Author Topic: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?  (Read 3736 times)

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Offline Zawoyo

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Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« on: July 21, 2009, 08:24:39 AM »
Since I had Spanish lessons in the last year I was wondering about the similarity of the grammar between the Spanish language and our language.

The adjectives change in the same way like in Assyrian, e.g.:

- Spanish: Los hermanos de Graciela son altos y morenos.
(The letter s in the end of the adjectives shows the plural form)

- Same in Assyrian: a ahunone di Graciela rabe u kome ne.
(The letter e in the end of the adjectives shows the plural form)

An other example:

- You can say in Spanish: Tu habl-as espanol. & Habl-as espanol.

- You can say in Assyrian: hat maHk-at b surayt. & maHk-at b surayt.


Assyrian is much older than Spanish and has its origin from an other part of the world.
- So wherefrom is this similarity ?

As far as I know Spanish is a Latin swayed language. Latin was once the official language of the Roman Empire. And the Roman Empire was close to the field where our language was spoken.
So maybe there could be a connection.

If there is actually such a kind of connection than it means that Latin has Assyrian roots
and this means all the Latin influenced languages have Assyrian roots.

What is your opinion to this topic ?

shlome lebonoye
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 08:34:20 AM by John_86 »


The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Carlo

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 10:07:37 AM »
Hey John,

What you're describing is language "inflection," and it happens in virtually every Indo-European language as well as the Semitic languages. Some linguists have thought to group these two together because of that similarity, but most are unconvinced.

Offline Ashuriena

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 06:34:43 AM »
I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat
I find out who sprayed it, and I'm puttin' you under the pavement. No Buddhist priest, Catholic or Baptist pastor can save him. I'm far from religious, but I got beliefs. So, I put canary yellow diamonds on my Jesus piece. - Game

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 06:34:43 AM »

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 07:29:15 AM »
This remembers me in that:
  :shades:
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Alen Sin

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 06:55:48 AM »
I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat


You want English/Ashurian words?

Ashurian-Eyna  English-Eye

Ashurian-Sawer/Sawarta  English-Swear

Ashurian-Boot/Bout  English-About

Ashurian-Atyanna  English-Attendant

Ashurian-Grud/Grada  English-Grate/Grating, as in "Cheese Grater"

Ashurian-Zruch  English-Scratch

Ashurian-Iwa  English-It Was

Ashurian-B  English-By  (B mut urkha?/ By which way)

Ashurian-Aratha/Arrata  English-Earth

Ashurian-Luya  English-Light

Ashurian-Satana  English-Satan

Ashurian-Qatu  English-Cat

There are more, but that's all I can think of for now.
Alen Barsin

Offline Malik Danno

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 12:42:16 PM »
you guys are trying way too hard  :lol:

Offline Alen Sin

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2009, 01:26:00 PM »
you guys are trying way too hard  :lol:

And you're not trying hard enough :lol:
Alen Barsin

Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2016, 08:29:24 AM »
I always find the English words that are similar to Assyrian interesting.

For example:

English | Assyrian

Albeit  = Halbat
Kismet = Qismat
Ashoor, please forgive me for bumping this thread, but I had to answer this because it's so hilariously misleading (Lol). And it doesn't have to be a reply for Ashureina, but for anyone who stumbles in here and takes what she said for granted.

"Halbat" is a borrowed Farsi word that means "of course". "Albeit" means "although" or "despite being". The two have no relations. It's just a random chance that they somehow soundalike. I mean, we say "spy" for good, and English speakers use that word for peeping. :mrgreen: Many non-related languages have this occurrence. Incidentally, the Assyrian word "(kh)zee" sounds like "see", and they even both mean the same thing (to look or observe), but yet they have no genetic ties.

