Author Topic: Crusade against the Assyrian name  (Read 89562 times)

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Offline Aturaya

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2009, 11:32:29 PM »
John, thank you for remember our Muslim brothers and sisters, the "Mhalmoye".
Can any one write their history for wikipedia, with proofs etc..?

shlome

They no longer consider themselves Assyrians?

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2009, 12:09:52 AM »
They no longer consider themselves Assyrians?

What do you think? lol

There are a few that admit to their Syriac Orthodox ancestory though.

Offline Aturaya

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2009, 08:39:23 AM »
What do you think? lol

There are a few that admit to their Syriac Orthodox ancestory though.

If so why is he calling them our "brothers" there just traitors, rather than dieing they converted.

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2009, 08:39:23 AM »

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2009, 08:51:40 AM »
If so why is he calling them our "brothers" there just traitors, rather than dieing they converted.

Because some of them do admit to their ancestory.

They also live close to the Tur Abdin region so the Assyrians from there must have connections..

Offline Aturaya

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2009, 09:00:56 AM »
Because some of them do admit to their ancestory.

They also live close to the Tur Abdin region so the Assyrians from there must have connections..

now to the other question, why would somebody thats assyrian be proud of them and call them brothers?

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2009, 09:12:44 AM »
Because some of them do admit to their ancestory.

They also live close to the Tur Abdin region so the Assyrians from there must have connections..

Just like a lot of Assyrians from Iraq call Arabs "Iraqi brothers".
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 09:13:52 AM by davidb »

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2009, 01:10:16 PM »
They no longer consider themselves Assyrians?

There are some of them who accept their Assyrian identity. E.g. in Midyat, Tur Abdin is a new House Of Assyrian Culture which is from the mhalmoye/Assyrian muslims. Ask them about their nationality they say Ashuri.
In the last week I met one of them in youtube. He calls himself Mhallamia and he told me that he know that he is an Assyrian.

And they don´t live just in Tur Abdin. A lot of them live in Lebanon too.
There are so many of them, especially in Berlin. We don´t know how many of them live in the diaspora.
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline xxSanhoxx

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2009, 01:26:21 PM »
@Aturaya, Assyrianism doenst included religion. Thats the important think: Assyrian identity is not a religion!

To the Mhalmoye-Assyrian brothers, which truely get forced to another religion, we have to asked from where they get forced?

I know, the failure was in our church leaders at that time, and not by muslims. They had Sawmo/Sawma, but nothing to eat, only they animals and milk, because it was a bad time. They asked the church leaders, that they can break the Sawmo because of that, but they didnt accept! So, a lot of them became Mhalmoye, because they get forced of the church to die in Sawmo is better than to eat wrong in Sawmo. And do you know what? If i had the some problem at this time, i would get with them muslim, to show the chuch, it dont work like that!! Ok, now a lot of them dont identify themselves anymore as assyrian, like a lot of christian arabs (to them we hadnt any relation too ?), but it exist a couple of them which do! And the Mhalmoye Assyrian are in our homeland more than 1 Million population. Think about, if everybody identify themselve assyrian, what it does mean for our assyrian aims? :) Assyrianism is over any confession/religion, because religion doenst have any relation to the Nation! Can anybody deny assyrians because of their religion?

The middle east population is more than 70% assyrian, by ethnicy, and i think every assyrian which come back to their truely identity, is welcome!

shlome
"..To be an Assyrian is to feel: The past is my heritage I shall forget it not; the present, my responsibility; the future, my challenge." - Dr. David Barsum Perley

Offline Aturaya

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2009, 01:43:18 PM »
@Aturaya, Assyrianism doenst included religion. Thats the important think: Assyrian identity is not a religion!

To the Mhalmoye-Assyrian brothers, which truely get forced to another religion, we have to asked from where they get forced?

