Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?

[Zawoyo]

Since I had Spanish lessons in the last year I was wondering about the similarity of the grammar between the Spanish language and our language.

The adjectives change in the same way like in Assyrian, e.g.:

- Spanish: Los hermanos de Graciela son altos y morenos.
(The letter s in the end of the adjectives shows the plural form)

- Same in Assyrian: a ahunone di Graciela rabe u kome ne.
(The letter e in the end of the adjectives shows the plural form)

An other example:

- You can say in Spanish: Tu habl-as espanol. & Habl-as espanol.

- You can say in Assyrian: hat maHk-at b surayt. & maHk-at b surayt.


Assyrian is much older than Spanish and has its origin from an other part of the world.
- So wherefrom is this similarity ?

As far as I know Spanish is a Latin swayed language. Latin was once the official language of the Roman Empire. And the Roman Empire was close to the field where our language was spoken.
So maybe there could be a connection.

If there is actually such a kind of connection than it means that Latin has Assyrian roots
and this means all the Latin influenced languages have Assyrian roots.

What is your opinion to this topic ?

shlome lebonoye

 

[Carlo]

Hey John,

What you're describing is language "inflection," and it happens in virtually every Indo-European language as well as the Semitic languages. Some linguists have thought to group these two together because of that similarity, but most are unconvinced.

 

[Ashuriena]

I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat

 

[Zawoyo]

This remembers me in that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpcjeUdRZFE  :shades:

 

[Alen Sin]

I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat

You want English/Ashurian words?

Ashurian-Eyna  English-Eye

Ashurian-Sawer/Sawarta  English-Swear

Ashurian-Boot/Bout  English-About

Ashurian-Atyanna  English-Attendant

Ashurian-Grud/Grada  English-Grate/Grating, as in "Cheese Grater"

Ashurian-Zruch  English-Scratch

Ashurian-Iwa  English-It Was

Ashurian-B  English-By  (B mut urkha?/ By which way)

Ashurian-Aratha/Arrata  English-Earth

Ashurian-Luya  English-Light

Ashurian-Satana  English-Satan

Ashurian-Qatu  English-Cat

There are more, but that's all I can think of for now.

 

[Malik Danno]

you guys are trying way too hard  :lol:

 

[Alen Sin]

you guys are trying way too hard  :lol:

And you're not trying hard enough :lol:

 

[Cascade]

I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat

Ashoor, please forgive me for bumping this thread, but I had to answer this because it's so hilariously misleading (Lol). And it doesn't have to be a reply for Ashureina, but for anyone who stumbles in here and takes what she said for granted.

"Halbat" is a borrowed Farsi word that means "of course". "Albeit" means "although" or "despite being". The two have no relations. It's just a random chance that they somehow soundalike. I mean, we say "spy" for good, and English speakers use that word for peeping. :mrgreen: Many non-related languages have this occurrence. Incidentally, the Assyrian word "(kh)zee" sounds like "see", and they even both mean the same thing (to look or observe), but yet they have no genetic ties.

"Qismet" is a Turkish word from Arabic. English has borrowed it too as kismet, although it is rarely used; Many stick with "fate" or "destiny". Even effendi, a Turkish word, is used in English, but who the heck uses it. 

What people here have forgotten is that the word "earth", which has its similar variations in most of the Indo-European languages (i.e. aard, erd,) is probably rooted from the Sumerian city name Ur, which signifies ''town, place, area, territory''. In Assyrian, earth is "ar'a" or just "ara". In Arabic it sounds closer to the English word, "arth" (Gulf Arabic uses "th", others use "d"). Now this is probably a true root or connection to our language.

 

[member 326969 Global]

As Carlo described, this is a very common phenomenon in languages throughout Europe and MENA. There are plenty more similarities, some of these are coincidental but others are due to borrowing from a mutual source or cognates etc. You will find that there are many connections between Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages in general.

You will find that words for land or earth or ground, seem to be related across most Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages. This is also true of personal pronouns. Take the ancient Aramaic pronouns Huwa (he) and Haya (she). Or Akkadian Shu (he) and Shee (she).

Also, the "h" in "hat" (you, tu, du thou) has bee added so it was originally "at" (as it is still pronounced in the East). But there were (and still are in many cases) variants such as "atta", "atti", "attunu", "attina" which make it sound a lot closer to European languages.

Some of these could be coincidental, others may not be. Below are examples of similar sounding words.

