Author Topic: Assyrians referring to themselves as "Assyrians" before the 1800's in Syriac  (Read 337 times)

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Offline SonOfAssyria

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Does anyone here have any writings or something which has Assyrians referring to themselves as "Assyrians" (as in Atouraye/Othuroye, Ashuraye/Ashuroye, Suraye/Suryoye) in Syriac?

A common argument that I've seen from these Aramean supremacists is "you did not call yourselves Assyrians before the 1800's"

Obviously, that is not true, but despite all the evidence they are shown, they dismiss it and say something like "you can't show us any evidence of you referring to yourselves as Assyrians in your own language pre-1800's, you are all brainwashed by Europeans and the British" etc.

If anyone can provide some evidence in Syriac where Assyrians refer to themselves as "Assyrians", I'll be much appreciative. These "Arameans" make me furious


"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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read this thread, has books and sources on Assyrians post empire and before 1900.

http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=18234.0

Offline SonOfAssyria

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I've seen that thread before and it has some very good sources, however I'm looking for something in Syriac
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

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Offline mrzurnaci

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I've seen that thread before and it has some very good sources, however I'm looking for something in Syriac
In Syriac? Assyria as a province was dissolved since the 600s A.D.
After that, Assyrians referred to themselves "Shorayeh" and "Sorayeh/Surayeh" which is the same word which refers to Assyria.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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In Syriac? Assyria as a province was dissolved since the 600s A.D.
After that, Assyrians referred to themselves "Shorayeh" and "Sorayeh/Surayeh" which is the same word which refers to Assyria.

I understand that, but what I'm trying to find is some sort of Syriac writing that says something like "We are the descendants of the Assyrians" that is before the 1800's. Every Aramean I've argued with has asked me to show them this evidence
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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I understand that, but what I'm trying to find is some sort of Syriac writing that says something like "We are the descendants of the Assyrians" that is before the 1800's. Every Aramean I've argued with has asked me to show them this evidence

How far before the 1800s?

Offline SonOfAssyria

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How far before the 1800s?

Something not too close to 1800s but far enough so that it's actually somewhat provoking to these Arameanists.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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Something not too close to 1800s but far enough so that it's actually somewhat provoking to these Arameanists.

well I guess the amount of Assyrianists from the Syriac Orthodox Church isn't enough to convince them lol?
So something before the 1800s AND written in Sureth?

Offline SonOfAssyria

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well I guess the amount of Assyrianists from the Syriac Orthodox Church isn't enough to convince them lol?
So something before the 1800s AND written in Sureth?

Yes lol, needs to fall under those specific requirements. Apparently we Assyrians "don't have proof of being Assyrian in our own language unlike the Arameans" lol
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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Yes lol, needs to fall under those specific requirements. Apparently we Assyrians "don't have proof of being Assyrian in our own language unlike the Arameans" lol

and what proof do the Arameanists have? All their writings are in Syriac which is proof enough that they're Assyrian... ancient and medieval Arameans didn't speak Syriac except as a secondary dialect. Arameans had their own native Aramaic dialect.

this is modern, Aramean-native Aramaic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Neo-Aramaic

Quote
Hello / Peace    Šloma
Altar server    Šammosa
Morning    Sofra
Mountain    Ṭura
Water    Moya
My mother    Emmay
God    Alo / Iloha
Sun    Šimša
Mouth    Femma
Head    Rayša
Village    Qrīṯa
I swear    B'sliba
Nice    Halya
Here / here it is    Hōẖa / Hōẖa hu
Liar    Daklona
After    Boṯar min
Son    Ebra
Brother / brothers    Ḥōna / Ḥuno
Donkey    Hmora
Tongue / language    Lišōna
Money    Kiršo
Nation    Omṯa
Year    Ešna
Moon    Sahra
King    Malka
Earth    Ar'a
Dove    Yawna
Long live!    Tschihi!
Grave    Qabra
Uncle    Hola
Father    Obu
Way    Tarba
Ocean    Yamma
Congratulations!    Briẖa!
Syriac (Aramean) / Syriacs (Arameans)    Suray / Suroy
Sky    Šmoya
Who?    Mōn?
Aunt    Holča
Love    Rhmoṯa
Kiss    Noškṯa
How are you?    Eẖ čōb? (m) / Eẖ čība? (f)
Fast    Sauma
Human    Barnōša
Holy spirit    Ruẖa qudšo
Poison    Samma
Sword    Seyfa
Bone    Germa
Blood    Edma
Half    Felka
Skin    Gelta
Hunger    H̱afna
Stone / rock    H̱efa
Vineyard    H̱arma
Back    Hassa
Goat    Ezza
Lip    Sefta
Chin / beard    Dekna
Tooth / crag    Šenna
Past    Zibnō
Queen    Malkṯa
The little man    Ġabrōna z'ora
Peace to all of you    Šloma lkhulkhun
Who is this?    Mōn hanna? (m) / Mōn hod? (f)
I am Aramean and my language is Aramaic.    Ana suray w lišoni siryon.
We are Arameans and our language is Aramaic.    Anaḥ suroy w lišonah siryon.
Church    Klesya (Greek loanword)
What's your name? (m)    Mo ošmakh? (m)
Dream    Helma
Assyrian / Assyrians    Aturay / Aturoy
Old man    Soba

Offline Cascade

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and what proof do the Arameanists have? All their writings are in Syriac which is proof enough that they're Assyrian... ancient and medieval Arameans didn't speak Syriac except as a secondary dialect. Arameans had their own native Aramaic dialect.

this is modern, Aramean-native Aramaic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Neo-Aramaic

Western Neo-Aramaic sounds a lot like our ANA dialect. Even Turoyo doesn't come as close.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Western Neo-Aramaic sounds a lot like our ANA dialect. Even Turoyo doesn't come as close.

oh the irony lol.

Offline Cascade

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It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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What irony?

I'm probably using irony incorrect but I'm saying it's ironic how Western Neo-Aramaic seems more like Assyrian but the Arameanist Turoyo speakers claim they're Aramean.

Offline Cascade

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I'm probably using irony incorrect but I'm saying it's ironic how Western Neo-Aramaic seems more like Assyrian but the Arameanist Turoyo speakers claim they're Aramean.
Isn't that a good thing? Because I did say Western Neo-Aramaic sounds like our language the most. That makes Turoyo speakers the odd ones out in the Assyrian family.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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