Any non-religious Assyrians here?

[Cascade]

There is this Facebook page called Assyrian Agnostics and Atheists (AAA) and it had around 40+ users, which is not much sadly. I just found it very hard to believe that there were other Assyrians who are Irreligious - like myself. 

When I was a Christian, I used to be very pressured with the bible stuff. I just doubted a lot of biblical events, like the flood, miracles, resurrections, talking snakes/donkeys, etc.  It wasn't something possible to believe in. And the doubting thing was around two years ago, before I become an Agnostic.

I was a pretty strong, bible-believing Christian. I found high interest in Catholicism in my early teen years, but in the latter years I thought it was too complex and strict, so I turned to Protestantism because they seemed more of a happy, outgoing group. Oh, I never really liked our Assyrian church as it was boring, depressing and daunting in experience.

When I was a 'Protestant' I was quite happy and entertained in their churches, but then I was like "sure, they may be fun, but the bible?". I had an interest in evolution - such as astronomy, geology, biology, etc. And most of them just went against the bible's teachings. I just found evolution to be more understandable or real, because it had EVIDENCE and sources everywhere - which is something the bible lacked.

Right now I feel more free and open minded; I don't need to be scared of spirits, the devil and other superstitious things the bible has wrought.

Are you, or do you know any Assyrian who is, an Agnostic/Atheist?

 

[the_dave]

We have some here on Assyrianvoice...
and i know a few a lot in real life...

 

[Hanuni]

I'm Christian but not religious,.

 

[mrzurnaci]

bible and science don't really conflict, unless you count the old testament because that's based on plagiarized Assyrian mythology.

 

[gilbert]

There is this Facebook page called Assyrian Agnostics and Atheists (AAA) and it had around 40+ users, which is not much sadly. I just found it very hard to believe that there were other Assyrians who are Irreligious - like myself.   

When I was a Christian, I used to be very pressured with the bible stuff. I just doubted a lot of biblical events like the flood, miracles, resurrections, talking snakes/donkeys, etc.  :blink: It wasn't something possible to believe in. And the doubting thing was around two years ago, before I become an Agnostic.

:angelnot: I was a pretty strong, bible-believing Christian. I found high interest in Catholicism in my early teen years, but in the latter years I thought it was too complex and strict, so I turned to Protestantism because they seemed more of a happy, outgoing group. Oh, I never really liked our Assyrian church as it boring, depressing and daunting experience - it also had too many gossipers, sad people and hypocrites.

When I was a Protestant I was quite happy and entertained in their churches, but then I was like "sure, Protestantism may be fun, but the bible?". I had an interest with evolution - such as astronomy, geology, biology, etc. And most of them just went against the bible's teachings. I just found evolution to make more sense because it had EVIDENCE and sources everywhere - which is something the bible lacked.

Right now I feel more free and open minded; I don't need to be scared of spirits, the devil and other superstitious things the bible has wrought.

Are you, or do you know any Assyrian who is, an Agnostic/Atheist?

I haven't posted here in a long time, was really bored, then came to these forums to find this post. This is worth posting again.

As for your question, yes there were some non-believers on these forums as the_dave mentioned. Not sure how many are active nowadays. I'm one of those heathens/infidels who don't believe. My brother is one as well. He used to post here under the name, ultoma. Pretty sure you will see our posts here if you end up reading this section of the forum.

 

[gilbert]

bible and science don't really conflict, unless you count the old testament because that's based on plagiarized Assyrian mythology.

The new testament is full of scientific evidence?

I'm Christian but not religious,.

Sense, this doesn't make.

Christianity is a religion. How can you not be religious? If you are saying you don't practice it, then you are not a christian. You can't just turn it on and off every sunday or holiday, you're cheating.

 

[mrzurnaci]

The new testament is full of scientific evidence?

yes Jesus turned water into wine by squeezing grapes into the water, which was actually grape juice. it's not hard to know how lol
jesus was resurrected because he simply survived? afer being passed out in a short coma?

