Author Topic: Maronites are Assyrians  (Read 13829 times)

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Offline Micho

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Maronites are Assyrians
« on: January 30, 2010, 08:55:23 AM »
Maronites are also originally assyrians too. They are originally from Antioch/Tur Abdin and when some assyrians later started to follow the way of syriac-orthodox monk S:t Marons way of christianity they weren't welcome anymore by the jacobites and got persecuted so they left Antioch and Tur Abdin and left for Syria and later Lebanon.

But not all Maronites forefathers today were assyrians some probably were converted inhabitors of Lebanon (which were NOT arabs). Though they have mostly assyrian blood.

They should be counted in to the assyrian population because then we are up to 5-7 million assyrians in the world.



Offline Y. Mackay

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 09:31:46 AM »
Assyrians are those who call them selves Assyrian/Aturaye/Asuraye/Suryaye/Chaldaye/Ashuraye.

Offline Micho

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 09:44:39 AM »
Only reason they call themselfs Maronites is because they call themselfs after SYRIAC-orthodox monk S:t Maron.

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 09:44:39 AM »

Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 11:03:43 AM »
Only reason they call themselfs Maronites is because they call themselfs after SYRIAC-orthodox monk S:t Maron.

Yes, this is true. Maronites are Assyrians who used to follow the Syriac Orthodox Church. Chamille Chamoun and Bachire Gemayel are two of many Maronite leaders who were proud of their Assyrian ancestry :) Most LF members are aware of their Assyrian heritage.
“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

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Offline Forever Assyrian

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 12:12:04 PM »
Sure, maybe St Maron was Assyrian, but I don't think all Maronites today are Assyrian. Probably a mix of Phoenicians and Assyrians.
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Offline Micho

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 12:15:36 PM »
Yeah, they are not fully Assyrians I think. Defiently not but the original maronites were assyrians who later went to Lebanon and converted the inhabitants there. The inhabitants at Lebanon back then was probably canaanites (which the phonecians were). The maronites should identify themselfs as assyrians mostly.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 12:16:48 PM by Micho »

Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 08:36:33 AM »
Yeah, they are not fully Assyrians I think. Defiently not but the original maronites were assyrians who later went to Lebanon and converted the inhabitants there. The inhabitants at Lebanon back then was probably canaanites (which the phonecians were). The maronites should identify themselfs as assyrians mostly.

As long as people that are aware of the Assyrian nation and Assyria the Maronites will in time once again return to their Assyrian nation and realise that Lebanon mixed with Arabs was a failure.
“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

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Offline Carlo

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 10:09:13 AM »
I remember watching a video about a conference on this exact subject a while back. Anyway, don't Maronites use Syriac in their church liturgy like the rest of us? :)

Offline Rita Lazar

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 11:52:17 AM »
I remember watching a video about a conference on this exact subject a while back. Anyway, don't Maronites use Syriac in their church liturgy like the rest of us? :)

Yes they do. My family goes to a Maronite church in Los Angeles and they use Lebanese Arabic and English for the Gospel reading, prayers, and hymns but they use Syriac for the Eucharist hymn/prayer. I can understand almost all of it..I mean I could when I used to go lol.
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Offline Westassyrian

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 12:57:19 PM »
The Maronites are Western Assyrians like myself belonging to the Syriac Orthodox church but they belong to the Maronite Syriac church. Some Libanese Maronites in Sweden are describing themselv as Assyrians and some of them are saying Syriacs but the majority are saying Libanese Maronites.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 12:58:30 PM by Westassyrian »

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 01:03:16 PM »
As far as I know 5% of the Maronite Church identify themselves as Assyrians and Syriacs.
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Tambur

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 06:25:20 PM »
I don't consider them Assyrian simply because they're not and the vast majority of them don't acknowledge it, also for those who do acknowledge the roots, they say Assyrians are only one part of their ancestors, while the Phonecians make up the majority, heck there are more Maronites who claim to be Aramean, and for them I think the title is legit.

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 09:07:35 PM »
Guys why do we complicate this subject? An Assyrian is a person who calls himself Assyrian
plain and simple. Whoever has Assyrian roots and denies it well that’s his back luck sayonara.
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2010, 03:28:19 AM »
Well said, Assyrianism.
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline tihe-othur

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2010, 05:37:22 PM »
they arent arab nor phoenician. the famous lebanese singer fairouz is syrian orthodox from mardin. thus assyrian.

if we count maronites as assyrians, then there are 30 - 40 million + assyrians in the middle east by blood/dna. but not in nationality.

a large portion of syrian arabs, semitic muslims in turkey, arab and kurds in iraq/turkey andso on... are assyrian by origin.

basically you are assyrian if you call yourselve that way.  same goed for kurd, arab, turk identity. it is all mixed in the middle east. almost every semitic person (arabs from peninsula not counted) can adopt the assyrian identity again.

