Can we stop kidding ourselves for a minute please?

Enki

Active member
OK I'm tired of reading and hearing about us Assyrians and our current situation in the Middle East (namely Iraq).

Lets get just this clear and lets just snap back to reality. Here is a list of 10 things we need to start realizing. In no particular order they are.....

1) WE'RE NOBODY'S!

2) WE ARE NOTHING!

3) NOBODY LIKES US!

4) NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT US!

5) WE DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT US!

6) NO AMOUNT OF FLAG WAVING, INTERNET POSTING, SONG WRITING, OR ANY OTHER "ASSYRIANISM" WANNA BE WILL HELP OUR CAUSE!

7) THE NAME GAME IS DONE SO ENOUGH ALREADY!

8) CHURCH? STATE? LETS SETTLE IT HERE AND NOW, YOU WANT CHURCH. GO BE A PRIEST. YOU WANT STATE, GO BE A FIGHTER OR JOIN THE POLITICAL PARTIES! OTHERWISE, STAY OUT OF EACH OTHERS BUSINESS!

9) IF YOU'RE GOING TO PROTEST, PROTEST PROPERLY! PROTEST WITH REAL PASSION AND ANGER! BURN A FLAG! THROW SOME STONES! BURN GARBAGE! SMASH WINDOWS! FIGHT WITH POLICE! BUT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO ANY OF THE ABOVE, YOU BETTER MEAN IT IN YOUR HEART! OTHERWISE ITS JUST AN ACT AND ITS POINTLESS!

FINALLY.....

10) EVEN IF WE WERE TO SOME HOW MIRACULOUSLY GET A COUNTRY, WE HAVE NO FOUNDATION FOR A SOLID AND STABLE ECONOMY! WE WOULD BE TAKEN OVER IN LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER INDEPENDENCE!



To summarize, get over yourselves! Assyria does not exist! The only way it will, is if we lick our wounds, admit our mistakes, forgive each other, and work harmoniously following one ideology, one state, one mind, and one power, together in unison, for the sake of our mother land and for the sake of Assyrian survival. (thats a run on sentence sorry...lol)

Lets stick together as one people.

The fall of Assyria came because we couldn't unite the many tribes we conquered. To this day that problem exists. Only when we quell this problem and settle it shall we rise from the ashes and embark in the 21st century as a nation that defied all odds and returned to existence after 2400 years of silence!

That is my dream. And together, we can make it happen.

All I ask is for you all to donate a total of $35-50 million a year to me and I can make it happen :) Anyone?
 
For a second there I was beginning to take you seriously.  I honestly don't care about getting a country right now, I just want the violence to stop.  Once the persecutions are done and over with, if they ever will be, then we can concentrate on the Nineveh Plains or the complete annexation of Northern Iraq. 
 
Anki, who is talking about a country? we only want proper rights in our homelands..

and hey if the kosovans could handle a country, why couldnt we?
 
BraTeiL said:
Anki, who is talking about a country? we only want proper rights in our homelands..

and hey if the kosovans could handle a country, why couldnt we?

They fought for theirs.....we're just sitting there.

Theres an old quote from a former US Army General.

It goes like this:

"You don't win a war DYING for your country. You win a war by making the other poor bastard DIE for his!"

The same can be said about Assyrians. You wont get a country dying for your country. You get the country by making the other poor bastard die for his.
 
The point is, its.....

sand-of-time.jpg


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But really, we do suck. Thats the point.
 
Anki, this was a dissappointing read.....

How about instead of pointing out our mistakes and "whats wrong with us"... stop generalizing and come up with ways to change... not just say "a time for change" with empty meaning.

Here's a start:  stop thinking so damn negative and believe SOME positive can come out of all of this.  Granted, won't happen in our lifetime, but who's to say our children or our grandchildren can't continue.  Drop the first domino bro, let the rest fall.
 
I agree with you 100% we are wrong and stubborn  and we  had made numerous mistakes in the past and present,

Now What do you suggest for us to do? what's your productive plan?

