Author Topic: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD  (Read 49016 times)

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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2013, 10:32:15 PM »
The second Treatise of the first Part of ancient Church-government
By Abraham Woodhead


A reference to 'Assyrian churches' from a book published in 1688.



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #106 on: August 25, 2013, 11:12:57 PM »
A Journey from Aleppo to Damascus: With a Description of Those Two Capital ...
 By John Green
- published 1736

You can see another reference to the Assyrian church and this time without a Nestorian title.


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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #107 on: August 26, 2013, 10:19:29 AM »
The Church Record, and Protestant Episcopalian, Volume 1 published in 1845

Quote
"the Greeks in Greek, the Armenians in Armenian, the Syrians and Nestorians (who are evidently only two branches of the same people, the Assyrians) in Syriac. But the Greek is ancient Greek ; the Armenian, ancient Armenian..."



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #107 on: August 26, 2013, 10:19:29 AM »

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2013, 09:55:19 AM »
"The case for Assyrian survival and continuity after 612 B.C"

http://assyrianvoice.net/emagazine/?p=1187


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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #109 on: December 30, 2013, 11:20:45 AM »
From the book: "Byzantium and the Arabs in the Sixth Century ..., Volume 1, Part 2"
By Irfan Shahîd

"But Arethas as a client-king received a handsome salary; and byzantine gold, a steady yearly income, was much more valuable to him than the booty he is supposed to have collected from the Assyrians"

From the same book, we also read the following:

"...it is perfectly clear that Belisarius could not possibly have advanced and crossed the Tigris even if Arethas had come back and informed him on how matters stood with the Assyrians


And for those who don't know who this 'Arethas' character is, here is what Wikipedia says:

"St. Arethas or Aretas ("al-Haarith"), leader of the Christian community of Najran in the early 6th century,"




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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2014, 01:21:29 AM »
An Ecclesiastical History: From the Birth of Christ, to the Present Time, Volume 2, 1766
By Jean-Henri-Samuel Formey


"The Nestorians dwelt principally in Mesopotamia and Assyria..."

http://books.google.ca/books?id=67IAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA95&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3U1cYmV_tkFKnWvSSofBHT3_Y5JA&ci=118%2C984%2C679%2C112&edge=0



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2014, 01:42:45 AM »
"Asturia" : in my research, I found out this is yet another word to refer to 'Assyria'

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2014, 10:00:40 PM »
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire year: 1825
By: Edward Gibbon

"The number of three thousand is allowed for the whole body of the Nestorians who under the name of Chaldeans or Assyrians are confounded with the most learned or the powerful nation of eastern antiquity"


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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2014, 10:17:30 PM »
Annual Report of the Canada Foreign Missionary Society: 1865

Notice how they use both the 'Nestorian' and 'Assyrian' words in the same sentense.

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #114 on: September 28, 2014, 11:16:01 PM »
Another topic referencing several examples of Assyrians after the fall of Nineveh.

http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=16460.msg367960#msg367960


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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2015, 11:33:12 PM »
From the book "Kurds and Christians" Edited by the Rev. F. N. Heazell ... and Mrs. Margoliouth. Illustrated Unknown Binding – Illustrated, 1913

This is a good answer to those who claim that 'Assyrian' was only introduced to the church of the east in 1979!



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2015, 10:02:50 AM »
From the book "The picture gallery of the nations " , year: 1870.

Quote
he Nestorians or Protestants of the East as they have been called are a remarkable people who until lately were little known to Europe They are found in the north of Persia and in the mountains of Kurdistan regions but seldom visited by western travellers Their number is probably about a hundred and fifty thousand but the interest that attaches to them must be estimated not by their number but by their ancient history their long and heavy persecutions their present oppressed state and the influence they may yet have on the progress of the Gospel in the East They are chiefly under the power of Persia Mr Layard whose discoveries in Nineveh are well known sought to trace the origin of this people He affirms that they are the descendants of the old Assyrians After the greater part of that race had fallen by the swords of the Persians of the Greeks and of the Romans there was a remnant left who still found a home in some of the villages of the land these he considers were the forefathers of the present families of Nestorians They are called after Nestorius a priest in the church of Antioch in the fifth century who has been charged by his enemies as holding great errors in doctrine But this people object to being regarded as his followers They tell us that the apostle Thomas travelled into their country and that by




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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2015, 10:05:32 AM »
From the same book: "The picture gallery of the nations" , year: 1870.





