Author Topic: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna  (Read 5216 times)

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Offline ASHOOR

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Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« on: January 16, 2012, 11:38:20 AM »
I didn't see this coming. Just reading on Ankawa that there is an issue brewing between Emmanouel Daly and the Chaldean church in Iraq and Younadam Kanna. Well, from what I am reading, the former is calling on Younadam Kanna and saying that 'he doesn't represent Christians in Iraq, he only represents himself.." . He went on to say that "Mr. Kanna has always tried to quash and marginalize the Chaldean people and their culture and history..." - which to me is b.s. Why would Zowaa go through the trouble of coming with the new combined name 'ChaldoAssyrian' at the expense of the original name 'Assyrian' if Mr.Kanna was so against the Chaldean name?

This all comes after the Iraqi government decided to replace the president of the 'Office of Christian endowments' in Iraq, something which the Chaldean church took issues with and accused Mr.Kanna of being behind it, given his influence in the Iraqi government.

They have now (the church) threatened to withdraw from this Christian coalition and boycott it.

The new president of the 'Office of Christian endowments' in Iraq, who himself is a Chaldean, has stated that his appointment came with the official blessing of the Chaldean patriarch and that it is not meant to marginalize Chaldeans (whom he is one)

in fact, in this thread you will find official documents with signatures of all church leaders in Iraq, agreeing to this change.


Given all of this sudden feud and disagreement, Mr. Kanna is due to appear on Ashur TV later on today to explain his position.



I don't know all the facts other than what I read so far but I do hope the two reach an agreement and don't take this too far. His holiness Mar Daly is going too far with this and could end up hurting all the unity we have achieved between our people.



ASHOOR
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:39:40 AM by ASHOOR »


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Offline ASHUR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 01:55:47 PM »
ASHOOR: Why does this surprise you?  Are our memories that short that we forget this is the same person that said: "Any Assyrian that calls himself a Chaldean is a traitor, and any Chaldean that calls himself Assyrian is also a traitor"
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 02:34:08 PM »
Then we can only call this one thing, with all my due respect to his religious status: delusional. One day they want unity, next day they are again it, then back for it etc. Make up your mind!

It is not just funny but frustrating when you hear Mar Daly or others from the Chaldean church accusing Zowaa of trying to eliminate tte Chaldean name, when in fact he ( through Zowaa) has made it a compound name with Assyrian, and in the process angering other Assyrians for undermining the Assyrian name.

I hope people make up their mind as to what Mr. Kanna's intentions are. Maybe, just maybe, he is for unity, regardless of the name?

Cry me a....

Ashoor
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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 02:34:08 PM »

Offline Rumtaya

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 02:46:27 PM »
Oh nashee baateele baye mbalgee jana. Whats that for a Patriach. Salwa! He probably is influenced by some or a group. Well looking forward to the "Armenian Style" to take care off such issues or persons.

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 02:52:24 PM »
Is that really a suprise? When ever our ppl stood in our modern history in front of a goal our churchmen want to crash everything, be it due to money, power or intimidations on them by non-assyrians/chaldeans/syrians.

I hope that the majority of our ppl are nowaday wise enough to see these things.

Our own government according art. 125 is so close to us like never before. It is clearly that the non-suroye there dont want that and want to try everything to prevent that for tbeir own case.
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
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The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 02:59:24 PM »
You guys all make good points.

When you read all that I posted, this should have been a non-issue whatsoever. Or a very minor one at best. But for the head of CC (and his assistant too btw, Mr. Wardoony) to blow this and make it into a huge issue they have made it? That is not only disappointing but clearly shows that we are our first enemy before our real enemy is.

They are mad because the former president of the office of minority religious affairs-with the official blessing of the Iraqi government and pm-with a Chaldean one and because of this, Younadam Kanna is against Chaldeans? lol

I guess our church leaders can be sp pathetic.

'Give what is to Caesar...'