"Qismet" is a Turkish word from Arabic. English has borrowed it too as kismet, although it is rarely used; Many stick with "fate" or "destiny". Even effendi, a Turkish word, is used in English, but who the heck uses it.  :giggle:

What people here have forgotten is that the word "earth", which has its similar variations in most of the Indo-European languages (i.e. aard, erd,) is probably rooted from the Sumerian city name Ur, which signifies ''town, place, area, territory''. In Assyrian, earth is "ar'a" or just "ara". In Arabic it sounds closer to the English word, "arth" (Gulf Arabic uses "th", others use "d"). Now this is probably a true root or connection to our language.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 11:22:33 PM »
As Carlo described, this is a very common phenomenon in languages throughout Europe and MENA. There are plenty more similarities, some of these are coincidental but others are due to borrowing from a mutual source or cognates etc. You will find that there are many connections between Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages in general.

You will find that words for land or earth or ground, seem to be related across most Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages. This is also true of personal pronouns. Take the ancient Aramaic pronouns Huwa (he) and Haya (she). Or Akkadian Shu (he) and Shee (she).

Also, the "h" in "hat" (you, tu, du thou) has bee added so it was originally "at" (as it is still pronounced in the East). But there were (and still are in many cases) variants such as "atta", "atti", "attunu", "attina" which make it sound a lot closer to European languages.

Some of these could be coincidental, others may not be. Below are examples of similar sounding words.

Assyrian - English/other

tabliy - table (both are probably derived from Latin)
khzee - see
taniy - tell
sswut/ ssawit - speak/converse
leyta - light
luya - light
liy/eliy - (to) light
d/t - de        "of" in Assyrian and Latin respectively.
plukh - (to) plough                     (many people use "plukh" to mean "to work" but it's main meaning according to our dictionary is "to plough")
akkara (farmer - this word is of Akkadian origin) - ager (Latin for "field, farm etc"; as in "agriculture")   -it appears the Latin word is of Proto-Indo-European origin so this might be a coincidence.
qut (touch) - tag (Proto-Indo-European: "touch")                -the reversal and of syllables or consonants is common.
taq(tiq) (knock) - tag (Proto Indo-European: "touch")                 In Semitic languages, the doubling up of biconsonantal roots is also common ie taqtiq, raprip, barbir, nazniz etc
gurta - great       -gurta is feminine
shud - should     -shud means "may" as in "may he win".
b - by
bia - via       - bia means "along".
kil/kul - all
trusa/trusta - true, truth    -trusa comes from an ancient root "T-R-S" and is related to words such as "trus" (to be correct) and "taris" (to mend, repair, fix). Trusta is merely the feminine of trusa
He, ye, eyn - yes, aye      -"he" and "eyn"" are simply mean "yes" and "ye" is used to deny a negative statement.
beyn, beynath - between
tarra - thiyra (Greek for "door") - "tarra" seems to come from a very old Aramaic root that means "to open" ie the root "T-R-E". The Greek word seems to have come from the PIE *dʰwer therefore, I suspect it's coincidental.
kosa - kosa (Slavic for "hair") -Seem to be Slavic loanword but I have no idea how it ended up as a common word in our language when we already have several words for "hair".
shvul/shavil - show  -shvul means to "direct"
menaaya - meaning


I believe "men" in Indo-European languages means "mind". However, the below seem to be purely coincidental and have arbitrarily evolved over time to sound similar. The below (and some of the above) should be a sign that just because you can make a connection, doesn't mean you should underestimate the vastness of languages and the fact that they are bound to be filled with similar sounding and totally unrelated words.

taxmen - think
hemen - believe
menshee - forget
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 05:40:33 PM by Sharukinu »
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 12:05:03 AM »
I know of English words of Assyrian origin. Most of the ones I know about have entered via Arabic. I believe there are also several loanwords that have been borrowed from Assyrian into Greek (or pre-Greek).

