Good God Almighty..
- Thread starter MXJSPH
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BLUEICE said:
Keep up. It implies that there are even FEWER non-whites around the country. Anyway, whats the big deal eh? Why are you pointlessly going after how many indians in the U.K or whatever? I think you need the focus, not I.
Fact: atheism and non/anti-religiousness is growing not just here, but around the developed world. If you're trying to say I'm just a part of a trend - fail - I'm Assyrian mate, its hardly trendy whichever way you look at it.
ultoMa said:
David said:
LOL, yeah, massively misdirected isn't it? It seems like religious people question everything EXCEPT these fantastical beliefs of theirs. If anybody truly did question these beliefs outside of a framework where invisible incomprehendable things can be causes.. ah, I can only dream.
Bottom line; the universe doesn't care what you think.. as the saying goes. I mean, woman was made from some dust and the rib of man.. yeah? Really?
ultoMa said:
lol wow.
blueice it aint even worth it homie, when ppl are blind they are just that, blind, im not gonna sit here and fight valiantly against my cause when it gets me no where but into deeper arguements. facts are givin, supposedly, by both sides and both sides remain to be ignorant and blind to eachothers theories, so fuq it its not worth getting angry behind a computer.. i promise to each and every one of you atheists something will happen in your lifetime to where you laugh at your own words, shiet even us christians do, im not saying the belief of religion, but something will let you know eventually they're is a greater power, wether you believe in Yahweh and his son, a elephant, or a statue of buddah, or etc...
ramsiN said:
that's already happened to me when i was a christian. After questioning it and realizing how indoctrination, cultural expectations, human psychology, and misinformation can affect someone's mental state, it's not uncommon to associate common place events with 'greater' phenomenon. Furthermore, even if this were to happen again, who is to say that it's jesus? Why can't it be the hindu gods or some ancient gods we've forgotten? How is it that you know that this great power is specifically jesus? The simple answer is you don't. You take it on faith; which is ultimately what every christian does and will admit to, if the conversation is allowed to continue. Your position is faith based, which means you have NO proof. Fret not though, since jesus himself promotes belief on faith, not fact. You get extra points for believing despite no evidence being present.
ramsiN said:
anyways all power to you, atleast you tried to experience it. it didnt work for me many times over as well which is why my thoughts on this subject were that exact of MJays untill about 6 years ago. i started realizing all the good over the bad, and to me its what worked. like i said earlier man im not here to dictate how anyone lives there lifestyle, just defending on behalf of christians as to why God doesnt stop natural disasters, and why there is desctruction. like i said all power to you man, as long as you know who you are and are happy in life then thats what matters. others like me look to our religion to learn that.
Blah blah blah! Moot wahis itlokhon, especially some of you nonbelievers. As interesting and as flawed as the idea of atheism may be for me, I could never sit behind a computer screen and constantly argue why my set of religious believes or my believe in a creator is superior to it. I don't know where the desire to engage in this such debate stems from, but I find it to be very fascinating.
Also, I think the major issue with the atheists that we commonly see frequenting the avn religious forums is that they are conceptual bullies. They try to chronically depict religious people in general as the kind that present their believe in the existence of God as a solid scientific fact, which is not at all the case. Because faith is such a foreign concept to them, they cannot even slightly fathom the possibility of it existing enough to create an entirely different kind of a conceptual system and hence why the argument always ends up getting nasty. I mean I understand that every one of us pretty much uses our believes or lack of believes to do or defend what we do in life, but I really REALLY find it to be painfully silly and dumb when every thought that comes out of a person in regards to religion/God strongly gravitates towards belittling or poking fun of it.
Also, I think the major issue with the atheists that we commonly see frequenting the avn religious forums is that they are conceptual bullies. They try to chronically depict religious people in general as the kind that present their believe in the existence of God as a solid scientific fact, which is not at all the case. Because faith is such a foreign concept to them, they cannot even slightly fathom the possibility of it existing enough to create an entirely different kind of a conceptual system and hence why the argument always ends up getting nasty. I mean I understand that every one of us pretty much uses our believes or lack of believes to do or defend what we do in life, but I really REALLY find it to be painfully silly and dumb when every thought that comes out of a person in regards to religion/God strongly gravitates towards belittling or poking fun of it.
jacob
Active member
Nuray said:Blah blah blah! Moot wahis itlokhon, especially some of you nonbelievers. As interesting and as flawed as the idea of atheism may be for me, I could never sit behind a computer screen and constantly argue why my set of religious believes or my believe in a creator is superior to it. I don't know where the desire to engage in this such debate stems from, but I find it to be very fascinating.
