Author Topic: Should Christianity be our state religion?  (Read 994 times)

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Offline mrzurnaci

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Should Christianity be our state religion?
« on: September 04, 2017, 05:51:07 PM »
I think by law we should force our churches to unite into one or else jail time for treason



Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 03:32:02 AM »
And you say you're a deist. -_-
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 11:40:43 AM »
And you say you're a deist. -_-

If I wasn't a Deist, would I really recommend threatening the church with jail time? :P

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 12:58:53 AM »
If I wasn't a Deist, would I really recommend threatening the church with jail time? :P
Threatening the churches that you're not part with. Believers have done that since day one. ;)

To answer this thread, I guess I won't be very against it as a couple of European countries have Christianity as a state religion and they're faring well.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 01:46:05 AM »
Threatening the churches that you're not part with. Believers have done that since day one. ;)

To answer this thread, I guess I won't be very against it as a couple of European countries have Christianity as a state religion and they're faring well.
If the Churches are going to play politics, then they better have the military power to back it up... Attempting to undermine political parties against the wishes of the people is treason in many definitions.

Secondly, how would Christianity be our state religion when Assyrians believe in 2 different forms: Catholic and Orthodox Christianity. Which one would we follow?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 03:27:14 AM »
If the Churches are going to play politics, then they better have the military power to back it up... Attempting to undermine political parties against the wishes of the people is treason in many definitions.

Secondly, how would Christianity be our state religion when Assyrians believe in 2 different forms: Catholic and Orthodox Christianity. Which one would we follow?
Isn't the Assyrian Church of the East more popular? I don't know.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 02:36:38 AM »
Isn't the Assyrian Church of the East more popular? I don't know.

in terms of the total Assyrian population? No, Chaldean church makes up the larger percentage, I think it's 50%+.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 02:50:02 AM »
in terms of the total Assyrian population? No, Chaldean church makes up the larger percentage, I think it's 50%+.
I always hear this. I think this statistic is hogwash.

We're talking about Assyrians from Tyari (and their clans), Baz, Gawar, Nochiya, Jelu, Barwar, Halmon, Urmia and dozens of other tribes that consider themselves Assyrian. I'm pretty sure we would make the larger percentage (and I'm aware of the Ancient Church of the East adherents and Assyrian Protestants, which are a small minority anyway). Chaldean tribes are much lesser in comparison, and they tell us that the Chaldean Church is the most adhered to? It seems fishy.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 07:41:24 AM »
Assyrians are an ethnoreligious Christian people. Christianity will without a doubt be the state religion. As far as the Churches needing to be united into one, I'm not sure if that is really necessary. I do agree that diversity destroys social cohesion, but the only way we will even be able to get a state is if we can unite together despite being part of different churches, and see how similar we are to each other and how small our differences seem in comparison. I think we will all be on the same page and be proud to all ourselves Assyrians. Besides, even today you see so many Assyrians getting married to other Assyrians of different churches, I think the sectarian rivalry mostly comes from our Priests, but to everyone else it doesn't really matter to them. If (when) we do get a state, I don't think our people will have the same problems with sectarian rivalry as we do now, and I don't think it will cause many issues.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 02:30:49 PM »
I always hear this. I think this statistic is hogwash.

We're talking about Assyrians from Tyari (and their clans), Baz, Gawar, Nochiya, Jelu, Barwar, Halmon, Urmia and dozens of other tribes that consider themselves Assyrian. I'm pretty sure we would make the larger percentage (and I'm aware of the Ancient Church of the East adherents and Assyrian Protestants, which are a small minority anyway). Chaldean tribes are much lesser in comparison, and they tell us that the Chaldean Church is the most adhered to? It seems fishy.

I guess you're right, there's no valid statistics or census taken at all.

Offline KingA

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 09:23:03 AM »
A secular state is all we need.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 11:18:21 AM »
A secular state is all we need.

a pro-Christian secular state sounds the most rational

Offline KingA

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 02:19:50 PM »
a pro-Christian secular state sounds the most rational


Secular state and religious society; the result will be a pro-Christan secular state.
In fact, must of the European countries are pro Christiany, although they are secular states, so why not us.
As long our  constitution is NOT inspired on any religious law, I will be happy.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2018, 03:41:40 PM »

Secular state and religious society; the result will be a pro-Christan secular state.
In fact, must of the European countries are pro Christiany, although they are secular states, so why not us.
As long our  constitution is NOT inspired on any religious law, I will be happy.


