Chaldean groups forge ahead with unity in Iraq

C

Concerned Assyrian

New member
Ankawa.com today reports that a number of Iraq's leading Chaldean political figures represting political parties and civil society groups met on the 5th of May 2009 to consolidate plans for the creation of a single united Chaldean entity in the form of a supreme Chaldean council. Their statement lists a number of points as a path to future Chaldean unity in the homeland. Importantly this newly forged unity has commenced preparations for a worldwide conference of Chaldean groups.

Taking part in this meeting were the following:

Hikmat Hakim (Independant)

Abdulahad Afram MP (Chaldean Democratic Union Party)

Zaia Poutros (Chaldean National Congress)

Nouri Mansour (Chaldan Democratic Forum)

http://www.ankawa.com/forum/index.php/topic,297046.0.html
 
Concerned Assyrian said:
Ankawa.com today reports that a number of Iraq's leading Chaldean political figures represting political parties and civil society groups met on the 5th of May 2009 to consolidate plans for the creation of a single united Chaldean entity in the form of a supreme Chaldean council. Their statement lists a number of points as a path to future Chaldean unity in the homeland. Importantly this newly forged unity has commenced preparations for a worldwide conference of Chaldean groups.

Taking part in this meeting were the following:

Hikmat Hakim (Independant)

Abdulahad Afram MP (Chaldean Democratic Union Party)

Zaia Poutros (Chaldean National Congress)

Nouri Mansour (Chaldan Democratic Forum)

http://www.ankawa.com/forum/index.php/topic,297046.0.html
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what does this mean? that Chaldean will struggle for themselves? and unifying all chaldeans but what abotu Assyrians?
 
This reminds me of all these 'Arab Summits', which are usually attended by less than half of the 20 Arab leaders: there is always conflicts, disagreements and distrust between them to be to come together and hold a summit.

This will be the same thing. There are way too many different agendas for them to be able to come together, meet and agree on a common goal or agenda. And even when they do, what follows will not be easy to implement, as each will have their own agenda.

ASHOOR
 
I can see this inspiring other dead civilisations to come back to life and forming their own political movements:

-The Political Mayan Party
-The Socialist Roman Latin Movement
-The Medes Awakening Movement

You see, the list could on and on....


</SARCASM>


ASHOOR
 
There's no reason to be upset with this.  Today is no different than last week, prior to their demand.  It is simply more public.  They have always behaved this way anyway.

Everyone just calm down :) Our history is written in stone, not on ankawa.com, not in the Baghdad constitution, and not in anyone's imagination.
 
waleeta said:
There's no reason to be upset with this.  Today is no different than last week, prior to their demand.  It is simply more public.  They have always behaved this way anyway.

Everyone just calm down :) Our history is written in stone, not on ankawa.com, not in the Baghdad constitution, and not in anyone's imagination.
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No wonder people missed you here! :)


I am not really upset, after all, nothing happened yet. For real results, if there are any, will have to be years before we see them.

I see some positives coming out of this: it is at times like these where people come together and unite even more. It is unfortunate that statements and events like these is what unite us.

ASHOOR
 
Do you guys see the ACOE and ADM getting closer, as a result of this? Or it has nothing to do with it?

ASHOOR
 
I am not angry about this. The reason I posted it was to demonstrate that while we have and are expending years of valuable time and political effort pleading with the very people who were at this meeting to join us under a new compound name and unify this nation, they are successfully doing the opposite. What they are doing is a brilliant act of political strategy. They are uniting, or at least attempting to unite, their respective political parties and groups under one name, one ideology and one direction. Of course I don?t agree at all with their foolish version of history and political motives but I do see the political significance of their moves.

And yet we, after almost 7,000 years of history, the creation of one of history's mightiest civilisations and even the greatest missionary enterprise the world has seen, are arguing amongst ourselves as to what our identity is and what to call ourselves.

And what for? To appease these political 'leaders' who are laughing in our faces?
 
Concerned Assyrian said:
I am not angry about this. The reason I posted it was to demonstrate that while we have and are expending years of valuable time and political effort pleading with the very people who were at this meeting to join us under a new compound name and unify this nation, they are successfully doing the opposite. What they are doing is a brilliant act of political strategy. They are uniting, or at least attempting to unite, their respective political parties and groups under one name, one ideology and one direction. Of course I don’t agree at all with their foolish version of history and political motives but I do see the political significance of their moves.

