Author Topic: Assyrian identity  (Read 876 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Assyrian identity
« on: April 15, 2017, 12:51:44 PM »
Do you see suryoye as assyrians, Do you see indians from india that follows syriac tradition as assyrians, Do both the east assyrians and west have the same culture and tradition, are we the same people?  I already know our history, that suryoyo/suraye mean assyrian and so on......why does aramean nationalist consider themselves as arameans when as assyrian u are clearly also descendants of arameans, while aramean say we are only descendants of the arameans and that we are not the same people....



Offline Sharukinu

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 419
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 06:00:39 PM »
I think this has been addressed many times on this forum. Suryoye are West Assyrians. Suryoye means Assyrians and derives from the endonym Ashurayu. The dialect they speak descends from Assyrian dialects pf Aramaic spoken in the heart of ancient Assyrian homeland. West Assyrians are also genetically homogeneous with East Assyrians who also speak dialects of Aramaic which share the same origins. On a geographical level, both East and West Assyrians traditionally come from the former heart of the Assyrian homeland. Both East and West Assyrians use the same name to label themselves and each other despite that name having several variants - all of which descend from the endonym Ashurayu. Both East and West Assyrians have always been collectively grouped together by non-Assyrians and referred to as Assyrians in their respective equivalent terminology - eg, Asori, Assuryan/Suryan, Ashuriyun etc.

Assyrian paganism was even last practiced by West Assyrians during the Ottoman Empire. There was a monastery (I believe in Tur Abdin) which used to be a temple of the sun god, Shamash - a major Mesopotamian deity that was highly venerated by Akkadians (Assyrians and Babylonians) who called it Shamash and Sumerians who called it Utu.

The list goes on and on. I would recommend reading through some similar threads since it's been discussed in so much detail before.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 06:12:30 PM »
Ok, l have one question, when did east assyrians start to wear traditional clothes? West assyrians dont use them

Assyrian Voice Forum

Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 06:12:30 PM »

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 06:29:01 PM »
When did you start to celebrate akitu, assyrian new year? I have never celebrated it but want to, l dont understand your traditions

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 09:43:24 PM »
Ok, l have one question, when did east assyrians start to wear traditional clothes? West assyrians dont use them
Assyrians have always worn traditional clothing, just like other ethnic groups. It's a historical practice.

These West Assyrians you speak of probably have forgotten their cultural tradition. It's the same reason why so many Chaldeans (who are eastern Assyrians) listen mainly to Arabic music, speak Arabic and also don't care much for traditional clothing. I rarely see Chaldo-Assyrians wearing traditional clothes. Doesn't make them less of Assyrians though.

Not to sound controversial again, but you're the type of western Assyrian I have in mind when I speak about how "deviated" westerners are compared to easterners (I.e. Those who claim to be Aramean). You're not the first westerner to distant yourself with Assyrians.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 419
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 03:12:03 AM »
These West Assyrians you speak of probably have forgotten their cultural tradition. It's the same reason why so many Chaldeans (who are eastern Assyrians) listen mainly to Arabic music, speak Arabic and also don't care much for traditional clothing. I rarely see Chaldo-Assyrians wearing traditional clothes. Doesn't make them less of Assyrians though.

The Sefo (genocide) is largely to blame for this. We have to consider how much it devastated West Assyrians. My best friend is totally West Assyrian by blood but cannot speak the language because he paternally descends from an orphaned child who grew up without learning the language. These kinds of situations are so common that it has endangered not only their dialect but their identity. If a husband can't speak Surit whilst his wife can, the children will probably grow up without speaking and learning Surit since the parents will usually communicate in another language.

Not to sound controversial again, but you're the type of western Assyrian I have in mind when I speak about how "deviated" westerners are compared to easterners (I.e. Those who claim to be Aramean). You're not the first westerner to distant yourself with Assyrians.

There are just as much East Assyrians who are deviated. Over the past century, West Assyrians have excelled in producing great nationalists.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 04:51:47 AM »
There are just as much East Assyrians who are deviated.
These people tend to be Chaldean Catholics at most parts, though. Most Nestorian Assyrians are very aware and even patriotic when it comes to their ethnicity. Most of them speak Assyrian fluently, unless if they're brought up in the west.

The deviated ones usually tend to be those who have a non-Assyrian parent.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2017, 08:35:49 AM »
I think, as a 'Chaldean', I've been very fortunate to be brought up in a household that doesn't distinguish the two 'identities' with stringency and aggravation.

For the most part, my parents didn't really drill it into me that I was Chaldean or Assyrian; it was always very laid back. However, I'll admit my mother tends to differentiate between the two but my father acknowledges our Assyrian roots and even claims these fallacious identities need to be dismantled for us to unify and become a stronger force (very surprised when he told me this considering the type of attitudes put forth pertaining to this issue of 'identity').

My dad acknowledges 'Akitu' as our holiday and celebration as well, although he isn't passionate about attending but is always willing to take me and allow me to celebrate. As is my mother but unfortunately, she likes to refer to it as an 'Attouraya' celebration. In addition to this, my parents don't affiliate with the Chaldean flag and have many non-Chaldean friends.

So, for the most part, especially bearing in mind the extreme hatred one group can have for the other, I think I've been very lucky. Although my Surith is tainted with some Arabic, I've come to realise the tongue that non-Chaldeans speak has impure influences and contains loan words too. I think more importantly is that I'm making an effort, to whatever degree, I'm taking the initiative to learn and improve. It really doesn't take long for self perceived descendants of 'Chaldea' to understand the truth about their identity because there's formidable and incontestable evidence to suggest they're ethnic Assyrians (even the founder of the Chaldean Church was called an 'Assyrian Patriarch') but for the most part it's the initiative they're not willing to take on and it's the negligence they're not willing to get rid of.

