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Offline Claridy

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Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« on: February 09, 2009, 01:03:18 PM »
I'm sure people won't like this article since I've known many to disagree, but it makes a great point.  There are only two answers.  True or False.  So which way do you have it?  Which way is right?  I'm not going to answer to any person's accusations of whatever they are ready to call me.  I'm done with that.  However, this article is meant to make you think, not to start a fight.  Read it, take a deep breath and think.  You'll be surprised what will happen when you do think, logic will start to kick in.

Disclaimer:  I believe homosexuality is no greater of a sin than lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, gossiping, fornication (without marriage), adultery, incest, and the likes.  Per the Bible, I do not condone any sin, even though I sin - I rely on the Holy Spirit to sanctify me, and take me back to the Image of Christ.  I have and have had homosexual friends, and in no way, shape or form do I "hate" them.  I treat them the same as I do with my other girl friends who sleep around, lie, cheat, and sin in other ways - only loving them and showing them Christ as best as I can.  There is hope for anyone who wishes to accept Jesus, just as one of my gay friends is on his way of doing right now.  God calls anything that He believes is harmful, or causes problems for us and others a sin.  He only wants the best for us, since He created us, He knows best.

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Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
By J. Matt Barber

It makes front page news when conservative elected officials are accused of selling-out to monolithic corporate lobbies like “Big Oil” or “Big Tobacco.” Yet the media rarely take notice when liberal politicians toe the line for extreme ideological special interests.

Case in point: Within minutes after swearing in, President Obama had the White House web site updated to declare his unconditional support for every demand of the politically powerful and very well-funded homosexual lobby (a.k.a., “Big Homo”). By announcing to the world his pro-“gay” agenda, Obama has thrown gasoline on smoldering culture war embers, generating a firestorm of controversy.

But amid the heated national debate over both religious liberty versus newfangled “gay rights” and the sanctity of natural marriage versus so-called “same-sex marriage,” something occurred to me. Either homosexual behavior is sexual immorality or there is simply no such thing as sexual immorality – period.

I know – pretty black and white, right? Evangelical Christians are habitually accused by the left of being too “black or white” on most of the highly polarizing moral issues which affect public policy and shape our larger culture. And so, in an effort to marginalize the so-called “religious right” and diminish its influence in society, evangelicals are pejoratively stamped “fundamentalist” by those who fancy themselves among the enlightened and view the world, instead, through delightfully murky and accountability-free shades of gray.

But despite the best efforts of “gay” activists, secular humanists, and religious leftists to muddy the moral waters, absolute truth – like a nautical buoy pulled below with rotting rope – has a way of heaving to the surface with a profound splash once the tenuous line snaps. It’s a matter of moral physics.

Of course, “fundamental” simply means “basic” or “important.” Hardly negative features from where I stand. In fact, it really is fundamental, isn’t it? I mean, either the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God, as maintained throughout both the Old and New Testaments, or it’s just a nifty old text full of creative tales and loose philosophies no more relevant to our daily lives than a Tony Robbins self-help book.

If it’s the latter, then today’s liberal elites have it right. The Bible should be taken with a grain of salt, enjoyed simply for its literary and historical value, or ignored altogether. However, if it’s the former – if the Bible really is the inerrant, inspired word of God as it purports to be – then wouldn’t it be in the best interest of every man, woman and child to pay close attention to what it has to say? Shouldn’t we make every effort to live life according to its express principles for our own sake and for the sake of others?

So, what does the Bible have to say about human sexuality? Specifically, what does Scripture say about homosexuality?

Again, it’s fundamental. Homosexual behavior, like adultery, fornication, incest and bestiality is, under no uncertain terms, classified as sexual immorality in both the Old and New Testaments. The historical and biblical records are unequivocal. In order to reach a contrary conclusion, people like President Obama, who rationalize that the Bible somehow affirms homosexual behavior – or at least remains neutral on the subject – are forced to cast aside any pretense of intellectual honesty and engage in gold medal mental gymnastics.

So, for the sake of national unity, let’s clear up any confusion about marriage and sexual immorality once and for all, shall we? And afterward, I expect all you leftists who’ve been badmouthing us “fundamentalists” to apologize, ‘kay?