I know, the failure was in our church leaders at that time, and not by muslims. They had Sawmo/Sawma, but nothing to eat, only they animals and milk, because it was a bad time. They asked the church leaders, that they can break the Sawmo because of that, but they didnt accept! So, a lot of them became Mhalmoye, because they get forced of the church to die in Sawmo is better than to eat wrong in Sawmo. And do you know what? If i had the some problem at this time, i would get with them muslim, to show the chuch, it dont work like that!! Ok, now a lot of them dont identify themselves anymore as assyrian, like a lot of christian arabs (to them we hadnt any relation too ?), but it exist a couple of them which do! And the Mhalmoye Assyrian are in our homeland more than 1 Million population. Think about, if everybody identify themselve assyrian, what it does mean for our assyrian aims? :) Assyrianism is over any confession/religion, because religion doenst have any relation to the Nation! Can anybody deny assyrians because of their religion?

The middle east population is more than 70% assyrian, by ethnicy, and i think every assyrian which come back to their truely identity, is welcome!

shlome

I know what you are trying to say, Assyrians are assyrians no matter what religion but this group doesn't identify themselves as assyrians (thank god) i respect any Assyrian catholic,orthodox,atheist but when it comes to Muslim, id rather those Assyrians not be mentioned, or forgotten. Its true it would help our situation since it increases our numbers but i still wouldn't like it.

Offline jonadona

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2009, 02:06:31 PM »
I know what you are trying to say, Assyrians are assyrians no matter what religion but this group doesn't identify themselves as assyrians (thank god) i respect any Assyrian catholic,orthodox,atheist but when it comes to Muslim, id rather those Assyrians not be mentioned, or forgotten. Its true it would help our situation since it increases our numbers but i still wouldn't like it.

Muslims are as much victims to their religion as others are. 
turbulence is a fluid regime characterized by chaotic, stochastic property changes.

Offline xxSanhoxx

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2009, 03:39:10 PM »
an assyrian build the islam, so what, accept it as yours  :loool:
"..To be an Assyrian is to feel: The past is my heritage I shall forget it not; the present, my responsibility; the future, my challenge." - Dr. David Barsum Perley

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2009, 04:37:57 PM »
Very nice words, Sanharib!
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline xxSanhoxx

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2009, 06:19:41 PM »
i dont find any sources, but im still searching..


but at least, not 1 million identify themselves as assyrians, its only the minorty which do..

only this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mhallami
but its not much and  dont show at all that they are assyrian... only that they were syriac orthodox.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 06:23:21 PM by xxSanhoxx »
"..To be an Assyrian is to feel: The past is my heritage I shall forget it not; the present, my responsibility; the future, my challenge." - Dr. David Barsum Perley

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2009, 07:36:57 PM »
I don't know if any of you have watched the Aramean documentary on youtube, there's about 14 parts to it and 1 of the videos talks about the Mhallamoye, i can't remember which part it was but that will give you a bit of information on them.

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »
Yes, i think it's the hidden pearl.



They mainly talk about the ancient Arameans but then end up making a link between Arameans and the Syriac Orthodox.

Offline Forever Assyrian

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2009, 10:41:43 AM »
i dont find any sources, but im still searching..


but at least, not 1 million identify themselves as assyrians, its only the minorty which do..

only this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mhallami
but its not much and  dont show at all that they are assyrian... only that they were syriac orthodox.



There was an article called "Muslim Assyrians", but it was merged with "Mhallami" beacause it was talking about the same people. Last version before it was merged: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Muslim_Assyrians&oldid=251509567
Imith dithe, o qadishto

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2009, 08:53:59 AM »
How long have we been calling ourselves Suryaye/Suryoye? If it's a long time then this "Aramean" thing has a case i think..

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2009, 06:09:43 PM »
No sorry i meant Suryaya, not Suraya. Unless these words have been used interchangeably since the 7th century BC?

Offline Danny12344

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2009, 02:14:34 AM »
90% say suroyo, 30-40 percent is assyrian not oromoyo

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2009, 03:33:08 AM »
90% say suroyo, 30-40 percent is assyrian not oromoyo

Suroyo rather then Suryoyo?

