Most Britons descended from male farmers who left Iraq and Syria

Jon

New member
Most Britons descended from male farmers who left Iraq and Syria 10,000 years ago (and were seduced by the local hunter-gatherer women)
By David Derbyshire


Got this is an email, and thought it was a pretty cool article.

Most Britons are direct descendants of farmers who left modern day Iraq and Syria 10,000 years ago, a new study has shown.
After studying the DNA of more than 2,000 men, researchers say they have compelling evidence that four out of five white Europeans can trace their roots to the Near East.
The discovery is shedding light on one of the most important periods of human history - the time when our ancient ancestors abandoned hunting and began to domesticate animals.

Prof Mark Jobling, who led the study: 'This was at the time of the Neolithic revolution when they developed a new style of tools, symmetrical, beautiful tools.
'At this stage about 10,000 years ago there was evidence of the first settlements, people stopped being nomadic hunter-gatherers and started building communities.  

'This also allowed people to specialise in certain areas of trade and make better tools because there was a surplus of food.'

European farming began around 9,000 BC in the Fertile Crescent - a region extending from the eastern Mediterranean coast to the Persian Gulf and which includes modern day Iraq, Syria, Israel and southeast Turkey.The region was the cradle of civilization and home to the Babylonia, Sumer and Assyrian empires.

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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1244654/Study-finds-Britons-descended-farmers-left-Iraq-Syria-10-000-years-ago.html#ixzz0dBhE9iF9




 
Keep in mind that this has nothing do with Assyria or Babylonia, this is the normal human migration that takes place throughout history, when the ancestors of some of these Europeans were living in Anatolia/Levant/Mesopotamia, the founders of Assyria were still desert dwellers in Arabia.

Btw, I believe this study makes no sense, the haplogroup within Western Europe is mostly R1b (This has a very high frequency in Britain), this haplogroup is about 18,000 years old and its ancestor is R1 which originated in Central Asia around 25,000 years ago, from R1 you get R1b which as I said has a high percentage in Western Europe while its sister R1a has a high percentage in Eastern Europe and also in Central Asia and South Asia (Not including South India), this is what you call the migration of the Indo-European speaking population which started out from Central-Asia or Euro-Asia, before that Europe was less populated and the major haplogroup there was most likely I which is a minority today existing in as I1 in Scandinavia and I2 in the former Yugoslavia region.

The R1b and R1a haplogroups also exist in the middle east, in fact in one study shows 78 Assyrian males were tested and 41% of them showed J1 (This is Semitic Arabian haplogroup that originated in Arabia), the second haplogroup was R1b being 23%, this is likely from the Indo-European population that existed in Anatolia (The Hittites for example), other haplogroups such as J2 (Mesopotamian) and G (Caucasian) were lower in frequency but then again the test sample is small imo, here's the link comparing them to an Iraqi Muslim sample:

http://thegeneticatlas.com/study_yonan2009.htm

On the same token, there's a project being done on this site:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AssyrianHeritageDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

The R1b haplogroup seems to be just as dominant as the J1 haplogroup, which means we have a rather large Indo-European background in us, there's even some with R1a (Likely from the Iranian groups that invaded Mesoptamia from the east).

 
Tambur said:
Keep in mind that this has nothing do with Assyria or Babylonia, this is the normal human migration that takes place throughout history, when the ancestors of some of these Europeans were living in Anatolia/Levant/Mesopotamia, the founders of Assyria were still desert dwellers in Arabia.

Btw, I believe this study makes no sense, the haplogroup within Western Europe is mostly R1b (This has a very high frequency in Britain), this haplogroup is about 18,000 years old and its ancestor is R1 which originated in Central Asia around 25,000 years ago, from R1 you get R1b which as I said has a high percentage in Western Europe while its sister R1a has a high percentage in Eastern Europe and also in Central Asia and South Asia (Not including South India), this is what you call the migration of the Indo-European speaking population which started out from Central-Asia or Euro-Asia, before that Europe was less populated and the major haplogroup there was most likely I which is a minority today existing in as I1 in Scandinavia and I2 in the former Yugoslavia region.

The R1b and R1a haplogroups also exist in the middle east, in fact in one study shows 78 Assyrian males were tested and 41% of them showed J1 (This is Semitic Arabian haplogroup that originated in Arabia), the second haplogroup was R1b being 23%, this is likely from the Indo-European population that existed in Anatolia (The Hittites for example), other haplogroups such as J2 (Mesopotamian) and G (Caucasian) were lower in frequency but then again the test sample is small imo, here's the link comparing them to an Iraqi Muslim sample:

http://thegeneticatlas.com/study_yonan2009.htm

On the same token, there's a project being done on this site:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AssyrianHeritageDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

The R1b haplogroup seems to be just as dominant as the J1 haplogroup, which means we have a rather large Indo-European background in us, there's even some with R1a (Likely from the Iranian groups that invaded Mesoptamia from the east).