Assyrian - English/other

tabliy - table (both are probably derived from Latin)
khzee - see
taniy - tell
sswut/ ssawit - speak/converse
leyta - light
luya - light
liy/eliy - (to) light
d/t - de        "of" in Assyrian and Latin respectively.
plukh - (to) plough                    (many people use "plukh" to mean "to work" but it's main meaning according to our dictionary is "to plough")
akkara (farmer - this word is of Akkadian origin) - ager (Latin for "field, farm etc"; as in "agriculture")  -it appears the Latin word is of Proto-Indo-European origin so this might be a coincidence.
qut (touch) - tag (Proto-Indo-European: "touch")                -the reversal and of syllables or consonants is common.
taq(tiq) (knock) - tag (Proto Indo-European: "touch")                In Semitic languages, the doubling up of biconsonantal roots is also common ie taqtiq, raprip, barbir, nazniz etc
gurta - great      -gurta is feminine
shud - should    -shud means "may" as in "may he win".
b - by
bia - via      - bia means "along".
kil/kul - all
trusa/trusta - true, truth    -trusa comes from an ancient root "T-R-S" and is related to words such as "trus" (to be correct) and "taris" (to mend, repair, fix). Trusta is merely the feminine of trusa
He, ye, eyn - yes, aye      -"he" and "eyn"" are simply mean "yes" and "ye" is used to deny a negative statement.
beyn, beynath - between
tarra - thiyra (Greek for "door") - "tarra" seems to come from a very old Aramaic root that means "to open" ie the root "T-R-E". The Greek word seems to have come from the PIE *d?wer therefore, I suspect it's coincidental.
kosa - kosa (Slavic for "hair") -Seem to be Slavic loanword but I have no idea how it ended up as a common word in our language when we already have several words for "hair".
shvul/shavil - show  -shvul means to "direct"
menaaya - meaning


I believe "men" in Indo-European languages means "mind". However, the below seem to be purely coincidental and have arbitrarily evolved over time to sound similar. The below (and some of the above) should be a sign that just because you can make a connection, doesn't mean you should underestimate the vastness of languages and the fact that they are bound to be filled with similar sounding and totally unrelated words.

taxmen - think
hemen - believe
menshee - forget

 

[member 326969 Global]

I know of English words of Assyrian origin. Most of the ones I know about have entered via Arabic. I believe there are also several loanwords that have been borrowed from Assyrian into Greek (or pre-Greek).

Carob --from Syriac ?ar?bu | ?ar?b. Passed on from medieval Syriac to Arabic and eventually worked its way to English.
marcasite  --from Syriac marq(a)?ita (also maqa?itha) (iron sulfide). via Arabic
amalgam (of metal) --most likey from Syriac malagma. this was passed on from Arabic to English and it might have been of Assyrian origin as the oldest reference to it seems to be in an Assyrian-Arabic dictionary written by an Assyrian (Bar Bahlul) in the 10 century.
zircon, zirconium --from Syriac yaq?nd? (a type of gemstone)
tanbur, tanbura, tambur, tambura, tambouras, tamburica, temb?r --possibly from Aramaic/Syriac ?nbwr. The oldest references to this word are from Assyrian (Syriac), Jewish Babylonian Aramaic and Arabic -occurring at about the same time.
The Greek words "aglis" or "gelgis" (Garlic) --from the Akkadian  giddil / gidlu "string (of onions or garlic)" -compare that to our modern word "gida" meaning "string".

Here are some others interesting ones.

Capital = caput (Latin) -the meaning was ultimately influenced by the definition of Akkadian "qaqqadu"
This Latin word had the meanings "head" and "capital" (city) -this double meaning came from the Greeks who received it from the Phonecians who received it from us. The ultimate root of this double meaning comes from the Akkadian "qaqqadu" meaning "head" or "capital" (city)

Toga
possibly from Sumerian "tug" or a PIE root
Alcohol, kohl
From Arabic al-kohl / kohl from Akkadian guhlu (with the same meaning) from Sumerian  igi-hulu ("evil-eye")
Dragoman
From Arabic tarjum?n, from Aramaic turgem?n?, in turn from Akkadian targumanu
Sumac
From Arabic "summ?q" from Syriac "summ?qa" -compare with the more popular Neo-Syriac "smuqa"
Guitar
The origin of this word is subject to great debate. Nonetheless, the guitar originates from ancient Mesopotamia and we also find references to the Assyrian (Syriac) word for guitar ("qiytaara") appearing in the 10 century, pointing out that (from the perspective of the Arabs) this was something "they" (Assyrians) called it which was translated to Arabic firstly as "?????" (al-?a?d = "the oud") and secondly as "???????" (al-tanb?r = "the tanbur") -funnily enough, al-tanbur might be of Syriac/Aramaic origins (see above). Nonetheless it seems there is also an ancient Greek word "kithaara" which may also be the origin of the word "guitar". Unfortunately, the roots of the Assyrian word "qiytaara" and Greek word "kithara" can't seem to be traced back any further (as far as I can tell). This suggests that the term "guitar" has it's roots either with Greeks or Assyrians".