I agree with you based on a thought of constructive criticism ,if you don't provide me with the previous items then I will go ahead and assume that you are just having negative thoughts and hopeless feelings.

Um khobe o eqari
 
I think if you guys have read my latest posts, I've been VERY clear as to what needs to be done.

This goes to Rum and everyone else thats asking me what we should do rather than pointing out negatives.

My suggestions/recommendations are as follows:

1) Properly finance an armed force that will be put in place to secure and bring some sense of security to the Nineveh Planes region.

    1a) This force will report only to one Assyrian organization

    1b) This force will act in defense, but also seek out and retaliate against anyone who has committed a heinous act towards any member of the Assyrian people.

2) We unite under 1 political organization; 1 political voice; 1 political view.

3) We are one country and thus work for one country. We either stick to Iraq, or we contemplate being a part of Kurdistan or forming our own separate country. No matter what direction we take, we make up our mind and stick to that 1 sole opinion (see number 2).

4) The Church of the East removes the term "Assyrian" from their name.

    4a) Church of the East returns its seat to Nineveh and not Hewler in Kurdistan (yes I know it was known as Irbil).

5) All the churches in the state shall be completely removed from any political matters. Church and State are separate institutions.

Finally.....

6) Assyria should be run by one ruler in a similar manner as Scandinavia. Having a King rule the land, yet having a parliament elected and attend to matters concerning the general public. The monarchy would be a symbolic gesture giving the Assyrians 1 sole leader ending any problems of disunity.

---------------------

How do we get to this?

Well, in my opinion, thats next to impossible. We all have different views and different opinions on matters. But what I would think works best is if we have 1 leader stand out amongst the rest. As I've said before, if we can get one person to raise a militia on his/her own and lead them into battle and take back Assyria, our people will support and back this one particular individual.

To me, Assyria will only be formed by force.

Diplomacy does not work in a region where Democracy is looked down upon. Secondly, we're a tri-fold minority. Having said that, Muslims and Kurdish nationalists, refuse to allow us to grow. These are reasons why they attack us and try their best to drive us out. By having this one "militia" or "army" that goes out and aggressively seeks the advancement and protection of the Assyrian cause (including those sympathetic to the Assyrians), we will be able to have these people think twice about us. They will see that we are serious and more attention would be brought towards us. 

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But lets talk a little about things that we can do in reality.

I've been wanting to see an economic forum held anywhere in the world bringing major corporations/businesses from across the globe to invest and create new jobs and economic growth in the Nineveh (Assyrian) regions of Iraq. When the province sees what is going on, and keep in mind, we have to let everyone aware that it is an Assyrian initiative, when referendums come around, the people of Nineveh (Assyrians, Arabs, Yezidis, etc) would be more in tune with us. They will see that Assyrians are seeking the betterment of ANY individual living in her country; regardless of race, gender, or religion.

-----------------

But once again, all of this goes back to point number 2. Unity.

1 ideology. 1 party. 1 people.

Until that day, good luck!
 
Shami said:
If the point of this post is to prove how much we suck, then may I add this is an essential statement and I will tell you why.

We have a saying in Assyrian "La maletle Sherwalokh Chepeh" meaning "Do not fill your pants with rocks"... empty meaningless things that do not alter reality.

1. I personally agree with most of the points made by Anki, and that is because in order to face our problems we have to admit them, hence when someone attends their Alcoholics Anonymous meetings the first thing they must do is admit to themselves that they have a serious issue that they need to deal with.

2. I can sit here, for ages, and tell you about the dreams and all the possible theories I have thought of to reestablish Assyria, but in reality, I do not do anything to make a difference. I sit here and have my wet dreams about a civilization that met its down fall long ago.

3. Am I a dreamer to even think of reestablishing Assyria?

The point of my reply is that, we all know what we should do, we all talk about it, we all have visualized it in our heads. But the most difficult part is application. How do we apply our theories to reality and make Assyrian happen again?
We have to aim young! that is the only solution, our Adult generations are brain washed and they lack national education we start with the kids, ages 5 and up , we teach them and feed them National education, pure nationalism and not the old junk that we been fed(Rlegious and tribal pride) we need to show them where they should stand.