And in the following, he describes how Assyrians (nestorians) are amongst Kurds





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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #118 on: February 13, 2015, 10:39:37 AM »
From the book: Through Asiatic Turkey: Narrative of a Journey from Bombay to the ..., Volume 2 /  By Grattan Geary

Quote
The Chaldean origin of the Chaldeans is denied by some who cannot show from what other stock the present Chaldeans really come They cannot however help extending to them the ancient name of Assyrians because the land which they now inhabit was formerly called by that name Yet they forget that especially at the end of the Assyrian monarchy Chaldean and Assyrian were synonymous words and the nation was sometimes known by one name sometimes by the other just as the words British and English are at the present day often used indifferently to signify the same people



Quote
Then Messrs Smith and Dwaight two American missionaries in their work entitled Researches in Armenia make the following comment upon the word Chaldean - The present Chaldean Christians are of recent origin. It was in ad 1681 that the Nestorian Metropolitan of Diarbekir having quarrelled with his Patriarch was first consecrated by the Pope Patriarch of the Chaldeans. The sect was as new as the office and created for it Converts to popery from the Nestorian and Jacobite churches were united in one body and dignified by the name of the Chaldean church. It means no more than Papal Syrians as we have in other parts Papal Armenians and Papal Greeks 


And from the same book, we read the following:




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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #119 on: February 13, 2015, 11:02:09 AM »
From the book: Through Asiatic Turkey: Narrative of a Journey from Bombay to the ..., Volume 2 /  By Grattan Geary
 


And from the same book, we read the following:




ASHOOR


Although Mr. Rassam is correct about the history, he makes one mistake. The main schism is the one that happened in 1551, when Assyrians split from the church of the east and were erroneously given the title 'chaldean' by the Vatican (Catholic Church)
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #120 on: February 13, 2015, 02:25:46 PM »
good find!

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #121 on: June 02, 2015, 10:49:07 AM »
The Old and New Testament connected in the history of the Jews and ...  (PUBLISHED 1749)
By Humphrey Prideaux

Quote
...written the versions of the Holy Scriptures and the Liturgies which were in use among the Syrian and Assyrian Christians and are still used by them especially by the Maronites a people inhabiting Mount Libanus where the Syriac still lives among them as a vulgar Language.

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #122 on: August 29, 2015, 11:47:10 PM »
Narrative of a Tour Through Armenia, Kurdistan, Persia and ..., Volume 2
By Horatio Southgate , year : 1840

Quote
In like manner the Chaldeans never use the term Nestorian excepting when necessary to distinguish sects I heard it in only one instance and that was when I inquired particularly for it They call themselves as they seem always to have done Chaldeans Those of them who profess to have any idea concerning their origin say that they are descended from the Assyrians and the Jacobites from the Syrians whose chief city was Damascus The appropriation of the term Chaldean to the papal seceders from the Nestorian Church was at first as unjust as the other since the schismatics were then few in number.



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #123 on: August 29, 2015, 11:48:45 PM »
The dictionary historical and critical of Mr. Peter Bayle: mentioning Assyrians in 1738 :




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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #124 on: August 29, 2015, 11:56:19 PM »


Christian researches in Syria and the Holy land in MDCCCXXIII and MDCCCXXIV ...
Assyrians mentioned in the early 18th century.



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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #125 on: August 29, 2015, 11:57:50 PM »



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Offline Shahin

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2015, 04:52:27 PM »
Assyria, Mesopotamia, Chaldea, Syria on one of the most magnificient and accurate map of the XV's century:
Frau Mauro's map (1450).

About this map (From Wikipedia):
The map is very large - the full frame measures 2,4 by 2,4 meters. This makes Fra Mauro's mappa mundi the world’s largest extant map from early modern Europe.
The main circular map of the world is surrounded by four smaller spheres:

The top left sphere is a cosmological diagram - a map of the solar system according to the Ptolemaic system.
The top right is a diagram of the four elements - earth is followed by water, fire and air.
The bottom left is an illustration of the Garden of Eden. Significantly, Fra Mauro took the step of placing the Garden of Eden outside the world, rather than in its traditional place in the extreme east.
The bottom right depicts the Earth as a globe. It shows the North pole, the South pole as well as the Equator and the two tropics.

the Fra Mauro map had an accuracy of about 86-92% of the real value when it comes to the circumference of the earth.
The sources for the map was existing maps, charts and manuscripts which were combined with written and oral accounts of travelers. The text on the map mentions many of these travel accounts.

Note that we Assyrians also drew some map, listing our historical cities: Syriac Map of the 15 century
Note also that both this map and Frau Mauro's map place the south at the top.
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #127 on: November 02, 2015, 05:01:49 PM »
Assyrian policies: The Assyrian Policies are life insurance policies that: (i) were issued by New York Life Insurance Company some time after 1882

The Assyrian policies
The Assyrian Policies are life insurance policies that: (i) were issued by New York Life Insurance Company some time after 1882, (ii) insured the life of a person of Assyrian ancestry living in the Ottoman Empire, (iii) were in effect after 1914, and (iv) have not been paid in any form, including payment of death benefits, surrender values, cash values, or endowments.

