Author Topic: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?  (Read 6758 times)

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Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2016, 11:40:58 PM »
You are sounding like those whites in Europe who don't want to accept Assyrian refugees into their countries.
and?

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2016, 12:42:22 AM »
and?

...

It's hypocritical to say that.

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2016, 12:59:14 AM »
...

It's hypocritical to say that.
What's hypocritical? You are assuming I support Assyrian refugees going into Europe, which I do not. This not only damages the demographics of Europeans, but it also damages ours. Europeans have every right to oppose immigration, no matter who it is. The more Assyrians going into Europe, the less concentration we will have in our homelands. They can easily go to another location and wait to go back when it's right, but because countries like Germany and Sweden are giving free sh*t, they will obviously go there. Which I don't blame them, everyone wants the easy way out right?, but these are the consequences of it, unfortunately. For example most of my relatives have gone to Germany and guess what? My entire village is empty now and I have nothing to go back to.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 01:01:57 AM by Anid »

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2016, 12:59:14 AM »

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2016, 01:02:21 AM »
You said we should let Ezidis in because they are not Muslim, i'm saying the religion is irrelevant because Ezidis are still their own group of people. Whether they are Kurdish or not, why should we have them in our country in the first place? They can freely live in Kurdistan or form their own country if they want. Assyria for the Assyrians.

This whole idea of diversity and everyone coming together is what destroyed our glorious empire.

The guy in this video pretty much get's it. Go to 1:27 :)
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The man from that video is wrong about Assyrians. Babylonians were like modern day America -they were very diverse there. Assyrians were quite racist...only Aramaean immigrants, among certain other people of long standing Anatolian and Caucasian colonies, were treated as equals because they had the same culture.

The Akkadian Assyrians famously got along with the Aramean immigrants (naturalised Assyrians) who had a very similar culture. They already worshipped Assyrian Gods (including Ashur) and loved serving in the Assyrian military which was a major catalyst in the rapid expansions of the Neo-Assyrian Empire. Their contribution to the military quickly made Aramaean a lingu franca of the Assyrian army (and eventually the homeland as these soldiers settled in their new homes). Assyrians lost their Empire due to having a coalition of numerous enemies that attacked them whilst there were a series of internal rebellions. These rebellions included the Babylonian rebellion to the south as well as a few different Assyrian generals fighting each other in the North. Assyria fragmented when it was fighting nearly everyone of it's neighbors (except vassals and tributary states).
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2016, 01:06:16 AM »
The man from that video is wrong about Assyrians. Babylonians were like modern day America -they were very diverse there. Assyrians were quite racist...only Aramaean immigrants, among certain other people of long standing Anatolian and Caucasian colonies, were treated as equals because they had the same culture.

The Akkadian Assyrians famously got along with the Aramean immigrants (naturalised Assyrians) who had a very similar culture. They already worshipped Assyrian Gods (including Ashur) and loved serving in the Assyrian military which was a major catalyst in the rapid expansions of the Neo-Assyrian Empire. Their contribution to the military quickly made Aramaean a lingu franca of the Assyrian army (and eventually the homeland as these soldiers settled in their new homes). Assyrians lost their Empire due to having a coalition of numerous enemies that attacked them whilst there were a series of internal rebellions. These rebellions included the Babylonian rebellion to the south as well as a few different Assyrian generals fighting each other in the North. Assyria fragmented when it was fighting nearly everyone of it's neighbors (except vassals and tributary states).

This is because we influenced them with the fear of violence.

http://therightstuff.biz/2016/01/27/meet-the-new-semites-same-as-the-old-semites/

Offline Cascade

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2016, 01:18:01 AM »
What's hypocritical? You are assuming I support Assyrian refugees going into Europe, which I do not. This not only damages the demographics of Europeans, but it also damages ours. Europeans have every right to oppose immigration, no matter who it is. The more Assyrians going into Europe, the less concentration we will have in our homelands. They can easily go to another location and wait to go back when it's right, but because countries like Germany and Sweden are giving free sh*t, they will obviously go there. Which I don't blame them, everyone wants the easy way out right?, but these are the consequences of it, unfortunately. For example most of my relatives have gone to Germany and guess what? My entire village is empty now and I have nothing to go back to.
I understand your point, but aren't we more safer and prosperous outside the Middle East? Our quality of life has always been higher in a western country. Speaking of which, most of the highly educated, prestigious, Assyrians dwell in a western country.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2016, 01:22:30 AM »
I understand your point, but aren't we more safer and prosperous outside the Middle East? Our quality of life has always been higher in a western country. Speaking of which, most of the highly educated, prestigious, Assyrians dwell in a western country.
That is true. Of course our quality of life will improve in western countries, but from a nationalist standpoint, it damages our cause. Especially since our goal is to obtain a homeland for our own.