Thanks for this post, very interesting.  I've always wanted to do a DNA genealogy test, any ideas/recommendations?
 
Tambur said:
Keep in mind that this has nothing do with Assyria or Babylonia, this is the normal human migration that takes place throughout history, when the ancestors of some of these Europeans were living in Anatolia/Levant/Mesopotamia, the founders of Assyria were still desert dwellers in Arabia.

Btw, I believe this study makes no sense, the haplogroup within Western Europe is mostly R1b (This has a very high frequency in Britain), this haplogroup is about 18,000 years old and its ancestor is R1 which originated in Central Asia around 25,000 years ago, from R1 you get R1b which as I said has a high percentage in Western Europe while its sister R1a has a high percentage in Eastern Europe and also in Central Asia and South Asia (Not including South India), this is what you call the migration of the Indo-European speaking population which started out from Central-Asia or Euro-Asia, before that Europe was less populated and the major haplogroup there was most likely I which is a minority today existing in as I1 in Scandinavia and I2 in the former Yugoslavia region.

The R1b and R1a haplogroups also exist in the middle east, in fact in one study shows 78 Assyrian males were tested and 41% of them showed J1 (This is Semitic Arabian haplogroup that originated in Arabia), the second haplogroup was R1b being 23%, this is likely from the Indo-European population that existed in Anatolia (The Hittites for example), other haplogroups such as J2 (Mesopotamian) and G (Caucasian) were lower in frequency but then again the test sample is small imo, here's the link comparing them to an Iraqi Muslim sample:

http://thegeneticatlas.com/study_yonan2009.htm

On the same token, there's a project being done on this site:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AssyrianHeritageDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

The R1b haplogroup seems to be just as dominant as the J1 haplogroup, which means we have a rather large Indo-European background in us, there's even some with R1a (Likely from the Iranian groups that invaded Mesoptamia from the east).

J1 did not originate in Arabia as previous thought. Recent studies show that J1 originated in Anantolia, being native to Assyria and then spread downwards to Arabia.

The R1b haplogroup is not from the Iranians, but most likely the Armenians and the "Franks" from the Crusaders. Iranian DNA is R1a DNA.

"When the authors examined differences among the ancient peoples of the Near East, they discovered that the languages spoken in different parts of the region were quite distinct. Until the Arabic swept across the Near East more than 1,000 years ago, there were dozens of languages spoken in the region: Aramaic in Syria, Babylonian in Iraq, and Canaanite from Lebanon to Jordan. The majority of these tongues are now extinct, but all belong to the same Semitic language family, to which Hebrew and Arabic also belong.

The authors reasoned that the history of these ancient languages may be tied to that of the people who spoke them. The history of these ancient people could be deciphered further by examining their genetic ancestry via paternal haplogroup J1e.

The researchers? combined analysis of the J1e types and the ancient Semitic languages revealed some startling results. The authors found that J1e arose in Anatolia (present-day Turkey), expanding southward toward Arabia 10,000 years ago."

Source: 23andMe Scientists Harness Linguistics to Describe Origin and History of Paternal Haplogroup J1e
 
Hanuni said:
J1 did not originate in Arabia as previous thought. Recent studies show that J1 originated in Anantolia, being native to Assyria and then spread downwards to Arabia.

The R1b haplogroup is not from the Iranians, but most likely the Armenians and the "Franks" from the Crusaders. Iranian DNA is R1a DNA.

"When the authors examined differences among the ancient peoples of the Near East, they discovered that the languages spoken in different parts of the region were quite distinct. Until the Arabic swept across the Near East more than 1,000 years ago, there were dozens of languages spoken in the region: Aramaic in Syria, Babylonian in Iraq, and Canaanite from Lebanon to Jordan. The majority of these tongues are now extinct, but all belong to the same Semitic language family, to which Hebrew and Arabic also belong.

The authors reasoned that the history of these ancient languages may be tied to that of the people who spoke them. The history of these ancient people could be deciphered further by examining their genetic ancestry via paternal haplogroup J1e.

The researchers? combined analysis of the J1e types and the ancient Semitic languages revealed some startling results. The authors found that J1e arose in Anatolia (present-day Turkey), expanding southward toward Arabia 10,000 years ago."

Source: 23andMe Scientists Harness Linguistics to Describe Origin and History of Paternal Haplogroup J1e

I did say that R1a is likely Iranian and R1b is likely Anatolian, I don't think there's any Crusader connection however, Armenian I agree with but the Crusaders likely had an influence on the Levant populations, not Mesopotamia.

As far as J1's background, well it would make sense if J1 originated somewhere in Mesopotamia/Levant/Anatolia since there's some populations in the Caucasus that have a high frequency of J1, but then again the highest frequency of J1 is in Arabia so I would not be surprised if that's the place of origin, somewhere around Yemen to be precise.

Thanks for this post, very interesting.  I've always wanted to do a DNA genealogy test, any ideas/recommendations?

