Author Topic: Change our name?  (Read 926 times)

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Offline Neta1991

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Change our name?
« on: April 25, 2017, 10:13:48 AM »
Why is our name assyrian when we should be called mesopotamians?



Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 04:51:47 PM »
What language do you speak? Is it a Mesopotamian language?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 05:31:17 PM »
What language do you speak? Is it a Mesopotamian language?

yes, l speak assyrian.

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 05:31:17 PM »

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 05:41:49 PM »
yes, l speak assyrian.
Is Assyrian a Mesopotamian language?

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 09:31:45 PM »
What I mean is that Aramaic was a language spoken by Jesus and his disciples. And I never knew that Jesus and his disciples were from Mesopotamia...

Offline Cascade

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 11:48:48 PM »
Assyrians are from Mesopotamia. Assyria is in Mesopotamia. And Mesopotamia is a region. That's like saying "why should we be called Italians when we can be called Europeans".

What I mean is that Aramaic was a language spoken by Jesus and his disciples. And I never knew that Jesus and his disciples were from Mesopotamia...
Aramaic was spoken in Mesopotamia nearly a thousand years before Jesus existed, by Assyrians, Arameans (who settled there) and Babylonians. At around 900BC, it became a lingua franca in the region. That's why people all the way in Galilee spoke it over Hebrew since it was the common language.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 01:07:53 AM »
Assyrians are from Mesopotamia. Assyria is in Mesopotamia. And Mesopotamia is a region. That's like saying "why should we be called Italians when we can be called Europeans".
Aramaic was spoken in Mesopotamia nearly a thousand years before Jesus existed, by Assyrians, Arameans (who settled there) and Babylonians. At around 900BC, it became a lingua franca in the region. That's why people all the way in Galilee spoke it over Hebrew since it was the common language.

Not to mention the fact that Persia made Aramaic the official language.

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 02:35:43 AM »
Assyrians are from Mesopotamia. Assyria is in Mesopotamia. And Mesopotamia is a region. That's like saying "why should we be called Italians when we can be called Europeans".
Aramaic was spoken in Mesopotamia nearly a thousand years before Jesus existed, by Assyrians, Arameans (who settled there) and Babylonians. At around 900BC, it became a lingua franca in the region. That's why people all the way in Galilee spoke it over Hebrew since it was the common language.
Aramaic was a native language of Arameans. Arameans were NOT native to the Mesopotamia!!! Am I telling lies?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 02:39:19 AM »
We are clearly the descendants of the ancient mesopotamians according to sharukinu thats why l am wondering this.....

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 02:45:56 AM »
We are clearly the descendants of the ancient mesopotamians according to sharukinu thats why l am wondering this.....
I do agree with you that of all modern people in the world, modern day Assyrians are actually closest people to the ancient people of the 'Lower' Mesopotamia

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 01:47:01 PM »

Aramaic was a native language of Arameans. Arameans were NOT native to the Mesopotamia!!! Am I telling lies?

Which is why Assyrians have their own major dialect of Aramaic, called Eastern Aramaic, that was adopted by the ancient Assyrians and has a very large influence of Akkadian to it.

I do agree with you that of all modern people in the world, modern day Assyrians are actually closest people to the ancient people of the 'Lower' Mesopotamia

Why thank you!

Offline Cascade

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 03:52:53 AM »
Aramaic was a native language of Arameans. Arameans were NOT native to the Mesopotamia!!! Am I telling lies?
Nobody said that Arameans are native to Mesopotamia.

Refer to my post again.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 01:05:34 PM »
Assyrian is precise since it refers to a particular ethnicity and lineage from which we descend whereas Mesopotamian is fairly vague. The Assyrians are mostly descendants of various peoples from throughout the Fertile Crescent (which includes Mesopotamia), the southern Caucasus, eastern Anatolia and the western Iranian Plateau. Over time, various peoples became Assyrianised, espoused one identity and merged into one gene pool. The ancestors of modern Assyrians united under the Assyrian identity and culture both nominally and quintessentially; they did not unite under a generic Mesopotamian identity.

