Author Topic: Who are assyrian  (Read 1272 times)

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Offline Neta1991

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Who are assyrian
« on: April 17, 2017, 12:46:41 PM »
I consider all people who speak aramaic as there first language as assyrian, am l wrong by doing This? Ma'loula, maronites all, even those that live in israel and are called arameans as assyrians. But in india there are syriac christians who speak aramaic, but those use Malayalam language as their first language so they are not assyrians, but indians. There Are no arameans left, when the assyrian empire accepted aramaic as their first language all in the assyrian empire spoke aramaic, every people of different nationality, all become assyrians. Thats why l have this view. Of course exception is used for those that belong to the syriac, chaldean,assyrian church and cant speak aramaic.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 12:55:07 PM by Neta1991 »



Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 02:05:32 PM »
only the Assyrians who speak Eastern Aramaic aka Syriac. the people of Ma'loula don't speak Syriac, they speak Western Aramaic. If I tried to speak to them, regardless whether I use Urmian or Turoyo dialect of Syriac, they will never understand me past a few vocabulary words. Syriac is classified under Eastern Aramaic. Eastern Aramaic refers to all the dialects of Mesopotamian Aramaic. Why? Because Syriac has Akkadian and Persian influence to it. Western Aramaic has more Greek and Arabic influence to it.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 02:06:58 PM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 02:42:35 PM »
only the Assyrians who speak Eastern Aramaic aka Syriac. the people of Ma'loula don't speak Syriac, they speak Western Aramaic. If I tried to speak to them, regardless whether I use Urmian or Turoyo dialect of Syriac, they will never understand me past a few vocabulary words. Syriac is classified under Eastern Aramaic. Eastern Aramaic refers to all the dialects of Mesopotamian Aramaic. Why? Because Syriac has Akkadian and Persian influence to it. Western Aramaic has more Greek and Arabic influence to it.

so if we dont understand it, l dont understand u either but still say we are the same people. Maloula are christians and they speak aramaic, and we also speak aramaic. Just because they were influenced by greeks doesnt make them less assyrian, when we get a country we will create a aramaic all can understand, and beside the ancient assyrians conquered that place and made it an assyrian province. I would love to see ALL aramaic speakers in one country.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 02:44:19 PM by Neta1991 »

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 02:42:35 PM »

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 02:52:48 PM »
Or we can take back classical syriac, which is a language we both could understand and which we both spoke before it split into two dialects.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 11:11:32 PM »
only the Assyrians who speak Eastern Aramaic aka Syriac. the people of Ma'loula don't speak Syriac, they speak Western Aramaic. If I tried to speak to them, regardless whether I use Urmian or Turoyo dialect of Syriac, they will never understand me past a few vocabulary words. Syriac is classified under Eastern Aramaic. Eastern Aramaic refers to all the dialects of Mesopotamian Aramaic. Why? Because Syriac has Akkadian and Persian influence to it. Western Aramaic has more Greek and Arabic influence to it.
Yes, but could western Aramaic speakers have Assyrian or Akkadian ancestry? If so, then they are technically Assyrian.

For instance, some Brits speak a Celtic language (such as Cornish in southeast England), but they're still ethnically English.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 12:35:04 AM »
So all that have syriac christianity are technically assyrian? Doesnt western aramaic have akkadian loanwords?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 12:37:27 AM »
Isnt mandean aramaic eastern aramaic?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 12:50:07 AM »
I think that all churches that use syriac should be assyrians, maronites, syriac church, assyrian church and chaldean church, except those in india.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 01:06:10 AM »
so if we dont understand it, l dont understand u either but still say we are the same people. Maloula are christians and they speak aramaic, and we also speak aramaic. Just because they were influenced by greeks doesnt make them less assyrian, when we get a country we will create a aramaic all can understand, and beside the ancient assyrians conquered that place and made it an assyrian province. I would love to see ALL aramaic speakers in one country.

What I mean is, Assyrians exclusively speak Syriac because Syriac is an Eastern Aramaic dialect. Eastern Aramaic refers to the dialect of Aramaic that was spoken in Mesopotamia. The Christians of Ma'loula are not Mesopotamian, they're Levantine. ancient Assyrians conquered the Levant but I don't think they colonized it.

I can probably safely say that the Christians of Ma'loula and even the Muslim villagers that live around them are what is left of the original Arameans.
The first Aramean kingdoms arose in the general area of Damascus and Ma'loula, Those that speak the Western Aramaic are truly the last of them. We are lucky that we were able to keep our Eastern Aramaic branch more alive and helping it thrive with technology thanks to George Kiraz!

So all that have syriac christianity are technically assyrian? Doesnt western aramaic have akkadian loanwords?

Why would Western Aramaic have Akkadian loanwords when Akkadians lived in what is Assyria and Babylonia?
If anything, Akkadian itself has Aramaic loanwords lol.

These definitions are what define who is Assyrian/Syriac and who is not.

1. ancestry or heritage going to Mesopotamia.
2. native or ancestral language is Syriac, which is a major, medieval dialect of Eastern Aramaic.
3. culture and history in concern with Mesopotamia.

Syriac was created in Mesopotamia, it would make very little sense for Christians in Ma'loula to speak Syriac unless they were Assyrian or they want to talk to Assyrians.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 01:41:40 AM »
Then maronites should be assyrians also because they speak syriac?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 01:43:37 AM »
I can probably safely say that the Christians of Ma'loula and even the Muslim villagers that live around them are what is left of the original Arameans. The first Aramean kingdoms arose in the general area of Damascus and Ma'loula, Those that speak the Western Aramaic are truly the last of them.
I agree with that.