Carob --from Syriac ḫarūbu | ḥarūb. Passed on from medieval Syriac to Arabic and eventually worked its way to English.
marcasite  --from Syriac marq(a)šita (also maqašitha) (iron sulfide). via Arabic
amalgam (of metal) --most likey from Syriac malagma. this was passed on from Arabic to English and it might have been of Assyrian origin as the oldest reference to it seems to be in an Assyrian-Arabic dictionary written by an Assyrian (Bar Bahlul) in the 10 century.
zircon, zirconium --from Syriac yaqūndā (a type of gemstone)
tanbur, tanbura, tambur, tambura, tambouras, tamburica, tembûr --possibly from Aramaic/Syriac ṭnbwr. The oldest references to this word are from Assyrian (Syriac), Jewish Babylonian Aramaic and Arabic -occurring at about the same time.
The Greek words "aglis" or "gelgis" (Garlic) --from the Akkadian  giddil / gidlu "string (of onions or garlic)" -compare that to our modern word "gida" meaning "string".

Here are some others interesting ones.

Capital = caput (Latin) -the meaning was ultimately influenced by the definition of Akkadian "qaqqadu"
This Latin word had the meanings "head" and "capital" (city) -this double meaning came from the Greeks who received it from the Phonecians who received it from us. The ultimate root of this double meaning comes from the Akkadian "qaqqadu" meaning "head" or "capital" (city)

Toga
possibly from Sumerian "tug" or a PIE root
Alcohol, kohl
From Arabic al-kohl / kohl from Akkadian guhlu (with the same meaning) from Sumerian  igi-hulu ("evil-eye")
Dragoman
From Arabic tarjumān, from Aramaic turgemānā, in turn from Akkadian targumanu
Sumac
From Arabic "summāq" from Syriac "summāqa" -compare with the more popular Neo-Syriac "smuqa"
Guitar
The origin of this word is subject to great debate. Nonetheless, the guitar originates from ancient Mesopotamia and we also find references to the Assyrian (Syriac) word for guitar ("qiytaara") appearing in the 10 century, pointing out that (from the perspective of the Arabs) this was something "they" (Assyrians) called it which was translated to Arabic firstly as "العود" (al-ʿaūd = "the oud") and secondly as "الطنبور" (al-tanbūr = "the tanbur") -funnily enough, al-tanbur might be of Syriac/Aramaic origins (see above). Nonetheless it seems there is also an ancient Greek word "kithaara" which may also be the origin of the word "guitar". Unfortunately, the roots of the Assyrian word "qiytaara" and Greek word "kithara" can't seem to be traced back any further (as far as I can tell). This suggests that the term "guitar" has it's roots either with Greeks or Assyrians".
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 03:02:57 AM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

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Offline Etain

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 10:51:44 AM »
That's really interesting. I assumed most words with an assyrian origin related to christianity

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 06:10:52 PM »
That's really interesting. I assumed most words with an assyrian origin related to christianity

I have a brief list I wanted to post but it won't let me post more than a few lines? I'm not to sure why so I've attached it as a PDF file.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 06:11:30 PM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

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Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 01:37:24 AM »
What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?

And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 02:29:05 AM »
What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?

And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?

Qetah is spelled using 'Ayn... Latin doesn't have that sound.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2016, 04:54:56 AM »
Qetah is spelled using 'Ayn... Latin doesn't have that sound.
Not "qeta" (summer), dude.

Do you even know the Assyrian word for "cut"?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2016, 02:44:01 PM »
Not "qeta" (summer), dude.

Do you even know the Assyrian word for "cut"?


http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25632&language=id

are you like 5?

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2016, 04:19:33 PM »
What about Qat-qit or Qtee for "cut"?


Qttee = sever (not cut)
Qattqitt = chop up

Yes, that seems to be a case were they took the two strong consonants in Qttee (Qop + Ttet) and doubled it up to make Qattqitt -ignoring the "Eh/Eyn" in the root of Qttee since it's virtually diapered in pronunciation for a very long time it seems.


And I think "menaye" (meaning) is an English loanword and not an actual Syriac word?