First of all it was God, not Jerry Falwell, who both created and defined the institution of marriage. Conversely, it’s pro-homosexual extremists who wish to radically redefine it. In fact, Christ, in His own words, reaffirmed the true definition of marriage, saying, “Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6 NIV).

Evidently, Christ failed to clear His marriage definition with Barack Obama and Big Homo. Notice that – rather conspicuously – He did not say: “At the beginning the Creator made them gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT). For this reason a male, female or shemale will leave his, her or whatchahoozie’s father and mother, father and father or mother and mother and be united to his or her wife – and/or husband – and the two or more will become one flesh. Not that there's anything wrong with that.”

Despite fairly successful attempts by self-described “gay” activists to equate behaviorally driven “gayness” to immutable and neutrally defined qualities such as race and gender, the reality is that being “gay” has absolutely nothing to do with what someone is, and has everything to do with what someone does.

It’s all about feelings and behaviors. Behaviors that every major world religion, thousands of years of history, and uncompromising human biology have universally rejected as both immoral and destructive.

Just a few examples: Leviticus 18:22 commands us, rather unambiguously, “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”

Romans 1:26-27 warns, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

Christ’s Apostle Paul rhetorically asked in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Fortunately, as untold thousands of ex-“gays” can attest, God’s word also offers hope and freedom from the homosexual lifestyle. 1 Corinthians 6:11, says, “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

To the delight of truth seekers – and to the consternation of “gay” activists everywhere – the mere existence of ex-“gays” brings the biologically incongruous and politically motivated “born that way” house of cards crashing down. It further undermines Big Homo’s already frail justification for demanding special rights based on aberrant sexual behaviors. That’s why ex-“gays” are so hated by the left and so viciously maligned by homosexual activists.

So, again, President Obama, as a self-professed Christian, needs to be reminded that either homosexual behavior is sexual immorality or there is simply no such thing as sexual immorality. If the homosexual lifestyle is just another “sexual orientation,” then what possible justification can there be for opposing other biblically condemned “sexual orientations” like fornication, adultery, polygamy, incest, pedophilia or bestiality? If one is moral, all are moral. Then again, if one is immoral, all are immoral.

This means that “gay affirming” churches, which engage in what I call “a la carte Christianity” (take what you like, leave what you don’t) are really just “sin affirming” churches. And “gay friendly” politicians, like Barack Obama, who push an anti-Christian homosexual agenda, are really just “immorality friendly” politicians.

It really is that black and white – that fundamental. We’re either with God on sexual morality, or against Him. We just can’t have it both ways.




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Matt Barber is an attorney concentrating in constitutional law. He serves as Director of Cultural Affairs with both Liberty Counsel and Liberty Alliance Action. Send comments to Matt at jmattbarber@comcast.net.

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"Apologetics only leads the "horse" to the water. Only the Holy Spirit can make him drink."

"Judgement Day is not going to be so much God chasing down errant sinners and throwing them into hell, but rather God simply giving men what they have already chosen beforehand - either an eternity of the darkness they spent their lives hiding in or an eternity of the Light they spent their lives seeking out. -unknown"

Offline MXJSPH

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 01:21:12 PM »
Fine = sex between two or more consenting adult human beings.

Not fine = not the above.

And there ends your lesson in humanity for beginners.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offline AssyrianBahra

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 11:02:53 PM »
Fine = sex between two or more consenting adult human beings.

Ha, I like the "...two or more" part.

...Where's Waleeta, btw? Did she quit AVN?

Offline MXJSPH

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 12:54:44 PM »
Ha, I like the "...two or more" part.

...Where's Waleeta, btw? Did she quit AVN?

Nothing wrong with orgies.. No crossing swords though.

She's in my pocket - no peeking! Nah, well, she'll be back soon.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

Friedrich Nietzsche

civilisedviolence.wordpress.com

Offline privatebenjamin

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 08:20:26 AM »
Disclaimer:  I believe homosexuality is no greater of a sin than lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, gossiping, fornication (without marriage), adultery, incest, and the likes.  Per the Bible, I do not condone any sin, even though I sin - I rely on the Holy Spirit to sanctify me, and take me back to the Image of Christ.  I have and have had homosexual friends, and in no way, shape or form do I "hate" them.  I treat them the same as I do with my other girl friends who sleep around, lie, cheat, and sin in other ways - only loving them and showing them Christ as best as I can.  There is hope for anyone who wishes to accept Jesus, just as one of my gay friends is on his way of doing right now.  God calls anything that He believes is harmful, or causes problems for us and others a sin.  He only wants the best for us, since He created us, He knows best.

