Assyrian Church of the East and Old Calendar move towards unity

C

Concerned Assyrian

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The Assyrian Church of the East and the Old Calendar group led by His Holiness Mar Addai II have moved closer toward the rectification of the 41-year schism of the Church of the East. The current division consists of the Assyrian Church of the East, under the leadership of His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV following the Gregorian calendar and the followers of His Holiness Mar Addai II as the term ?Old Calendar? suggests, following the Julian calendar. Of course, the change from the Eastern to Western ecclesial calendars was not instituted by His Holiness Mar Dinkha but by the late Catholicos Patriarch, His Holiness Mar Eshai Shimun XXIII in 1964.

The Holy Synod of the Assyrian Church of the East wrote to the Holy Synod of the Old Calendar group on the 15th of November 2005 inviting them to partake in a join-Synod in order to bring about unity to the Church. On the 22nd of January 2006 Mar Addai II replied to the Assyrian Church of the East and announced that it would respond in full to the latter?s proposal following the convocation of the Old Calendar?s Holy Synod. This took place late last month, from the 27th of April to the 2nd of May 2009 and it has today been reported that on the 5th of May the Old Calendar has written to His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV and agreed to the Assyrian Church of the East?s suggestion of a joint-Holy Synod to determine how best to bring about unity to the Church after many decades of animosity and division. It is reported that the meeting will take place at Easter 2010 in Iraq (according to the Old Calendar?s suggestion). It is important to note that in the Old Calendar Synod they decreed a referendum to take place in every Parish of their church to determine whether its members would consent to changing the celebration of Christmas to the 25th of December, the Gregorian calendar. It is thought that this move was designed to cushon the blow to Old Calendar die-hards who may show opposition to a change of calendars, ahead of a possible unity.

It is worthy of noting that this is not the first attempt at unity. In fact in 1980 Mar Dinkha IV offered Mar Addai II the role of vice-patriarch in a reunited Church. Other attempts have also been made whereby a dual-Patriarchal system would be implemented with Mar Dinkha IV as Patriarch of the West and Mar Addai II as Patriarch of the East until the demise of one of the Patriarchs. This was not successful either.

What is most important about this recent development is that an actual invitation to a joint-Holy Synod has been offered and the suggestion of the Assyrian Church of the East has been accepted. The momentous unity of two branches of one church would have great implications on both a religious and national level for the Assyrian people.

Let us hope that this time, instead of another division, we witness an act of healing and reunion. This would be a sweet victory for unity.

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Can we just destroy all these entities and start fresh? All 6 billion of them with 6 billion different ulterior motives. They're driving me crazy.
 
How much members have the Assyrian church of the east, and how much the old church of the east?

and how much in iraq, both ?
 
Concerned Assyrian said:
:blink:
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That church matters affect our nationalism stance.  We should know better.  We point the finger at Chaldeans, yet we can't be united ourselves.

I'll be damned if I teach that to my kids.  Nationalism starts at home, with what the parents teach.  And in my house, nationalism won't mention a word about church or Jesus.
 
jonadona said:
That church matters affect our nationalism stance.  We should know better.  We point the finger at Chaldeans, yet we can't be united ourselves.

I'll be damned if I teach that to my kids.  Nationalism starts at home, with what the parents teach.  And in my house, nationalism won't mention a word about church or Jesus.
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I don?t see faith and national consciousness as being the antithesis of each other. The church has given generations of its adherents a sense of national thought and has instilled a sense of patriotism in them whereby their national identity can no longer be eroded; not by a foreign power, not by a bishop nor by a revisionist.

Yes perhaps some do not favour bishops interfering in the political affairs of the nation but they have a role to play on many levels and have done so, at least for some Assyrians, in an exemplary manner. Perhaps the church?s involvement in national affairs is not the result of unwanted meddling; maybe it is that our people have not bothered to instill nationalistic thought in their children. 

The Tyari thing which I discussed above is less about church and state and more about tribal rivalry and how it was and still is used as a tool of division.

This unity (and let us fervently hope that it occurs in one form or another) will be an unrivaled leap for the Assyrian nation.

You know what troubles me though? Had a thread been posted about Mar Bawai et al. there would have been countless replies and posts with opinions flowing freely. Instead, here is posted a thread about a ray of hope for this nation and the replies are few and far between. One individual has even posted in opposition of the end of a 41-year division merely on the basis of a meeting's location.  :ROFLMAO:

 
When nationalism becomes rooted in a culture of a church, the church will grow weaker, as we have seen the last century.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
@ CA watch out what you are seeing about the Tyari tribe, cause I might send few over with a feather on their had :D.