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #90 on: February 01, 2009, 08:02:02 AM »
Suroyo rather then Suryoyo?


They say Suroyo and Suryoyo. The most say Suryoyo but if you say to them Suroyo or ask them whether tey are Suroyo they say yes without problems.

If somebody is interested in the sources of our Aramean-thinking people here is a website which has also a big influence to them: http://www.urhoy.info/2.html
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline chaldean

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2009, 01:46:38 PM »
Quote
I want to know how long we've been calling ourselves Syrians

Beginning in 100 BC, but not predominatly until 200 AD. Its worth noting thou even after 200 AD, Assuraya/Assurayet was used along with Suraya/Suroyo throughout time, but of course gave in to Suraya/Soroyo eventually.
I Love Assyria

Offline Rumtaya

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2009, 02:59:58 PM »
I was watching today in the morning "Bet Nahren", Sargon Dadesho was talking about this "Aramean" thing, he had a book published in arabic by Odisho Malko or so. This Odisho Malko was saying that the word Aram, was used by Jews to describe the others who were non-Jews i.e. in their eyes Pagans.

'He named all the areas "Aram Nahrain", "Paddan-Aram", Aram-Harran" etc, it was interesting listining to what Sargon Dadesho was reading out form the book.

So does anyone know or heard about this Odisho Malko (I think that was the name, not very sure)?

btw. I still don´t understand how people call our language "aramic", I never call my language lishana aramaya nor did I hear anyone saying that (expect for some individuals in the church). However saying "surait", shows the similiartie to the akkadian way for calling the language "assurayit".


Offline xxSanhoxx

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2009, 03:03:21 PM »
maybe it came from "lishana Ramaya", like the "high language"? maybe our people like to play with the alap  :blush2: so some think its lishana aramaya and this idea the church-people like, because jesus spoke aramaic  :mrgreen:
"..To be an Assyrian is to feel: The past is my heritage I shall forget it not; the present, my responsibility; the future, my challenge." - Dr. David Barsum Perley

Offline tihe-othur

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2009, 03:55:18 PM »
if we get an autonomy in iraq. these mhalmoye will come there and our part of the country will only grow bigger.

they did not convert because of force. it was a stupid assyrian orthodox patriarch mistake. that asshole forced them to fast in times there was no bread, but enough meat. the people would certainly die, so they became muslims.

----------
i think we need an autonomy, and then if the churches begin to play political games, they must be destroyed. invite evangelical and other churches to spliut ours into 50 denominations, so they are all powerless to controle the majority. our priests are the biggest assholes in the whole world and they should feel this very hard. the church preserved our language, but is destroying us at this time.

Offline Zawoyo

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2009, 11:56:18 AM »
if we get an autonomy in iraq. these mhalmoye will come there and our part of the country will only grow bigger.

they did not convert because of force. it was a stupid assyrian orthodox patriarch mistake. that asshole forced them to fast in times there was no bread, but enough meat. the people would certainly die, so they became muslims.

Absolutely right. But it wasn´t just beacuse this churchman. They were also forced to convert because of violence against Christians. So both aspects played a role.

i think we need an autonomy, and then if the churches begin to play political games, they must be destroyed. invite evangelical and other churches to spliut ours into 50 denominations, so they are all powerless to controle the majority. our priests are the biggest assholes in the whole world and they should feel this very hard. the church preserved our language, but is destroying us at this time.

Yes, in Christianity there are about 38000 different Christian denomination. If we let our churchmans speak we will be 38000 different nations.
So:

!!!NO to the churchmans!!!

!!!NO to the churchmans!!!

!!!NO to the churchmans!!!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 11:56:59 AM by John_86 »
The Rights of Assyrians -UN Declaration
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDtB12aA8I

The existence of the Assyrian Nation & Nationality is a fact
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=36862.0

̈I´m not interested in helping our ppl because I´m nationalistic, I´m interested because our ppl NEED help!

