Poll

Have the Kurds and Assyrians ALWAYS lived in Peace?

Yes, OF COURSE (who cares about Semele, Mar Shimun, etc)
0 (0%)
No, that would be a blatant lie
19 (100%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: January 26, 2006, 06:45:15 PM

Author Topic: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????  (Read 9071 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Robert Khnanisho

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2006, 10:19:54 PM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.

Offline Free_Assyria

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9383
  • Gender: Male
  • Free Occupied-Assyria
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2006, 12:33:59 AM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.


i understand what your saying and agree with some parts of thread
but i will never forget the past i dont have a "chip on my shoulder" but we shall never NEVER forget.
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline aka_Atour

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2006, 02:33:38 PM »
ACOE will be releasing the original document in the original document that will show Mar Dinkha did not say we have ALWAYS lived in peace.  Don't worry, he didn't make a blatant lie, he didn't ignore all those people that died (even though he's participated in Martyr's day events every year... apparently that doesn't matter).  So hopefully this thread and all it's lies will be stifled.

One last thing, let's not make blanket comments about not trusting and entire race of people, whomever that may be.  Yes, a lot of people have committed a lot of atrocious things, but comments like that are borderline racist.
Mike, buddy, the original copies are already out..It's old news.
This is not the first time Mar Dinkha has said something like this.....

Assyrian Voice Forum

Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2006, 02:33:38 PM »

Offline David

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5566
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2006, 05:15:52 PM »
ACOE will be releasing the original document in the original document that will show Mar Dinkha did not say we have ALWAYS lived in peace.  Don't worry, he didn't make a blatant lie, he didn't ignore all those people that died (even though he's participated in Martyr's day events every year... apparently that doesn't matter).  So hopefully this thread and all it's lies will be stifled.

One last thing, let's not make blanket comments about not trusting and entire race of people, whomever that may be.  Yes, a lot of people have committed a lot of atrocious things, but comments like that are borderline racist.
Mike, buddy, the original copies are already out..It's old news.
This is not the first time Mar Dinkha has said something like this.....

Where might one find the original copies?
"It is dreadful when something weighs on your mind, not to have a soul to unburden yourself to. You know what I mean. I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." -Frediric Chopin

www.assyrianaid.org | www.aancoalition.org

Offline MikesBike

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 530
  • Gender: Male
  • Turnabout Is Fair Play!
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2006, 09:50:11 PM »
ACOE will be releasing the original document in the original document that will show Mar Dinkha did not say we have ALWAYS lived in peace.  Don't worry, he didn't make a blatant lie, he didn't ignore all those people that died (even though he's participated in Martyr's day events every year... apparently that doesn't matter).  So hopefully this thread and all it's lies will be stifled.

One last thing, let's not make blanket comments about not trusting and entire race of people, whomever that may be.  Yes, a lot of people have committed a lot of atrocious things, but comments like that are borderline racist.
Mike, buddy, the original copies are already out..It's old news.
This is not the first time Mar Dinkha has said something like this.....

No, they're not.  That is why Michi locked every thread where this (false) claim is made.  Again, the translation is not 100% correct.
Regardless, look at what he's DONE.  He's attended every Martyr's day event that's been had in Chicago.  Apparently that means nothing but a mistranslated and inaccurate letter means a lot more.  So I guess actions don't speak louder, unless its someone you support.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2006, 11:08:24 PM by MikesBike »
Mike, the bike messenger

Offline shamirum

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
  • Gender: Female
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2006, 02:28:48 PM »
I can't wait for these supposed "originals" to become available to us. I can only assume the letter would have been written in Kurdish or Arabic, as it was addressing the oh-so-great leader of Kurdistan.