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2016, 01:42:49 AM »
This is because we influenced them with the fear of violence.

http://therightstuff.biz/2016/01/27/meet-the-new-semites-same-as-the-old-semites/


Not far into the article and it's made a very misleading claim. The second paragraph correctly says:

"Conquered people generally didn't enjoy being lorded over by foreign regimes who worshiped bizarre gods, spoke a strange language, and held divergent beliefs on morality and culture. Because of this inborn hostility to alien cultures, a prominent trait in the Middle East that has managed to persist even to this day, most tribes and lands would naturally rebel if given the chance."

However, it makes a very misleading claim as it continues into the topic sentence of the third paragraph:

"So what was the Neo-Assyrian Empire's response? The simple solution was to pacify and disarm subjects via mass immigration."

Assyians did used mass immigration, but not in the sense that the reader might be thinking.

Assyrians constantly deported people...but not necessarily into the "Yolk of Ashur" (Assyrian homeland). The deportation tactics were mostly implemented so that the various outskirts of the Assyrian Empire would consist of such a diverse mix of people that neither one of them could form a large enough presence to lead a rebellion against Assyria. Those who were sent to Assyria were carefully selected and forcibly assimilated. Most such people would have naturalised fairly quickly. Slaves would have mostly been placed in individual households and thus would have been largely incapable of forming enclaves.

For example, when Assyria conquered Elam, they virtually annihilated the Elamites except for the musicians they took back to the homeland and placed in various (mostly aristocratic) households as slaves/servants. They undoubtedly naturalised quickly and never formed an Elamite enclave within Assyria. This was practically the case for all other cultures who were different to the Assyrians. They either weren't imported or we never hear of them again for the ones that were.

Furthermore, anyone who genuinely became Assyrianised as a result of these policies would have blended into the Assyrian society. There are barely any internal sectarian issues driven by race/ethnicity in the heart of the Assyrian Empires. The blunt of racial/ethnic alienation and hostility between Assyrians and others was met outside the Assyrian homeland.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2016, 01:48:43 AM »
Not far into the article and it's made a very misleading claim. The second paragraph correctly says:

"Conquered people generally didn't enjoy being lorded over by foreign regimes who worshiped bizarre gods, spoke a strange language, and held divergent beliefs on morality and culture. Because of this inborn hostility to alien cultures, a prominent trait in the Middle East that has managed to persist even to this day, most tribes and lands would naturally rebel if given the chance."

However, it makes a very misleading claim as it continues into the topic sentence of the third paragraph:

"So what was the Neo-Assyrian Empire's response? The simple solution was to pacify and disarm subjects via mass immigration."

Assyians did used mass immigration, but not in the sense that the reader might be thinking.

Assyrians constantly deported people...but not necessarily into the "Yolk of Ashur" (Assyrian homeland). The deportation tactics were mostly implemented so that the various outskirts of the Assyrian Empire would consist of such a diverse mix of people that neither one of them could form a large enough presence to lead a rebellion against Assyria. Those who were sent to Assyria were carefully selected and forcibly assimilated. Most such people would have naturalised fairly quickly. Slaves would have mostly been placed in individual households and thus would have been largely incapable of forming enclaves.

For example, when Assyria conquered Elam, they virtually annihilated the Elamites except for the musicians they took back to the homeland and placed in various (mostly aristocratic) households as slaves/servants. They undoubtedly naturalised quickly and never formed an Elamite enclave within Assyria. This was practically the case for all other cultures who were different to the Assyrians. They either weren't imported or we never hear of them again for the ones that were.

Furthermore, anyone who genuinely became Assyrianised as a result of these policies would have blended into the Assyrian society. There are barely any internal sectarian issues driven by race/ethnicity in the heart of the Assyrian Empires. The blunt of racial/ethnic alienation and hostility between Assyrians and others was met outside the Assyrian homeland.
Fair enough. I am not a history expert so I will have to take your word for it, though his point still stands. One of the main reasons the Middle East is in this huge mess is because we are a giant ethnic/religious clusterf*ck. We are no longer in those days where we have the power (as Assyrians) to influence entire groups of people and dramatically shift the region into our hands. Whether it was Assyria, Babylon or Rome. It is a good example for how things might come about, as history does repeat itself (for the most part).

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2016, 02:20:15 AM »
Fair enough. I am not a history expert so I will have to take your word for it, though his point still stands. One of the main reasons the Middle East is in this huge mess is because we are a giant ethnic/religious clusterf*ck. We are no longer in those days where we have the power (as Assyrians) to influence entire groups of people and dramatically shift the region into our hands. Whether it was Assyria, Babylon or Rome. It is a good example for how things might come about, as history does repeat itself (for the most part).