Also, I think the major issue with the atheists that we commonly see frequenting the avn religious forums is that they are conceptual bullies. They try to chronically depict religious people in general as the kind that present their believe in the existence of God as a solid scientific fact, which is not at all the case. Because faith is such a foreign concept to them, they cannot even slightly fathom the possibility of it existing enough to create an entirely different kind of a conceptual system and hence why the argument always ends up getting nasty. I mean I understand that every one of us pretty much uses our believes or lack of believes to do or defend what we do in life, but I really REALLY find it to be painfully silly and dumb when every thought that comes out of a person in regards to religion/God strongly gravitates towards belittling or poking fun of it.
You stink, farm girl. :eekout:
Nuray said:Blah blah blah! Moot wahis itlokhon, especially some of you nonbelievers. As interesting and as flawed as the idea of atheism may be for me, I could never sit behind a computer screen and constantly argue why my set of religious believes or my believe in a creator is superior to it. I don't know where the desire to engage in this such debate stems from, but I find it to be very fascinating.
Also, I think the major issue with the atheists that we commonly see frequenting the avn religious forums is that they are conceptual bullies. They try to chronically depict religious people in general as the kind that present their believe in the existence of God as a solid scientific fact, which is not at all the case. Because faith is such a foreign concept to them, they cannot even slightly fathom the possibility of it existing enough to create an entirely different kind of a conceptual system and hence why the argument always ends up getting nasty. I mean I understand that every one of us pretty much uses our believes or lack of believes to do or defend what we do in life, but I really REALLY find it to be painfully silly and dumb when every thought that comes out of a person in regards to religion/God strongly gravitates towards belittling or poking fun of it.
When 'moderates' (i.e. the religious people who don't take their religion that seriously - because lets face it, you are meant to hate gay people, discard wealth, etc) start combating and bringing down the fundamental arms of their respective religions, secularists will put their feet up and relax. Dawkins' book deal wouldn't have been renewed!
But that will never happen. You know why? Because if 'moderates' are half-arsed about how they practice religion and what soft passages they choose to remember and identify with from their 'holy' books, what makes any of us secularists think that you guys will cease being the blanket from which the crazies operate from? You 'moderates' are, excuse my French, fucking useless at controlling the crazy parts of your faith. Your complicit, shrug-of-the-shoulders attitude vexes sometimes me more than stupid fundamentalists because you guys have the audacity to be arrogant about something you're only half-arsed about. At least those bastards live and breathe their fairy tales - albeit to tragic effect! When I see two guys in dresses really trying to talk things out, calm tensions, do things.. when I see different beardy-weirdys talking and trying to discourage terrorism meaningfully by actually doing things to that affect.. when I see these things, I will be a little satisfied.
Which means I will never be because they just don't care.
And half of the time, they don't care because these crazies are saying and doing things they don't have the balls to say or do, but actually want to. Fact.
So the fight must be fought.
MJaY said:
Ah that is such ignorant babble. Religion is not the cause of today's problems my friend. It never has been. When you live in a world that functions on money, land and political idealism, you will always have such problems regardless of whether or not religion has a place in it.
I think for someone to propose the way to solve issues of this magnitude is by elimination of something as important & vital as spiritualism is dangerous. It's the same as if someone were to suggest that we ban love because crimes of passion exist. I really believe you've been fed some really destructive & irresponsible propaganda. You have to realize that most of everything humans have done in the past has caused them to dig themselves in a hole that seems to just get deeper and more difficult to climb out of with time, so the easiest excuse for those that despise all things spiritual & think that this makes them nature's gift to humanity is to blame it all on religion. It is all so sad and pathetic, but it's the truth.
Nuray said:
No, religion is definitely a problem in today's society, as it actually promotes inequality, male dominance, arrogance, hatred, tribalism, and a profound ignorance and rejection of scientific endeavour.
Also, my "ignorant babble", which I try to keep informed by science, philosophy, logic, progressivism, equality and compassion pales in comparison to your "informed spirituality", which consists of ultimately blind faith, fairytales about 'good' and 'evil', prophecies about the end of the world, concepts such as eternal damnation and immortality, and lastly, a mystical wizard creator who sends angels to kill non-Jewish armies and floods to kill gazelle and bunny rabbits. Makes a lot of sense.
I think calling me pathetic as some kind of offhanded rebuke was gravely mistimed and inappropriate, no?
Knight
Active member
For the people who follow science, philosophy and logic; stick to those pricipals and stop complaining about others. If you are happy with your derivatives of what life is, then why bother with trying to prove to others that you are right?
For those who are more spiritually inclined and religious (including me being a Christian); if you are faithful enough, then no wind can blow you off of your foundation and convince you otherwise. Why do you rebuke in anger and quarrel aimlessly?
For those who are more spiritually inclined and religious (including me being a Christian); if you are faithful enough, then no wind can blow you off of your foundation and convince you otherwise. Why do you rebuke in anger and quarrel aimlessly?
