Author Topic: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans  (Read 3824 times)

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Offline Nahroyo

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Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« on: December 07, 2010, 01:14:40 PM »
I was reading through Wikipedia (I know, not the most credible source, but its easily accessible) and found a huge list of Eastern Assyrian tribes. To be honest I got a little jealous of how well documented some of these tribes are and even how long the list was.

We don't have tribes in the western assyrian community, but we do have family clans, I was just hoping you guys would help me out in documenting the various clan names, where they come from, and the family names:

I'll start us out:

1) Beth Haydo = Haydokiye
    From: Midin & Habsus
    Families:Üzel, Efram, Barsaumo, Tawil, Bisso, Uysal, Rasho, Abdalaha, Bugday, Moses, Yacoub, Buzgar, Sharro



Offline Tambur

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 01:31:30 PM »
Why are you jealous? If anything, the original Assyrians were not tribal, not to mention that there are only 4 Eastern Assyrian tribes, the rest which make up the majority are not tribal and lived just like their Western Assyrian brethren.

Online Shahin

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 02:12:42 PM »
Beth Qasho aHo ܒܝܬ ܩܫܐ ܐܚܐ
From: `aynwardo  (and maybe in Mzizah)
Families:  Shahin , Mushe Dumat and more...
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 02:12:42 PM »

Offline Nahroyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 03:09:42 PM »
 :blush2: Lol, maybe jealous was wrong wording on my part, I just meant that I wish there were more documentation on our part, maybe it stems from the fact that I'm a commerce student and I love organization and documentation. Maybe its just my personal belief, but I strongly believe, and would put great emphasis on, documenting as much of our intellect, history, music, culture, clothes, etc, as possible. Not for the sake of living in the past, but for preserving what we do take for granted.

Offline Nahroyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
Any one from Beth Shimoun who wants to give us some info on their respective villages and families?

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 03:53:21 PM »
Assyrians from Iran dont have tribes only village names thats it.
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline khilya

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 04:36:23 PM »
I was reading through Wikipedia (I know, not the most credible source, but its easily accessible) and found a huge list of Eastern Assyrian tribes. To be honest I got a little jealous of how well documented some of these tribes are and even how long the list was.

We don't have tribes in the western assyrian community, but we do have family clans, I was just hoping you guys would help me out in documenting the various clan names, where they come from, and the family names:

I'll start us out:

1) Beth Haydo = Haydokiye
    From: Midin & Habsus
    Families:Üzel, Efram, Barsaumo, Tawil, Bisso, Uysal, Rasho, Abdalaha, Bugday, Moses, Yacoub, Buzgar, Sharro

With eastern assyrians it's basically names of villages and families anyway. Except with us it starts with village/region and gets more specific from there. Like we have some relatives who are from the family of beth malakha from alqush and they are the only b'malakha people i've heard of. But then we have beth khosho from the tyari and jilu regions and they are two different families and a ton of different beth rasho families from all over the place. Is Beth Haydo the same family but from different villages?

Offline Nahroyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 05:21:42 PM »
Sort of, from 2 villages, and there are various sub-names within the family

Offline Tambur

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 06:25:25 PM »
All these names are not clan names because they are shared among many different Assyrians, it's basically a name of a person, usually if you go to a village and there's a man named Yonan that has a big family, they'll call them Be(th) Yonan, but obviously that does not make it a unique tribe or clan because there are lots of Assyrian Yonans out there, there are exceptions of course but those are kind of rare.

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 05:31:36 AM »
Family clans within western Assyrians? I never saw something like that. I know of many families which stick together in helping each other in different cases but they are open and helpful to people from other families too.

... I'll start us out:

1) Beth Haydo = Haydokiye
    From: Midin & Habsus
    Families:Üzel, Efram, Barsaumo, Tawil, Bisso, Uysal, Rasho, Abdalaha, Bugday, Moses, Yacoub, Buzgar, Sharro


Beth Qasho aHo ܒܝܬ ܩܫܐ ܐܚܐ
From: `aynwardo  (and maybe in Mzizah)
Families:  Shahin , Mushe Dumat and more...


I don´t know why you guys write these Turkish family names, our people were forced to take these turkish family names to assimilate them and kill their idenity immediately after the Seyfo.
Don´t you live in Sweden? As far as I know our people over there have the possibility to change their family names. So you should take this chance, we in Germany have to fight for this right yet. ... A tip if you change it, change it into "Beth ..." or "Bar..." becuase these are the typical forms of Assyrian family names ... and please don´t change it into "Lahdoson", "Yousifson", or something like that :s
We Assyrians have like many other peoples our own form of family names, so we should use it. And since there are many of us who have Hebrew family names, e.g. Jakub, Yousif, Mushe..., the Beth or Bar in front of this names would be the only identifying feature for an Assyrian family.

Read this article:
The Bet Revolution


shlome
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline khilya

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 02:32:03 PM »
Do you guys have family names in addition to having your grandpa or great grandpa name as your last name? My uncle and his family changed their last name from my uncle's grandfather's name to their actual family name like ten years ago. Their family name is also a regular first name but it is of the ancestor that lived God knows how long ago. But then my (from dad's side) family name isn't anyone's first name and was an assyrian word that somehow got associated with my family a couple hundred years ago and became my family name.