Even if the original doesn't specifically use words like "always," the tone of the letter was probably translated correctly. The tone, in my opinion, is desperate and humble. Humble is fine, but desperate is where I have the problem. It's almost like the ACOE patriarch is thanking the Kurds for allowing us to live. HEY, before any of you attack me for misinterpreting the letter (or even accuse me of twisting it around, because believe me, I have better things to do), let me remind you that it's my professional and personal talent to analyze text; it's not just something I do in my free time. The general and specific things that are stated, seem like someone is holding an axe over our heads, and we must give false praise and that "mkhaya mishkheh" is necessary just to stay alive. Hey, maybe it's true, maybe the person who wrote this letter for Mar Dinkha was thinking that we need to do everything we can to protect our people in Iraq, even if it means kissing the ass of someone who doesn't care about us at all (I can assure you that the ACOE patriarch did not pen this letter all by himself, which is the case for every letter from his office).

Either way, I can totally understand why people are upset with this letter, because if it's "real," then it's full of lies. Not just little lies, but important ones about events that have shaped our lives as Assyrians today. If you attempt to paint a picture where Assyrians and Kurds have been brothers and struggled together instead of against one another, you are painting a FALSE picture. This false picture, therefore, is a lie. That’s logic, not manipulation.

I'm all for forgiving the mistakes of the past and moving forward together. This means that I would love Assyrians to work side-by-side with Kurds, IN PEACE, toward a better a more prosperous Iraq. I don't want a continued feud between us. My mother could have a personal vendetta against them, because her father was murdered by Kurds, when she was only nine months old, but she'd be the first one to say, “Let's move beyond all of this and progress forward!” BUT, that does not mean we FORGET. Forgiveness and hope for the future doesn't mean we pretend nothing bad ever happened. I'd rather be killed, than to pretend my people have not suffered; I'd rather lose my life, then lie to myself and others and pretend everything is and has always been perfect. Forgive, but DO NOT FORGET. Those lives would be complete wastes if we forget, or even pretend to forget: that's what infuriates me most about this letter.

Offline aka_Atour

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2006, 02:32:21 PM »
shamirum these documents surfaced soon after the letter was sent. Everyone accepted it.

Offline shamirum

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
  • Gender: Female
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2006, 02:48:10 PM »
shamirum these documents surfaced soon after the letter was sent. Everyone accepted it.

What are you talking about? Did you read what I wrote? I am not saying this letter is fake or that it's a mistranslation. I am pretty confident that this was, in fact, what was written and sent, but I want the original letter only so that others can see it themselves and stop saying that the rest of us are just twisting Mar Dinkha's words around to our benefit. The letter has a definite "tone" and presence, and none of that can be denied. It's a letter that makes it seem as if our people have been persecuted ALONG with the Kurds, instead of by them, and that is, of course, quite false. Although both our peoples have suffered together in SOME things (including this most recent war), throughout history, it has been our people that have been slaughtered more, that have been burned and raped and tossed away like worthless flesh. Pretending like it's not is like "srawilan" all.

Offline MikesBike

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 530
  • Gender: Male
  • Turnabout Is Fair Play!
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2006, 03:05:42 PM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.

Exactly.  There are so many other things that so many other people have been saying (eg the Chaldeans are not Assyrians comment by that one Bishop), that this pales in comparison.  This letter, even if it is a 100% perfect translation, does not even come close.  If that's the best criticism people can come up with, than I'm not at all worried, because its really grasping for straws at this point.
Mike, the bike messenger

Offline Senator_Danavi

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 852
  • Gender: Male
  • Exposing Treason, Oppresion & Defamation
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2006, 08:12:34 PM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.

Dear Robert,

Where was this beautiful passage when the ACOE Synod expelled Mar Bawai Soro??  Or even when they decided to ignore the Holy Scriptures and take their brother to court?

1 Corinthians 6:5-7

5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?

Offline Robert Khnanisho

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2006, 09:10:55 PM »
Dear Robert,

Where was this beautiful passage when the ACOE Synod expelled Mar Bawai Soro??  Or even when they decided to ignore the Holy Scriptures and take their brother to court?

Azizzet Mamma,  :loool:

Your really really really funny brother.  :yourock:

I'm not going to waste my time with foolish comments like that. Let your confidence be in your favourtie Bishops innocence, I'm a hypocrite and a liar and I follow fools blindly. You can rub it all in my face after the court case is over azizza.