Offline Micho

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 05:57:27 PM »
No, that is not true.  What I am saying is that the original maronites atleast were assyrians. They came from Tur Abdin and Antioch. Maronites got faaaaar more assyrian blood than any other semitic people (except us lol). They got some canaanite blood of course (defiently not arab since there is no real arabs in the levant or Mesopotamia) but if they see theirselfs as assyrians than I also see them as assyrians. But I think it's pure bull**** that if a lets say... an arab or a greek person calls themselfs assyrians and then they are assyrian, it's absolutely not that way. I don't give a f*ck about what they call themselfs but they are not assyrian.

Oh and I think the syrians are actually mostly aramean. Just arabified. The syrian catholics of Maloula are maybe also that. They speak a whole other dialect than us west and east-assyrians. West and east-assyrians dialect are in the eastern-aramaic family and theirs are in the western.

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 04:26:48 AM »
...But I think it's pure bull**** that if a lets say... an arab or a greek person calls themselfs assyrians and then they are assyrian, it's absolutely not that way. I don't give a f*ck about what they call themselfs but they are not assyrian...


3. definition - subjective criteria:

- The will of the people to be a nation

Every individual has the right to admit him/herself to a nation.
But the nation can´t be defined only by the will of individulas because of mood swings of (unqualified) individuals and than the inhabitans of a nation had to make every day or every year an election whether they are or belong to the nation or not.
The will must be in form of the result of elections in parliamentary units.

http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 04:27:14 AM by John_86 »
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline tihe-othur

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 03:55:13 PM »
yazidi and zazas and millions of kurds aren;t really kurds, but do share lots of the same ancestry and gettingh labeled as kurds.

basically you shouyld unite all christians in the midde east except for armenians and other non semitic ones. call them all assyrian/syriacs. do not say i consider you as non-assyrian. do the opposite and groups of them willl learn to do so. if we get a christian/assyrian region in iraq, the first thing to do is unite everybody.

unfortunately kurds ans arabs know that an assyrian autonomy can do only one thing, become bigger and bigger, and that;s why they aren;t letting us do that. they just know the region will grow. every iraq of assyrian blood will be able to become assyrian/christian again and live a live without islam. so belive me they know this and will prevent it. the region will be rich, and poor maronites or rich ones and other can come there. live/study/invest... all the things they (muslims) don't want us to do.

------

most nations in the world accept they sons from the dispora back. armeniand from the US can get armenian id immediately. greeks to. evey nation, except lebanon. because the majoriy of lebanesen (90%) is christian. in lebanon muslims are. if the country accepted lebanese back. millions would return. from brazil, mexico and ivest there,, it;s all about religion and stuff. do some research and find it out yourself.that

Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2010, 04:17:41 PM »
they arent arab nor phoenician. the famous lebanese singer fairouz is syrian orthodox from mardin. thus assyrian.

if we count maronites as assyrians, then there are 30 - 40 million + assyrians in the middle east by blood/dna. but not in nationality.

a large portion of syrian arabs, semitic muslims in turkey, arab and kurds in iraq/turkey andso on... are assyrian by origin.

basically you are assyrian if you call yourselve that way.  same goed for kurd, arab, turk identity. it is all mixed in the middle east. almost every semitic person (arabs from peninsula not counted) can adopt the assyrian identity again.

I've heard that Fairuz is an Assyrian of the Syriac Orthodox Church but then converted to Melkite Orthodoxy due to her marriage. Do you have a reference of her Assyrian heritage?
“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

-Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2010, 10:54:33 AM »
So with Carlos Slim being a Maronite Catholic from Lebanon, the richest man on the planet could very well have a hint of Assyrianism in him ;)

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Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2010, 11:16:21 AM »
So with Carlos Slim being a Maronite Catholic from Lebanon, the richest man on the planet could very well have a hint of Assyrianism in him ;)

ASHOOR

His father was a Assyrian who fled from Mardin, Turabdin during the Seyfo Genocide :)
“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

-Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Tears of Assyria

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2010, 12:05:00 PM »
it does not matter if they are Assyrian or not, as long as they dont admitt it , it wont make any difference for us
just like Chaldean and syriac

Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2010, 07:36:13 AM »
Maronites are also originally assyrians too. They are originally from Antioch/Tur Abdin and when some assyrians later started to follow the way of syriac-orthodox monk S:t Marons way of christianity they weren't welcome anymore by the jacobites and got persecuted so they left Antioch and Tur Abdin and left for Syria and later Lebanon.

But not all Maronites forefathers today were assyrians some probably were converted inhabitors of Lebanon (which were NOT arabs). Though they have mostly assyrian blood.

