Need someon to write me "Suraya" with syriac letters!

R

Rumtaya

Active member
Hey is there anyone who can write here with syriac fonts? Would be nice if the person could write "Suraya" but don?t for get the silenced A in the front its important i need it thanks.
 
Tears of Assyria said:
ܐ݇ܣܘܪܝܐ
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It is so ironic that the first letter is silent. Now what if it wasn't silent? what would it read? Asuraya...and we know that Greeks didn't have 'SH' so it became this.
The easiest proof that Souraya = Ashouraya

ASHOOR
 
thanks. I had to use my laptop my deskcomputer seems to be f... up :D.

will nasha also be written with an silenced a? Anash?
 
It's actually written with two yudhs ("Suryaya"): ܐ݇ܣܘܪܝܝܐ

Alternatively, the alaph was lost a long time ago, so you often see it without one: ܣܘܪܝܝܐ

 
Tears of Assyria said:
He asked for Suraya not Suryaya,,,
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Same thing, the first yudh is silent. It's like asking for the word "mdheeta" and me giving ܡܕܝܢ݇ܬܐ, then saying "he asked for mdheeta not mdheenta."

Just because you don't hear the letter doesn't mean it's not there. :)
 
Carlo said:
Same thing, the first yudh is silent. It's like asking for the word "mdheeta" and me giving ܡܕܝܢ݇ܬܐ, then saying "he asked for mdheeta not mdheenta."

Just because you don't hear the letter doesn't mean it's not there. :)
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thats different Carlo.. I dont belive Suraya has 2 yoth in it , because the word Suraya originated from Atoraya ..
 
Tears of Assyria said:
thats different Carlo.. I dont belive Suraya has 2 yoth in it , because the word Suraya originated from Atoraya ..
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Not quite. "Athur" is the Aramaic word for the Akkadian "Ashur" (originally the name of a king, then a god, then a city, then the empire). Whatever's "t"/"th" in Aramaic is usually "sh" in Hebrew and "th" in Arabic, and it could be any one of those in Akkadian (usually "sh").

So when the Ancient Greeks wanted to transcribe the Akkadian name "Ashur," they had two problems: 1) they had no "sh" in their language, so they didn't have a letter for it (instead they used an "s" and doubled it to get the right length). 2) They also didn't have a "u," the closest thing they had was a sound usually represented by "y" (an ypsilon, not like the "y" in "yes" or "daily") that's like the French "u" or the German "?." So so far we have "Assyr" for "Ash(sh)ur," then they added the "-ia" to make it sound all nice and Indo-European like. So they had the word "Assyria" (Ἀσσυρία). Then, following the Hellenization of the region, the name "Asooryaya" ("Assyri-aya") crept in there, and we began using that name especially after we converted to Christianity.

So, there you have it. The extra yudh in there is just a remnant of the Greek "-ia" suffix, added before the Aramaic "-aya" suffix. So now you can see how "the word Suraya originated from Atoraya" isn't entirely accurate, since they both come from Akkadian ("Athuraya" directly from Akkadian, "Sooraya" from Akkadian through Greek), and it's kind of like saying French came from Italian when they both really came from Latin.
 
Dear Carlo,

You are wrong in this. The words Suraya and Suryaya both means Assyrian, but they come not from the same verb or root. And the yudh in Suryaya is not silent, we can clearly hear it. As I said it earlier; the name Suryaya comes from Syria(Surya) and Suraya comes from Assur and not from Syria or Assyria, although they are the same. It is true, the Greeks implemented Syria for Assyria in later times, but not because they didn't have the A. Because they heard us calling ourselves Suraye/Suroye. In Suraya/Suroyo you have a silent A, the A of Assur. In old times we didn't call our country Assyria either, but Assur. From Assur we called and are calling ourselves Suraye/Suroye with a silent A. Not from Assyria/Asurya. If we called our country(offcourse in our language) Assyria/Asurya than we would call ourselves Asuryaye/Asuryoye. The same happened with Suryaye/Suryoye from Syria/Surya. Because of the two consonants  r(rish) and y(yudh) after a vovel, in this case u(waw) we get two yudh's(yy) after the word Surya in an adjective manner. One yudh(y) is of the word self and the other yudh(y) is the suffix of the adjective.