 :clap:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 09:12:41 PM by Robert Khnanisho »

Offline Senator_Danavi

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 852
  • Gender: Male
  • Exposing Treason, Oppresion & Defamation
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2006, 09:30:51 PM »
Dear Admin,

Since you have presented multiple questions and since I have their respective answers, I will post them in Q & A style.

Senator Danavi: If Mar Dinkha ' secretly (which is so frustrating) met and lobbied Kurdish leaders on a political front', how is it that it is now being discussed?


Although I have some personal opinions regarding this visit, the question you posed is one that is requesting confirmation.  Zinda Magazine published an editorial with an eyewitness account of this meeting back in October 2005.  I am sorry if this information got to you a bit tardy, but this has been a hot botton issue in the Chicago Assyrian Radio network for a few months now.
Source: http://zindamagazine.com/html/archives/2005/10.29.05/index_sat.php#TheLighthouse

Are you outraged because you believe Mar Dinkha to be engaging in politics?


Yes, I am outraged.  Not on the basis of him actually discussing politics, but due to the high level of secrecy and clout surrounding these high profile meetings.  As logical and progressive citizens of the ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation, it makes us question his motives and stances.

I am not saying that he is, but let's for the moment say that he is.


Ok, Michi, since we have established that he has met with Barzani we can eliminate your attempt to begin a hypothetical question.

In previous posts, you said that it was ok for Mar Bawai to align himself with a political party with whose ideas he agreed with. So which is it? Is it ok for some or ok for none? As for me, it is ok for none. Ok wait... I think I just found the answer to my question.
Quote
There should be a supportn and definite collaboration between the church and state affairs, but not a conflict.  For if there is a conflict of ideals and loyalties, the the church must stay out of the elected political reprentation and state's affairs.  I emphasize state affairs and not nation, for Nation includes Church, politics, etc.
[/size].

So, in your opinion, practising in politics is ok as long as those politics concur with the elected political representation.


The success of America's government can be tied to the separation of Church and State as well as other countries in Europe and throughout the world that have bolstered this clause.  Where State matters are taken up by those devoted to State affairs and Christian affairs led by those who are dedicated and devoted to God.  Let us not forget what the Holy Scripture has said:

St. Matthew 22:21
Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

Religious figures can practice whatever they want as long as it is allowed and enshrined within the Holy Scriptures.  Thus from these two clauses, one can logically compile the need for religious figures to practice what they preach and for the State to be involved in the overall welfare.  Therefore, religious figures should not get involved in debates or in politiking when the "politics" isn't based or enshrined in the Word of God.

I think you have the argument backwards.  Religious leaders SHOULD get involved when political parties/elected representations are supporting or pushing a Christian agenda. 

I.E. For Mar Bawai to preach unity transcends all parties and politics, and is a direct decree from Our Lord.  For Mar Bawai to support organizations that embolster such a message is part of his God-given duty and a characteristic of his faith to do so.   

My main point is that there is only one humanitarian party and movement in the ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation and that is Zowaa.  The other imitations (far from it though) are merely political parties that comprise of all rhetoric and zero committment to the welfare of our Nation.  In some cases, Churches fall also in the latter category without any dedication in fullfilling Christ's missions of helping and aiding the needy and substitute exclusive and dividing rhetoric in place of love, forgiveness, peace, truth, and unity.  This can be seen in the sermons and actions of the Heirarchal members of the Churches.  For a bishop in one of these misaligned Churches to ally with a humanitarian and unification party is not politiking, but actually supporting Christ's Words with needed action.

Zowaa and the Assyrian Aid Society are the flickering light of the ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation, and since one is purely humanitarian and the other humanitarian as well as an elected national represenation they hardly deserve to be branded as merely political parties.  Thus, if a Church is unwilling to ally or support these humanitarian missions nor respect the elected representation (that you seem to be pushing on AVN), they should not get involved at all.  For their actions will run contrary to the Words of the Lord's by supporting and instigating division within their own flock.