Homosexuality shouldn't even be a sin. 4000 years ago nearly everything was a sin or a taboo. Believe in Jesus and whatnot, but I think you should have a more modern view of the world. Technology is probably sinful too and we're around it as we're typing this (and you too).

Offline Rumtaya

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 09:35:38 AM »
more modern view? imagine we all go the way of "tolerance" at one point in time it would kill the humanity. since everyone would be tolerant, because there is no fear of sin, this leads to more "modern thinking" which would end in people not belivieing in sin and thus killing a society with high values and a decent moral.

dieseas rises, morality lowers, the idea of a healthy family vanishs an d humanity comes close to the brink pf extinction

Offline privatebenjamin

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 01:08:19 AM »
dieseas rises, morality lowers, the idea of a healthy family vanishs an d humanity comes close to the brink pf extinction

You don't need religion to have morality. So if God didn't exist you'd go and kill your neighbour? That means you're a bad person yourself. We humans are smart and evolved enough to make our own rules without the interference of the supernatural. Cops are the ones that could scare us into jail, not God and hell.

Oh, not to mention, the crusades, 9/11 and the burning of witches were a good source of religious morality weren't they?

And what diseases? Do hospitals use prayers to heal people? Do medical researches bring holy books to find cures? Diseases are being taken in better control these days. Even if there is no "morality", nothing is stopping us from finding cures/medicine.

I don't mean to sound like a preacher, but that's my opinion up there.

Offline Rumtaya

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 12:22:31 PM »
You don't need religion to have morality. So if God didn't exist you'd go and kill your neighbour? That means you're a bad person yourself. We humans are smart and evolved enough to make our own rules without the interference of the supernatural. Cops are the ones that could scare us into jail, not God and hell.

Oh, not to mention, the crusades, 9/11 and the burning of witches were a good source of religious morality weren't they?

And what diseases? Do hospitals use prayers to heal people? Do medical researches bring holy books to find cures? Diseases are being taken in better control these days. Even if there is no "morality", nothing is stopping us from finding cures/medicine.

I don't mean to sound like a preacher, but that's my opinion up there.

Where did I mention religion? I didnt say medicine or anything like that is bad. I didnt mention it at all. What I was talking about is that you have a God that is looking for the best for you.

Offline ins001

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 07:06:17 PM »
Homosexuality shouldn't even be a sin. 4000 years ago nearly everything was a sin or a taboo. Believe in Jesus and whatnot, but I think you should have a more modern view of the world. Technology is probably sinful too and we're around it as we're typing this (and you too).

Technology is definitely a sin. If the bible forbids mixing clothing fibers then I'm pretty sure every single type of tech is sinful. There is a reason why Amish people dint use electricity, cars or anything like that. To be more specific on the clothing law (which i am not sure if the Amish abide by) see Lev. 19:19 "Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee."

I can't believe that people still have faith in an institution that has had so much authority for such a long time and have severely abused their power throughout the centuries. ANY lie can be hidden in the Vatican vault. The Catholic Church has successfully interrupted the advancement of humans in the past by banning science (e.g. Galileo being put under house arrest)

Offline 000

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 01:17:56 AM »
Not sure if Claridy is currently an active member here, but if you are, why are you so easily befuddled? The Truth is right in front of your eyes, and with a handful of words thrown at you from non-believers, you allow yourself to be deceived. It states CLEARLY in 1 Corinthians 6:9 that those who practice homosexuality will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. Simple. No need for over-analyzing or debate. Look also to Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. Does anything more really need to be said?