I wonder if you guys know that taking the bible too literal and not focusing on it's morals kills the point that the bible was produced for....

 

[gilbert]

yes Jesus turned water into wine by squeezing grapes into the water, which was actually grape juice. it's not hard to know how lol
jesus was resurrected because he simply survived? afer being passed out in a short coma?

These are the claims, not the evidence. Where is the evidence?

I wonder if you guys know that taking the bible too literal and not focusing on it's morals kills the point that the bible was produced for....

Where did you get this information that it's not to be taken literally and what it's real purpose is? How does one know how literally it should be taken?

 

[mrzurnaci]

These are the claims, not the evidence. Where is the evidence?


Where did you get this information that it's not to be taken literally and what it's real purpose is? How does one know how literally it should be taken?

how do you want me to get evidence? I don't have a time machine, and of the many sources about Jesus historically, there's 'too much of a spectrum' between their inerrancy and their errancy

you know it's taken literally if there's witch burnings, Ancient Assyrians/Babylonians committed witch hunts but only if it was evil magic because Hammurabi passed a law against evil magics, and interestingly enough,

If a man has put a spell upon another man and it is not justified, he upon whom the spell is laid shall go to the holy river; into the holy river shall he plunge. If the holy river overcome him and he is drowned, the man who put the spell upon him shall take possession of his house. If the holy river declares him innocent and he remains unharmed the man who laid the spell shall be put to death. He that plunged into the river shall take possession of the house of him who laid the spell upon him. -Code of Hammurabi

 

[gilbert]

how do you want me to get evidence? I don't have a time machine, and of the many sources about Jesus historically, there's 'too much of a spectrum' between their inerrancy and their errancy

Wouldn't you think that that'd be a good reason to not treat jesus as a fact? Please don't deny this. We both know this when you try to talk to jesus, such as prayer.

Second, there is no evidence for it. That's the problem. You don't have it, nobody has it. Everyone brings their beliefs to the table, not evidence. If you are trying to figure out if something is a fact, it needs to be testable. But how do you test god, you might ask? If we go by how the bible describes god as a supernatural being, then this god does not exist simply because anything that exists in our universe is natural. Even if a powerful being does exist somewhere in the universe, that being is natural, not supernatural. So therefore, the god of the bible does not exist. That goes for all the other religions too.

you know it's taken literally if there's witch burnings, Ancient Assyrians/Babylonians committed witch hunts but only if it was evil magic because Hammurabi passed a law against evil magics, and interestingly enough,

This is arbitrary. These are your rules on how YOU determine what is literal and what isn't. I asked how does one figure what should be taken literal and what shouldn't. You can't give me an answer the people will disagree on. You said, "I wonder if you guys know that taking the bible too literal and not focusing on it's morals kills the point that the bible was produced for....". This is your opinion. But you are stating it like its a fact that everyone knows and have no disagreements on.

 

[mrzurnaci]

Wouldn't you think that that'd be a good reason to not treat jesus as a fact? Please don't deny this. We both know this when you try to talk to jesus, such as prayer.

Second, there is no evidence for it. That's the problem. You don't have it, nobody has it. Everyone brings their beliefs to the table, not evidence. If you are trying to figure out if something is a fact, it needs to be testable. But how do you test god, you might ask? If we go by how the bible describes god as a supernatural being, then this god does not exist simply because anything that exists in our universe is natural. Even if a powerful being does exist somewhere in the universe, that being is natural, not supernatural. So therefore, the god of the bible does not exist. That goes for all the other religions too.

This is arbitrary. These are your rules on how YOU determine what is literal and what isn't. I asked how does one figure what should be taken literal and what shouldn't. You can't give me an answer the people will disagree on. You said, "I wonder if you guys know that taking the bible too literal and not focusing on it's morals kills the point that the bible was produced for....". This is your opinion. But you are stating it like its a fact that everyone knows and have no disagreements on.

if you know there is no evidence, then why dont YOU look for the evidence yourself. No if something is a fact (or law) then every test will be the same result.
don't give me that bull that a theory is a law

2nd I think we can all agree that witch hunts taking place is INDEED taking the bible too literally.