Ashoor
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Offline ASHUR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 03:34:12 PM »
The best course of action is to ignore them and continue to move forward.  We are the ones that tend to fuel the fire.  We know them for what they are and should not continue to fall into their trap.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 03:44:05 PM »
I agree and in fact I thought it was a mistake on our part ( website owners ) to be posting about this and giving it so much attention than it actually deserves.

Ashoor
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Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 08:26:40 PM »
Where all those acoe people that use to accuse him of being pro chaldean?
We all know this is b.s our religious leaders can jump and scream as much as they want in the end of the day one of the differences between Mar Delly and Youdnam Kannan is Mr Kannan was elected democratically.
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »
Our Assyrian church will accuse him of being pro-Chaldean while the Chaldean church will accuse him of being anti-Chaldean lol.

Poor Younadam Kanna, he is being pulled from both sides...

Confusing to say the least...

Ashoor
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Offline Nina

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 01:44:39 AM »
Younadam kanna is going to be haunted by the same monster he created.

It was kanna's fault and this problem started last year in June, un fortunately, if you people keep up with the news and what goes on within the Assyrian Nation, you would have been able to know these things, and you need to analyze and not just take things at face value.
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 09:01:42 AM »
Younadam kanna is going to be haunted by the same monster he created.

It was kanna's fault and this problem started last year in June, un fortunately, if you people keep up with the news and what goes on within the Assyrian Nation, you would have been able to know these things, and you need to analyze and not just take things at face value.

Nina khata, can you please explain to us what he did in June of last year exactly?

I follow the news very closely but can't remember what he did exactly?

ASHOOR
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 11:27:06 AM »
I thought this was a one-day thing but it doesn't seem to have stopped. Browsing through various Arabic-language websites, the wave of dirty and nasty attacks (and now Assyrians in general in some instances) is intensifying from some ultra-nationalist Chaldeans, claiming that what Mr.Kanna did (his backing of a new president for the office of religious endowment) is an attack on all Chaldeans. Silly as it sounds, most of them are lining up behind this claim and not relenting.

Of course, this issue will eventually die down, but at what cost? putting another hole in the trust that we have built between people of our nation?

The Chaldea church and its backers are making a serious mistake in escalating this non-issue. Well now they have made it into an issue.

ASHOOR
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Offline ASHUR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 11:46:37 AM »
Any specific names or locations of these "ultra-nationalist" "Chaldeans"?  Are they from San Diego or are they actually in Iraq?
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 11:55:26 AM »
Any specific names or locations of these "ultra-nationalist" "Chaldeans"?  Are they from San Diego or are they actually in Iraq?

Mostly European countries I believe, at least the ones that have a location. Not sure about Iraq itself other than the church itself.

One of the silliest articles I read about this whole thing, went as far as to include the following line which did it for me: "Assyrians, who were last defeated in 612 B.C by the Chaldeans and are now history..." LOL... there you have it, that is all it took for the author to lose his credibility.

These irrational authors, with their rush to judgment,  are bringing disgrace and shame to other Chaldeans around the world who are not taking this seriously.

Seriously, majority of our people haven't even heard of this post "Office of Religious Endowment" in Iraq...

Again, we are our worst enemy before anyone else.


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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 11:56:21 AM »
To add to that ASHUR, they are the usual suspects by the way, whose articles are mostly anti-Assyrian or never miss a chance to blast our name and culture. The ones that Zowaa doesn't want anyway and a lot of Chaldeans don't either.

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Offline ASHUR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 12:06:58 PM »
Got it.  Thanks barshie.
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Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 06:40:56 PM »
Younadam kanna is going to be haunted by the same monster he created.

It was kanna's fault and this problem started last year in June, un fortunately, if you people keep up with the news and what goes on within the Assyrian Nation, you would have been able to know these things, and you need to analyze and not just take things at face value.


Aga Poutros used the slash names Mr Kannan did not invent it.
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Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 06:43:59 PM »
Mostly European countries I believe, at least the ones that have a location. Not sure about Iraq itself other than the church itself.