 

[Etain]

That's really interesting. I assumed most words with an assyrian origin related to christianity

 

[member 326969 Global]

That's really interesting. I assumed most words with an assyrian origin related to christianity

I have a brief list I wanted to post but it won't let me post more than a few lines? I'm not to sure why so I've attached it as a PDF file.

 

[Cascade]

What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?

And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?

 

[mrzurnaci]

What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?

And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?

Qetah is spelled using 'Ayn... Latin doesn't have that sound.

 

[Cascade]

Qetah is spelled using 'Ayn... Latin doesn't have that sound.

Not "qeta" (summer), dude.

Do you even know the Assyrian word for "cut"?

 

[mrzurnaci]

Not "qeta" (summer), dude.

Do you even know the Assyrian word for "cut"?

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25632&language=id

are you like 5?

 

[member 326969 Global]

What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?

Qttee = sever (not cut)
Qattqitt = chop up

Yes, that seems to be a case were they took the two strong consonants in Qttee (Qop + Ttet) and doubled it up to make Qattqitt -ignoring the "Eh/Eyn" in the root of Qttee since it's virtually diapered in pronunciation for a very long time it seems.

And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?

I can only find that claim on Wikipedia, and it claims it's from Middle English without an explanation. That etymology doesn't seem to make sense and it really seems far more likely that the word comes from the root E-N-A ('eh, Nun, Alep). See http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=17828&language=id

 

[Cascade]

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25632&language=id

are you like 5?

Spell it properly then. "Qeta" sounds like the Assyrian word for summer. "Qtey'a" is cut. How could you confuse the two distinct sounds?

Qttee = sever (not cut)
Qattqitt = chop up

Yes, that seems to be a case were they took the two strong consonants in Qttee (Qop + Ttet) and doubled it up to make Qattqitt -ignoring the "Eh/Eyn" in the root of Qttee since it's virtually diapered in pronunciation for a very long time it seems.

"Cut" is pretty much the generic term for sever (or at least a synonym). When you "chop up" something you're technically cutting. Do you think "qatqit" and "cut" are related?

I can only find that claim on Wikipedia, and it claims it's from Middle English without an explanation. That etymology doesn't seem to make sense and it really seems far more likely that the word comes from the root E-N-A ('eh, Nun, Alep). See http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=17828&language=id

It could be a coincidence that our "menaye" sounds like "meaning". I doubt that we'd be borrowing such a basic, common word.

 

[member 326969 Global]

"Cut" is pretty much the generic term for sever (or at least a synonym). When you "chop up" something you're technically cutting. Do you think "qatqit" and "cut" are related?

It's important to distinguish it from "cut" though. If i said "qttee your hand", it means "sever your hand" [from your arm]". The word qattqitt makes more sense this way since "chopping up" actually means "to cut into pieces" which is the same as saying, "to sever several (smaller) parts out of a (larger) thing"

The word I use for "cut" is "prum" -related to the word "parmee" (understand).

Cut might be related to "qut" (touch) or qttee (sever) -that seem highly likely in my opinion.

It could be a coincidence that our "menaye" sounds like "meaning". I doubt that we'd be borrowing such a basic, common word.

Probably, I don't think it's from English but we do borrow many basic words too which is why we often have far too many words for basic things.

 

[Cascade]

It's important to distinguish it from "cut" though. If i said "qttee your hand", it means "sever your hand" [from your arm]". The word qattqitt makes more sense this way since "chopping up" actually means "to cut into pieces" which is the same as saying, "to sever several (smaller) parts out of a (larger) thing"

The word I use for "cut" is "prum" -related to the word "parmee" (understand).

Cut might be related to "qut" (touch) or qttee (sever) -that seem highly likely in my opinion.


Probably, I don't think it's from English but we do borrow many basic words too which is why we often have far too many words for basic things.