 

[Unity]

Hey gilbert, if you ignore the Bible, then can you ignore secular historians?

Let me address these things about Christians:
 
- Christians are not obligated to be religious.
But once they become religious; they go with their religious traditions and they forget about God (thinking they are worshiping Him). Now this is true and many Assyrians (especially old men and women) do these things.
I myself am not religious at all. In fact I avoid every kind of ritual and nonsense like that because simply it is not Biblical.  

- Christians do not have to participate in rituals, because simply thats not Biblical (but unfortunately many do).  

- The Bible is true because it predicted things that had not happened such as:

the re-establishment of modern Israel (Ezekiel 36:11 and Zechariah 8:7-8 ) and the fall of Assyria (Zechariah 10:11 and Zephaniah 2:13 ).

Zechariah 2:13 was written in 638 BC and the Assyrian empire collapsed in 612 BC.
So, basically this was foretold 26 years before it happened.

- The Bible (especially the New Testament) is the most accurate and verifiable document among other books of antiquity (with 24000+ ancient manuscripts). Homer's Iliad (~645 manuscripts) comes second in terms of number of manuscript evidence and textual consistency.
The Old Testament has the dead sea scrolls, the Masoretic text, the Aramaic Targums and other manuscript evidence.  

The existence of Jesus Christ:

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (AD 61-113), or Pliny the Younger, was the governor of Bithynia (AD 112) and a Roman senator. He wrote to emperor Trajan asking for guidance on how he should treat the Christians in his province.

Reference To Jesus Christ:
Christians were "meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do wicked deeds, never commit fraud, theft, adultery, not to lie nor to deny a trust. . . " - Epistles X96

Conclusion
This reference reveals several key things:  
  1) Jesus was worshipped as a god.
  2) Christians met on a fixed day of the week.
  3) The meeting occurred before sunrise.
  4) They sang songs to Christ.
  5) Christians were committed to holy behavior.

Lucian of Samosata lived A.D. 120-180.

Reference To Jesus Christ
The Christians. . . worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced this new cult, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains their contempt for death and self devotion . . . their lawgiver [taught] they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take on faith . . . - The Passing Peregrinus

Conclusion
This reference reveals several key things:  
  1) Christians worshipped Jesus.
  2) Jesus was crucified for what he taught.
  3) Jesus started Christianity.
  4) Jesus' disciples believed Jesus' teachings.
  5) Early Christians taught that when one was converted he or she had eternal life.
  6) They lived by faith - they believed Jesus.

Mara Bar-Serapion [I think awa nasha dedan ille lol] was a Syrian who wrote about Jesus Christ sometime around A.D. 73. He left a legacy manuscript to his son Serapion. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum.

Reference To Jesus Christ:
What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?. . . after that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men. . . the wise king. . . lived on in the teachings he enacted. - British Museum, Syriac Manuscript, Additional 14,658

Conclusion
This reference reveals several key things:  
  1) Jesus was regarded as a wise king.
  2) Jesus was murdered.
  3) Jesus' teachings lived on.

Flavius Josephus (AD 37-100), was born into a priestly Jewish family. He was a Pharisee and a historian for the Roman empire. He wrote several famous works, among them are: Antiquities of the Jews and the Wars of the Jews. Historians say Josephus was not a Christian.

Reference To Jesus Christ:
Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was a doer of surprising feats - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.* - Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18.3.3

Josephus bears witness to John as having been a baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put to death Christ, who was a prophet . . . - Origen, Origen Against Celsus 1.47.

Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify to this in his writings, where he says, ". . . For the Jews slew him, although he was a most just man - Eusebius. Church History of Eusebius. ii.23, see footnote [2]

Conclusion
This reference reveals several key things:  
  1) Jesus was known as a wise man and was highly regarded.
  2) Apparently Josephus is referring to Jesus' miracles.
  3) Jesus was a teacher of truth for many Jews and Gentiles.
  4) Jesus was killed on a cross by Pontius Pilate.
  5) Jesus appeared alive the third day after being killed.
  6) Predictions by the prophets came true in Christ.
  7) Jesus is the Christ or Messiah.