I can only find that claim on Wikipedia, and it claims it's from Middle English without an explanation. That etymology doesn't seem to make sense and it really seems far more likely that the word comes from the root E-N-A ('eh, Nun, Alep). See http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=17828&language=id
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Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 12:21:31 AM »
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25632&language=id

are you like 5?

Spell it properly then. "Qeta" sounds like the Assyrian word for summer. "Qtey'a" is cut. How could you confuse the two distinct sounds?

Qttee = sever (not cut)
Qattqitt = chop up

Yes, that seems to be a case were they took the two strong consonants in Qttee (Qop + Ttet) and doubled it up to make Qattqitt -ignoring the "Eh/Eyn" in the root of Qttee since it's virtually diapered in pronunciation for a very long time it seems.

"Cut" is pretty much the generic term for sever (or at least a synonym). When you "chop up" something you're technically cutting. Do you think "qatqit" and "cut" are related?

Quote
I can only find that claim on Wikipedia, and it claims it's from Middle English without an explanation. That etymology doesn't seem to make sense and it really seems far more likely that the word comes from the root E-N-A ('eh, Nun, Alep). See http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=17828&language=id

It could be a coincidence that our "menaye" sounds like "meaning". I doubt that we'd be borrowing such a basic, common word.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 02:08:09 AM »
"Cut" is pretty much the generic term for sever (or at least a synonym). When you "chop up" something you're technically cutting. Do you think "qatqit" and "cut" are related?

It's important to distinguish it from "cut" though. If i said "qttee your hand", it means "sever your hand" [from your arm]". The word qattqitt makes more sense this way since "chopping up" actually means "to cut into pieces" which is the same as saying, "to sever several (smaller) parts out of a (larger) thing"

 The word I use for "cut" is "prum" -related to the word "parmee" (understand).

Cut might be related to "qut" (touch) or qttee (sever) -that seem highly likely in my opinion.


It could be a coincidence that our "menaye" sounds like "meaning". I doubt that we'd be borrowing such a basic, common word.

Probably, I don't think it's from English but we do borrow many basic words too which is why we often have far too many words for basic things.

“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

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Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 04:55:00 AM »
It's important to distinguish it from "cut" though. If i said "qttee your hand", it means "sever your hand" [from your arm]". The word qattqitt makes more sense this way since "chopping up" actually means "to cut into pieces" which is the same as saying, "to sever several (smaller) parts out of a (larger) thing"

 The word I use for "cut" is "prum" -related to the word "parmee" (understand).

Cut might be related to "qut" (touch) or qttee (sever) -that seem highly likely in my opinion.


Probably, I don't think it's from English but we do borrow many basic words too which is why we often have far too many words for basic things.

I can definitely some see relation between "qtee" and "cut", but I don't know. Though they're not as dramatic as "ghzee" and "see" - These two have intrigued me the most and they have been the most obvious (at least to me).

By "basic words" I meant words that are not name of objects or at least European inventions in the past century or so (such as car, film, radio, fridge, TV, etc - which can easily be borrowed). We only tend to have our own words for objects at least older than a millennia (such as house, book and writing) and "abstract" material (love, sadness, anger, stubbornness, death, etc). So why would "meaning" (an abstract term) be borrowed, let alone from English? :/

Btw, I looked up "meaning" and the Syriac dictionary only came up with these three and I didn't see "manaye":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4265&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8747&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=33410&language=id

P.S. What about "lip" and "sipateh"? I guess now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Lol.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 04:46:20 PM »
Btw, I looked up "meaning" and the Syriac dictionary only came up with these three and I didn't see "manaye":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4265&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8747&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=33410&language=id


I'm sure if you typed the word "meaning" into the search bar you will be inundated with results. I don't know what search criteria you entered to only get those three results. Anyway, "meaning" has a few different meanings in English.  Those that you posted refer to one sense of the word "meaning"; here are some others that may relate to various senses of the word "meaning":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25758&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=14223&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=32357&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10813&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9151&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4634&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9484&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10400&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=19280&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4232&language=id



P.S. What about "lip" and "sipateh"? I guess now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Lol.