One of the silliest articles I read about this whole thing, went as far as to include the following line which did it for me: "Assyrians, who were last defeated in 612 B.C by the Chaldeans and are now history..." LOL... there you have it, that is all it took for the author to lose his credibility.

These irrational authors, with their rush to judgment,  are bringing disgrace and shame to other Chaldeans around the world who are not taking this seriously.

Seriously, majority of our people haven't even heard of this post "Office of Religious Endowment" in Iraq...

Again, we are our worst enemy before anyone else.


ASHOOR

W.T.F ? sounds like a youtube E-war. Seriously these people are pathetic as if Zowwa has the time of the day for these people.

and w.t.f why is w.t.f a banned word?

« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 06:44:53 PM by Free_Assyria »
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Offline esz

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 10:44:13 PM »
To hell with our spiritual leaders! They have been at the root of our national problems for more than we'd like to acknowledge. There are those in our nation who will back the Churches no matter what but it's up to those in the "silent" majority that become a lot more vocal. Let's push back.

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2012, 09:00:40 AM »
I was just reading an article in Arabic by a Chaldean author and in it he strongly criticizes the patriarch of the Chaldean church, HH Mar Daly. He puts special emphasis on Mar Daly's insistence that he and the church don't interfere in politics, which if it was the case he wonders, why did the the patriarch-according to newly unearthed wiki-leaks documents-go to Paul Bremer, the American administrator in Iraq in 2004, asking him to have a seat at the newly created 'Iraqi governing council'?

Can you imagine? I have never heard of this until today: a spiritual and church leader going to the US administrator for Iraq, asking him to put him in a political position? and now he is criticizing Younadam Kanna?

Yep, that says it all.

ASHOOR
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:04:53 AM by ASHOOR »
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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2012, 09:05:41 AM »
Here is the a video from Ashur TV of the interview with Younadam Kanna, regarding this issue, in which he explains his position and what has really happened.

http://www.zowaa.org/Arabic/political%20bureau/pp%20news%20170112.htm


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Offline xxSanhoxx

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2012, 05:58:48 AM »
assyrians from chaldean catholic sect (including 50% of me) should be more organized in their own church.
yes, we can learn from the mistakes which happened when the Syriac-Orthodox Church fought against the assyrian national movement. Let's learn from the mistakes. Lets take a position IN the church, not oustide against the church. Lets kick the ass of this bishops and patriachs which are selling our people and history for some bugs.
I can't believe that 1/2 or more of the chaldean-catholic people share our idealody, when they don't do nothing.
The Chaldean-Catholics from Urmia/Iran, from Al-Hassakeh/Syria, from Turkey (Botan, Siirt, Omid, Midyat), and half of the Chaldeans from Iraq are all sharing the unity ideology. But is it really like this that two bishops of US and a patriach in Iraq are controlling the church? Can it be like this? REALLY?

These all assyrians have to organize theirself: revolution in the church, or splitting from this church with an overwhelming majority and building the assyrian-catholic church. in both scenarios the chaldean- anti-assyrian and unity - movement will lose, and the Assyrian National movement will win. And the church can become church again. hopefully.
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Offline ASHUR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2012, 10:55:19 AM »
I was just reading an article in Arabic by a Chaldean author and in it he strongly criticizes the patriarch of the Chaldean church, HH Mar Daly. He puts special emphasis on Mar Daly's insistence that he and the church don't interfere in politics, which if it was the case he wonders, why did the the patriarch-according to newly unearthed wiki-leaks documents-go to Paul Bremer, the American administrator in Iraq in 2004, asking him to have a seat at the newly created 'Iraqi governing council'?

Can you imagine? I have never heard of this until today: a spiritual and church leader going to the US administrator for Iraq, asking him to put him in a political position? and now he is criticizing Younadam Kanna?

Yep, that says it all.