As you can see above, historians wrote about the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
So should I rely on your way of thinking, or the evidence and testimonies of the people who lived during the time of Jesus?
I think Atheists do not want believe in God because they have no sense of responsibility. If they believe in God, they will feel obligated to follow His commandments. So I think responsibility is the problem.

All the best:
Sargon :wavetowel:

 

[mrzurnaci]

Hey gilbert, if you ignore the Bible, then can you ignore secular historians?

Let me address these things about Christians:
 
- Christians are not obligated to be religious.
But once they become religious; they go with their religious traditions and they forget about God (thinking they are worshiping Him). Now this is true and many Assyrians (especially old men and women) do these things.
I myself am not religious at all. In fact I avoid every kind of ritual and nonsense like that because simply it is not Biblical.  

- Christians do not have to participate in rituals, because simply thats not Biblical (but unfortunately many do).  

- The Bible is true because it predicted things that had not happened such as:

the re-establishment of modern Israel (Ezekiel 36:11 and Zechariah 8:7-8 ) and the fall of Assyria (Zechariah 10:11 and Zephaniah 2:13 ).

Zechariah 2:13 was written in 638 BC and the Assyrian empire collapsed in 612 BC.
So, basically this was foretold 26 years before it happened.

633 B.C. - Death of Ashurbanipal, Assyria severely weakened by revolts and war with Elam resulting in significant loss of Assyrian manpower

so Assyria was already severely weak, even I could've predicted it fall.

 

[davidb]

I haven't posted here in a long time, was really bored, then came to these forums to find this post. This is worth posting again.

As for your question, yes there were some non-believers on these forums as the_dave mentioned. Not sure how many are active nowadays. I'm one of those heathens/infidels who don't believe. My brother is one as well. He used to post here under the name, ultoma. Pretty sure you will see our posts here if you end up reading this section of the forum.

Do you gain any satisfaction in continuously getting yourself involved in religious discussions? It would be fine if you actually did post through out other sections in the forum, and made other contributions, but you don't. You're not going to change peoples perception on religion around these parts..

 

[shekwanta]

yes Jesus turned water into wine by squeezing grapes into the water, which was actually grape juice. it's not hard to know how lol
jesus was resurrected because he simply survived? afer being passed out in a short coma?

I wonder if you guys know that taking the bible too literal and not focusing on it's morals kills the point that the bible was produced for....

WHATTTTTTT!!!!!!!! :crazy:  jesus DID NOT squeeze grapes into the water! 
OMG!!!







ive been hearing from lots of people that they r "loosing" their faith, or stop believing saying that its toooo hard "considering to the real world"  its hard to believe and it doesnt work,,, i just think they r weak!


he DIEEEEEEEEEED for us! he died for us!......honestly i would never die for anybody! (see what i mean!)

 

[AssyrianRoyalty]

Atheist Assyrians?
That's an oxymoron.


Our ancestors trekked in the desert barefoot, kicked out of their villages during the Genocide, dying on the sides of roads. Why? Because of their Assyrian ethnicity + Christian religion. BOTH are linked to our identity. All ancient peoples were pagan, so I'm not buying that bullcrap about how our ancestors weren't Christian. Well Duh. Jesus came to demolish pagan worship.

If it was up to you non-Christian Assyrians, we would be Muslim and speaking Arabic, completely cut off from our Assyrian culture. This site most likely would not be in existence, among other things...

Jesus spoke OUR language! You guys need help...I'll pray.

 

[Unity]

633 B.C. - Death of Ashurbanipal, Assyria severely weakened by revolts and war with Elam resulting in significant loss of Assyrian manpower

so Assyria was already severely weak, even I could've predicted it fall.