We (the current youth) fill in the hole that our forefathers created for us, which is shotanayota , so I doubt that we can achieve Assyria anytime soon unless we plan a strong seed a pure Assyrian seed for the future, so maybe in 20-30-40 years from now your grandsons will march into Nenwe holding the ASSYRIAN flag ....
 
Those who are working on the ground in Assyria stopped kidding themselves a long time ago and know the game.  They have held guns and defended their people for almost 30 years.  They have worked within the people, grassroots, from the bottom up.

There is a disconnect between reality and fantasy, but I think that lies mainly with some - although not all - in Diaspora exclusively.
 
Shami said:
Very good...

You are suggesting that we must target the younger generation to program them into being Ultra Assyrian Nationalists, I personally do not find anything wrong with that. But, how can we do it? You are stating that you do not want any religious (Churches ie, Nastorian, Chaldean or Jacobite) and tribalism included, which I also agree with.

Targeting the younger generation... humm...

How many secular (not tied to any of the churches states above) instiutions do we have established that target the new generation of Assyrian Children to pre-condition them to this idea of Assyrian Nationalism?

How many people dedicate their life and energy to target this generation?

we can start from there.
Khaya ganakh azizta, yes the Key to the gates of Assyria is the Young Blood!
let me tell you honestly there isn't a one Assyrian institute currently that we can depend on to teach PURE ASSYRIANISM, don't get me wrong please Zowaa is known for it's wonderful Schools and great education systems but I am talking about Diaspora .
We need to forum together groups around the galoota(America,Australia,Europe..etc) and start gathering with little kids to teach them how to be pure Assyrians, so they won't have to face what we had been facing lately.

PURE ASSYRIANISM Folks, pure! so while we will try to over come our Name/church/tribe/B.S problems we can be planning the seed for the future .
Um khobe o eqari
 
waleeta said:
Those who are working on the ground in Assyria stopped kidding themselves a long time ago and know the game.  They have held guns and defended their people for almost 30 years.  They have worked within the people, grassroots, from the bottom up.

There is a disconnect between reality and fantasy, but I think that lies mainly with some - although not all - in Diaspora exclusively.
Yes Khata well said, Our problem is Diaspora , Iraqi Assyrian's (Zowaa : ) found the cure long time ago, but our disease in Diaspora needs a different kind of a cure. We are facing the good ole Church/Name/Tribe problems in addition to our Melting and the struggle to preserve our identity issue.
 
Toward A New Organizing Model

Ramsin Canon
Chicago

Maybe the only thing Assyrians enjoy more than forming new organizations is complaining about them. This is understandable. However, the purpose of organizations is to organize, and the purpose of organizing is power. There is nothing wrong with an organization, properly run, that wants power. And there?s nothing shameful in wanting power. We all want power in one way or another. The problem with so many organizations is that they long ago ceased to organize, preferring instead a so-called ?service model? wherein they chose specific services to provide in exchange for resources they would disperse according to specific needs. Even where our organizations do choose to organize, they do so by trying to assume control of existing resources, rather than trying to build new avenues to greater resources. In other words, everybody bites at the same tiny little pie, instead of making sure there is a steady supply of ingredients to always increase the pie.

Put simply: we as a nation do not organize. Our self-hatred, apathy, and pettiness conspire to convince us, despite all reason (and no real evidence) that Assyrians are somehow uniquely ?un-organizeable?. That is ludicrous.

To organize effectively, you cannot organize simply for political support, or to fight one issue. You have to start with a value. In our case, that is easy. There is essentially one central value:

?There exists a nation called ?Assyrian? and this nation has an explicit right to self- determination.?

This is actually a specific application of a bigger value you must accept:

?Might does not make right: there are such things as inalienable rights for all people.?