If this is not clear, please ask

Y Mackay
 
A useful information: http://www.aina.org/ata/20070218144107.jsp

"A stone with a 2800 year old inscription sheds new light on today's Assyrian identity and the relation between the terms Suroyo, Suryoyo and Asuroyo. According to Prof. Robert Rollinger the question is solved. "Suroye or Suryoye means nothing else than Assyrians", he says to hujada.com..."

shlome
 
Dear John,

My point is not whether Suryoyo or Suroyo means Assyrian or not, but the evolution and the root of the words.
 
Y. Mackay said:
Dear Carlo,

You are wrong in this. The words Suraya and Suryaya both means Assyrian, but they come not from the same verb or root. And the yudh in Suryaya is not silent, we can clearly hear it. As I said it earlier; the name Suryaya comes from Syria(Surya) and Suraya comes from Assur and not from Syria or Assyria, although they are the same. It is true, the Greeks implemented Syria for Assyria in later times, but not because they didn't have the A. Because they heard us calling ourselves Suraye/Suroye.
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I never said that they didn't.

So let me get this straight:

Suryaya is from Greek Syria which is from us calling ourselves Suraya which is from Assur?

So the name was "Assur?" Really? Like, with an "s" instead of "sh?" Are you sure?

Y. Mackay said:
In Suraya/Suroyo you have a silent A, the A of Assur. In old times we didn't call our country Assyria either, but Assur. From Assur we called and are calling ourselves Suraye/Suroye with a silent A. Not from Assyria/Asurya. If we called our country(offcourse in our language) Assyria/Asurya than we would call ourselves Asuryaye/Asuryoye. The same happened with Suryaye/Suryoye from Syria/Surya. Because of the two consonants  r(rish) and y(yudh) after a vovel, in this case u(waw) we get two yudh's(yy) after the word Surya in an adjective manner. One yudh(y) is of the word self and the other yudh(y) is the suffix of the adjective.

If this is not clear, please ask

Y Mackay
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That's what I said, pretty much. A little oddly put, but pretty much. I think you need to re-read my post:

Carlo said:
. . . the name "Asooryaya" ("Assyri-aya") crept in there, . . . The extra yudh in there is just a remnant of the Greek "-ia" suffix, added before the Aramaic "-aya" suffix.
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If the Greeks got the name "Syria" from hearing us say "Suraya," how do you explain the Ancient Greek name "Ἀσσυρία" (with the Alpha), and from that the English name "Assyria?" 
 
Can I suggest that everyone decrease the size of their Syriac fonts in this thread? Or maybe an admin can do it? It affects the layout of the lines, and sometimes it's impossible to read them.
 
Writing in Sureyt is sometimes very strange. Sometimes you have to put a letter after a vowel. I know which letter goes together with the vow. But it is difficult for some people to understand that. And somehow it is strange because you don;t have that in English.

Like this

ܒܪܺܝܒܳܐܗܝ ܥܶܕܳܐ ܕܡܰܘܠܳܕܳܐ ܕܡܳܪܰܢ
ܫܰܬܳܐ ܒܪܺܝܒܬܳܐ

The last letter of brigo is a yuth. And a lot of words have an olaf behind it if it ends with the vowel o.


 
GodismyJudge said:
Writing in Sureyt is sometimes very strange. Sometimes you have to put a letter after a vowel. I know which letter goes together with the vow. But it is difficult for some people to understand that. And somehow it is strange because you don;t have that in English.

Like this

ܒܪܺܝܒܳܐܗܝ ܥܶܕܳܐ ܕܡܰܘܠܳܕܳܐ ܕܡܳܪܰܢ
ܫܰܬܳܐ ܒܪܺܝܒܬܳܐ

The last letter of brigo is a yuth. And a lot of words have an olaf behind it if it ends with the vowel o.
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It actually makes perfect sense if you know the history behind it. So there are silent letters, yes, because they used to be pronounced. It's the same with English: the "gh" in "night," "daughter," "light," etc. all used to be pronounced, and you can still see/hear them in related languages (e.g. German "Nacht," "Tochter," and "Licht").

