Bible, Religion....creation...

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KeKwAnTa_MaRiAn

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do you believe in bible? why?

Mankind, how do you think mankind came to this world, do you take the science approach and believe we evolved or do you take the religious approach and believe God created Adam and Eve?


Bible is stories told by witnesses who had strong faith in God. I believe that, however take current life situations, if something happens in Iraq, by the time people in Canada hear it, the story is been modified more than once and we end up hearing more than one story to a situation which results in not knowing who to believe or what to trust?.so that makes me wonder is Bible 100% fact, or was it modified?

I also believe that mankind evolved and was not created by God; however, God (great power) gave human kind the ability to use their brain to get where we are nowadays!
Take everyday situations, we are coming up with something new and better everyday.


What do u believe?
 
science and creation are not mutually exclusive, check out http://www.icr.org/. here you will see how scientists today are proving creation to be correct and adding legitimacy to the bible.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities?his eternal power and divine nature?have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
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even though this thread should be in the religion forums, i just wanna say that you need to be able to find pitfalls in the bible to criticise it. i can sit down and prove to you that the scriptures are a legitimate source without any contraditction...ofcource this needs to be done at the right place and the right time.
 
Cool topic Kakwanta, nick nik too lol.

Last night I was watching some programme, they were speaking to this Australian archaeologist. Him and a few other people discovered some human remains and stuff but they think it?s a different species of human existing at the same time this modern human species of ours did. They were hobbits or something, like a species of little humans with distinctive features. Anyways, they were saying that if they prove that it is a new species that existed at the same time, they would throw out the old theory of evolution where there is only one line of progression. Thought it was an interesting thought since the Bible mentions the existence of different people, like nationality wise, but maybe it meant species wise too. Anyways these are all just human developed methods of classification. But personally I think the more science progresses, the more they validate what?s written in the Bible. I think it?s possible to have humans that evolved but were created by God. We all evolve, even within our lifetime. It?s not significant evolutionary change offcourse, but we all change and adapt. Why not as a species?

So to answer your question, yes I do believe in the Bible and the reason I do believe in it is because it not only makes sense, but it?s credible and a great formula for spiritual happiness. But on a more deep level, when I read it, I get chills. It has a physical effect on me, which has to come from somewhere! Although some information may have been distorted through translation, the current Bible does reflect very closely to the original so the message is still there. That hasn?t changed!
 

Bible is stories told by witnesses who had strong faith in God. I believe that, however take current life situations, if something happens in Iraq, by the time people in Canada hear it, the story is been modified more than once and we end up hearing more than one story to a situation which results in not knowing who to believe or what to trust?.so that makes me wonder is Bible 100% fact, or was it modified?
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Hi marian, i disagree with u there, cause the creation story was written in genesis and was mentioned a few times later on in the bible. and the first 5 books, this includes genesis, was given to moses from God (if im not mistaken). so i dont think these stories were passed down.

and i also dont agree that we evolved rather that we just continuely add to our knowledge, because God created us in his image, that means, that he created us different then animals. we wouldnt have survived if he had not given us the unique abilities.

we dont have any fur, that means in our earlist stages "before we got evolved" we would've froze to death.

we dont have claws, or any unique defence mechanisms. this means that that any wild animal couldve ate our earliest ancestors before we got "evolved".

So to me, this means that our earliest form of mankind was just as evolved as we are now. With no tools we built pyramids, spactacular cities, hanging gardens of babylon which had plumbing, this was not known to tha ancient world. i think thats pretty amazing!

the most major advancements we made since the ancient world occured after the invention of electricity and the steam engine. but for 4000 years, the world was gradually evolving at a constant paste, and it was evolving in a sense that we just add to our knowledge. no darastic change in our mental structure or our physical form.

and if u look at all animals, their all similar. except for humans, animals dont communicate with one another like the ability of humans, animals dont care for their offsprings like humans, animals dont care for their dead. y didnt another animal evolve into walking upright?