I'm with you, though, in saying that we all (not some, but ALL - including the Saints of days past) struggle with sin and will continue to do so until the second regeneration - so when we judge, it's not in a condemning manner, rather we judge to differentiate between what falls in line with God's will and what does not. Those who have homosexual desires (assuming they're actively resisting said desires) are no different than those struggling to turn away (a.k.a repent) from their sexual desires towards a member who is not their spouse. We all need to resist the passions that come from the devil - simple to understand, yet terrifyingly difficult (without the aid of Christ Himself) to accomplish. We are all enslaved by these passions - once we realize this, we also come to realize that a Savior is needed.

Homosexuality shouldn't even be a sin.

You really need to wake up. What you say is of no relevance to a true Christian, as it IS a sin and it's something that is morally disgusting in the eyes of God. Perhaps you should consider writing your own book in attempts to have people follow the rules you lay out for them if you don't accept ours, instead of vomiting these off-the-cuff remarks for what may be nothing more than recreational purposes. It doesn't seem as if you have any malign intent, though you really need to think about what it is you're saying, and the impact it can have on people, before you actually say it.

Believe in Jesus and whatnot, but I think you should have a more modern view of the world.

The above two parts of your sentence do not coincide with one another. Reason being: you can't "believe in Jesus and whatnot" if "having a modern view of the world" means that you live (or uphold beliefs that are) in direct opposition to what it is that He has taught. Not that hard a concept to grasp.

Furthermore, you need to try and understand where we, as Christians, are coming from. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that God doesn't dwell within time and though the bible is 2,000 years old, the Truth contained within Scripture always was, is and always will be Truth? You want to change your lifestyle, your habits, your way of thinking, acting and speaking according to what the world deems is perfect today? Go right ahead. No one, not even God Himself, will hold you back from doing so. We, however, will continue to follow what He has asked us to do, according to His will, and not ours, and not the will of this current age. Can't accept it? Move on.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 02:57:24 AM by 000 »

Offline privatebenjamin

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 06:37:50 AM »
You really need to wake up. What you say is of no relevance to a true Christian, as it IS a sin and it's something that is morally disgusting in the eyes of God. Perhaps you should consider writing your own book in attempts to have people follow the rules you lay out for them if you don't accept ours, instead of vomiting these off-the-cuff remarks for what may be nothing more than recreational purposes. It doesn't seem as if you have any malign intent, though you really need to think about what it is you're saying, and the impact it can have on people, before you actually say it.

The above two parts of your sentence do not coincide with one another. Reason being: you can't "believe in Jesus and whatnot" if "having a modern view of the world" means that you live (or uphold beliefs that are) in direct opposition to what it is that He has taught. Not that hard a concept to grasp.

Furthermore, you need to try and understand where we, as Christians, are coming from. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that God doesn't dwell within time and though the bible is 2,000 years old, the Truth contained within Scripture always was, is and always will be Truth? You want to change your lifestyle, your habits, your way of thinking, acting and speaking according to what the world deems is perfect today? Go right ahead. No one, not even God Himself, will hold you back from doing so. We, however, will continue to follow what He has asked us to do, according to His will, and not ours, and not the will of this current age. Can't accept it? Move on.

I can't accept. I don't accept it actually. That's why I moved on. I have learned that the bible is as fictitious and mythical as the ancient Assyrian, Egyptian and Greek religious scrolls. Let's not mention, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism. Yep, all are mythical in my mind. Tell me, why are there some animals that sleep with the same sex? That's nature there for you. Surely if God found homosexuality disgusting he wouldn't make them do that.


Offline 000

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 12:22:21 PM »
I have learned that the bible is as fictitious...

I'm curious: how have you come to learn this?

Yep, all are mythical in my mind.

Let's approach your statement from a non-religious standpoint. All the things your mind has ever concluded were true - have they always been true? I take it you don't leave any room for the possibility that what you say just -may- not have any factual basis outside of your own perception?

Tell me, why are there some animals that sleep with the same sex? That's nature there for you. Surely if God found homosexuality disgusting he wouldn't make them do that.

You're right! Though not natural, that is nature. That is the theme of this fallen world - in which even animals are affected. A world where living beings have an instinctive propensity towards evil.

One thing you should understand, though, is that God doesn't make animals have sex with one another - nor does He cause man to follow through with evil deeds - these choices are made entirely by us. I believe it's called an antinomy. He's able to sustain the universe, yet not affect the free will He has given us. Seemingly contradictory, yet both points are true.