They should be counted in to the assyrian population because then we are up to 5-7 million assyrians in the world.

the question here is does they considering themselves as Assyrians? no? of course no cause they are proud being libanes. I know some marioniets from Lebanon they just laugh at us when we see them as Assyrian.

Offline Micho

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2010, 03:29:12 PM »
Quote
His father was a Assyrian who fled from Mardin, Turabdin during the Seyfo Genocide

Really? It stands in Wikipedia (I know, it can be wrong) that he is Maronite. Shouldn't he be syriac-orthodox?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 03:29:38 PM by Micho »

Offline dok101

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2010, 11:27:29 PM »
The one Maronite on 23andMe, based on his position in the Assyrian Autosomal DNA Project comparison sheet, https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AksEb_ijCNKYdGNTSFhiVGVOSGhRN2s4TGJBaDM2UHc&hl=en, is doing his best to support the Assyrian-Maronite connection.  As you can see, he shares more with Assyrians than most Assyrians share with other Assyrians.  This is out of ~275 people of diverse ethnic/racial backgrounds. 


Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2010, 06:11:28 PM »
yazidi and zazas and millions of kurds aren;t really kurds, but do share lots of the same ancestry and gettingh labeled as kurds.

basically you shouyld unite all christians in the midde east except for armenians and other non semitic ones. call them all assyrian/syriacs. do not say i consider you as non-assyrian. do the opposite and groups of them willl learn to do so. if we get a christian/assyrian region in iraq, the first thing to do is unite everybody.

unfortunately kurds ans arabs know that an assyrian autonomy can do only one thing, become bigger and bigger, and that;s why they aren;t letting us do that. they just know the region will grow. every iraq of assyrian blood will be able to become assyrian/christian again and live a live without islam. so belive me they know this and will prevent it. the region will be rich, and poor maronites or rich ones and other can come there. live/study/invest... all the things they (muslims) don't want us to do.

------

most nations in the world accept they sons from the dispora back. armeniand from the US can get armenian id immediately. greeks to. evey nation, except lebanon. because the majoriy of lebanesen (90%) is christian. in lebanon muslims are. if the country accepted lebanese back. millions would return. from brazil, mexico and ivest there,, it;s all about religion and stuff. do some research and find it out yourself.that

the thing with these yazidis and zaza they have kurdish as language and even their cultur are very simailar as kurdish but I wish all marioniets could consider themselevs as Assyrians but the truth is they dont, thats the hard part..

Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2010, 08:18:16 AM »
the thing with these yazidis and zaza they have kurdish as language and even their cultur are very simailar as kurdish but I wish all marioniets could consider themselevs as Assyrians but the truth is they dont, thats the hard part..

Actually Zaza people speak Zazaki which is in linguistics considered as an independent language from Kurmanji and Sorani. Zaza people are also split, some see themselves as Turks but most do see themselves as Kurds or simply Zazakis.

Yazidis are more Assyrian in culture than Kurdish and an Assyrian ancestry of the Yezidis is academically more supported than a Kurdish one.

Maronites are pure Assyrians, who have until the 18th century spoken western Assyrian daily and til this day have kept it as their liturgy language. They are proud people and among our finest and were able to resist both the Arabs conquests and kept an autonomy within the Ottoman Empire. We need to embrace them as our own as they are originally a part of the nation, whether we want it or not.
“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

-Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2010, 10:27:52 AM »
Actually Zaza people speak Zazaki which is in linguistics considered as an independent language from Kurmanji and Sorani. Zaza people are also split, some see themselves as Turks but most do see themselves as Kurds or simply Zazakis.

Yazidis are more Assyrian in culture than Kurdish and an Assyrian ancestry of the Yezidis is academically more supported than a Kurdish one.

Maronites are pure Assyrians, who have until the 18th century spoken western Assyrian daily and til this day have kept it as their liturgy language. They are proud people and among our finest and were able to resist both the Arabs conquests and kept an autonomy within the Ottoman Empire. We need to embrace them as our own as they are originally a part of the nation, whether we want it or not.

well I meet some zazaki in Germany, they were friends of my cousins and according them they speak kurmanji but little bit differents than the rest of the kurmanji speaker...


Yaizidi? what language they speak home? as far I know and I have friends in Malmö but also in Stockholm they speak kurdish and have kurdish as language, clutur and tradition I dont know but you will see them more kurds than like us believe me...

Offline Hanuni

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 08:19:56 AM »
well I meet some zazaki in Germany, they were friends of my cousins and according them they speak kurmanji but little bit differents than the rest of the kurmanji speaker...


Yaizidi? what language they speak home? as far I know and I have friends in Malmö but also in Stockholm they speak kurdish and have kurdish as language, clutur and tradition I dont know but you will see them more kurds than like us believe me...