And aslong they dont teach the bible on schools l would be happy, but the thing is There are so little of nonreligious assyrians that l am afraid they will teach the bible in schools, which is completely wrong. Science should be teached.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 09:11:37 PM »
And aslong they dont teach the bible on schools l would be happy, but the thing is There are so little of nonreligious assyrians that l am afraid they will teach the bible in schools, which is completely wrong. Science should be teached.

Science will be taught but the question is: classes about religion?

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 05:08:01 AM »
And aslong they dont teach the bible on schools l would be happy, but the thing is There are so little of nonreligious assyrians that l am afraid they will teach the bible in schools, which is completely wrong. Science should be teached.

I don't see the problem in teaching the Bible in schools. Just because religion is taught in schools does not mean science can not be taught as well. You make it seem as if the Bible is some sort of evil book that teaches people to hate logic and science. I believe Christianity and Science complement each other and do not necessarily conflict with one another. This is probably going to create a huge religion vs science argument lol...
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 10:33:35 AM »
I don't see the problem in teaching the Bible in schools. Just because religion is taught in schools does not mean science can not be taught as well. You make it seem as if the Bible is some sort of evil book that teaches people to hate logic and science. I believe Christianity and Science complement each other and do not necessarily conflict with one another. This is probably going to create a huge religion vs science argument lol...

I know bible teaches good but l am non religious and agonstic and l dont see bible as scientific evidence, of course science has theories about many things but they are trying to find the truth about the world, science tell us we are assyrians through excavations and evidence. While l am not telling u to believe in science but l myself believe in it because it got atleast evidence, which the bible lack.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2018, 10:37:04 AM »
And the reason l dislike Christian assyrians a little bit is because when u tell them u dont believe in it they attack u. Why cant non religious and Christians live in peace with eatchother, its the Christians that start attack u and then u must play protective and try not to make them more mad at u.

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2018, 10:44:23 AM »
Science will be taught but the question is: classes about religion?

This i am for, then we let the children decide what they want to believe in.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 11:55:12 PM »
And the reason l dislike Christian assyrians a little bit is because when u tell them u dont believe in it they attack u. Why cant non religious and Christians live in peace with eatchother, its the Christians that start attack u and then u must play protective and try not to make them more mad at u.
That's exactly the main problem within our ethnicity. Dogmatism.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2018, 02:59:50 AM »
I know bible teaches good but l am non religious and agonstic and l dont see bible as scientific evidence, of course science has theories about many things but they are trying to find the truth about the world, science tell us we are assyrians through excavations and evidence. While l am not telling u to believe in science but l myself believe in it because it got atleast evidence, which the bible lack.

Who said the bible lacks evidence?
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2018, 09:45:32 AM »
Who said the bible lacks evidence?
It does have some evidence but the supernatural cant be real.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 09:46:20 AM by Nemrud »

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2018, 06:53:42 AM »
That's exactly the main problem within our ethnicity. Dogmatism.

I agree.

It does have some evidence but the supernatural cant be real.

That is your subjective opinion. It is a miracle in itself that this universe came to be. There is simply no other logical conclusion regarding how and why the universe came to being other than it being created by a supernatural force, with supernatural being defined as something beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature , in other words, by God.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2018, 06:58:34 AM »
I agree.

That is your subjective opinion. It is a miracle in itself that this universe came to be. There is simply no other logical conclusion regarding how and why the universe came to being other than it being created by a supernatural force, with supernatural being defined as something beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature , in other words, by God.

Who said i didnt believe in god? I believe There might be something somewhere but then again am not sure because If god created the Universe then who created god? Did he create himself

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2018, 06:59:52 AM »
I dont really mind christianity, i just want science to be teached in university and schools, or l might not support the country hehe
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 07:00:27 AM by Nemrud »

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2018, 07:30:46 AM »
Who said i didnt believe in god? I believe There might be something somewhere but then again am not sure because If god created the Universe then who created god? Did he create himself

I've heard this same argument so many times. To asks "Who created God" assumes that God is of the same nature of his creation, assuming a limited God, which is false. Only things that have a beginning, or things which at one point did not exist, require a creator. According to the Biblical definition of God, God is ever present, he has always existed, meaning he logically lacks the requirement for a creator as he has no beginning. He did not create himself, he always existed.

The only way God cannot exist is if the universe always existed. However, since we now know that the universe had a beginning (thanks to science), we can logically assume that there must of been a certain force which caused the universe to come into existence, further proving the existence of God.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2018, 08:09:12 AM »
I've heard this same argument so many times. To asks "Who created God" assumes that God is of the same nature of his creation, assuming a limited God, which is false. Only things that have a beginning, or things which at one point did not exist, require a creator. According to the Biblical definition of God, God is ever present, he has always existed, meaning he logically lacks the requirement for a creator as he has no beginning. He did not create himself, he always existed.

The only way God cannot exist is if the universe always existed. However, since we now know that the universe had a beginning (thanks to science), we can logically assume that there must of been a certain force which caused the universe to come into existence, further proving the existence of God.

Yes, but  l never read that the universe never did exist, some says it was Always There.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2018, 08:20:39 AM »
Yes, but  l never read that the universe never did exist, some says it was Always There.


All evidence points to the universe having a beginning.
Even Stephen Hawking agrees the universe had a beginning and was not always in existence:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2018, 09:06:05 AM »
All evidence points to the universe having a beginning.
Even Stephen Hawking agrees the universe had a beginning and was not always in existence:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html


I have read it and now believes, before l didnt believe in god but now l believe but still not sure, We can Only know for sure when we die.  I am still an agnostic though because the bible didnt teach evolution which is proven to be fact, and also There are thousands of religions in the world, some is created today and get followers, and everybody believes strongly in his religion and says it is the right religion, and all others is fake, what evidence do u have that proves christianity is the true one?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 09:07:13 AM by Nemrud »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2018, 04:17:55 AM »
I've heard this same argument so many times. To asks "Who created God" assumes that God is of the same nature of his creation, assuming a limited God, which is false. Only things that have a beginning, or things which at one point did not exist, require a creator. According to the Biblical definition of God, God is ever present, he has always existed, meaning he logically lacks the requirement for a creator as he has no beginning. He did not create himself, he always existed.

The only way God cannot exist is if the universe always existed. However, since we now know that the universe had a beginning (thanks to science), we can logically assume that there must of been a certain force which caused the universe to come into existence, further proving the existence of God.
Just because the bible says something doesn't mean it's not illogical to nature. Everything must have a beginning. The bible can say anything about god being existing forever and whatnot, doesn't make it true. Creationists tell us of a watch and painting found in a remote desert, and that they all must have a creator, right? Well, this logic applies to god himself. Doesn't he have a creator as well? And why is only the biblical god true? What about the Roman, Greek, Assyrian, Hindu, etc, gods? You see, our god is not that special.
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Offline SonOfAssyria

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2018, 05:58:30 AM »
Just because the bible says something doesn't mean it's not illogical to nature. Everything must have a beginning. The bible can say anything about god being existing forever and whatnot, doesn't make it true. Creationists tell us of a watch and painting found in a remote desert, and that they all must have a creator, right? Well, this logic applies to god himself. Doesn't he have a creator as well? And why is only the biblical god true? What about the Roman, Greek, Assyrian, Hindu, etc, gods? You see, our god is not that special.

It seems like you yourself agree that everything must have a beginning. I agree with this too, to an extent. In order for anything to exist, there must be something which has always existed. Think about it, if we were to say that God himself had a creator, we would then have to ask who created God's creator, and then ask who created God's creator's creator and this will keep going in a sort of paradoxical endless loop. It is inevitable that it eventually must get to the point where there is a certain being who always existed and is the reason for all creation to come into existence, because without this particular being there is absolutely no way for anything to exist. Therefore, it is logical to assume that God must be, by definition, always in existence. For creation to come in existence there must be a certain being who has always existed even before creation or else we will be stuck in a paradoxical endless loop where nothing can exist. The only way around this would be to say that the universe itself was always in existence, thus removing the requirement of God for it's existence, but as I mentioned earlier, we know that the universe has a beginning. The only way the universe can exist is God.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2018, 08:35:33 AM »
It seems like you yourself agree that everything must have a beginning. I agree with this too, to an extent. In order for anything to exist, there must be something which has always existed. Think about it, if we were to say that God himself had a creator, we would then have to ask who created God's creator, and then ask who created God's creator's creator and this will keep going in a sort of paradoxical endless loop.

And that's why this paradox just makes the existence of a god really improbable. You're right, the loop will go on and on to the point of absurdity. Therefore, the existence of a god would be really unlikely. Everything must have a beginning, right? Yes, and god shouldn't be out of question.

Quote
It is inevitable that it eventually must get to the point where there is a certain being who always existed and is the reason for all creation to come into existence, because without this particular being there is absolutely no way for anything to exist. Therefore, it is logical to assume that God must be, by definition, always in existence. For creation to come in existence there must be a certain being who has always existed even before creation or else we will be stuck in a paradoxical endless loop where nothing can exist. The only way around this would be to say that the universe itself was always in existence, thus removing the requirement of God for it's existence, but as I mentioned earlier, we know that the universe has a beginning. The only way the universe can exist is God.
Just because we don't know what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean God did it or was there. You're abiding to the "god of the gaps" theology here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps). That's why I'm an agnostic on this matter. We just don't know. If a deity is proven to be the creator, then I will be happy either way. Mind you, if you were saying that God surely doesn't exist I will still give you the same sentiments - You don't know and you cannot assume this.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Nemrud

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2018, 09:43:52 AM »

And that's why this paradox just makes the existence of a god really improbable. You're right, the loop will go on and on to the point of absurdity. Therefore, the existence of a god would be really unlikely. Everything must have a beginning, right? Yes, and god shouldn't be out of question.
Just because we don't know what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean God did it or was there. You're abiding to the "god of the gaps" theology here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps). That's why I'm an agnostic on this matter. We just don't know. If a deity is proven to be the creator, then I will be happy either way. Mind you, if you were saying that God surely doesn't exist I will still give you the same sentiments - You don't know and you cannot assume this.

Welcome to the agnostic club

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2018, 11:05:00 AM »

And that's why this paradox just makes the existence of a god really improbable. You're right, the loop will go on and on to the point of absurdity. Therefore, the existence of a god would be really unlikely. Everything must have a beginning, right? Yes, and god shouldn't be out of question.
Just because we don't know what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean God did it or was there. You're abiding to the "god of the gaps" theology here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps). That's why I'm an agnostic on this matter. We just don't know. If a deity is proven to be the creator, then I will be happy either way. Mind you, if you were saying that God surely doesn't exist I will still give you the same sentiments - You don't know and you cannot assume this.

However, you still can't remove religion. It's proven that controlling our animal urges has led to civilization and improving. Secondly, religion works better than a cultural philosophy because the cultural can be lost at any point in the civilization; proof of this is in Rome when the Roman virtues, that helped Rome become great, were lost over generations.

Religion is pretty good at keeping Extroverted sheeple civil and advancing society further with the exception of Islam.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2018, 01:02:59 AM »
However, you still can't remove religion. It's proven that controlling our animal urges has led to civilization and improving. Secondly, religion works better than a cultural philosophy because the cultural can be lost at any point in the civilization; proof of this is in Rome when the Roman virtues, that helped Rome become great, were lost over generations.

Religion is pretty good at keeping Extroverted sheeple civil and advancing society further with the exception of Islam.
I know. I don't think that all religions are equally bad, or that all religions are bad either way (some are quite good, like Taoism, Shintoism, some forms of Christianity and Buddhism). So I can see your point. However, I just don't think we need religion today per se. Sure, it helped us in the past, but today? I don't know. Sort of like milk drinking. Vital when we were babies. But not so much as adults and we don't need to rely on milk to live. I would exclude Assyrians here though because our church does unite us and help us learn our language. But in Europe and among western cultures, there's really no use for religion.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

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Re: Should Christianity be our state religion?
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by peachy
Templates: 4: index (default), Ads (default), Display (default), SimTopics (default).
Sub templates: 12: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, simtopics_above, main, simtopics_below, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 8: index+Modifications.english (default), index+Modifications.english-utf8 (default), markItUp.english (default), markItUp.english-utf8 (default), SimTopics.english (default), SimTopics.english-utf8 (default), Ads.english (default), Ads.english-utf8 (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 28 - 912KB. (show)
Queries used: 26.

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