For supporting kurdification and involving oneself in a political party comprised of nothing more than policy debate and rhetoric spewing with zero action is an outright scandal and an interference of religion within the realm of unholy politiking. This is not an area where Religious leaders should involve themselves into, for their time should be bolstering the fundamentals of Our Lord Jesus Christ and not the fundamentals of Aristotle and Thomas Jefferson.

I will not even initiate discussion into what a high profile secretive meeting with the president of a kurdifying political party would be considered.


What happens in the cases where there is no elected body practising sovereignty and autonomy? I am not sharpshooting you here, but I do wish to know your thoughts.


Zowaa has political and national sovereignty through the Iraqi Constitution as the official representation of the Christian populous.  However, more importantly, they have sovereignty through the good and humanitarian deeds they have carried out in our Homeland.  The daycare centers, schools, irrigation canal, farms and orchards, and other community developments that Zowaa has accomplished has given it the needed reputation to be seen as a MOVEMENT, not based on rhetoric, but on good works in Our Homeland. 

This movement embodies the definition of autonomy and sovereignty, unlike other pseudoAssyrian parties, garners the majority of its support from members of the ChaldoAssyrianSyraic Nation and not from external contradictive influences--KDP.

Also, please refrain from calling the clergy liars, regardless of which denomination they represent.


Michi,  what should we label clergy (humans) who commit either of the following:

   1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
   2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lies


God Bless!!!



« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 10:12:18 PM by Senator_Danavi »

Offline ISay

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 345
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2006, 10:09:25 PM »
Hello Senator Danavi!

I was just wondering if you have seen this Web site and what you think of it.  www.aramnaharaim.org
Of course it is historically very inaccurate!  Infact the lies they spread on this site totally infuriate me.  This group is trying to rewrite history.  They want to deny that we as ChaldoAssyrianSyriacs are even an independent people/nation.  What is more upsetting is that they take on the name of Christ and spread lies.  Giving all benefit of the doubt to the SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, I am not sure if this is what they themselves believe, or if these are the lies spewed from a certain group that has no sanction from the said church.

What are your thoughts on this?  or anyone else's opinions?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 03:58:54 PM by ISay »

Offline aka_Atour

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2006, 12:59:19 AM »
doesn't look to be an official church run site...
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?whoistoken=0


Offline MikesBike

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 530
  • Gender: Male
  • Turnabout Is Fair Play!
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2006, 01:14:58 AM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.

Dear Robert,

Where was this beautiful passage when the ACOE Synod expelled Mar Bawai Soro??  Or even when they decided to ignore the Holy Scriptures and take their brother to court?

1 Corinthians 6:5-7

5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?


Hmmm, where was Mar Bawai's good words?  I can recall a relatively nasty letter from him that preceded all of these other ones.  ALso, last I checked, the legal battle has been a two way street.  Can't blame ACOE issuing blame to Mar Bawai.
Nice try, though.
Mike, the bike messenger

Offline Senator_Danavi

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 852
  • Gender: Male
  • Exposing Treason, Oppresion & Defamation
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2006, 07:21:28 PM »
Hello Senator Danavi!

I was just wondering if you have seen this Website and what you think of it.  www.aramnaharaim.org
Offcourse it is historically very inaccurate!  Infact the lies they spread on this site totally infuriate me.  This group is trying to rewrite history.  They want to deny that we as ChaldoAssyrianSyriacs are even an independent people/nation.  what is more upsetting is that they take on the name of Christ and spread lies.  Giving all benefit of the doubt to the SYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, I am not sure if this is what they themselves believe, or if this is the lies spewed from a certain group that has no sanction from the said church.

What are your thoughts on this?  or anyone else's opinions?

Hey ISay,

I looked at that site, and just like the Kurdish proganda, they are attempting to build walls and rewrite our history.