Besides, Mesopotamia still exists -it's merely a region. Does that mean that any who come to inhabit our homeland become the same as us even if they remain culturally and genetically isolated and disparate.? The term Assyria is not only the one that we and our ancestors have endeared and marked as uniquely ours but it has often referred to a nation and the evolving domain its people held as apposed to a static geographical label like Mesopotamia. This shows how much more national significance the term Assyria had over Mesopotamia for our people, not that the land of Mesopotamia isn't precious to us.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:06:58 PM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2017, 09:07:54 AM »
Assyrian is precise since it refers to a particular ethnicity and lineage from which we descend whereas Mesopotamian is fairly vague. The Assyrians are mostly descendants of various peoples from throughout the Fertile Crescent (which includes Mesopotamia), the southern Caucasus, eastern Anatolia and the western Iranian Plateau. Over time, various peoples became Assyrianised, espoused one identity and merged into one gene pool. The ancestors of modern Assyrians united under the Assyrian identity and culture both nominally and quintessentially; they did not unite under a generic Mesopotamian identity.

Besides, Mesopotamia still exists -it's merely a region. Does that mean that any who come to inhabit our homeland become the same as us even if they remain culturally and genetically isolated and disparate.? The term Assyria is not only the one that we and our ancestors have endeared and marked as uniquely ours but it has often referred to a nation and the evolving domain its people held as apposed to a static geographical label like Mesopotamia. This shows how much more national significance the term Assyria had over Mesopotamia for our people, not that the land of Mesopotamia isn't precious to us.

When you say that they became assyrianised, do you mean that they became ancient assyrians? is that why our name is assyrians and not babylonians or akkadians etc?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2017, 09:53:51 AM »
People get confused when we say we are assyrians, they then think we mean that we are only descendants from the ancient assyrians and not the babylonians, akkadians , sumerians etc..... maybe we should be called something else.

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Change our name?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2017, 09:58:40 AM »
When you say that they became assyrianised, do you mean that they became ancient assyrians? is that why our name is assyrians and not babylonians or akkadians etc?

Virtually all nations are constantly evolving, new ones are being born and others are disappearing. These nations are absorbing new people and evolution is constantly changing the genome through various ways. The Assyrian identity, like any national identity, didn't always exist but it came from somewhere. At some point in time, some Mesopotamians (Akkadian-Sumerian stock) began referring to themselves as Assyrians.

Over time in antiquity, different peoples became a part of this group such as Amorites, Hurians (including the Mitanni), Urartains, Aramaeans, Hittites, Luwians etc. In fact, due to the deportation/importations policies of the Neo-Assyrian Empire, there were probably some sizeable importations of people from every nation in the Fertile Crescent as well as from nations in eastern Anatolia, the southern Caucasus and the western Iranian Plateau. Anyone who wasn't killed or rendered sterile was Assyrianised after being imported. It is well known that Assyria was very effective at Assyrianisation and conquered peoples of the second generation would have Assyrian names. It is believed that over-population in Mesopotamia was what led to the civil wars that were the catalyst to the South of Mesopotamia defecting under leadership from the city of Babylon. This empire also initially called itself Assyria as did all the other claimants however, it was eventually renamed Babylonia and allied itself to enemies of the preceding Assyrian government which had now split into pieces.

People get confused when we say we are assyrians, they then think we mean that we are only descendants from the ancient assyrians and not the babylonians, akkadians , sumerians etc..... maybe we should be called something else.
No, we shouldn't. Those races contributed to the gene pool of the Assyrians. We descend from the members of those races who were Assyrianised and espoused an Assyrian identity. Just because the English have diverse origins, doesn't mean they need a name change because they descend from various peoples who merged together and came to espouse an English identity.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

 

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