They are too different.
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Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2016, 02:49:16 AM »
I'm sure if you typed the word "meaning" into the search bar you will be inundated with results. I don't know what search criteria you entered to only get those three results. Anyway, "meaning" has a few different meanings in English.  Those that you posted refer to one sense of the word "meaning"; here are some others that may relate to various senses of the word "meaning":

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=25758&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=14223&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=32357&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10813&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9151&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4634&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=9484&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=10400&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=19280&language=id
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4232&language=id

I did type "meaning" in the search bar and I did get so many results. I just didn't see a point of listing them all.

So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/

Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2016, 01:24:37 AM »
So, there is no "menaye" in those definition links. I'm guessing now it is a borrowed word after all. :/


Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=macnAyA%27&language=fullsyriac
Manaya: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=34348&language=id
Mana: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=8221&language=id


Manaya seems to be a coincidental evolution of a borrowed term ma'na. Therefore it is best avoided in favour of other words such as those above. The dictionary redirects you to the following two as examples of authentic alternatives:

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=juwdAcA%27&language=fullsyriac
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=sukAlA%27&language=fullsyriac


Oh yeah, English "about" and and Assyrian "boot" are also good contenders. But then again, it can be a coincidence.



After a google search on the etymology of "about": Old English onbūtan, from on ‘in, on’ + būtan ‘outside of.
After doing the same for "but": Old English be-ūtan, būtan, būta ‘outside, without, except’

So we are really comparing the Assyrian (Neo-Aramaic) but (about) with the Old English be-ūtan, būtan and būta (outside of, outside, without, except)

Being "about" or "around" something does seem closely related to being "outside" of something. -Being about or around something simply means being "adjacent" + being "outside" [of something]. Considering how far back we have to go, there is a good chance this is another coincidence (as always) but maybe there is a connection.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 01:26:03 AM by Sharukinu »
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Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2016, 05:26:47 AM »
We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them. Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?

And thanks for the google research on the etymology of "about". :)
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2016, 07:30:25 AM »
We seem to have a large vocabulary (nice to see so many words for "meaning" in Syriac). It's amazing, but rather tragic, since so many of us forgot these words or at least just don't have the habit of using them.


Yes. We should standardise our modern words and enforce their usage in both the East and West dialects of modern Assyrian (Suret/Sureth) to help them merge as much as possible. I am currently creating a small dictionary by extracting words from existing dictionaries such as the one I gave examples from. My goal is to take a simplified list of authentic (native) words and provide a translation in English so that you don't have to go digging to find the meaning of a word among such large lists of similar words, and so that you don't have to contemplate whether or not the word is authentic. I've also began listing etymologies alongside some words.

Let me clarify what I mean by "authentic". Words from Aramaic, Akkadian, Sumerian, Hurrian, Amoritic and such languages that are our deepest roots, are "authentic" and most preferred.

After the authentic words we have the somewhat authentic words: words from the languages of closely related/interactive ancient cultures ie Uratian, Phoenician, Hittite, Elamite etc -these are somewhat preferred.

The only inauthentic words that I might consider maintaining are those borrowed from languages of great pre-Islamic cultures, especially those which are relevant to our history, such as Latin, Persian and Greek -these are barely preferred. However, an idealist part of me wants to purge these words too.



Ma'na is an Arabic/Turkish word, right? What does it mean, "meaning" or something else?


I don't know what it means in Arabic or Turkish. I believe it is ultimately from Arabic but it might have been borrowed through Turkish - I'm guessing it means "meaning" in Arabic also. However, we do have an authentic Aramaic root that seems to be somewhat related:  E-N-A (Eh, Nun, Aleph,)

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=cn%27&language=fullsyriac


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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2016, 06:57:24 AM »
I don't know what it means in Arabic or Turkish. I believe it is ultimately from Arabic but it might have been borrowed through Turkish - I'm guessing it means "meaning" in Arabic also. However, we do have an authentic Aramaic root that seems to be somewhat related:  E-N-A (Eh, Nun, Aleph,)

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=cn%27&language=fullsyriac

Yeah, I figured that "man'a" is in Arabic and it means "meaning" too. Perhaps it's a Semitic cognate word. But I don't know.
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2017, 02:45:25 AM »
What about "mortal" and "mota"?