Although I believe this is true, I can't say for sure if this mess isn't 99% Islam. If Islam wasn't around, the history of the Middle East would have probably been completely different. It might be like Europe or even better. It's too long of a time span to make that judgement. I would say Non-Muslim Middle Easterners get along quite well. Muzzies kill Muzzies (and everyone else) for any reason they can find.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:20:58 AM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2016, 02:24:40 AM »
Although I believe this is true, I can't say for sure if this mess isn't 99% Islam. If Islam wasn't around, the history of the Middle East would have probably been completely different. It might be like Europe or even better. It's too long of a time span to make that judgement. I would say Non-Muslim Middle Easterners get along quite well. Muzzies kill Muzzies (and everyone else) for any reason they can find.
True

Offline Cascade

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2016, 03:18:12 AM »
That is true. Of course our quality of life will improve in western countries, but from a nationalist standpoint, it damages our cause. Especially since our goal is to obtain a homeland for our own.
I've said it before here numerous of times, if our homeland was much more northernmost, such as around the Caucasus and the Black Sea, then I would've been a major supporter for an independent Assyrian nation. We would be much safer in that region for starters, since we would be far from enemies. The region in Northern Iraq is considerably dangerous and insidious, as we're on the doorstep of ISIS.

I guess you can call it dumb luck that our homeland is situated in the heart of terror.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Anid

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2016, 06:19:34 AM »
I've said it before here numerous of times, if our homeland was much more northernmost, such as around the Caucasus and the Black Sea, then I would've been a major supporter for an independent Assyrian nation. We would be much safer in that region for starters, since we would be far from enemies. The region in Northern Iraq is considerably dangerous and insidious, as we're on the doorstep of ISIS.

I guess you can call it dumb luck that our homeland is situated in the heart of terror.
Iraq is dangerous for us because we don't have our own borders. If we had one, those rats wouldn't of dared to come to our lands. They knew we didn't have security, they knew it would be (sort of) a walk in the park for them. People say most of ISIS are foreigners, I say at least half of them are Sunni Iraqis that have always had a deep hatred for us and to wipe us out. Only now Zowaa has developed the NPU and I ponder why they didn't do the NPU a long time ago?  :hmmm:

But I agree, we're not so lucky with the region.

Offline Cascade

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2016, 07:46:43 AM »
Iraq is dangerous for us because we don't have our own borders. If we had one, those rats wouldn't of dared to come to our lands. They knew we didn't have security, they knew it would be (sort of) a walk in the park for them. People say most of ISIS are foreigners, I say at least half of them are Sunni Iraqis that have always had a deep hatred for us and to wipe us out. Only now Zowaa has developed the NPU and I ponder why they didn't do the NPU a long time ago?  :hmmm:

But I agree, we're not so lucky with the region.
Yes, many of them are definitely Iraqis. I heard a couple of ISIS fighters speak and they usually sound Iraqi, or at least from the Gulf states.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2016, 04:12:26 PM »
That's kind of a bad idea. Having racial segregation laws would cause more problems than having assimilation laws.

What we should do is entice foreigners to become citizens.

Also, we need to give Assyria a different name or else it'll too confusing for us.

Why not name it to Country of Mesopotamia? or Country of Ashur?

We can call ethnic Assyrians as ashuraye and non-Assyrians as ashurnaye

We should call ourselves suroye/suraye and this is the name we ALWAYS called ourselves from the beginning, never othoroyo/athuraya, only suroyo/suraya. We also know that suroyo/suraya means assyrian.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2016, 12:57:19 AM »
We should call ourselves suroye/suraye and this is the name we ALWAYS called ourselves from the beginning, never othoroyo/athuraya, only suroyo/suraya. We also know that suroyo/suraya means assyrian.
why not go both ways and use "shuraye"?

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2016, 02:17:46 PM »
We should call ourselves suroye/suraye and this is the name we ALWAYS called ourselves from the beginning, never othoroyo/athuraya, only suroyo/suraya. We also know that suroyo/suraya means assyrian.

Actually, they are all very old terms that come from variants that were used in ancient Assyria. They all mean the exact same thing.

The word "Ashur" developed two different versions: "Asur" and "Athur". Due to an ancient linguistic shift, the short "A's" at the beginning's of words were dropped in many Assyrian Aramaic words. Before this shift, the Ashur and Athur variants had evolved to have a long "a" sound at the beginning (as we pronounce it today) ie "aashur" and "aathur" ...therefore, the "A" was never dropped. The variant "Asur" never developed the long "A" sound and therefore it was dropped altogether, forming the root "Sur".


Suraye/Suroyoye, Ashuraye/Ashuroye, Othuroye/Athuraye etc all refer to the exact same people.

Words like "Presbitraye" "Chaldaye" etc refer to religious groups only; the modern usage of "Chaldaye" is strictly used to describe Catholic East Assyrians. Words like Nochiaye, Julwaye etc refer to artificial provincial (millet) groups only.

"Nisttoraaya"  is a totally useless term - it is a religious term that has historically never been applied correctly and still serves no purpose today. "Nisttoraaya" was used to refer to Assyrians from the Church of the East (especially the ones who refused to convert to Catholicism) in order to portray them as followers of Nestorius, which was not the case at all.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 02:19:24 PM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Cascade

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Re: If we had a country, would you consider foreign citizens "Assyrian"?
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2017, 11:17:48 PM »
We should call ourselves suroye/suraye and this is the name we ALWAYS called ourselves from the beginning, never othoroyo/athuraya, only suroyo/suraya. We also know that suroyo/suraya means assyrian.
They all mean the same thing. They're just spelled differently thanks to the dialects.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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