Offline Kandil

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #96 on: March 16, 2009, 02:56:40 PM »

The middle east population is more than 70% assyrian, by ethnicy, and i think every assyrian which come back to their truely identity, is welcome!

shlome

I think you should slow down a bit :) .


Offline jonadona

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #97 on: March 18, 2009, 05:28:19 AM »
I think you should slow down a bit :) .



I think you should crawl back in a cave in a little bit :)
turbulence is a fluid regime characterized by chaotic, stochastic property changes.

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #98 on: April 03, 2009, 08:46:13 PM »
guys you have to get this book it explains everything in a simple way.

remnants of heroes, the assyrian experience.

by Sargon Donabed.

its about Assyrians from Turkey and how the Syriac orthodox church started this aramean propaganda.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 10:25:55 AM by Assyrianism »
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Offline GodismyJudge

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #99 on: April 04, 2009, 12:42:53 PM »
guy you have to get this book it explains everything in a simple way.

remnants of heroes, the assyrian experience.

by Sargon Donabed.

its about Assyrians from Turkey and how the Syriac orthodox church started this aramean propaganda.


Ooh I have it but haven't started reading it. I lend it from my brother. Thanks for reminding :D.
I am an Assyrian today, tomorrow, forever, and I am proud of it.

Offline Danny12344

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2009, 07:18:12 PM »
guy you have to get this book it explains everything in a simple way.

remnants of heroes, the assyrian experience.

by Sargon Donabed.

its about Assyrians from Turkey and how the Syriac orthodox church started this aramean propaganda.



Forget Aramaic propaganda, half of west suroye is athuri anyways, its the chaldeans who are being stubborn a bit, with my experience, they in front of you may be Assyrians, but when they are together the are proud Chaldeans and think about how we all are Chaldeans and we are the ones who changed names, what like 20% of Chaldean truly believe they are Assyrian?

Personally i think deep inside they believe they are Assyrian, but they don't want to admit there nanas and granpas storys about chaldanaye is false. I think by 10 years if we don't unite we are done, long gone.

Hope for the best of our people,

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2009, 07:20:41 PM »
I doubt even 1% of the Chaldean Catholic population believe that we are all Chaldeans.

Chaldeans usually don't care, as long as they have there religion, they basically have no ethnic identity. They're happy to be Iraqi-Christians.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 07:21:02 PM by davidb »

Offline Alen Sin

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #102 on: May 23, 2009, 12:21:55 PM »
Great article!

This is why I believe in the separation of church and state.  Religious politics have always been the cause of our division, wether by our own people's hands or outsiders.  I just can't understand why and how someone would renounce their true Ashurian/Assyrian identity?!  Why wouldn't one want to be identified with one of the greatest & oldest people & culture?!

I believe whoever renounces the name Ashuraya is not worthy of the honor, therefore they know, and we know where they stand.

Khayya Mat Ashur!


Alen Barsin

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2009, 04:14:12 PM »
You can't say that all of the assyrian people are assyrians, they can also be arameans and chaldeans and so on.... arameans have almost always brown skin and assyrians have white.. .they doesn't even look so alike.... don't forget their language, they speak weird aramiac.. ...

Offline davidb

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Re: Crusade against the Assyrian name
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2009, 08:50:50 AM »
You can't say that all of the assyrian people are assyrians, they can also be arameans and chaldeans and so on.... arameans have almost always brown skin and assyrians have white.. .they doesn't even look so alike.... don't forget their language, they speak weird aramiac.. ...

No one can say all Assyrians are direct descendants of ancient Assyrians, but you can't say that Assyrians from the Syriac Church are in particular Arameans and Assyrians from the Chaldean Church are in particular Chaldeans, we are all mixed, with many different ancient Mesopotamian races.

Only reason Assyrians might look different is because of geographical reasons, it doesn't mean anything if they are from different churches. If someone from DiyarBakir doesn't look like they belong to the same race as someone from Ankawa, it doesn't mean they are different people, there is just a big gap geographically.

And Also, they don't speak weird Aramaic, it's just different dialects.

 

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