God created us in a way to function as he would, instead he controls the heavens, and we have control of the earth.

I would also like to add, if u follow adam and eves tree line, abraham who was 10 generation after adam, and then noah, who was 10 generations after abraham, and then the flood happened. after the flood, it was just noah, and his three sons (and their wives). The bible also tells which part of the world the decendents of noahs sons took off to. and if u look at the regions off the decendents of shem, for exaple, u will see that they have similar feaures. same thing witht e decendents of ham and the decendents of Japhet.

If we werent created like the creation story, then how could u explain the division of the tounges?
 
I believe in the bible, but not literally. What I mean by that is the bible was written at a different time so sometimes the context doesn?t seem to make sense or it just doesn?t apply to the gentiles. The Old Testament is mostly about God?s covenant with the chosen people (Jews), them turning their backs on God and being punished for it.
The New Testament talks about Jesus? table fellowship, which means gentiles (non-Jews were now included as his people).

It's hard to make sense of the bible because every1 has a different interpretation of what it means.
 
nat2lee said:
I believe in the bible, but not literally. What I mean by that is the bible was written at a different time so sometimes the context doesn?t seem to make sense or it just doesn?t apply to the gentiles. The Old Testament is mostly about God?s covenant with the chosen people (Jews), them turning their backs on God and being punished for it.
The New Testament talks about Jesus? table fellowship, which means gentiles (non-Jews were now included as his people).

It's hard to make sense of the bible because every1 has a different interpretation of what it means.
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Nat, I must correct you on one point here. God's chosen people were the children of Abraham, which doesn't neccesarily mean the Jew's eclusively.

Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."

Mat 3:9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

Rom 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, (7) and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." (8) This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
 
Mat 3:9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.
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John, funny thing is I just read a book (for a class) that talked about that. Maybe I'm using the wrong word, but basically the 12 tribes of Judea were the chosen people. I do agree that God loves the gentiles as much as the children of Abraham, but his original chosen people were the 12 tribes.......God later realized that they were no better than the gentiles.

Thanks for the corrections :)





This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
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You R right
 
A few points:

1. The bible is apparently divine inspiration, from which the people at the time either witnessed or experienced. While I'm not questioning the infallibility of an apparent God, I am questioning the reliability of human record, and alteration that may have occured. We are very much indeed, fallible, prone to error, and things were probably mistaken, confused or exaggerated. Much that transpired were via word of mouth also.

2. There is the issue of state of mind. Superstition too. It was not uncommon to worship the sun, the moon and the stars back then. Pagan culture was rife, and people readilly paid homage to objects that can now be scientifically explained and broken down to form some kind of metaphysical explaination. The problem (or should I say mystery/enigma) with the concept of an all-powerful God, a perfect being, an 'unmoved-mover' is that one cannot explain him, one can find no evidence or proof. Sense and rationality are thrown out the window in this instance, as all becomes revealed after you die.

3. One must also remember that all people need something to believe in, in order to be progressive beings, to give their life a spiritual substance. God provides one with an explaination after the journey of life has ended. You either go heaven or to hell. This eases fear. Fear being an essential part of our humanity. A part that can be manipulated and controlled given the correct.. method?

4th and finallly.. God is meant to be all-knowing, omniscient and omni-potent. If this is the case, God would exist outside of time, becomming extra-temporal (as he knows everything that has transpired, is transpiring, and will transpire). If so, what is the purpose of existing under the banner of free-will? If God knows what we shall do, our will has been exposed and is not essentially free. Life becomes meaningless as he already knows who is morally virtuous and who is going to rot in the pits of hell for all eternity. :)

Ultimately, all faith is blind, the story of creation is akin to a pagan myth in my mind. If the Kingdom of God exists, it exists inside of us, the KoG is the ability to be morally right and true, towards fellow man, and mother nature.

Regards.