However, at my school this really isn't a problem. All Chaldeans, at my school, choose to identify as Assyrians and it's great to see.

''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 12:36:16 PM »
http://www.aramnahrin.org/English/Testimonies-Aramean-scholars.htm

That website is why we are not united,  the suryoye look what their ancestors said about them.

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 09:44:43 PM »
I think, as a 'Chaldean', I've been very fortunate to be brought up in a household that doesn't distinguish the two 'identities' with stringency and aggravation.

For the most part, my parents didn't really drill it into me that I was Chaldean or Assyrian; it was always very laid back. However, I'll admit my mother tends to differentiate between the two but my father acknowledges our Assyrian roots and even claims these fallacious identities need to be dismantled for us to unify and become a stronger force (very surprised when he told me this considering the type of attitudes put forth pertaining to this issue of 'identity').

My dad acknowledges 'Akitu' as our holiday and celebration as well, although he isn't passionate about attending but is always willing to take me and allow me to celebrate. As is my mother but unfortunately, she likes to refer to it as an 'Attouraya' celebration. In addition to this, my parents don't affiliate with the Chaldean flag and have many non-Chaldean friends.

So, for the most part, especially bearing in mind the extreme hatred one group can have for the other, I think I've been very lucky. Although my Surith is tainted with some Arabic, I've come to realise the tongue that non-Chaldeans speak has impure influences and contains loan words too. I think more importantly is that I'm making an effort, to whatever degree, I'm taking the initiative to learn and improve. It really doesn't take long for self perceived descendants of 'Chaldea' to understand the truth about their identity because there's formidable and incontestable evidence to suggest they're ethnic Assyrians (even the founder of the Chaldean Church was called an 'Assyrian Patriarch') but for the most part it's the initiative they're not willing to take on and it's the negligence they're not willing to get rid of.

However, at my school this really isn't a problem. All Chaldeans, at my school, choose to identify as Assyrians and it's great to see.
Very good of your family. I'm glad that there are Chaldeans who identify as Assyrian.

Wait, you still go to school? You seem really mature and smart for your age. I thought you were in your mid-20s.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 10:46:02 PM »
I'm in Year 12 and suffocating under the burden of the HSC, but thanks.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6076
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 01:49:13 AM »
Assyrians have always worn traditional clothing, just like other ethnic groups. It's a historical practice.

These West Assyrians you speak of probably have forgotten their cultural tradition. It's the same reason why so many Chaldeans (who are eastern Assyrians) listen mainly to Arabic music, speak Arabic and also don't care much for traditional clothing. I rarely see Chaldo-Assyrians wearing traditional clothes. Doesn't make them less of Assyrians though.

Not to sound controversial again, but you're the type of western Assyrian I have in mind when I speak about how "deviated" westerners are compared to easterners (I.e. Those who claim to be Aramean). You're not the first westerner to distant yourself with Assyrians.


https://www.google.com/search?q=suryoyo+traditional+clothing&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3r7Sv5KrTAhXrzIMKHdstDR4Q_AUICCgB&biw=1296&bih=642



http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=39894.0 == "Assyrain traditional clothes, "Youtube"

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6076
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 01:30:32 PM »

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 10:36:31 PM »
Tdur Abdinayen eh? here.

http://badshah-cornelius.tumblr.com/post/121274763463/aegean-okra-tur-abdin-assyrian-heartland-the

Well, quote the OP. He's the who said Westerners don't wear traditional clothing. A few do. Doesn't many the lot of them do so.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6076
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 01:11:11 AM »
Well, quote the OP. He's the who said Westerners don't wear traditional clothing. A few do. Doesn't many the lot of them do so.
Prtty sure they'd dress very similarly though, I mean 100+ years ago all Assyrians not in Iraq lived pretty much next door to each other on a villager basis.

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2017, 05:42:28 AM »
Prtty sure they'd dress very similarly though, I mean 100+ years ago all Assyrians not in Iraq lived pretty much next door to each other on a villager basis.
But western Assyrians were not from Iraq.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6076
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 09:18:34 PM »
But western Assyrians were not from Iraq.
missing the point.

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4659
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Assyrian identity
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 11:33:25 PM »
missing the point.
I know. I misread "NOT in Iraq". I thought you meant IN IRAQ.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

The Struggle for Assyrian Identity... a movie in the making

Started by ~*Merooona*~Board Chit Chat

Replies: 12
Views: 1464
Last post June 29, 2006, 12:44:13 PM
by Free_Assyria
Assyrian - The Struggle for Identity

Started by DonyaBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 4
Views: 525
Last post December 07, 2006, 09:43:59 AM
by Donya
Assyrian - The Struggle for Identity ~ presentation ~

Started by assyrian_dudeBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 23
Views: 4177
Last post April 02, 2007, 11:53:37 AM
by assyrian_dude
Assyrian identity timeline

Started by chaldeanBoard Culture & History

Replies: 5
Views: 1719
Last post August 09, 2007, 09:02:47 PM
by chaldean
Assyrian - The Struggle for Identity

Started by AlucardBoard Culture & History

Replies: 19
Views: 5202
Last post January 28, 2009, 04:38:54 PM
by khilya