Mortal is Latin for "death" and it sounds like "mota". Are these two related?
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 04:18:30 PM »
What about "mortal" and "mota"?

Mortal is Latin for "death" and it sounds like "mota". Are these two related?

missing 'r'...

the root for death in Semitic languages is M-W-T (meem waw taw)

the latin "mortalis" comes from latin "mors" (death)

"mors" originates from (reconstructed) indo euro root "mer"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/mer-

example of modern languages that use the root

Kurdish - Mirin
Persian - Mordan

Offline Cascade

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2017, 04:48:54 AM »
Hey John,

What you're describing is language "inflection," and it happens in virtually every Indo-European language as well as the Semitic languages. Some linguists have thought to group these two together because of that similarity, but most are unconvinced.
And it really isn't convincing. ;)

Look I'm also not a linguist here and I lack knowledge in languages, but come on, the OP surely would know that many languages from numerous differing families have some sort of inflection. He can't be this naïve. Lol. But his thread (which is interesting nonetheless) is from 8 years ago. Hopefully he's learnt a bit since then.
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2017, 04:08:03 AM »
Kill: Qtull/Qatala (Arabic; Katill/Kutil/Al Qatil)

Any relations?
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2017, 04:17:37 PM »
Kill: Qtull/Qatala (Arabic; Katill/Kutil/Al Qatil)

Any relations?

yes, the same Semitic root.. Arabic doesn't say "katil", also you're forgetting the Qur'ans favorite word: "qatal".

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2017, 09:33:48 PM »
yes, the same Semitic root.. Arabic doesn't say "katil", also you're forgetting the Qur'ans favorite word: "qatal".
Looool...

I meant, any relations to the English word "kill", as the sound similar to it.

I know the Semitic roots of it are the same.
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 04:31:46 AM »
Looool...

I meant, any relations to the English word "kill", as the sound similar to it.

I know the Semitic roots of it are the same.

OOHHH, Sorry, I misunderstood.

kill, in Englosh, is derived from Middle English killen, kyllen, cüllen (“to strike, beat, cut”)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kill

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2017, 01:12:45 AM »
I should've added to my post that the Assyrian M-N-E root is about counting and reckoning which is why it's not unrealistic for menāya to be from that root since we often change Ehs into Yuds.

Although the English word for kill derives from words that sound more different to the Semitic root Q-TT-L, the key is to look for the consonants and account for as many changes as possible. Does killen/kyllen/cüllen posses any affixes? If the "en" is a suffix, then you're left with K-L. Qop and Kap interchange often. So it's easy to connect the Qop and Lammad in Q-TT-L to the Kap and Lammad sounds in the English equivalents.

If you look at Proto Indo-European words, there seems to be much commonality with Proto-Semitic roots. At the very least, it suggests a close proximity between the speakers of the languages -one of the many reasons why upper Mesopotamia is most likely the urheimat (birthplace) of Proto Semitic.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 01:14:35 AM by Sharukinu »
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2017, 04:49:49 AM »
If you look at Proto Indo-European words, there seems to be much commonality with Proto-Semitic roots. At the very least, it suggests a close proximity between the speakers of the languages -one of the many reasons why upper Mesopotamia is most likely the urheimat (birthplace) of Proto Semitic.
Well, they have proposed the Nostratic language family, which includes Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic, Japonic, Korean and Uralic languages having the same common ancestor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languages

There's also Indo-Semitic, which hypothesizes that Semitic and Indo-European languages have the same ancestor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2017, 03:55:40 AM »
I realized the English word "woe" is related to the Assyrian word "wai" (as in the song, Wai Wai Minakh by Sargon Gabriel, meaning "woe from you"). Astonishingly, the proto-Indo European word is "wai", which is quite identical to the modern Assyrian word. Both "wai" and "akh" (which is also used in Arabic - "akh minak") are in the Syriac dictionary. And it appears that "wai" is a classical Syriac word. So maybe it has genetic ties to the proto-Indo European word *wai?