Actually that seems to be a good step towards a unity within the members of those two Churches. But I am asking myself what motovation drove them in taking such a path?....

 
jonadona said:
That's really sad.
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Your neglecting the importance of religion within our nation. We are an eastern nation, where religion does go hand-in-hand with the nation. As much as we non-religious western-minded people can't stand the fact, its a reality.
 
chaldean said:
Your neglecting the importance of religion within our nation. We are an eastern nation, where religion does go hand-in-hand with the nation. As much as we non-religious western-minded people can't stand the fact, its a reality.
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The reality will destroy the church.

And if Turks and Kurds can do it to the extend that they have, I doubt we are unable to.  Actually, it is inevitable. 
 
waleeta said:
The reality will destroy the church.

And if Turks and Kurds can do it to the extend that they have, I doubt we are unable to.  Actually, it is inevitable. 
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It happened to the two nations you mentioned because their nationality was threatened. The percecution of our people is mostly a religious one, thus strenthing religion among our people.
 
How was Turkish nationality threatened?

Ours was threatened too, under Iraqi nationalist and then Ba'athist rule, hence why nationalism became such a driver for us the last century.

Our ethnicity will only be oppressed more and more, most especially by Kurds, as Arabs have done the last few decades. As I said, it is inevitable.
 
waleeta said:
How was Turkish nationality threatened?
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Turkey was being invaded by all sides from a handful of different nations during WWI.


Ours was threatened too, under Iraqi nationalist and then Ba'athist rule, hence why nationalism became such a driver for us the last century.

Our ethnicity will only be oppressed more and more, most especially by Kurds, as Arabs have done the last few decades. As I said, it is inevitable.
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True, but the oppresion has been translated within our people as a threat to their religious identity, not national. Hense, Churches are continueing to get stronger within our community.
 
chaldean said:
Turkey was being invaded by all sides from a handful of different nations during WWI.
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As are Assyrians now, and were then - our earliest activists at the turn of the last century weren't advocating only for religious freedom, but acknowledgment of our distinct ethnic identity.


chaldean said:
True, but the oppresion has been translated within our people as a threat to their religious identity, not national. Hense, Churches are continueing to get stronger within our community.
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If that were true, we would have no nationalist movement whatsoever.  And as I said - no one is misinterpreting Kurdish oppression as religious persecution, and no one misinterpreted the Ba'athists the same way.  This is why the Chaldean synod is asking to be known also as a distinct ethnic group, and not for a distinct religious group.  We have our religious freedom.

Which, again, why the backlash against the churches is inevitable.

 
Barwarneta said:
im not changing anything i like 7'byarkha way. the tyarayee wont change and thats a sure thing.
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Well with respect it is not up to you khati. Your church is in the process of changing the date of Christmas to the 25th.

Assyrian Christianity does not mean every tribe having their own church. Regardless of whether you are Tyari or Tkhuma, Barwar or Bhotan, Urmi or Tur Abdin, we are all Assyrians.

The unity of our churches is correcting a historical travesty.
 
Barwarneta said:
i really dont care about my church or any church all i care about is knowing that i will do christmas on the 7th like i have always done and im not changing just because " the qashe or whatever they call them selfs"  these days are telling us to.
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I don't blame you.  Everything's cheaper after the 25th.  Maybe you guys are onto something.
 
This is a good step, I come from a home that celebrates the 25th, but originally our Church used to celebrate the 7th so it would be nice to go back to its roots, on the other hand, the 25th is more common now days so it really should not matter what date people celebrate it, in the end of the day it's just a friggin day, and it kind of makes some people quite backward when they complain about the date they're celebrating Christmas on, as far as I'm concerned, there's no evidence on which date is the proper one, so who cares?

The other thing that makes 25th more sense is because the Chaldean Church also celebrates it on that day, this makes the unity with them easier, now I understand the Syriac Orthodox does it on the 7th, but the dialect barrier between ACOE and Syriac Orthodox makes it a little harder, I know the younger generation does not look at that, but the Churches do as there's the same dialect between Chaldean Church, Assyrian Church of the East, and the Ancient Church of the East, so perhaps there might be a bigger future union along with the Chaldean Church, of course they would have to drop Rome and build on our independence, but I don't see that happening with the current Patriarch as he's a Cardinal and all.
 
Concerned Assyrian said:
Well with respect it is not up to you khati. Your church is in the process of changing the date of Christmas to the 25th.

Assyrian Christianity does not mean every tribe having their own church. Regardless of whether you are Tyari or Tkhuma, Barwar or Bhotan, Urmi or Tur Abdin, we are all Assyrians.

The unity of our churches is correcting a historical travesty.
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Amen! We are all Assyrian and all m'hoomneh; our church should be united. Murya menteh this will be a strengthening force for our milat. Who cares what date we celebrate Christmas. I mean really, what difference does it make? We are celebrating the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. It should not be a cause for division, but for bringing us closer together as khonwateh oo khatwateh'et umta oo eeta.

Murya barikhlan!  :)
 
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