As for alaph, you have to remember originally that a) all the letters of the alphabet are consonants, so b) alaph is a consonant (a glottal stop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop). So, in Assyrian, words can never start with a vowel and can only end in the vowels "ee," "u," and "o" (long East-Assyrian "o," not the Western zqopo).

So take, for example, the word "ar`a" ("land"). It's spelled alaph-(pthaxa)-resh-`e-(zqapa)-alaph, it can't start in the vowel pthaxa and can't end in the vowel zqapa.




 
GodismyJudge said:
Thanks for clearing that up Carlo. I didn't know that.
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It's not very well-known, in my experience. I've never seen anywhere that explains that completely so it took me a while to figure it out, and a lot of people think alaph is some sort of "a" sound (a vowel), when that sort of thinking is actually a bad thing and can confuse people.

GodismyJudge said:
But what is pthaxa and zqapa???
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It's just my odd spelling:

Eastern pthaxa (ܐܲ)=Western ftoho (ܐܰ)
Eastern zqapa (ܐܵ)=Western zqofo (ܐܳ)
 
Dear Carlo,

So the name was "Assur?" Really? Like, with an "s" instead of "sh?" Are you sure?

We had both. We still have and use both. Assur was more for the city, the country and the people. And Ashur was more for devinity, for Alaha Ashur.
And we could not say shuraye/shuroye because this meant and mean still the beginning,the start. So the name was probibly first Ashur, but it remained for the God Ashur.
For your information we, the West-Assyrians, still swear by Ashur. The same as we swear by Aloho. We use to say e.g.;Asher haukha-yo, ---Aleh haukha-yo

If the Greeks got the name "Syria" from hearing us say "Suraya," how do you explain the Ancient Greek name "Ἀσσυρία" (with the Alpha), and from that the English name "Assyria?" 
[/quote]

The Greeks also new Assyria, but that was before they created Syria from Assyria.
That was the time that Assyria was Assyria(Assur). Later as they knew better the people(the Assyrians) and hearing calling themselves Suraye/Suroye they made from Assyria Syria. More later the Romans thought thre was an Assyria and a Syria.
And so we are stukked with these two names till now.
 
Tambur said:
Athur is most likely the Aramaic version of Ashur.

Apparently Ashur was used in Akkadian (But no one really knows for sure), however we do know that Hebrew uses Ashur, and there are some words that Hebrew uses Sheen for while we use Taw, two that come to my mind right now are some numbers, Shlosha and Shmoni in Hebrew would be Tlatha and Tmanya in our language.
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I know Tambur, that's what I would've said. I was interested in what Mackay had to say about it. ;)

Whatever's "t/th" in Assyrian is "sh" in Hebrew and "th" in Arabic (thalatha and thamanya):

  • snow (t-l-g) = talga (Assyrian), sheleg (Hebrew), thalj (Arabic)
  • bull (t-w-r) = tawra (Assyrian), shor (Hebrew), thor (Arabic)
  • garlic (t-w-m) = tooma (Assyrian), shoom (Hebrew), thoom (Arabic)

And so on and so forth.
 
Carlo said:
I know Tambur, that's what I would've said. I was interested in what Mackay had to say about it. ;)

Whatever's "t/th" in Assyrian is "sh" in Hebrew and "th" in Arabic (thalatha and thamanya):

  • snow (t-l-g) = talga (Assyrian), sheleg (Hebrew), thalj (Arabic)
  • bull (t-w-r) = tawra (Assyrian), shor (Hebrew), thor (Arabic)
  • garlic (t-w-m) = tooma (Assyrian), shoom (Hebrew), thoom (Arabic)

And so on and so forth.
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There you go :)

But it's not always the case, a lot of times the Aramaic Taw would still be a Taw in Hebrew words.
 
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