We seriously need to send out a strong message to our Churches that utterly blames them for the divisions that have occured in the past (which is sadly very true) and warns them not to get involved again, as we will not let history repeat itself.  Why allow organizations that have such a divisive past and repetuation be allowed to interfere in our Nation's movement and progression.  If they are not helping this unification, then they need to stop writing isolationist nationalistic letters (ahem Mar Gewargis in Iraq) and start caring about our impoverished, hungry, and destitute in our community as instructed by Our Lord.

WE ARE ALL ONE!  AND NO!!! THE KURDS AND ASSYRIANS HAVE NOT ALWAYS LIVED IN PEACE AND HARMONY.

God Bless!!!

Offline Robert Khnanisho

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2006, 09:52:51 PM »
Senator,

Just because you write ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation, it does not mean that it exists.

I'm Assyrian and will always be Assyrian, never will I be a Chaldean and never will I be a Syriac, history tells me that there is no such thing as a Chaldean Nation or a Syriac Nation.

History does tell me however that there were people who were once Assyrian but then decided to deny that fact and call themselves something different.


Offline sydneydude

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1859
  • making no mistakes determines certain victory
    • http://myspace.com/peteresho
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2006, 09:56:34 PM »
Just a thought;

Maybe this was going through Mar Dinkha's mind when he wrote that letter (if it's real and it's a real translation);

1 Corinthians 13:5 (New International Version)
5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You see guys harping on the past wont get us nowhere in the future, and how about we stop pointing the finger at external issues, like we as Assyrians have nothing to do with our current state.

Let's take the PLANK out of our own eye before we take the speck of sawdust out of our brothers.


then why do the ACOE leaders constantly expose the record of supposed atrocities the Roman Catholic Church has committed aginst the Church of the East...consistency is important. you might want to share that Godly word with the clergy of the ACOE rob!

Senator,

Just because you write ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation, it does not mean that it exists.

I'm Assyrian and will always be Assyrian, never will I be a Chaldean and never will I be a Syriac, history tells me that there is no such thing as a Chaldean Nation or a Syriac Nation.

History does tell me however that there were people who were once Assyrian but then decided to deny that fact and call themselves something different.



history tells you that there is no such thing as a Chaldean or Syriac Nation ? what happend to keeping no record of wrongs ?

how many Chaldeans or Syriacs have you sat down with (in Christian brotherhood) and discussed what your saying. you think your familiar with history but let me remind you that your view on history is different to your Chaldean and Syriac brother and sister.

you want to be a good Christian, then you need to strive for unity. remember Galacians 3:28...put your Assyrian pride asside (even if you think your 100% correct) and for the sake of our Christian community in the disapora think of the opinions of others...

remember to be consistent and not self-seeking or keeping record of wrongs

What makes a Nation?

Nations are people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality. They are a relatively large group of people organized under a single system of government.

One Nation ?

we speak one language, we come from the same geographic region, we originated from the one Church of the East...we believe in one Lord Jesus Christ and thus we, as Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriacs represent ONE NATION, each with its own attributes but united in faith through common culture, ideals and beliefs.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2006, 10:15:47 PM by sydneydude »

Offline Free_Assyria

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9383
  • Gender: Male
  • Free Occupied-Assyria
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2006, 11:19:18 PM »
Senator,

Just because you write ChaldoAssyrianSyriac Nation, it does not mean that it exists.

I'm Assyrian and will always be Assyrian, never will I be a Chaldean and never will I be a Syriac, history tells me that there is no such thing as a Chaldean Nation or a Syriac Nation.

History does tell me however that there were people who were once Assyrian but then decided to deny that fact and call themselves something different.



Robert Azzizam

Your like a brother to me but you must understand these were the reasons why we were classified as "Christian Kurds" in the 1st version of the Iraqi constitution (post Saddam fall) Because we couldn’t sit down together and agree on one united name because our leaders were more concerned about segregation rather then unity.

Chaldean,A2raya,Syriac all are the same.

"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline RadRides

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6060
  • Gender: Male
  • bar-b-que-nin king
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2006, 11:25:55 PM »
I agree.