MJaY :mrgreen:
 
Bible, in my opinion, is extracted from ancient tales of primitive men living in an early time of history. The Sumerians tried explaining the world through tales of creation and pre-existence chaos. It is shockingly very similar to what is found in the Bible and Quran.

As far as God, as the supreme being, it seems this is more of a human reaction to life rather than a logical deductive argument. It is a result of our familiar judgements about simple objects in this life, which we apply to other unexplained phenomenon in the universe.
 
MJaY said:
A few points:

1. The bible is apparently divine inspiration, from which the people at the time either witnessed or experienced. While I'm not questioning the infallibility of an apparent God, I am questioning the reliability of human record, and alteration that may have occured. We are very much indeed, fallible, prone to error, and things were probably mistaken, confused or exaggerated. Much that transpired were via word of mouth also.

2. There is the issue of state of mind. Superstition too. It was not uncommon to worship the sun, the moon and the stars back then. Pagan culture was rife, and people readilly paid homage to objects that can now be scientifically explained and broken down to form some kind of metaphysical explaination. The problem (or should I say mystery/enigma) with the concept of an all-powerful God, a perfect being, an 'unmoved-mover' is that one cannot explain him, one can find no evidence or proof. Sense and rationality are thrown out the window in this instance, as all becomes revealed after you die.

3. One must also remember that all people need something to believe in, in order to be progressive beings, to give their life a spiritual substance. God provides one with an explaination after the journey of life has ended. You either go heaven or to hell. This eases fear. Fear being an essential part of our humanity. A part that can be manipulated and controlled given the correct.. method?

4th and finallly.. God is meant to be all-knowing, omniscient and omni-potent. If this is the case, God would exist outside of time, becomming extra-temporal (as he knows everything that has transpired, is transpiring, and will transpire). If so, what is the purpose of existing under the banner of free-will? If God knows what we shall do, our will has been exposed and is not essentially free. Life becomes meaningless as he already knows who is morally virtuous and who is going to rot in the pits of hell for all eternity. :)

Ultimately, all faith is blind, the story of creation is akin to a pagan myth in my mind. If the Kingdom of God exists, it exists inside of us, the KoG is the ability to be morally right and true, towards fellow man, and mother nature.

Regards.

MJaY :mrgreen:
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Mjay, outstanding post!

On point #1, if you believe that God is an all-knowing, all-powerful God, then you must also believe that God had a purpose in giving us the Bible and that He would preserve it for us. That being said, no major Christian denomination holds that the Bible we have today has been preserved in it's infallible state, but rather believe that the Bible as it was originally written was infallible. You can look at the Catholic Catechism, the Westminster Confessional, and the London Baptist Confession (1689) and all make the same sort of statement.

On point #4. I do not believe in free-will, but that does not neccesarily directly lead to fatalism. The fact of the matter is that God has indeed ordained every single action, and that God does indeed exist outside of time. That being said, at the same time, our decisions are somehow still real and have consequences. I give you this secular analogy to ponder:

In the William Shakespeare play MacBeth, MacBeth kills King Duncan. Now, I ask you, who killed King Duncan?? Was it MacBeth? or was it Shakespeare? The answer must be both. You can not accurately say that it was one or the other exclusively. Shakespeare is the primary cause, while MacBeth was the secondary cause of King Duncan's death. Such is much the same with God and His creation. God is the primary cause of all, and the tools He uses to carry out His purpose are the secondary cause.

Now, that being said, I too have wondered why God didn't simply redeem those that He chose in His sovereignty instead of making this process neccesary, but then the thought occured to me again. God exists outside of time, therefore, our earthly lives are nothing to Him and are only for our benefit or doom.

Again, wonderful post.
 
Thank you, the feedback was much appreciated, and your points were quite valid also.

Just one quick thought to be shared:

"our earthly lives are nothing to Him"

Our earthly lives are all that we possess, and if this means nothing to him, he is undeserving of our worship and adoration. In general I view all major religion as codes of law and ways of life. There is nothing striking to me as such, in terms of mysticism and spirituality.
 
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