Akh: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=30429&language=id
Wye: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=16457&language=id

The Indo-European cognate include; Latin vae, Lithuanian vaĩ, Russian увы́ (uvý), Middle Irish fáe, Dutch wee, German weh, Danish ve, French ouais, Ancient Greek οὐαί (ouaí), Armenian վայ (vay) and Persian وای (vây).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 04:17:46 AM by Neon »
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 01:01:00 PM »
I realized the English word "woe" is related to the Assyrian word "wai" (as in the song, Wai Wai Minakh by Sargon Gabriel, meaning "woe from you"). Astonishingly, the proto-Indo European word is "wai", which is quite identical to the modern Assyrian word. Both "wai" and "akh" (which is also used in Arabic - "akh minak") are in the Syriac dictionary. And it appears that "wai" is a classical Syriac word. So maybe it has genetic ties to the proto-Indo European word *wai?

Akh: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=30429&language=id
Wye: http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=16457&language=id

The Indo-European cognate include; Latin vae, Lithuanian vaĩ, Russian увы́ (uvý), Middle Irish fáe, Dutch wee, German weh, Danish ve, French ouais, Ancient Greek οὐαί (ouaí), Armenian վայ (vay) and Persian وای (vây).


I've also noticed these similarities. It's very interesting since they are words that describe such basic emotions.
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2017, 10:00:49 PM »
What I gathered from this really instructive thread is that these words are likely to have genetic connections to proto Indo-European:

Ayna: Eye
Ara: Earth (Proto-Indo-European *h₁er- compare Ancient Greek *ἔρα *éra)
Wai: Woe
Tara: Door (Proto-Indo-European *dʰwer- “doorway, door, gate”, compare German Tür)


These words I'm not sure of, but should be put in perspective:

Laya: Light (Proto-Indo-European root *lewk- “light”)
Manay: Meaning
Sawer: Swear (from PIE *swer- “to speak, talk” - Perhaps related to Semitic root s-w-t/sawt; voice?)
Qat-qit: Cut (from Proto-Germanic *kutjaną, *kuttaną; “to cut”)
Khzee: See (from Proto-Indo-European *sekʷ- “to see, notice”


"Zruch" ("scratch") and "boot" ("about") are probably coincidental. Also, "cat" (qatoo) is said to be derived from the ancient Egyptian word "čaute".

P.S. Would you say that the Afro-Asiatic languages gave rise to Indo-European? Could AA be an ancestor to IE?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 01:19:50 AM by Neon »
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2017, 09:33:44 AM »
P.S. Would you say that the Afro-Asiatic languages gave rise to Indo-European? Could AA be an ancestor to IE?

I think they most likely have a common origin. Sister languages, or cousins.
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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2017, 08:29:56 PM »
Interesting theory. It's possible there's a connection but the afro-asiatic languages originated far away from where indo-european did. I can't think of a migration route that would make sense. Indo-European likely originated in modern day Ukraine.

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Re: Roots of Latin & Latin influenced languages = Assyrian ?
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2017, 11:09:21 PM »
Interesting theory. It's possible there's a connection but the afro-asiatic languages originated far away from where indo-european did. I can't think of a migration route that would make sense. Indo-European likely originated in modern day Ukraine.
Afro-Asiatic languages originated in eastern Africa. They then spread to north Africa and out to western Asia. Maybe AA eventually reached the Caucasus and eastern Europe, and then perhaps proto Indo-European started to diverge from it?

Indo European, Turkic and Uralic languages didn't come out of thin air. They all probably some how diverged from Afro-Asiatic, or at least share a "common ancestor" with AA.
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