If there exists a nation called Assyrians that has a right to self-determination, then we know, too, something else:

?Currently, Assyrians are denied that right.?

We now have a value, and a reality that conflicts with that value.

What is to be done?

Most basically, we can say:

Those individuals who make up the Assyrian Nation must protect that right to self- determination.

Which means, first, we need to attain it. Easier said than done. Of course it is difficult, but it is certainly not impossible. It isn?t impossible because the process of fighting to attain it?organizing?has its own value. So long as we organize, in other words, even if we lose a fight here or there, our strength grows; our social networks grow more resilient and versatile. Our ability to mobilize resources sharpens.

Organizing around a value, rather than an issue, personality, or party, guides your work. When a situation confronts an organization dedicated to organizing around values, you have only one question to ask: ?Does this conform with our values??

If the answer is yes, then you act on it. If not, you ignore it or in some cases oppose it.

Every indigenous group and human rights organization on Earth has a common value:

There is such a nation, X, and that nation has an explicit right of self-determination.

By making common cause with those groups, we are helping ourselves, because we advance this value among the general population. The current resistance of our leadership to engaging the public generally and other groups particularly stems as much from insecurity as a supposed belief that it is a waste of time. It isn?t a waste of time: by simply lending support?a statement, a delegate, a press release?we can amplify our own righteousness and seriousness, as well as increase our visibility and access to valuable governmental, political, financial, and other resources. Wherever minority rights are trampled, our values are implicitly attacked. Wherever violence is used indiscriminately to achieve political aims, our values are threatened. We do not exist in a vacuum, and are not fighting other ?groups? but a broken international system that needs structural changes.

It?s very easy for the current generation in leadership to build organizations with aims to buttress political aspirations in our homeland, and it is easy for people to criticize them. Frankly, given that we exist in Diaspora, it?s a low-risk hobby. These low-risk debating clubs are reinforced by a mindset that is preoccupied with political machinations ?back home.?

This is a betrayal of our brothers and sisters in the Assyrian Nation everywhere. As citizens of foreign nations?particularly in America, which has a foreign policy that affects the domestic policies of nearly every nation on Earth?we have a duty to raise our influences in our new countries. By simply wielding that influence, we make our entire Nation stronger. We are all co-equal in this Nation?Assyrians in the Nineveh Plains are not ?more? Assyrian than Assyrians in Sweden, India, Australia, or America. The tendency to ?rate? Assyrianness by geography is not only a betrayal of ourselves, but of each other: it makes it possible to alternately shrug off responsibility, or inflate self-importance. What is true is that those in the ancestral lands of Assyrians are on the front lines in our fight for survival. Our job is not to interfere, but to understand that by making the Nation strong in one place, our overall strength increases.

Even if we were successful in our efforts to interfere with politics in the homeland and Assyrians won some level of self-determination in Iraq, what would we do then? Retire? Stop? Is that what the Jews did after 1948? To the contrary: that when Diaspora political power became even more vital. Organizing is never finished, because you never have enough power.

There exists a Nation called Assyrian.

Meaning all Assyrians, everywhere. For those who deny their Assyrian-ness one of two things will happen: (a) they will shout loudly and watch as an organization builds power, or (b) they will be attracted to that power and success.

Those who are organizing believe in their values. Those who don?t share those values can be won over, but that is not our purpose; our purpose is to win power. Those deniers will come around, swayed by organizing successes. If they continue to deny even then, why worry about them? Let them wallow in their irrelevance.

People see strength, and make it power by supporting it. People see vacillation and mock it.

Break it down: organizing is the process of arranging like and unlike objects in a manner that allows them to act in concert for their shared interests and values. Again, the purpose of organizing is power; the purpose of power is to enact our values.

But what is the reality on the ground?

The reality is that current leadership, despite sincere best efforts, is outdated, generally ineffective, plagued with ancient and more recent schisms, biases, and positive-feedback models that discourage progress. Partially this is because they are constantly dealing with emergency situations. But the fundamental model?of service organizations attempting to build political power?is wrong.