And yet we, after almost 7,000 years of history, the creation of one of history's mightiest civilisations and even the greatest missionary enterprise the world has seen, are arguing amongst ourselves as to what our identity is and what to call ourselves.

And what for? To appease these political 'leaders' who are laughing in our faces?
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CA, you make some great points, not to mention the way you express it: brilliant. But we already knew this, and it is not like these leaders were with Zowaa and now turned against it.  Like Waleeta said, it is just that they had more time to come out and make it public. This has always been their stand and position. Nothing has changed other than the way they went about doing it.

Zowaa doesn't appeal to the leaders of the Chaldean community, but rather the people in the street. The average person that is. They can target the leaders too,  and they have, but leaders have their own agenda. It is easier to turn regular people and avarage citizens. And they have succeeded in brining a lot of these on board. Just look at Zowaa's members in the Nineveh Plains: last time I checked, the majority is not from the ACOE.

So I beg to differ when people say Zowaa's strategy to include Chaldeans and Syriacs hasn't worked.

Just because these 5 politicians have come together and decided to form something doesn't mean much.

Zowaa will have failed when the majority of the Chaldean catholic community come out and reject Zowaa's vision: that hasn't happened, and if anything, more have joined ever since Zowaa adopted this political name.

ASHOOR
 
But, why is it brilliant?  To the contrary, this will be very, very bad for their millet.  They are merely doing what the Jacobites did decades ago, and what did that do?  It put Nationalist Assyrian Orthodox against "Armaeans" and "Suryoye" (or whatever they call themselves).  These men are going to cause division within their own millet, Assyrianists vs. Chaldeanists.  It was inevitable.  Unfortunate, but inevitable.

While any and all division is always sad and never something we should want, we have to accept they need to go through their own evolution as we did, and as the Orthodox did.  Let them be.  Let the millet argue it out, and believe me, they will. 
 
waleeta said:
But, why is it brilliant?  To the contrary, this will be very, very bad for their millet.  They are merely doing what the Jacobites did decades ago, and what did that do?  It put Nationalist Assyrian Orthodox against "Armaeans" and "Suryoye" (or whatever they call themselves).  These men are going to cause division within their own millet, Assyrianists vs. Chaldeanists.  It was inevitable.  Unfortunate, but inevitable.

While any and all division is always sad and never something we should want, we have to accept they need to go through their own evolution as we did, and as the Orthodox did.  Let them be.  Let the millet argue it out, and believe me, they will. 
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Thank you and I will be the first one to come out and publicly say that I wish this will backfire on them and cause all types of divisions and arguments within the Chaldean population that follows this. I absolutely wish for this to happen. Simply because they deserve it for wanting to seperate for their brothers (all Assyrians in general)

It is becoming so easy these days to please the Kurds and our enemies in general, eh? ;)

They are sitting down and laughing: "These Assyrians are so easy to manipulate, or even to turn against one another"  LOVE IT!


ASHOOR
 
Can't wait to see what Sam Darmo has to say about this haha :lol:

WOW it is going to be the comedy of the century this time, you guys make sure you don't miss it.

ASHOOR
 
Well, Ashoor, I don't think we should wish it to happen, it is just inevitable that it will, eventually.  We should never wish any Assyrian problems, or harm, or division, it hurts us all. It's like wishing one leg to break to spite the other.  This is happening to your Umta, and if one part of the Umta suffers, we all do.
 
ASHOOR said:
Zowaa doesn't appeal to the leaders of the Chaldean community, but rather the people in the street. The average person that is. They can target the leaders too,  and they have, but leaders have their own agenda. It is easier to turn regular people and avarage citizens. And they have succeeded in brining a lot of these on board. Just look at Zowaa's members in the Nineveh Plains: last time I checked, the majority is not from the ACOE.

So I beg to differ when people say Zowaa's strategy to include Chaldeans and Syriacs hasn't worked.

Just because these 5 politicians have come together and decided to form something doesn't mean much.