I can definitely some see relation between "qtee" and "cut", but I don't know. Though they're not as dramatic as "ghzee" and "see" - These two have intrigued me the most and they have been the most obvious (at least to me).

By "basic words" I meant words that are not name of objects or at least European inventions in the past century or so (such as car, film, radio, fridge, TV, etc - which can easily be borrowed). We only tend to have our own words for objects at least older than a millennia (such as house, book and writing) and "abstract" material (love, sadness, anger, stubbornness, death, etc). So why would "meaning" (an abstract term) be borrowed, let alone from English? :/

Btw, I looked up "meaning" and the Syriac dictionary only came up with these three and I didn't see "manaye":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4265&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8747&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=33410&language=id

P.S. What about "lip" and "sipateh"? I guess now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Lol.

 

[member 326969 Global]

Btw, I looked up "meaning" and the Syriac dictionary only came up with these three and I didn't see "manaye":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4265&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8747&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=33410&language=id

I'm sure if you typed the word "meaning" into the search bar you will be inundated with results. I don't know what search criteria you entered to only get those three results. Anyway, "meaning" has a few different meanings in English.  Those that you posted refer to one sense of the word "meaning"; here are some others that may relate to various senses of the word "meaning":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25758&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=14223&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=32357&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10813&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9151&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4634&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9484&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10400&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=19280&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4232&language=id

P.S. What about "lip" and "sipateh"? I guess now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Lol.

They are too different.

 

[Cascade]

I'm sure if you typed the word "meaning" into the search bar you will be inundated with results. I don't know what search criteria you entered to only get those three results. Anyway, "meaning" has a few different meanings in English.  Those that you posted refer to one sense of the word "meaning"; here are some others that may relate to various senses of the word "meaning":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25758&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=14223&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=32357&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10813&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9151&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4634&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9484&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10400&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=19280&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4232&language=id

I did type "meaning" in the search bar and I did get so many results. I just didn't see a point of listing them all.

So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/

Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.

 

[member 326969 Global]

So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/

Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=macnAyA%27&language=fullsyriac
Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=34348&language=id
Mana: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8221&language=id


Manaya seems to be a coincidental evolution of a borrowed term ma'na. Therefore it is best avoided in favour of other words such as those above. The dictionary redirects you to the following two as examples of authentic alternatives:

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=juwdAcA%27&language=fullsyriac
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=sukAlA%27&language=fullsyriac

Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.

After a google search on the etymology of "about": Old English onb?tan, from on ?in, on? + b?tan ?outside of.
After doing the same for "but": Old English be-?tan, b?tan, b?ta ?outside, without, except?

So we are really comparing the Assyrian (Neo-Aramaic) but (about) with the Old English be-?tan, b?tan and b?ta (outside of, outside, without, except)

Being "about" or "around" something does seem closely related to being "outside" of something. -Being about or around something simply means being "adjacent" + being "outside" [of something]. Considering how far back we have to go, there is a good chance this is another coincidence (as always) but maybe there is a connection.

 

[Cascade]

We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them. Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?

And thanks for the google research on the etymology of "about".

 

[member 326969 Global]

We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them.

Yes. We should standardise our modern words and enforce their usage in both the East and West dialects of modern Assyrian (Suret/Sureth) to help them merge as much as possible. I am currently creating a small dictionary by extracting words from existing dictionaries such as the one I gave examples from. My goal is to take a simplified list of authentic (native) words and provide a translation in English so that you don't have to go digging to find the meaning of a word among such large lists of similar words, and so that you don't have to contemplate whether or not the word is authentic. I've also began listing etymologies alongside some words.

Let me clarify what I mean by "authentic". Words from Aramaic, Akkadian, Sumerian, Hurrian, Amoritic and such languages that are our deepest roots, are "authentic" and most preferred.

After the authentic words we have the somewhat authentic words: words from the languages of closely related/interactive ancient cultures ie Uratian, Phoenician, Hittite, Elamite etc -these are somewhat preferred.

The only inauthentic words that I might consider maintaining are those borrowed from languages of great pre-Islamic cultures, especially those which are relevant to our history, such as Latin, Persian and Greek -these are barely preferred. However, an idealist part of me wants to purge these words too.

Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?

I don't know what it means in Arabic or Turkish. I believe it is ultimately from Arabic but it might have been borrowed through Turkish - I'm guessing it means "meaning" in Arabic also. However, we do have an authentic Aramaic root that seems to be somewhat related:  E-N-A (Eh, Nun, Aleph,)

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=cn%27&language=fullsyriac