The idea that high-level maneuvering, like lobbying activities, is sufficient to build power is also wrong. Although necessary for advancing our values, it is by no means sufficient. The Chiefs can agree and sign treaties, but if they don?t have the Indians behind them, it?s just paper.

Assyrians are one Nation with a right to self-determination. We have a duty to advance this value by organizing for political power, and the current organizations are too compromised to accomplish this, and are build around individuals, tribes, clans, and specific social networks. We have to always be organizing?wherever we are, and that process of taking power in the name of that value will naturally help Assyrians ?back home?.

How do you organize?

Constantly. Everything must be seen as an opportunity to take power and grow stronger.

Without Dependence. This organization must be member-run and funded. This means dues-payers who power a fundraising operation.

Without Fear. People?s feelings will get hurt, and some people will fight you out of fear, jealously, or ignorance. Expect it. Is that a reason not to organize?

With Developed Leadership. Leadership is developed, not assigned or appointed. Leadership development is a process whereby individuals are challenged with tasks that require problem solving, cunning, hard work, and confrontation. Those who meet the challenges will naturally move into leadership roles. Those who don?t are still made better by the experience.

With Organizational Discipline. Organizations built around values can demand strict organizational discipline?or loyalty to the organization?because there is no cult of personality. Criticism and debate must be absolutely protected so long as it remains internal and open. The former keeps your enemies from exploiting rifts, and the latter keeps back biting and factionalism to a minimum.

Within a Larger Context. At their core, our values are universal. By isolating ourselves from other groups that share them, we only deny ourselves access to resources and exposure.

With Militancy. Believe in your values not because you should, but because you?ve considered them seriously. Accepting that, believe in yourself and your organization and never shrink from a fight or from a confrontation.

Without Entangling Alliances.
In organizing, there are no permanent friends, only permanent issues. We may work with other groups, institutions, and parties around a specific issue when that cooperation advances our values. But no friend is more valuable than our values.

Perhaps it is impossible?maybe we are, in fact, unorganizeable. But even if that absurd statement is true, all we risk losing is our time. And if that?s too big a sacrifice, then perhaps you were never of use to your nation in the first place.

Ramsin Canon lives and works in Chicago as a political consultant and writer. His writing can be found at TimeOut Chicago, GapersBlock.com, among other publications. He can be reached at RC@gapersblock.com.  Another article by Mr. Canon appears in this issue of Zinda under the Literatus section.
 
Shami said:
Very nice Waleeta, I agree with most of what your brother had to say. Very good article indeed, specifically the parts you highlighted.

Going back to my question: we have the ideas, but ladies and gentlemen why is application so difficult?

Goes back to the post we were talking about regarding the Assyrians of Syria.

We're lazy!

I think another reason is many of us (I know I've said this a few times too) enjoy the lavish life style we have here (at least compared to that of the middle east).

We like to socialize and fill our minds up with entertainment and fun. What other explanation do we have when we see a party or a picnic have 500 or 2000 people, yet a protest demanding our rights draws in 50-100?

There is no more passion towards it. We don't care about it.

As waleeta said, theres a disconnect.

However, I think its a deep one.

What we need to do is go back and see why there is such a disconnect. In my personal opinion (I know I have a lot of those), the reason we had such great nationalists like Naum Faik and David Perley (sorry if I misspelled their names) was because they were a product of what occurs when there is direct oppression towards those people.

Let me explain.

When the Assyrians were struggling with the holocaust, the children affected had seen the problems. Their parents told them their struggles and the hardships. This would naturally generate anger, yet pride at the same time, for what had happened. Pride that they survived. Pride that they were able to maintain their culture and heritage.

This is why those national conventions, prior to the booze and schmooze we have now, were held in good spirit. They were successful not just in terms of monetary, but at spreading the message of Assyrianism and about being patriots.

Sadly (or not), for those Assyrians in the west, they lived a great life. They did not face any direct hardships. Nobody attacked their homes and slaughtered them because of their race. Nobody burned down their churches because of their religion.