We are talking about generations and generations that lacked unification.  Whatever the reasons, we are one.  A thousand years here, a few church splits there, and millions of stubborn individuals have lead to this.  There is a revitalization going on in Iraq and in the world community.  We must embrace our brothers and sisters and unify.  Strength in numbers.  If we can agree on that, there is no stopping us.  Riza, Robert, and others even you can agree on that. 

Offline Robert Khnanisho

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2006, 11:41:20 PM »
 :bangin:

Offline Senator_Danavi

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 852
  • Gender: Male
  • Exposing Treason, Oppresion & Defamation
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2006, 03:11:38 AM »
First and Foremost:

Welcome Back Looya "SydneyDude" :welcome3:
This is my issue. 

The Churches in our Nation have played a divisive role in our names and denominations.  National politics did not lead to this, but religious leaders assuming political capital and roles did.

  • Assyrian
  • Chaldean
  • Syriac
  • Aramean
  • Maronite

Excerpt from the AssyrianChaldeanSyriac Student Movement's Charter:

We acknowledge that over the many centuries, occurrences of religious and church divisions have resulted in the adoption of new labels and names to identify the indigenous and original Semitic based Assyrian Babylonian Nation.  Today, Assyrian, Chaldean, and Syriac are the primary labels that have sprouted from such digressions.  In the case for unity, it is intrinsic to our people both in the homeland and in the Diaspora to co-exist under a banner of compromise and harmony in order to complete the mission of our Nation’s autonomy and worldwide recognition.  The name of Assyrian Chaldean Syriac encompasses this quest for unity, harmony, and survival.

I will no longer recognize nor listen to any religious person substiting division for unity in place of our name.  The name issue is done and over with.  If you are of Assyrian Babylonian descendentry and share the same culture and mother language as our people (Assyrian Chaldean Syriac Aramean, etc.), you are part of the all inclusive AssyrianChaldeanSyriac Nation!

I.E. I am Assyrian and part of the AssyrianChaldeanSyriac Nation
I.E. I associate with the Chaldean identity and am part of the AssyrianChaldeanSyriac Nation.
I.E. I am in the AssyrianChaldeanSyriac Nation and belong to the Syriac Orthodox Church

One Name, One Nation, One People.  It is truly sad when our national organizations (ADO and ADM) behave in a more Christian manner than our religious institutions who exclude other integral fabrics of our community from our name.

We cannot force those people that identify with the Chaldean label to adopt the Assyrian brand.  This goes the same to other sister labels.   However by creating a combined name that represents that divided fabrics in our society, we are leaving no room for begrudements and divisions.  We are, through a simple name, belittling and tearing down the walls set up by our unChristian and divisive Church fathers.

History repeats itself with Church heiarchy being currently heavily invovled within our Nation's progression and politics. 

Do they not have enough work in caring for the poor and destitute in Jordan, or the bombarded in Baghdad, or the jobless and uninsured emmigrants in the West, or the spiritually deficient in America? 

What about the church having an international renowned charity (not just a random specific meshkheta) or are they relying on the secular Assyrian Aid Society (the same AAS that recently instated twice-defrocked ACOE Qasha Emanoel Baito rashly criticizes in his "heavenly" sermons)?

What about the church building homes, daycare centers, irrigation canals, clinics/pharmacy, and orchards/farms for jobs in N. Iraq (which Zowaa and AAS are doing and have done) or are they too busy building a patriarchal self-serving compound in Irbel?


St. Matthew 22:21
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

I call on our Nation's Churches (Chaldean Rite, ACOE, Syriac Ortho/Catho, Maronite...) to distance itself from political matters for we have seen the consequences of their separatist and exclusive actions and instead to adopt and reinitiate the work that Our Lord has instructed the Church to do.

The Results of Church Interference
  • Assyrian
  • Chaldean
  • Syriac
  • Aramean
  • Maronite

A bishop from the ACOE even commented on this:

National Unity If the church leadership is so fired up for its nation as they portray in their speeches, then they should be the first to support the gathering of the different factions of our nation in one union to preserve and respect all its children in whatever identity they have used over the centuries. They should not favor one segment or name on the account of others and thus become the cause of hatred and disunity. They are all our identities and we have used them in different periods of our history.

