the beginning to the end of their empire. They should just have wiped out the Aramaeans and the Chaldeans instead of trying to assimilate them, and we wouldn't have any problem today with Assyrians pretending to be Aramaeans/Chaldeans, and we would still speak a form Akkadian. We would also most likely have our own state and not be stateless like we are today.
The heartland of Assyria, which is northern Mesopotamia, was an Akkadian speaking kingdom, not Aramaic. The fact that it later changed to Aramaic doesn't mean that we should start calling the Aramaic language Assyrian.
Salem said:
A good example of that is how many Assyrians from the Syriac Orthodox Church speak Syriac very well, yet they absolutely hate Assyrians and pretend to be Aramaeans.
Case in point: it's not about preserving our language, it's about preserving our race and our ethnic identity.
Salem said:
Being proud of who you are is more important than speaking an endangered language.
Alucard said:
maybe, but i dont care if iam Indo-European or not. we are all human
"In 2001, a team of Israeli, German, and Indian scientists discovered that the majority of Jews around the world are closely related to the Kurdish people -- more closely than they are to the Semitic-speaking Arabs or any other population that was tested."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1626606/posts