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2010, 03:30:41 PM »
Our Assyrian family names are the first names of our grandfather or grandgrandfather or grandgrandgrand...etc...Father (fathers side) with the word Beth or Bar in front of it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 03:31:06 PM by Zawoyo »
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline khayaatour

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 06:32:22 PM »
I was reading through Wikipedia (I know, not the most credible source, but its easily accessible) and found a huge list of Eastern Assyrian tribes. To be honest I got a little jealous of how well documented some of these tribes are and even how long the list was.

We don't have tribes in the western assyrian community, but we do have family clans, I was just hoping you guys would help me out in documenting the various clan names, where they come from, and the family names:

I'll start us out:

1) Beth Haydo = Haydokiye
    From: Midin & Habsus
    Families:Üzel, Efram, Barsaumo, Tawil, Bisso, Uysal, Rasho, Abdalaha, Bugday, Moses, Yacoub, Buzgar, Sharro

Reggardin Rasho tribe, I know a lot of them here in Sweden and some of them are living in Guthenbourg, alot of them are speaking only arabic or kurdish, but they still considering themslevs as syriani...

Offline Malik Danno

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 10:25:12 PM »
The reason why Assyrians have tribes is due to their geographic locations.

It is known that peoples living in the mountains tend to form tibes/clans who tend to have dialectic variation in their language. This is seen in Nepal, Greece (pre-nationalism), Scottland etc.

Assyrian tribes were an inherent part of our living in the mountains of mordern day SE Turkey. the mountains separated us from contact (to a certain extent) thus allowing less interaction thus allowing for dialectic variation in our language and which led to different loyalties (clan/tribe based)

just felt like saying that

Offline iraqicamel

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2010, 09:20:56 AM »
I just read that PDF and it just hit me.

Anytime I would tell my name to an older man/women, they would always say 'ahhhhh, beht (lastname)' and then correctly say which village I was from. I never realized that this is what the 'Bet' in people's name was. This is pretty cool now that I think of it, it's how our people normally speak (at least from back home.)
Quote from: OnPoint

You are truly delusional, you know that. The article says that the LARGEST RELIGION in the world is ISLAM. period. I know that Catholicism is a sect of Christianity, but the article is wise enough to say that ISLAM has surpassed even the largest sect of Christianity which is Catholicism. That clearly shows that there are more Muslims than any other religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

Offline Nahroyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2010, 09:42:14 AM »
I'm half arab (don't hate on me yo!) but we do something similar where I'm from, sometimes they say "bet (last name)" but mostly they say "dar" instead. More importantly tho they use directions, so you say "so and so is my last name" then they will say oooh you are "shargy" (easterner) or "shamalat" (northerner)

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2010, 04:39:49 PM »
Well, in fact most of the villages of Tur Abdin are organized by clans but the problem is now, nobody use it.

Midyad : there are big families who took control of the town : Saido, Challma, Bisse... Some people of these were really influent and were considered as "agha" (sorry for this kurdish name) like Abdo Zette who has his own men, at that time, syriacs were respected, for the best and for the worse, even by kurdish "agha".

Iwardo : same things, there are 12 clans.

Mzizah : the syriacs of Mzizah are from Iwardo, Masud was a great man of the village and still during the genocide when he was the leader in Iwardo. He ordered his men to go to each village under attack to save them and to take them to Iwardo. He was the one who organized the resistance.

Sare : as you said there is the family of the great Chamoun Hanna Haydo, kurdish "agha" considered him like their equal. His goal was to create a tribal system in Tur Abdin, He wanted to unify all the clans, for this he went to Arbo to talk about this with 2 prominent families Beth Arsan and other one which I have forgotten the name...One of these families rejected the idea...maybe if not, our destiny wouldn't be the same.

Kfarze : there are 7 clans (bavekat), the name of one is khuwaja (where I'm from), other people call them the family of aghas, I think there is a link with the signification of khwaja because if you take a look at wikipedia, it's a noble title used in middle east, central and south asia. I did a little research and I haven' saw another one christian family named khwaja... A brave named was from this family, his name was Abdo. After the genocide, he broke the mosque of the village, he urinated where muslims wash theirs hands and others, and he cleared off them from the village. For years they didn't show up and they did just after the murder of Abdo.

I don't have other information concerning the other villages

Sorry for my english! I'm not really fluent...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 05:08:12 PM by Khuwaja »

Offline Nahroyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2010, 05:04:07 PM »
No problem ahuno! thanks for all the info, that was really cool! Really glad you know our history!

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2010, 05:17:17 PM »
I don´t know why you guys write these Turkish family names, our people were forced to take these turkish family names to assimilate them and kill their idenity immediately after the Seyfo.

Maybe because he doesn't know the real name, what's the problem? It's not his fault.
Concerning the name shahin, I don't know if it's really turkish. This family name is really old in Iwardo, older than the change of name ordered by turkey.