The Byzantine Empire was weakened by the Ottoman Empire during the 18th century.
The Greeks revolted against their oppressors and they were successful.
There are times when empires become weak (sometimes they hit rock bottom just like the Greeks) and once they have the chance, they fight back.
So I thing this argument is not strong enough.
Besides, how would anyone answer the re-establishment of modern Israel? 

 

[mrzurnaci]

The Byzantine Empire was weakened by the Ottoman Empire during the 18th century.
The Greeks revolted against their oppressors and they were successful.
There are times when empires become weak (sometimes they hit rock bottom just like the Greeks) and once they have the chance, they fight back.
So I thing this argument is not strong enough.
Besides, how would anyone answer the re-establishment of modern Israel? 

how about the modern re-establishment of Assyria? i dont see that.

 

[AlexSuryoyo]

how about the modern re-establishment of Assyria? i dont see that.

Lool good one, we have been waiting for 2500 years and no assyria back 

 

[Unity]

how about the modern re-establishment of Assyria? i dont see that.

Did the Jews get their land back or not?
They worked very hard, they got their state and they deserve it.
I think if all Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriacs were united we would have had our land back just like the Jews. But our situation is very unique and foolish.
Assyrians discriminate against Chaldeans, Syriacs and vice versa.
We even discriminate against our own people from different tribes, villages and denominations. This is foolish, dont you agree?
We need to work hard more than the Jews for sure.
Back to the topic, Did the Old Testament predict that the Jews would scatter around the world for many years and get their land back? Did it happen? We may be next if we all work together.

 

[Unity]

Lool good one, we have been waiting for 2500 years and no assyria back 

Yes that's true, we've been waiting for 2500 years. That is the problem, we were waiting instead of acting. Do you understand what I mean?
Look at my previous post for more details.
BTW I like your signature, may I use it as my new signature?

 

[mrzurnaci]

Did the Jews get their land back or not?
They worked very hard, they got their state and they deserve it.
I think if all Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriacs were united we would have had our land back just like the Jews. But our situation is very unique and foolish.
Assyrians discriminate against Chaldeans, Syriacs and vice versa.
We even discriminate against our own people from different tribes, villages and denominations. This is foolish, dont you agree?
We need to work hard more than the Jews for sure.
Back to the topic, Did the Old Testament predict that the Jews would scatter around the world for many years and get their land back? Did it happen? We may be next if we all work together.

we went through 2 genocides, and we were good christians for centuries. Now our youth are turning into sinful, s3xual psychos killing each other over drugs, I say we finally deserve a country.

 

[shekwanta]

Lool good one, we have been waiting for 2500 years and no assyria back 

lol, i think we are gonna wait for another 2500 years!


no doubt!

 

[shekwanta]

Atheist Assyrians?
That's an oxymoron.


Our ancestors trekked in the desert barefoot, kicked out of their villages during the Genocide, dying on the sides of roads. Why? Because of their Assyrian ethnicity + Christian religion. BOTH are linked to our identity. All ancient peoples were pagan, so I'm not buying that bullcrap about how our ancestors weren't Christian. Well Duh. Jesus came to demolish pagan worship.

If it was up to you non-Christian Assyrians, we would be Muslim and speaking Arabic, completely cut off from our Assyrian culture. This site most likely would not be in existence, among other things...

Jesus spoke OUR language! You guys need help...I'll pray.

EXACTLY!!
100%  true!


u just said whats on my mind!, never change the way u think! perfect! (and am not being sarcastic!)...thats 100% TRUE!

 

[shekwanta]

we went through 2 genocides, and we were good christians for centuries. Now our youth are turning into sinful, s3xual psychos killing each other over drugs, I say we finally deserve a country.

WOO!..(psychos killing)  thats scares me! :blink: :baby: 
i always thought that assyrian are the best ppl on earth!, i thought they didnt kill, they didnt lie, they didnt steal, they didnt do anything, but being pure nice gentle!...but now after seeing this, i regret on everything i thought! :blush2:


we do deserve a country! (everybody has got their own!, why not us!)...i think of us more like gypsies,  u know what am sayin?! :blink: