Author Topic: Maloula ASSYRIANS?  (Read 566 times)

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Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2018, 02:22:08 PM »
Didnt the greeks call all syrias people syrians? and there were many people living in syria, hettites, arameans, assyrians , hurrians etc, they even called hettites white-syrians, the arameans must have adopted the name syrian to suroy, and we kept it always, calling us ashurayu, shurayu, suraya, suroyo, suryoyo, because thats proven by simo parpola.

Btw, do anyone know why the greeks called assyrians western territories syria? i know syria comes from assyria but why did they call it syria?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 02:24:33 PM by Nemrud »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2018, 03:15:48 PM »
Didnt the greeks call all syrias people syrians? and there were many people living in syria, hettites, arameans, assyrians , hurrians etc, they even called hettites white-syrians, the arameans must have adopted the name syrian to suroy, and we kept it always, calling us ashurayu, shurayu, suraya, suroyo, suryoyo, because thats proven by simo parpola.

Btw, do anyone know why the greeks called assyrians western territories syria? i know syria comes from assyria but why did they call it syria?

the Greeks called it Syria because of two reasons:
1. historical - when many Greeks visited the Middle East, it was when the Assyrian empire was in control as was the region of Syria.
2. general discrimination/racism - Greeks didn't take the time or care to bother who the people were, so they just called it Syria even though Assyrians mostly lived on the Eastern part of the Furat river, not the Western part.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2018, 04:11:22 PM »
the Greeks called it Syria because of two reasons:
1. historical - when many Greeks visited the Middle East, it was when the Assyrian empire was in control as was the region of Syria.
2. general discrimination/racism - Greeks didn't take the time or care to bother who the people were, so they just called it Syria even though Assyrians mostly lived on the Eastern part of the Furat river, not the Western part.

yes, the greeks and romans saw all other people as barbarians,  i dont think the ancient assyrians did.

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2018, 04:11:22 PM »

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2018, 01:21:38 PM »
The history of Syriac can be divided into three distinct periods:

Old Aramaic, the language of the Syro-Hittite states of the Levant in the Early Iron Age, Old Aramaic was adopted as a lingua franca (besides Akkadian) in the Neo-Assyrian Empire

Middle Syriac/Middle Syriac Aramaic (ܟܬܒܢܝܐ Kṯāḇānāyā, "Literary Syriac"), which is divided into:

Eastern Middle Syriac/Eastern Middle Syriac Aramaic (the literary and ecclesiastical language of the ethnic Syriac Christians of the Assyrian Church of the East, Chaldean Catholic Church, Ancient Church of the East and Assyrian Pentecostal Church)

Western Middle Syriac/Western Middle Syriac Aramaic (the literary and ecclesiastical language of the largely Syriac members of the Syriac Orthodox Church, Syriac Catholic Church and Syriac Maronite Church).

"Modern Syriac"/"Modern Syriac Aramaic" is a term occasionally used to refer to the modern Eastern Aramaic languages.[16] Even if they cannot be positively identified as the direct descendants of attested Middle Syriac, they must have developed from closely related dialects belonging to the same branch of Aramaic, and the varieties spoken in Christian communities have long co-existed with and been influenced by Middle Syriac as a liturgical and literary language. In this terminology, Modern Syriac is divided into:

Modern Western Syriac Aramaic (Turoyo and Mlahsô). Note however that these are sometimes excluded from the category of "Modern Syriac".[16]

Modern Eastern Syriac Aramaic (Northeastern Neo-Aramaic, including Assyrian Neo-Aramaic and Chaldean Neo-Aramaic but the term usually is not used in reference to Neo-Mandaic, another variety of Eastern Aramaic spoken by the Mandaeans).

The name "Syriac", when used with no qualification, generally refers to one specific dialect of Middle Aramaic but not to Old Aramaic or to the various present-day Eastern and Central Neo-Aramaic languages descended from it or from close relatives. The modern varieties are, therefore, not discussed in this article.

Now to my question, which of these syriac language are spoken by the indian church? or other unkown churches that isnt assyrian....

What makes the syriac dialect of aramaic more assyrian than the other aramaic languages that exists, for example mandaic? all that are eastern or central aramaic etc....

Why cant maronites be assyrians? is it because they dont identify themselves as it? they do speak western syriac after all....

What is it that makes us assyrians? it cant be the language because many different ethnic groups speak it. is it because we always identify ourselves as assyrians, our forefathers?

« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 01:53:15 PM by Nemrud »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2018, 08:22:28 AM »
The history of Syriac can be divided into three distinct periods:

Old Aramaic, the language of the Syro-Hittite states of the Levant in the Early Iron Age, Old Aramaic was adopted as a lingua franca (besides Akkadian) in the Neo-Assyrian Empire

Middle Syriac/Middle Syriac Aramaic (ܟܬܒܢܝܐ Kṯāḇānāyā, "Literary Syriac"), which is divided into:

Eastern Middle Syriac/Eastern Middle Syriac Aramaic (the literary and ecclesiastical language of the ethnic Syriac Christians of the Assyrian Church of the East, Chaldean Catholic Church, Ancient Church of the East and Assyrian Pentecostal Church)

Western Middle Syriac/Western Middle Syriac Aramaic (the literary and ecclesiastical language of the largely Syriac members of the Syriac Orthodox Church, Syriac Catholic Church and Syriac Maronite Church).

"Modern Syriac"/"Modern Syriac Aramaic" is a term occasionally used to refer to the modern Eastern Aramaic languages.[16] Even if they cannot be positively identified as the direct descendants of attested Middle Syriac, they must have developed from closely related dialects belonging to the same branch of Aramaic, and the varieties spoken in Christian communities have long co-existed with and been influenced by Middle Syriac as a liturgical and literary language. In this terminology, Modern Syriac is divided into:

Modern Western Syriac Aramaic (Turoyo and Mlahsô). Note however that these are sometimes excluded from the category of "Modern Syriac".[16]

Modern Eastern Syriac Aramaic (Northeastern Neo-Aramaic, including Assyrian Neo-Aramaic and Chaldean Neo-Aramaic but the term usually is not used in reference to Neo-Mandaic, another variety of Eastern Aramaic spoken by the Mandaeans).

The name "Syriac", when used with no qualification, generally refers to one specific dialect of Middle Aramaic but not to Old Aramaic or to the various present-day Eastern and Central Neo-Aramaic languages descended from it or from close relatives. The modern varieties are, therefore, not discussed in this article.

Now to my question, which of these syriac language are spoken by the indian church? or other unkown churches that isnt assyrian....

What makes the syriac dialect of aramaic more assyrian than the other aramaic languages that exists, for example mandaic? all that are eastern or central aramaic etc....

Why cant maronites be assyrians? is it because they dont identify themselves as it? they do speak western syriac after all....

What is it that makes us assyrians? it cant be the language because many different ethnic groups speak it. is it because we always identify ourselves as assyrians, our forefathers?



easy


Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2018, 08:53:10 AM »
I dont understand....

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2018, 01:06:10 PM »
I really want to know please, because If an Aramean ask me this l want to know what to answer him...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 01:08:03 PM by Nemrud »

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2018, 07:01:35 PM »
Classical Syriac
Ashurian Aramaic
Central Neo-Aramaic
Northeastern Neo-Aramaic
Mandaic

These are all eastern aramaic with turoyo and assyrian with it. If we are assyrians because of the language then mandeans can be it to.....

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2018, 08:21:50 PM »
Classical Syriac
Ashurian Aramaic
Central Neo-Aramaic
Northeastern Neo-Aramaic
Mandaic

These are all eastern aramaic with turoyo and assyrian with it. If we are assyrians because of the language then mandeans can be it to.....

Mandeans were originally not Assyrian, it's possible they became Assyrian over the centuries.
Another idea I have is maybe the Mandeans we know today are Assyrians who converted to Manda'ism.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »
But WHY are we West and East assyrians, is it because we call ourselves suroyo/suraya and our language suraya = syriac=assyrian? Syriac was one East Aramaic developed from the neo assyrian empire, While the West Aramaic of the Arameans are Almost extinct, the East Aramaic is dominant of the Assyrians and other Peoples?

Subdivisions
Assyrian Neo-Aramaic
Lishanid Noshan
Bohtan Neo-Aramaic
Barzani Jewish Neo-Aramaic
Chaldean Neo-Aramaic
Hértevin
Hulaulá
Koy Sanjaq Surat
Lishana Deni
Senaya
Lishán Didán
Jewish Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

These languages are all northeastern neoaramaic, East assyrian is among it. We must not forget that the Assyrian empire Made Aramaic its official language so we cant say we are the Only people that speak eastern Aramaic, There May be other people in Mesopotamia that spoke it. The language cant make us assyrians, even if it is part of it, There are even Jews that speak eastern Aramaic.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2018, 08:32:05 PM »
But WHY are we West and East assyrians, is it because we call ourselves suroyo/suraya and our language suraya = syriac=assyrian? Syriac was one East Aramaic developed from the neo assyrian empire, While the West Aramaic of the Arameans are Almost extinct, the East Aramaic is dominant of the Assyrians and other Peoples?

Subdivisions
Assyrian Neo-Aramaic
Lishanid Noshan
Bohtan Neo-Aramaic
Barzani Jewish Neo-Aramaic
Chaldean Neo-Aramaic
Hértevin
Hulaulá
Koy Sanjaq Surat
Lishana Deni
Senaya
Lishán Didán
Jewish Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

These languages are all northeastern neoaramaic, East assyrian is among it. We must not forget that the Assyrian empire Made Aramaic its official language so we cant say we are the Only people that speak eastern Aramaic, There May be other people in Mesopotamia that spoke it. The language cant make us assyrians, even if it is part of it, There are even Jews that speak eastern Aramaic.

who else speaks Eastern Aramaic other than Mandeans? Mandeans number only 70K

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2018, 09:44:13 AM »
who else speaks Eastern Aramaic other than Mandeans? Mandeans number only 70K

There are also Jews? But l understand your point.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2018, 02:54:55 PM »
There are also Jews? But l understand your point.

those Jews that speak Eastern Aramaic are Assyrian jews though.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2018, 12:13:40 AM »
those Jews that speak Eastern Aramaic are Assyrian jews though.

So you are saying that the language is what makes us assyrians?

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2018, 12:15:25 AM »
Just curious, should we say that syriac or East Aramaic is what makes us assyrians?

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2018, 01:07:14 AM »
If we ever had a country our language should be called assyrian Aramaic, "Assyrian" for we are assyrians and speak East Aramaic, and aramaic cause we speak it.

We should be happy that everytime someone mention the oldest living languages, they mention Aramaic in the top 10.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2018, 08:12:22 AM »
If we ever had a country our language should be called assyrian Aramaic, "Assyrian" for we are assyrians and speak East Aramaic, and aramaic cause we speak it.

We should be happy that everytime someone mention the oldest living languages, they mention Aramaic in the top 10.

So Syriac then lol? Syriac is the name denoting Eastern Aramaic because every other Eastern Aramaic dialect from that time is extinct. All modern eastern Aramaic dialects derive from Syriac + other obscure dialects.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2018, 11:46:32 AM »
So Syriac then lol? Syriac is the name denoting Eastern Aramaic because every other Eastern Aramaic dialect from that time is extinct. All modern eastern Aramaic dialects derive from Syriac + other obscure dialects.

People doesnt know what syriac is, Only assyrian and The famous Aramaic. Also, l would like to have the name Aramaic, because its famous.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 11:47:39 AM by Nemrud »

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2018, 09:19:06 AM »
I dont think suroyo/suraya means assyrian because maloula people call themselves suroy.... But l do believe they are Arameans and we are assyrians.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 09:19:47 AM by Nemrud »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2018, 06:44:50 PM »
I dont think suroyo/suraya means assyrian because maloula people call themselves suroy.... But l do believe they are Arameans and we are assyrians.

suroy/suroyo/suraya is an alternative or short form of "suryaya/suryoyo" which means "Syrian".


Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2018, 03:44:38 AM »
suroy/suroyo/suraya is an alternative or short form of "suryaya/suryoyo" which means "Syrian".

Im fairly certain that Suroyo/Suraya is more correct and Suryoyo/Suryaya are corrupted versions.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2018, 06:10:19 AM »
suroy/suroyo/suraya is an alternative or short form of "suryaya/suryoyo" which means "Syrian".



According to Simo parpola we got it from Ashurayu, and we always called us Assyrians, but then suroy also means assyrians.

Did we adopt suroyo? Did they adopt suroy? Syrian meant Aramean or assyrian. Someone explain please!

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2018, 10:16:04 AM »
According to Simo parpola we got it from Ashurayu, and we always called us Assyrians, but then suroy also means assyrians.

Did we adopt suroyo? Did they adopt suroy? Syrian meant Aramean or assyrian. Someone explain please!

Well, since "Suraya" comes from "Ashuraya", they would have 'adopted' it.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2018, 01:26:43 PM »
Hmm so u think Arameans adopted suroy? But we not? But why did they adopt it? And how do you know we didnt adopt it?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 01:51:17 PM by Nemrud »

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2018, 07:43:03 AM »
Noone knows???

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2018, 09:34:34 AM »
Hmm so u think Arameans adopted suroy? But we not? But why did they adopt it? And how do you know we didnt adopt it?

I think they adopted after many years of Greek-Roman-Byzantine rule that named the province as Syria.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2018, 10:15:39 AM »
I think they adopted after many years of Greek-Roman-Byzantine rule that named the province as Syria.
how do you know we didnt adopt suroyo? we called assyrians othuroye, not suroye.....

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:17:13 AM by Nemrud »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #62 on: Yesterday at 05:04:29 AM »
So Syriac then lol? Syriac is the name denoting Eastern Aramaic because every other Eastern Aramaic dialect from that time is extinct. All modern eastern Aramaic dialects derive from Syriac + other obscure dialects.
Just call it Aramaic and get it over with.

Syriac is pretty much an offshoot of Aramaic and is an extinct language itself. In other words, Syriac is a language from the 1st century AD.

Aramaic accounts for all modern Aramaic languages.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #63 on: Yesterday at 06:28:51 AM »
Just call it Aramaic and get it over with.

Syriac is pretty much an offshoot of Aramaic and is an extinct language itself. In other words, Syriac is a language from the 1st century AD.

Aramaic accounts for all modern Aramaic languages.

Assyrian maybe? Because we are assyrians, We should call it assyrian? For example, swedes call their language swedish....Scots call their language scottish, Arabs call their language arabic etc

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Maloula ASSYRIANS?
« Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 11:44:39 AM »
Assyrian Neo-Aramaic.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

 

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