Offline Micho

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2010, 02:25:34 PM »
Khuwaja, I'm from Iwardo could you tell us more of some of the families over there? I'm really interested. Weren't Iwardo built not so long ago? Just 1000 years ago or something?

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2010, 03:29:06 PM »
Micho, these are the 12 clans of Iwardo :
be kasho aho, be romanes, be shahin, be ghaze, be tuma, be guiguo,  be aho, be muksi, be ghisse, be keto, be aghbdish, be shlem

I have to say that all the villages of Tur Abdin (all region) are very old, most of them were built for 1500 years or more but I'm not saying that the people now (us) are the people who built it. In fact, as we saw earlier, we are organized in clan and normally each clan come from another region because there was migration or something like that.

I know families that are from Iwardo and other from Midyad, they told me that they were before a hundred of years in Hesno Kifo.
My family has been more than 500 years in Kfarze (I have a tree who retraced it to 1750),but before they migrated a lot : Mhare, Aleb, Moussoul....
In fact at a moment they were in Mhare (near nisibin), I don't know why and when, they decided change their village with the kurds of Kfarze, then they go to Kfarze (it's what I heard, I don't know if it's true).

I'm really interested by middle age in our case so If someone has more information  :clap:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:31:58 PM by Khuwaja »

Online Shahin

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2010, 05:11:47 PM »
There are also Be muche and be ketcho in Iwardo but Be shahin ( I'm from be Shahin) , be mushe ,be dumat and be qasho aho comes from one Family : Beth qasho aHo and  come from Hesno dkefo, the family tree goes back to 1650.(sorry for my english)

ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2010, 05:26:22 PM »
Thank you Shahin for this explanation.
Is there a name which includes these same families?

Offline Micho

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2010, 05:29:47 PM »
Micho, these are the 12 clans of Iwardo :
be kasho aho, be romanes, be shahin, be ghaze, be tuma, be guiguo,  be aho, be muksi, be ghisse, be keto, be aghbdish, be shlem

I have to say that all the villages of Tur Abdin (all region) are very old, most of them were built for 1500 years or more but I'm not saying that the people now (us) are the people who built it. In fact, as we saw earlier, we are organized in clan and normally each clan come from another region because there was migration or something like that.

I know families that are from Iwardo and other from Midyad, they told me that they were before a hundred of years in Hesno Kifo.
My family has been more than 500 years in Kfarze (I have a tree who retraced it to 1750),but before they migrated a lot : Mhare, Aleb, Moussoul....
In fact at a moment they were in Mhare (near nisibin), I don't know why and when, they decided change their village with the kurds of Kfarze, then they go to Kfarze (it's what I heard, I don't know if it's true).

I'm really interested by middle age in our case so If someone has more information  :clap:

Thanks man for the information!  :) This is really interesting, I didn't know our people have moved around so much in the villages.

Online Shahin

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2010, 05:49:49 PM »
The name which include be Shahin, Be mushe, be dumat, be qasho aho, is Beth qasho aho( yes the same name from the family be qasho aho, for exemple we say Yausef be shahin beth qasho aho usually we just say  yausef be shahin men Iwardo) and in 1650 Dumat ( a man) came in Hesno dkefo and then i don't know when he went to Iwardo, i should ask my father...
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 05:58:29 PM »
Thanks, do you where are from the others?

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2010, 07:26:25 PM »
Maybe because he doesn't know the real name, what's the problem? It's not his fault.
Concerning the name shahin, I don't know if it's really turkish. This family name is really old in Iwardo, older than the change of name ordered by turkey.

The first name changing didn´t take place in 1934 ordered by Turkey. There were often Assyrians who gave their children or their whole family Muslim names to hide themselves from discrimination.
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 11:16:23 AM »
The first name changing didn´t take place in 1934 ordered by Turkey. There were often Assyrians who gave their children or their whole family Muslim names to hide themselves from discrimination.

Before the genocide? I have doubts

Offline Forever Assyrian

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2010, 03:48:38 PM »
Saido from Midyat is one of the biggest, no doubt!
Imith dithe, o qadishto

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2010, 05:52:47 PM »
Before the genocide? I have doubts


Because...?
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Shemsha

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2010, 06:56:34 PM »
The name-change was forced by the turkish government and it was after WWI...mostly between 1940-1960.
Even the first names were turkified.
Its true that in the last 30-40 years some parents gave their kids turkish names to protect them.

I dont understand why you guys talk of clans...these are one family with different last names who still stick after decades or even centuries together...who had the same father and same mother !
For me a clan is like a criminal group...and such things didnt existed among the assyrians in Tur Abdin.

"Bavek or bavekat" is a kurdish word and it derives from "bave"= father, forefathers etc.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 06:58:04 PM by Shemsha »

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2010, 08:23:04 AM »
Because...?

Because at that time they didn't really use turkish name...the most of them didn't know turkish!

Offline Khuwaja

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Re: Western Assyrian (SURYOYO) Family Clans
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2010, 08:26:03 AM »
For me a clan is like a criminal group...and such things didnt existed among the assyrians in Tur Abdin.

a clan is an assembly of families...there is nothing bad in using this word.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 08:26:28 AM by Khuwaja »

 

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