ASHOOR


I heard about this a couple of years ago.  He was also told, by Bremer: "We have our man, and our man is Kanna."  

Maybe that's why he's been pissed and holding a grudge.  He should go kiss a Quran or something, oh wait...He's already done that.  Moron.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 10:56:29 AM by ASHUR »
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Offline Rumtaya

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2012, 12:35:42 PM »
salawa its on arabic..how i dislike that annoying language!

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 04:43:26 PM »
I heard about this a couple of years ago.  He was also told, by Bremer: "We have our man, and our man is Kanna." 

Maybe that's why he's been pissed and holding a grudge.  He should go kiss a Quran or something, oh wait...He's already done that.  Moron.



are you serious?
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Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »
salawa its on arabic..how i dislike that annoying language!

X 2 the ugliest language.
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Offline SyriacOrthodoxAssyrian

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2012, 01:51:29 AM »
are you serious?
Pope John Paul II also kissed the quran but some people didn't see it that negatively.

Quote
The Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts. It represents the giver. They knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. Thus, at the end of the audience, the Pope showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect. Such a gesture ran totally against the grain of crusades and condemnations. It did not mean that the Pope accepted all that was in the book, only that his love for the Muslim people, and the Iraqis in particular, was genuine. He makes the first move, not in the capitulation of our faith, but in the recognition that the followers of Jesus and those who cherish Mohammed should not be engaged in name-calling, or worse, killing each other. The Pope appreciated the suffering of the Iraqi people, particularly the women and children. It showed he did not look down upon them but had a genuine respect for them within the brotherhood of man.

True Christians hate sin, not sinners. One might show human respect to something like the Koran, particularly given its antiquity and meaning to so many; however, this is all a Christian and Jew can do. It is not our book. We neither acknowledge it as inspired nor as inerrant. We do not claim it as God’s Word. Indeed, it conflicts in many places with what God has genuinely revealed to us as his truth.

I think it has become custom for the extreme/nationalist Assyrians to be negative about whatever our churchmen do. Take it easy, maybe there's more to some stories. I don't really trust the politicians either.

Offline Westassyrian

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 06:03:02 AM »
I read this on Hujådå (Assyrian newspaper in Sweden www.hujada.com)

I cant believe how this guy can speak as he do, isn't he a church man?! the Assyrians and the Chaldeans(in north Iraq) must do something he is going to far and he is destroying our people, what an idiot!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 06:08:23 AM by Westassyrian »

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 09:30:40 AM »
Common sense is finally starting to show and prevail. Last two days, I am finally starting to read from authors who are saying what I have been saying since this issue erupted: that the Chaldean church is taking this too far, which is simply needless and causing further divisions.

They also make the point that various authors (mostly so-called 'chaldean nationalists') are stirring the pot and making things worse. They are turning the chaldean church into a political entity and pushing it away from its divine and religious duties.

I personally plan to publish the names of writers who made things worse with their writings and those who are doing damage control in order to contain the situation and save us further embarrassment.



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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 09:31:12 AM »
Let us stay away from name calling please. We may disagree and are angered by what we hear but respect for both sides is important.

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Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2012, 06:24:33 PM »

I think it has become custom for the extreme/nationalist Assyrians to be negative about whatever our churchmen do. Take it easy, maybe there's more to some stories. I don't really trust the politicians either.

That has nothing to do with it; Assyrians need to catch up with the rest of the world and separate church and state. Our church failed it’s time for our elected politicians to do the work and they can’t do their work if our churches keep undermining them. Question for you, would you let you mechanic fix your computer?
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

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Re: Developing: Chaldean Patriarch in a feud with Younadam Kanna
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2012, 10:49:33 AM »
Zowaa has officially responded to everything that has been going on, in very clear and legal terms.

It is in Arabic and I didn't find time to translate it, but I think Google translate should do the job fine for now: http://www.zowaa.org/Arabic/political%20bureau/pp%20news%20200112.htm

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