Author Topic: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?  (Read 254 times)

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Offline SonOfAssyria

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Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« on: October 24, 2017, 05:53:09 PM »
I know St Maron is an Assyrian, but can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?


"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 06:26:56 PM »
actually yes but do they match the definition of being Assyrian? Do they have any Mesopotamia ancestry?
They do speak Syriac which is Mesopotamian Aramaic BUT only in prayer. Maronites use Western Neo-Aramaic for regular language besides Arabic.
Do they regard their history as being part of Assyria or Mesopotamia?

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 06:29:10 PM »
actually yes but do they match the definition of being Assyrian? Do they have any Mesopotamia ancestry?
They do speak Syriac which is Mesopotamian Aramaic BUT only in prayer. Maronites use Western Neo-Aramaic for regular language besides Arabic.
Do they regard their history as being part of Assyria or Mesopotamia?

What I'm wondering about is why many Assyrians like to pretended that Maronites are Assyrians. Also, by Western Neo-Aramaic do you mean Turoyo or the language that the Maloulaan Aramaic speakers speak?
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 06:29:10 PM »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 06:38:35 PM »
What I'm wondering about is why many Assyrians like to pretended that Maronites are Assyrians. Also, by Western Neo-Aramaic do you mean Turoyo or the language that the Maloulaan Aramaic speakers speak?

There's two major branches of Aramaic.
Western (Levantine) and Eastern (Mesopotamian).

All Assyrians, including Suryoyo, speak Syriac or a dialect of Syriac which is Mesopotamian Aramaic.
Ma'aloula and the other Aramaic villages there use Levantine Aramaic which we can't understand because it's too different unless we specifically learn about it.

This is the #1 argument as to why Suryoyo are not really Aramean. Turoyo is a dialect of Syriac so it's part of Mesopotamian Aramaic.

You can't deny that we do have a sort of closeness with Maronites since they use Syriac in prayer and they've experienced alot of the hardships we have.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 06:43:02 PM »
There's two major branches of Aramaic.
Western (Levantine) and Eastern (Mesopotamian).

All Assyrians, including Suryoyo, speak Syriac or a dialect of Syriac which is Mesopotamian Aramaic.
Ma'aloula and the other Aramaic villages there use Levantine Aramaic which we can't understand because it's too different unless we specifically learn about it.

This is the #1 argument as to why Suryoyo are not really Aramean. Turoyo is a dialect of Syriac so it's part of Mesopotamian Aramaic.

You can't deny that we do have a sort of closeness with Maronites since they use Syriac in prayer and they've experienced a lot of the hardships we have.

I know that, but are you saying that Maronites use the Western (Levantine) Aramaic as a regular language? I've never really heard of any Maronites speaking any form of Aramaic other than in Church. This is why I do not believe they are Assyrian, just because they have some similarities with us does not automatically make them Assyrian
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 03:52:48 AM »
For the 1 millionth time, no they are not.

They are from the Levant area, their mother tongue is Arabic and they are closer to Phonecian ancestry and Arabian peninsula.

Offline Bronit Omta

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 10:04:29 AM »
I know St Maron is an Assyrian, but can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?

I've heard this before. However, where is the link between Mar Maron being Assyrian? I haven't seen a source yet.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 09:45:40 PM »
I've heard this before. However, where is the link between Mar Maron being Assyrian? I haven't seen a source yet.

Wiki says Maron was born in syria but it's unknown whether he was born in the Assyrian portion or the Aramean portion.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2017, 03:57:32 AM »
I've heard this before. However, where is the link between Mar Maron being Assyrian? I haven't seen a source yet.

I read somewhere that he was an Assyrian from the Syriac Orthodox Church and got kicked out, moved to Lebanon with his followers and founded his own church there, the Syriac Maronite Catholic Church
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Etain

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2017, 03:43:13 PM »
Wiki says Maron was born in syria but it's unknown whether he was born in the Assyrian portion or the Aramean portion.
I'm STILL not sure what Aramaens are despite browsing this place for years now. Aren't they just the Aramaic speakers in Sadad and Ma'loula?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 05:08:39 PM »
I'm STILL not sure what Aramaens are despite browsing this place for years now. Aren't they just the Aramaic speakers in Sadad and Ma'loula?

the (real) Arameans are those who speak the Western Aramaic branch. Syriac is not part of Western Aramaic since it has a significant portion of Akkadian words as part of Syriac's native vocabulary.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Can Maronites truly be considered Assyrians?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 06:24:30 AM »
I would say no. They have Phoenician and Arab ancestry for the most part. They are native to Lebanon, near the Med sea. Sure, they would have Mesopotamian heritage (everyone in the Middle East does to an extent anyway), but that won't make them full Mesopotamian peoples like us.

With that being said, they are very closely related to us, just like Mandeans. But that's about it.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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