Zazi is as previously stated an independent language, but it can be included into the various Kurdish languages due to it's similarities with Kurmanji. If two genuine Kurmanji and Zaza speakers talk to each other, they will have a really hard time to understand each other.

Yezidis speak most of the times Kurmanji at home, however this does not mean that they are Kurds, just as the Assyrians who speak Arabic at home aren't Arabs even though they've been partly arabized. Yezidi culture is more similar to Assyrian culture than Indo-Iranian Kurdish, trust me, most of their traditions are Mesopotamian.

“Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood.”

-Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Tambur

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2010, 09:32:40 AM »
Zazaki and Kurmanji are worlds away from one another, they're not the same language, the difference between them is like Kurmanji to Farsi, however Zazaki and Gorani are in the same family, while Kurmanji and Sorani are the same language, even though they don't understand one another completely.

As far as the Yizidies and Zazas go, if they don't claim to be Kurdish then they are not Kurdish, Kurds claim every group in the region to be Kurdish, so these Iranic minority speakers are easy targets, they even try to include Lurs in there.

Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2010, 08:11:19 PM »
it does not matter if they are Assyrian or not, as long as they dont admitt it , it wont make any difference for us
just like Chaldean and syriac

thank you

Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2010, 08:18:00 PM »
Zazi is as previously stated an independent language, but it can be included into the various Kurdish languages due to it's similarities with Kurmanji. If two genuine Kurmanji and Zaza speakers talk to each other, they will have a really hard time to understand each other.

Yezidis speak most of the times Kurmanji at home, however this does not mean that they are Kurds, just as the Assyrians who speak Arabic at home aren't Arabs even though they've been partly arabized. Yezidi culture is more similar to Assyrian culture than Indo-Iranian Kurdish, trust me, most of their traditions are Mesopotamian.




Reggardin Yazidis, you saying they are speaking kurdish because of kurdification and you comparing them with Assyrians..we know that many Assyrians speaks arabic cause they cant Assyrians but we have Assyrian who does speak Assyrian language, like what we are talking, we have language as ashub but Yazidi doesnt have any other language than Kurdish, they are speaking,writiting kurdish, even when they pray they pray in kurdish not any yazidi language...

Yazidi does not have any language than Kurdish
Yazidi are wearing Kurdish cloeth and arabic
Yaizid are writting and praying in Kurdish language
Yazidi are populated among kurds not outside so called Kurdistan, even in Mardin
Most of Yazidi considering themsleves as Kurdish but not as muslims
Musik and dance is all kurdish..

what do we need more to prove that they are Assyrians?

just tell me pls...

Offline the_dave

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2010, 05:56:35 AM »
I am waiting for the day when everything is so ****ed up and blown up in the middle east, when there are no state borders left because they bombed the hell out of them, and most of the Kurds, Arabs, Turks, iranians and all the other Muslims are gone or turned christens. I am hoping that they will want to start something new and with true freedom, and that they will identify themselves as ASSYRIANS as many of them used to be over 2000 years ago, they will want to have a country called Assyria which will have all of Mesopotamia in its borders....

OF course we Assyrians will come just after everything is blown up and messed up, and "help" them and "convince" them   

Again like many have said in this topic, YOU ARE ONLY ASSYRIAN IF YOU WANT TO BE ASSYRIAN, and nothing else makes a difference...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 05:58:01 AM by the_dave »
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Offline khayaatour

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2010, 08:25:22 PM »
I am waiting for the day when everything is so ****ed up and blown up in the middle east, when there are no state borders left because they bombed the hell out of them, and most of the Kurds, Arabs, Turks, iranians and all the other Muslims are gone or turned christens. I am hoping that they will want to start something new and with true freedom, and that they will identify themselves as ASSYRIANS as many of them used to be over 2000 years ago, they will want to have a country called Assyria which will have all of Mesopotamia in its borders....

OF course we Assyrians will come just after everything is blown up and messed up, and "help" them and "convince" them   

Again like many have said in this topic, YOU ARE ONLY ASSYRIAN IF YOU WANT TO BE ASSYRIAN, and nothing else makes a difference...


I understand how  you feel but you have to be realistics, I dont think muslims will convert to Christianity just like that and call themselves for Assyrians, no no..its only a dream we want to be truth but in reality its too long.....even if some muslims became christians that doesnt mean they will leave their cultur and their idenitity....like those Iranians, they are christians but they are more Iranians nationalists then a muslims iranian...

Offline Cascade

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Re: Maronites are Assyrians
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2017, 11:20:06 PM »
Maronites are the closest related ethnic groups to us. But they are NOT Assyrian. They are their own distinct ethnicity. They may have a bit of Assyrian in them, just the way we have Armenian or Hebrew, but they're still their own ethnicity, which descends from Phoenicians.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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