I personally have not done any testing so I'm not sure where the best place is, but there's a member here that actually has done it (He came out a J1), I think his name is Unknown_User, I remember he mentioned he was involved in that project in that second link I provided.

Btw, in that second link there are some with haplogroups that are found highly in Indian populations, these people in the project are likely Indian Christians from our churches because if you check the map in the bottom for their haplogroup they're located in India.
 
hmmm... Britons used to be related to us? I guess that's why that Knife they left in our back looks like a khanjar and not an english dagger eh old chap? To hell with Briton, the mud people (muslims) are shitting all over that pestilent little island with good reason as the ghosts of the betrayed come back to haunt them. now buy a bottle of vino and watch as the sun sets on british international power.
 
Hi rumrum,

I would go with Family Tree DNA and have as many markers (assuming you are testing your Y-DNA) tested that you can afford.  I recently had my Y-DNA tested. My results are listed at the project referred to above.  I am still waiting for my mtDNA results, but they should be here any day.  Good luck, and if you have any questions, please pm me.  I would be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding testing.  The more of us that test, the better.

rumrum said:
Thanks for this post, very interesting.  I've always wanted to do a DNA genealogy test, any ideas/recommendations?
 
dok101 said:
Hi rumrum,

I would go with Family Tree DNA and have as many markers (assuming you are testing your Y-DNA) tested that you can afford.  I recently had my Y-DNA tested. My results are listed at the project referred to above.  I am still waiting for my mtDNA results, but they should be here any day.  Good luck, and if you have any questions, please pm me.  I would be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding testing.  The more of us that test, the better.

Interesting, what were the Y results if you don't mind me asking?
 
Hi Tambur,

I am G (M201+), awaiting subclade results.  My STR markers appear to match best with those in G1a.  I guess we shall see!  :)  You have not tested?  I wish more Assyrians would get involved.  You appear very knowledgeable on the subject matter.  Fascinating stuff. 
 
Haplogroup G? that's cool, I see based on that project there are only 3 people that are G (4 If you count the one in the bottom), which sounds about right, this haplogroup in itself is Middle Eastern in origin, in fact scientists believe the population who had this haplogroup were involved in the spread of the Neolithic period, I think one population example that might fit the bill would be the Hurrians, they were a Caucasian population who lived in Northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia, but then again when we're dealing with DNA and it's a much more older period so a lot of times ethnic groups identity should not be mixed with the subject, and since this haplogroup is older than 5000 BC, it's common sense to believe that part of the ancient Assyrian population contained some haplogroup G in them.

Apparently the highest frequency of G falls in the Caucasus, Iran, and Turkey, specially in that northwestern Iranian area, is your family from Urmia by any chance?

Personally I am waiting to see and learn more before I do a test, even though I sound as if I know a thing or two in reality I don't know much, I just started learning about this stuff, I will however PM you when I want to do it.
 
That is me on the bottom.  Under "unassigned."  Looks like the project admins have been asleep at the wheel for a couple of months.  :)  All four of my grandparents were from the area spanning Northwestern Iran (Urmia) and Southeastern Turkey (Hakkari Province) before their displacement.  When they returned to the region, they settled in the Iranian cities of Rasht, Isfahan, and Tehran. 
 
Tambur said:
The R1b and R1a haplogroups also exist in the middle east, in fact in one study shows 78 Assyrian males were tested and 41% of them showed J1 (This is Semitic Arabian haplogroup that originated in Arabia), the second haplogroup was R1b being 23%, this is likely from the Indo-European population that existed in Anatolia (The Hittites for example), other haplogroups such as J2 (Mesopotamian) and G (Caucasian) were lower in frequency but then again the test sample is small imo, here's the link comparing them to an Iraqi Muslim sample:

http://thegeneticatlas.com/study_yonan2009.htm

On the same token, there's a project being done on this site:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AssyrianHeritageDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

The R1b haplogroup seems to be just as dominant as the J1 haplogroup, which means we have a rather large Indo-European background in us, there's even some with R1a (Likely from the Iranian groups that invaded Mesoptamia from the east).

That is really interesting. I?d also be interested in participating in something like this, but I?m assuming this test can only be on males. I?d have to order it and then convince my dad to give me a sample hehe.
I wouldn?t be surprised if he fell into R1b or one of the other non-dominant categories.
 
Hi Nuray,

Yes, you would need your father the provide the sample to test Y-DNA.  If he is unable, and if you have a brother from the same father, then he is just as good an option.  To extend this even further, the following relations would also provide the same Y-DNA as your father and brother:

1.Your paternal grandfather
2.Your paternal grandfather's brothers (grand-uncles)
3.Your father's brothers (uncles)
4.Your father's brother's sons (cousins)

If you would like to test your mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA), you just need yourself.  :)
 
Good to know I could also use my brothers' dna. I'm more interested in finding out the y-dna results since it was most likely the men that migrated around in the olden days and introduced the less common dna into the gene pool.
 
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