We were safe and we were good. So the biproduct of that were children who really did not have a hard life growing up. No first hand experience. Then they had children who said, "well its ok if we marry outside our culture. we're all humans." (typical western mentality). We became democratic. We were so well off that we became guilty and decided "Hell, this is so much better than the middle east. My poor brother/sister/father/mother are sitting back in the middle east. We should bring them here."

So we systematically created our own exodis. We created our own mess.

Meanwhile, the Assyrians who remained, had to continue surviving through opression, murder, harrasement, arrests, etc. My father being one of those who was arrested.

When they flee and head west, they have the patriotism that the first wave of Assyrians had when they first arrived on Plymouth Rock....I mean the west. They had that pride in them. They had the love of their race still buried deep inside their hearts.

Whats my point?

Point is, the "new generation" of Assyrians who were born and raised in the west (mind you not ALL of them) have NO CLUE what it means to be an Assyrian. They have not experienced first hand the hardships faced by the Assyrians back there.

The mentality is simple, if it doesn't affect me, who cares?

Solution?

There really is no solution. Unless someone changes this mentality through forceful measures or if there is a direct attack on ASSYRIANS because they're ASSYRIANS in the WEST (not in Iraq or Syria because we've seen how little that matters) or if the Assyrians in the west are opressed somehow and it affects the majority of us, only then will we see a shift in attitude.

Only then will the Assyrian nationalism grow and survive. Until then, sorry. IT WONT HAPPEN!
 
Atorayet d Kirkuk said:
very nice Article, he nailed it!......

Application is not hard at all what we need is dedication and nationalism to start the fire!

:giggle:

Sorry dude, but I'm not laughing at you, just at the way that was said. I agree that its all we need to do, but the way you said it is like saying "All you need to do is add salt and you'll fix the taste."

THATS the hardest part in the whole equation. THATS the problem with the Assyrians.
 
riza o shourba said:
:giggle:

Sorry dude, but I'm not laughing at you, just at the way that was said. I agree that its all we need to do, but the way you said it is like saying "All you need to do is add salt and you'll fix the taste."

THATS the hardest part in the whole equation. THATS the problem with the Assyrians.
If you go back to my first post, you would notice what I meant, in order for us to get Assyria back Or start the fire ) we have to build up new foundations based on nationalism and dedication.
 
Atorayet d Kirkuk said:
If you go back to my first post, you would notice what I meant, in order for us to get Assyria back Or start the fire ) we have to build up new foundations based on nationalism and dedication.

Totally agree! I think the biggest thing we lack here in the west are institutions to spread Assyrian nationalism amongst the youth. The previous Assyrian generations really didn't leave us with much...at least not in Toronto.
 
riza o shourba said:
Totally agree! I think the biggest thing we lack here in the west are institutions to spread Assyrian nationalism amongst the youth. The previous Assyrian generations really didn't leave us with much...at least not in Toronto.
It's the same thing everywhere Khon
 
Atorayet d Kirkuk said:
It's the same thing everywhere Khon

Believe me dude, I know! Its dispicable and sad.

I still think the only possible solution for the Assyrians is if one man stands up, raises an army, and attacks all those who oppose the single Assyrian ideology.

Yes, that includes eliminating Assyrians detremental to the cause as well as other nationalities. We have a lot of traitors in our community. With this one power, comes fear. Fear that if I squeal or rat someone out, I could be next!

Fear that, if I kill an Assyrian, there will be retribution 10 times that of what we have done.

Imagine, for every 1 Assyrian killed, this group of brave men and women fighting for our freedom, attack and kill 10 people of the ethnicity that attacked us.

Yes some will say this will lead to mass killings like the Shia and Sunni wars, but I mean come on! We've been killed consistantly from the fall of Nineveh and most notably from 1850 - Today at the hands of our "friends" and "neighbours".

I don't care what anyone says, diplomacy will never work!
 
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