A concoction of Aramean and Mesopotamian (since our empire reached there).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline carlos7ja

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 06:47:26 PM »
I consider all people who speak aramaic as there first language as assyrian, am l wrong by doing This? Ma'loula, maronites all, even those that live in israel and are called arameans as assyrians. But in india there are syriac christians who speak aramaic, but those use Malayalam language as their first language so they are not assyrians, but indians. There Are no arameans left, when the assyrian empire accepted aramaic as their first language all in the assyrian empire spoke aramaic, every people of different nationality, all become assyrians. Thats why l have this view. Of course exception is used for those that belong to the syriac, chaldean,assyrian church and cant speak aramaic.

Assyrian language doesnt matter, if they speak aramaic of different dialects that also doesnt make them assyrians. If you wanna know who is assyrian who is not, just ask for the name of his tribe. If the person still knows his history and blood line then he is one of us.

Theoretically some people still speak aramaic or syriac assyrian language in churchs maybe, but they may have lost connections with their assyrian tribes. Plus the church played a big role in dividing the people.

For example will your grand son still be called assyrian if he is like 100% into european culture and doesnt speak assyrian/has no idea about our history?
then i guess not, he lost the connection.
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 08:28:28 PM »
Assyrian language doesnt matter, if they speak aramaic of different dialects that also doesnt make them assyrians. If you wanna know who is assyrian who is not, just ask for the name of his tribe. If the person still knows his history and blood line then he is one of us.

Theoretically some people still speak aramaic or syriac assyrian language in churchs maybe, but they may have lost connections with their assyrian tribes. Plus the church played a big role in dividing the people.

For example will your grand son still be called assyrian if he is like 100% into european culture and doesnt speak assyrian/has no idea about our history?
then i guess not, he lost the connection.

and that's a bad way of looking at it. What if his grandson wants to know what it is to be Assyrian again but then he'll feel like he doesn't belong because he doesn't have the connection.

If an Assyrian loses the connection, rebuild the connection again.

Offline carlos7ja

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 01:10:02 PM »
and that's a bad way of looking at it. What if his grandson wants to know what it is to be Assyrian again but then he'll feel like he doesn't belong because he doesn't have the connection.

If an Assyrian loses the connection, rebuild the connection again.

well i have lived this situation, i lost connection to all of my big family and stopped learning assyrian at age of 12 due to change of surroundings and education, but then after a dacade i am here back by myself alone to rebuild the great connection. i am here to call myself assyrian with proud, whether god likes it or not, i am assyrian and no one can erase my identity!
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Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2017, 12:23:03 PM »
Do we see new babylonians aka chaldeans as assyrians because they destroyed the assyrian empire,  is the chaldean history assyrian?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2017, 01:04:24 PM »
Do we see new babylonians aka chaldeans as assyrians because they destroyed the assyrian empire,  is the chaldean history assyrian?
Modern Chaldeans aren't related to ancient Chaldeans. Modern Chaldeans are Assyrians who were originally part of the Church of the East but broke off and went into communion with Roman Catholic Church.

Ancient Chaldeans became part of Mesopotamian population prior to the Persians taking over Bavel.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2017, 01:37:24 PM »
Modern Chaldeans aren't related to ancient Chaldeans. Modern Chaldeans are Assyrians who were originally part of the Church of the East but broke off and went into communion with Roman Catholic Church.

Ancient Chaldeans became part of Mesopotamian population prior to the Persians taking over Bavel.

l meant are new babylonian history modern assyrian history? akkadian, old babylonian, sumerians are all assyrian history but are new babylonian history also assyrian history, because they destroyed the neo-assyrian empire together with the medes?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2017, 10:20:42 PM »
l meant are new babylonian history modern assyrian history? akkadian, old babylonian, sumerians are all assyrian history but are new babylonian history also assyrian history, because they destroyed the neo-assyrian empire together with the medes?

Yes it is Assyrian history, they're part of our heritage.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2017, 03:11:26 AM »
Why does wikipedia and other sites when mentioning us as our history being old assyrian empire-neo assyrian empire and never mention babylonian empire as our history, even though it is because we are merged with them?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2017, 03:33:48 AM »
Why does wikipedia and other sites when mentioning us as our history being old assyrian empire-neo assyrian empire and never mention babylonian empire as our history, even though it is because we are merged with them?


because babels identity merged with ours and became Assyrian itself. Assyrian refers not only to Assyria but the Mesopotamian civilization itself.

Why else did the Sassanid Persians call our native province "asuristan" (land of the Assyrians) ?




Offline Cascade

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Re: Who are assyrian
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2017, 03:38:15 AM »
Why does wikipedia and other sites when mentioning us as our history being old assyrian empire-neo assyrian empire and never mention babylonian empire as our history, even though it is because we are merged with them?
Because we are direct descendants of Assyrians/Akkadians, as they were based in northern hemisphere, where our homeland is. There's no need to include other cultures. Babylonian empire existed in central Iraq - We did not directly come from there, although we did disperse to that region. To put it simply, Babylonians are our "uncles", and ancient Assyrians/Akkadians are our "fathers", if that makes sense. Sumerians, you can say, are our "grandparents". But I would say that Sumerians gave rise to some modern day Arabs, Persians and Mandeans too - Not just Assyrians (as the patriotic Assyrian tends to think), and certainly not just only Iranid people (as folks like Ezedi Kurd think).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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