The Assyrian Life Insurance Policy Program is a program created by New York Life Insurance Company to encourage claims for benefits under certain life insurance policies issued beginning in 1882 in the Turkish Ottoman Empire insuring the lives of persons of Assyrian ancestry (the "Assyrian Policies").

Very very interesting, the jobs (Officials, Banker, Student, Doctor) of these Assyrians and the cities where they were from (Jerusalem, Dyarbakir, Constantinople, Baghdad etc...)
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

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Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2016, 05:42:19 PM »
Thanks to Mark Gewargis for the following great contribution on FB!
---------------------
"Manuscript from 987 AD written in the Arabic script identifying our people as "Ashuriyyun" and "a sect of Jesus". The author is; Abu'l-Faraj Muhammad bin Is'hāq al-Nadim."

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Offline Etain

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2016, 07:45:20 PM »
Interesting read

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #130 on: February 11, 2016, 02:51:31 PM »
thank you guys, keep it going, this thread is amazing.

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #131 on: February 13, 2016, 11:11:09 AM »
Wow, interesting. Thanks guys.

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #132 on: February 13, 2016, 08:06:35 PM »


chaldean church founding father was referred to as 'Assyrian Patriarch'


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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #133 on: February 14, 2016, 03:59:28 PM »
The Colonial Church chronicle, and missionary journal. July 1847-Dec. 1874





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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #134 on: February 14, 2016, 04:02:14 PM »
Christianity in the Modern State - Page 319

Year: 1869

Referring to Assyrians:

Quote
They trace their original conversion to Christianity to Mar Addai* and Mar Mari, of the Seventy, and reckon the latter as ... and the dangers which the Assyrian Patriarchs-elect incurred in going beyond the Persian boundary for consecration, ...

Link to the book: https://books.google.ca/books?id=Ihc3AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false




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Offline Joe25

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2016, 04:29:08 PM »
Amazing thread. Please have a back-up of everything so that we don't lose this valuable information if something ever happens to the site.

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #136 on: February 14, 2016, 04:32:23 PM »
Amazing thread. Please have a back-up of everything so that we don't lose this valuable information if something ever happens to the site.

Thank you, and yes great idea, this is not something I would want to lose, given all the years we put on it. I try to make regular back-ups of the forums, hopefully we never have to need or use it.


ASHOOR
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Offline Shahin

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #137 on: May 01, 2016, 01:05:09 PM »
Just discovered that the Syriac Orthodox Church had a patriarch named: Ignatius IV Philoxenus Nemrod (1283-1292).
Source: SIMEON OF QALȨA RUMAITA, PATRIARCH PHILOXENUS NEMROD AND BAR ȨEBROYO
Another interesting thing, around the same period, there was a syriac orthodox priest,named "Nebuchadnezzar" who owned a psalter (psalms book) (which is now the manuscripts SINAÏ SYR. 43 + VATICAN SYR. 647, FF. 24-26).
Source: L’ÉTONNANT DESTIN D’UN PSAUTIER JACOBITE DU XIIIE SIÈCLE, page 56.
Nebuchadnezzar was the son of the priest Simon son of the priest Isho from Qal'a Romayta (a village located on the west bank of the Euphrate).

« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 01:06:39 PM by Shahin »
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #138 on: May 01, 2016, 02:54:22 PM »
Just discovered that the Syriac Orthodox Church had a patriarch named: Ignatius IV Philoxenus Nemrod (1283-1292).
Source: SIMEON OF QALȨA RUMAITA, PATRIARCH PHILOXENUS NEMROD AND BAR ȨEBROYO
Another interesting thing, around the same period, there was a syriac orthodox priest,named "Nebuchadnezzar" who owned a psalter (psalms book) (which is now the manuscripts SINAÏ SYR. 43 + VATICAN SYR. 647, FF. 24-26).
Source: L’ÉTONNANT DESTIN D’UN PSAUTIER JACOBITE DU XIIIE SIÈCLE, page 56.
Nebuchadnezzar was the son of the priest Simon son of the priest Isho from Qal'a Romayta (a village located on the west bank of the Euphrate).





Very interesting, thanks for sharing!


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Offline Shahin

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Re: Assyrian continuity after the fall of the empire:612 BC-1900 AD
« Reply #139 on: May 01, 2016, 05:13:53 PM »

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!


ASHOOR

Did you notice that one of the sources is an article written by a Japanese scholar oO ? I didn't know they were interested in our history...
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

 

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