Zowaa will have failed when the majority of the Chaldean catholic community come out and reject Zowaa's vision: that hasn't happened, and if anything, more have joined ever since Zowaa adopted this political name.
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ASHOOR, I very much understand your points. Zowaa is appealing to members of the Chaldean church at a grassroots level to bring them on board. That is great. But at what cost? Alienating thousands of former supporters who consider themselves Assyrians but who now are suddenly hostile because they feel betrayed by a party they supported for so long. Surely these ordinary people who have been changed can?t be of any significant number. We would have seen the electoral results (even before Aghajan and Co.). Why not leave the changing of these ordinary people to the hands of those amongst them who believe in an Assyrian identity? Let?s really ask ourselves how effective the venture has been.

waleeta said:
But, why is it brilliant?  To the contrary, this will be very, very bad for their millet.  They are merely doing what the Jacobites did decades ago, and what did that do?  It put Nationalist Assyrian Orthodox against "Armaeans" and "Suryoye" (or whatever they call themselves).  These men are going to cause division within their own millet, Assyrianists vs. Chaldeanists.  It was inevitable.  Unfortunate, but inevitable.

While any and all division is always sad and never something we should want, we have to accept they need to go through their own evolution as we did, and as the Orthodox did.  Let them be.  Let the millet argue it out, and believe me, they will.  
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In order for it to backfire you must have a significant population within the Chaldean community who are willing to battle it out against those who want to cause division between Assyrians and Chaldeans. Looking at my own community in the city I live there are perhaps one, two, three per cent who identify as Assyrians. In Iraq this may be more, but is it significant enough to cause a real, lively dialogue within the Chaldean community as to the truth of their identity? I really don?t believe there are the numbers to spur this. The Jacobite example is not comparable in numbers. Within the Syrian Orthodox Church there is a significant and substantial movement towards an Assyrian identity ... numbering in the many thousands. Some parishes of the Church are established with a full membership who consider themselves Assyrian and other parishes who don't. This just is not present in the Chaldean community. Like you say it may get there ... eventually. But by that time will we have lost the chance for political success? Will we have squandered precious time?
 
waleeta said:
Well, Ashoor, I don't think we should wish it to happen, it is just inevitable that it will, eventually.  We should never wish any Assyrian problems, or harm, or division, it hurts us all. It's like wishing one leg to break to spite the other.  This is happening to your Umta, and if one part of the Umta suffers, we all do.
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It is no longer your umta when they want to seperate (not much different from the Arameans for example)

These divisions will make them realize that what they are doing is meaningless, and that they have no choise but to go back to the root.

If failure is not their fate, then they will see that are doing something good and succeeding, and will only move forward with their plans.

ASHOOR
 
The Chaldean population has to rebel against those who try to manipulate them for personal and political agendas. We have some very smart, wise and active members of the Chaldean community who are aware of the history and would never accept this. It is our hope that these will do their best to awaken those who are at the risk of being misled by these individuals, seeking to revive a 'Chaldean Identity'

ASHOOR
 
Well Ashoor, that's where we disagree, I guess.  I still consider them my umta.

@ CA, you're right, and I believe there are enough in leadership positions and every citizens to be upset with this move.
 
waleeta said:
Well Ashoor, that's where we disagree, I guess.  I still consider them my umta.

@ CA, you're right, and I believe there are enough in leadership positions and every citizens to be upset with this move.
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The people are absolutely my umta. But not these politicians or their followers. I am one of the biggest proponents of unity amongst Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriacs. But thos who come out and publicly go against their own milat, we will have to leave them until they come to realize that they are causing a big rift in this nation.

ASHOOR
 
It will be interesting to hear what Bassim Bello or Pascale Warda say about it, if anything at all.  I doubt anyone from Zowaa will be allowed to publicly comment.
 
Scenario 1: "Zowaa speaks out against Chaldean Synod"

"See?  Zowaa interferes with religious institutions, and now that the Chaldeans are not supporting them, they are attacking them too".




Scenario 2: "Zowaa insists to KRG and Baghdad that Chaldeans and Syriacs are ethnic Assyrians"

- the KRG shrugs its shoulders and say "We are respecting the will of the head of one of the Christian groups in Iraq, why aren't you?"

- Baghdad says "We're sorry, we are respecting the will of the head of the Christian groups in Iraq, why aren't you?"





Give me a realistic Scenario 3 which doesn't result in making Zowaa look like "dictators" or "anti-church".
 
KatiaKate said:
i dont think there is one, i am sorry to say it, but what i learned here gave me this idea about zowaa,
wants it Zowa way or the high way. i hope i am wrong..
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What?
 
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