Knight said:
why bother? the same reason your parents bothered to teach you about religion. They thought they were doing you a favour and chose to teach you something they value. It's also the same reason why you will most likely teach your kids about christianity. This 'why bother' question is weak b/c it does nothing to further the conversation; it just halts it.
Moreover, if you are faithful, then you SHOULD be blown one way or the other b/c you don't stand on any evidence; that is the nature of being in faith. If you have faith, you should sway; if you have evidence, well, there's no use in swaying.
Knight
Active member
ultoMa said:
You stand on evidence. Don't worry about what I stand on. Or are you worried that what I stand on might be more concrete than your evidence? Anyway, if you are sure of yourself, you dont need to prove yourself, as any argument to do so will only justify your vulnerability towards insecurity.
You find your values from where you wish. I find my values in my faith of the "Good God Almighty".
Knight said:
If your position is faith based, it is impossible for it to be more accurate than an evidence based position. Anyone who disagrees does not understand the meanings of the words 'faith' and 'evidence'. So, i'm not worried about your position b/c it's a faith based position. It is belief WITHOUT evidence. If there were evidence, it wouldn't be called faith; it would be called fact.
As far as your second point, i'm not fully understanding your point. Are you suggesting that those that engage in argument are only showcasing their 'vulnerability towards insecurity'? If that is the case, then how do you further knowledge without argument? Is anyone who is involved in argument or debate just showing off their insecurities? How do you suppose christianity came into being without argument or debate? I'll never appreciate this suggestion b/c, as i said before, it halts knowledge. It stops the pursuit of truth and is content without a static mindset.
Knight
Active member
ultoMa said:
I will not speak on your behalf because only you know where you exactly stand, but i will speak for myself.
Your first point:
The evidence of the existance of my God is all around me, my body, my soul, the breath that i breath, the nature I enjoy. I choose to acknowledge it. I chose to have faith in Him as the Creator of all things good. Only He, the Designer could create our world. That is evidence and faith wrapped into a neat package. Now, argue as you wish against that, the wind that you blow will only tickle.
Second point:
Do not generalise. Understand the single point that i offered. If you choose to have a certain value system, then that's your choice. Do not impose on me the particular path that you take, as that would be very hypocritical coming from someone complaining about the imposition of Christianity upon his life.
Knowldge does not come from the argument of unproven philosophies as anyone can dish out a whole lot of "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" and indulge into a spiral of nothingness.
Knight said:
a few things:
1. the world and all its splendor is not evidence of a divine creator. It might be evidence to YOU, but it is not evidence. Thinking otherwise is confusing the definition of the word 'evidence'.
2. regarding your last comment, are you suggesting that christianity along with its opposition are unproven philosophies?
Knight
Active member
ultoMa said:
1. You got me, then you lost me again. You are right, to me the world around me is evidence of a Divine Creator. That is MY evidence, that is my testification, my proof. Again, if you don't think it's evidence, then that's your opinion, and i regard it only as your opinion, nothing more or nothing less.
2. No, i'm saying that you don't gain knowledge by going around in circles. The arguments here always discuss the same issues with the same people failing to accept each other. Acceptance would solve a lot of issues!!
Knight said:
can you please give me your definition of evidence, b/c i have no idea what it could be. I'm failing to understand b/c you're redefining the word. Evidence is not someone's subjective perceptions. Example: the theory of gravity is treated as fact. Science has proven this and has evidence to back it up. It is evidential b/c it is repeatable, it brings in predictable results, and it can be measured and monitored. Your 'evidence' on the other hand is none of these. So, i CAN tell you that your position is not evidential b/c it just isn't. The same way you can tell someone who concludes that scientology is correct b/c humans can act negatively that their position is not evidential, i can about your position. You take it on faith to believe what you believe.
Everyone can look at the evidence for gravity and conclude that that evidence is for gravity. PPl can look at the world and conclude a limitless amount of conclusions. They cannot all be correct, and only the ones who root their conclusions on testable, repeatable conclusions can claim evidence.
Knight
Active member
ultoMa said:
Evidence is not a scientific experiment, it does not need testing. When Newton saw an apple (evidence) fall from a tree, he did not say i gotta test the apple to see if it is real. He looked at what caused the apple to fall. The cause is gravity, the effect is downward acceleration, the evidence is apple on the ground.
In the same way, evidence, being God's wonderful creation, is everywhere you look. The cause is God, the process is creation, the evidence is us.
Senalco
New member
Knight said:
aha again... Look what I found Knighty
Romans 1: 20 " For since the Creation of the World, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature , have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that Men are without Excuse"
Wait a Second though Knighty, if the above is telling us that All have no excuse, then why do we have such people today who demand evidence of God's existence?
Maybe its because of this:
Romans 1:18 " The Wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Since what may be known about GOD is Plain to them, becuase GOD has made it plain to them "
Enough Said