Onward we go......

God Bless!!!






« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 03:26:51 AM by Senator_Danavi »

Offline Free_Assyria

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9383
  • Gender: Male
  • Free Occupied-Assyria
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2006, 03:18:46 AM »

I will no longer recognize nor listen to any religious person substiting division for unity in place of our name


Well said, ive said it before oil and water do not mix
religious leaders should not get involved in political issues. My father use to tell me all the time it is because of past and present priests we are so segregated i never use to agree with him but i was wrong.
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline RadRides

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6060
  • Gender: Male
  • bar-b-que-nin king
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2006, 03:27:00 AM »
What's also so hard for people to understand is that unity can be reached on both fronts.  Let religious leaders handle the church unity and politicians handle the other. 

Great post Joe. 

Offline Robert Khnanisho

  • Mid-Level Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2006, 09:52:57 AM »
Senator,

Are you dead set serious?

How can the Assyrian name be a division from the Assyrian Nation?

I like your list but I don't understand how Assyrian can be divided from Assyrian?

I would understand if you were to say that the Chaldean, Syriac, Aramean and Maronite Churches were divisions of the Assyrian Church as Church History Scholars would tell you.

Offline aka_Atour

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2006, 02:42:20 PM »
What about the church building homes, daycare centers, irrigation canals, clinics/pharmacy, and orchards/farms for jobs in N. Iraq (which Zowaa and AAS are doing and have done) or are they too busy building a patriarchal self-serving compound in Irbel?[/i]
It's amazing that with all the money they're raising none of it is being put to good use in Iraq, where our people need it most. Yet this church valiantly displays Assyrian in the church’s name, yet does nothing for its people in Iraq.

Offline Nuray

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2889
Re: Kurds and Assyrians have ALWAYS lived in Peace.........?????
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2006, 01:40:45 AM »
I can’t speak for others, but from my own experience of having been born and raised in Iraq for a significant part of my life, I’d say we lived in relative peace with our Muslim Arab neighbors.  And I can also honestly say without any hesitation that they were the most kind and sincere bunch of people I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing.  I remember we had these amazing neighbors who would have their sons cut a Christmas tree from their front yard and bring it to our house every year.  And in times of danger, when there would be thieves going around in our neighborhood, these people would try to convince us not to feel scared or threatened in the night time as they would be guarding and watching over our house.

And speaking of Kurds, when my ancestors escaped from Turkey, my great-grandfather, being a two year old child back then, was abandoned and thought to be lost forever.  Roughly eight years later, they found out that he was actually taken in and raised by a  nice Kurdish family. When the relatives came back to claim him, he was returned with any trouble.  Off course by then he had grown accustomed to being a Kurdish Muslim and his real family came across some difficulty trying to convince him that was not his true identity, but at least the Kurds had the decency to take care of him instead of just letting him wander around and probably eventually die.
,

 

Peace between assyrians and kurds.

Started by assyria12Board News & Current Events

Replies: 118
Views: 10707
Last post July 04, 2010, 09:04:53 PM
by mrzurnaci
Kurds claim indigeneity, kick assyrians out and claim oil as "theirs"

Started by GGBWBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 13
Views: 3084
Last post September 16, 2007, 11:41:35 AM
by Damail
First Person Who Requested Autonomy For Assyrians Killed By Kurds

Started by Moneer CherieBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 22
Views: 4056
Last post December 24, 2007, 01:22:11 AM
by Salem
Autonomy: The Only Hope for Assyrians to Have Peace in Iraq

Started by RumtayaBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 0
Views: 830
Last post November 10, 2008, 04:26:05 PM
by Rumtaya
Job oppurtunities for Assyrians & Kurds in Iraqi Kurdistan

Started by assyria12Board News & Current Events

Replies: 51
Views: 4285
Last post October 21, 2010, 01:58:04 PM
by assyria12