Also, the difference between a dog and yourself, I assume, is fairly obvious? As the saying goes, "they know, but you know that you know." You can't deny that you are on a plane higher than that of an animal. You understand; you can reason - they can't and they don't. We both have souls, but humans have spirits. A spirit that is able to commune with God Himself. One that is able to comprehend what the apostle Paul says when he writes to the Church in Romans 7:7, "Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law." Not only do we have the capability to understand what was written, but we also have the ability to apply these teachings into our lives.

It's my belief that we've fallen from Grace and that God has given us a map outlining our way back home. Should you choose to walk in a different direction, then surely you can do as you please.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:13:20 PM by 000 »

Offline anosh_88

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 09:08:17 PM »
I think this argument about homosexuality and religion boils down to what one values: Objective and universal morals or subjective and evolving ethics. You can't really make a non-believer believe that homosexuality is a sin because they see that something as old as the Bible is not applicable to the modern worldview of moral subjectivism, which says that anything goes anywhere as long as people are willing to accept it. Since people are mentioning the 'consequences' of Christianity as is implied, let's mention a few sadistic and satanic consequences of Atheistic regimes, namely the ones under Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse Dong, and Pol Pot (Just to mention a few of the examples of what irreligiousity has done to society). They had no moral basis, because according to Atheism, there are no objective moral values. We learn not to kill or rape because we our views have gone through a sort of 'pseudo-evolutionary' state where we see that it does not advance the human race, which needs to survive. This undermines the whole concept of moral values and duties and relegates them to a position similar to that of choosing whether you want to have steak or chicken for dinner.

Offline privatebenjamin

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 12:36:09 AM »
You're right! Though not natural, that is nature. That is the theme of this fallen world - in which even animals are affected. A world where living beings have an instinctive propensity towards evil.
Yep, more supernatural, dark ages thoughts. I apologize but what you're saying is not educated. What does evil have to do with nature? So animals eating other animals for food is evil too? I'm guessing that counts or something, huh? Seriously, making love is far from evil.

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One thing you should understand, though, is that God doesn't make animals have sex with one another - nor does He cause man to follow through with evil deeds - these choices are made entirely by us.

That's true, but rather subjective. Not everyone finds homosexuality 'evil'. Good luck with that anyway.

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It's my belief that we've fallen from Grace and that God has given us a map outlining our way back home. Should you choose to walk in a different direction, then surely you can do as you please.
Guess what? According to Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists, you are also walking in a different and a rather doomed direction.

Offline privatebenjamin

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Re: Homosexuality and the Laws of Moral Physics
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2013, 12:45:57 AM »
You can't really make a non-believer believe that homosexuality is a sin because they see that something as old as the Bible is not applicable to the modern worldview of moral subjectivism, which says that anything goes anywhere as long as people are willing to accept it.
That's true. And there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure you don't follow all the biblical rules because you would say that they're old-fashioned too. So yeah...

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Let's mention a few sadistic and satanic consequences of Atheistic regimes, namely the ones under Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse Dong, and Pol Pot (Just to mention a few of the examples of what irreligiousity has done to society).
Nice try bud, though the last time I checked these maniacs you mentioned didn't kill in the name of Atheism or their beliefs - unlike Hitler and the Crusades. They were Atheistic simply because they thought that they were gods themselves. They wanted no higher power governing or ruling them. They were egotistical, uppity evil scumbags. They have nothing on Atheism. Didn't you forget some great minds like Darwin and Einstein (irreligious folks) who contributed some goodness and education to this society?

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They [Atheists] had no moral basis, because according to Atheism, there are no objective moral values.
Awesome...you can always get your morals from a book that encourages rape, child abuse, murder, war and violence. Who wouldn't.

I'm guessing your objective there is to get to heaven and to avoid hell, because if there wasn't a God you'd do anything in this world eh? Perhaps kill anyone? Atheists believe in humanity. They wouldn't you hurt because they are humane, not because THEY ARE AFRAID OF HELL. I'm sure many Christians & Muslims wouldn't mind murdering someone, but because there is hell they wouldn't do it for the sake of the eternal torture, and not because of humane reasons.

 

 

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