Author Topic: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible  (Read 1865 times)

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Offline jacob

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Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« on: May 20, 2009, 12:29:29 PM »
So what's that about holy war being the tool of the Muslim enemy?  My favorite part is that these Bible quotes were on intelligence briefings.  No wonder our intelligence was so good.

The Pentagon said Monday it no longer includes a Bible quote on the cover page of daily intelligence briefings it sends to the White House as was practice during the Bush administration.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he did not know how long the Worldwide Intelligence Update cover sheets quoted from the Bible. Air Force Maj. Gen. Glen Shaffer, who was responsible for including them, retired in August 2003, according to his biography.

For a period in 2003, at least, the daily reports prepared for President George W. Bush carried quotes from the books of Psalms and Ephesians and the epistles of Peter. At the time, the reports focused largely on the war in Iraq.

The Bible quotes apparently aimed to support Bush at a time when soldiers' deaths in Iraq were on the rise, according to the June issue of GQ magazine. But they offended at least one Muslim analyst at the Pentagon and worried other employees that the passages were inappropriate.

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, for example, the report quoted the book of Psalms — "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him. ... To deliver their soul from death." — and featured pictures of the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down and celebrating crowds in Baghdad.

"Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand," read the cover quote two weeks earlier, on March 31, above a picture of a U.S. tank driving through the desert, according to the magazine, which obtained copies of the documents.

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, on Monday said U.S. soldiers "are not Christian crusaders, and they ought not be depicted as such."

"Depicting the Iraq conflict as some sort of holy war is completely outrageous," Lynn said in a statement. "It's contrary to the constitutional separation of religion and government, and it's tremendously damaging to America's reputation in the world."

EDIT:  Source added  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/05/18/national/w151332D31.DTL
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 12:30:28 PM by jacob »



Offline baklawa

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 12:35:28 PM »
Apparently this was Rumsfeld's idea, his way of making sure bush didn't lose faith in their war, even when it was becoming as clear as day that it was a huge disaster. 

So they have their jihadists and we have our crusaders.  Same crazy, delusional beliefs, different name.
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »
This is not about 'holy war' crap, but I think it is a beautiful thing to quote things from the bible. You don't have to quote anything violent (and yes, the old testament does have a lot of that) but just things to inspire and learn from.

If anything, this should have been changed and not stopped altogether.

ASHOOR
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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 12:40:23 PM »
Every unit in the US army has its own chapel, where they get blessings, teaching, inspiration, and much help at time of war and diffeculty. Same with the pentagon. Being in charge of defending a whole country like the US, and your allies, is not easy, and wouldn't hurt to have some inspiration from the bible.



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Offline baklawa

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 12:41:51 PM »
This is not about 'holy war' crap, but I think it is a beautiful thing to quote things from the bible. You don't have to quote anything violent (and yes, the old testament does have a lot of that) but just things to inspire and learn from.

If anything, this should have been changed and not stopped altogether.

ASHOOR

Oh come on Ashoor, it is the very definition of holy war -- using religious texts to justify waging war.  

Colin Powell's assistant while he was Secretary of State, Lawrence Wilkerson (a republican by the way), has come out and attacked the bush administration saying they used torture tactics mainly to try and link Iraq to 9/11 and al-qaeda.  Richard Clark and other former intelligence analysts have said bush and cheney tried to get the CIA to state that there were links where none existed.  These people caused death and destruction and lied at every turn, and then justified it using biblical quotes.  I can't even begin to describe how disastrous and irresponsible that is.
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 12:54:27 PM »
Baklawa, my meaning is that not every Bible quote is used for 'holy war' purposes. That is what I called crap.

Even Iraq's parliament has a bible quote, from Jesus himself: is that holy war declaration?

So yeah, now you know what I mean, which is why they shouldn't have touched it, but merely changed its purpose and use.

ASHOOR
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Offline GGBW

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 12:55:47 PM »
This is not about 'holy war' crap, but I think it is a beautiful thing to quote things from the bible Koran. You don't have to quote anything violent (and yes, the old testament Koran does have a lot of that) but just things to inspire and learn from.

If anything, this should have been changed and not stopped altogether.

ASHOOR

:)

Offline GGBW

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 12:56:38 PM »
Baklawa, my meaning is that not every Bible Koranic quote is used for 'holy war' purposes. That is what I called crap.

Even Iraq's parliament has a bible Koranic quote, from Jesus Allah himself: is that holy war declaration?

So yeah, now you know what I mean, which is why they shouldn't have touched it, but merely changed its purpose and use.

ASHOOR

:)

Offline MXJSPH

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 01:00:29 PM »
Smoooooooooth.

"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

Friedrich Nietzsche

civilisedviolence.wordpress.com

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 01:08:07 PM »
Waleeta, you might as well replace every word in my post with your own word, how about that? lol...

And frankly, I have no idea what you mean: if it is all the same to you, you need to read them both again.

Anyway, like I said, I like how they justified this by simply inserting the word 'holy war' and how this whole thing was supposedly used as an excuse for a 'holy war.'

Looks like we do need a real 'holy war' to rejustify the use of the bible quotes, eh?


ASHOOR
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Offline jacob

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 01:11:44 PM »
The quotes they are using in the cited examples are quotes of holy war and provide the justification that religious crazies, like the people that ran this country, need to wage their holy war.  This is exactly what we claim the Muslims do.  Just because Christians believe their God or religion is better doesn't actually make it so. When you take a step back from it all, it all looks the same in this context.  One book being used to justify war over the people of a different book.

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 01:15:50 PM »
The quotes they are using in the cited examples are quotes of holy war and provide the justification that religious crazies, like the people that ran this country, need to wage their holy war.  This is exactly what we claim the Muslims do.  Just because Christians believe their God or religion is better doesn't actually make it so. When you take a step back from it all, it all looks the same in this context.  One book being used to justify war over the people of a different book.

Exactly! Which is why I said, no need to change the whole thing, just merely change the quotes.

What is wrong with putting a beautiful quote like the following:

"Peace be to you, fear not"

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand"

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law"


You see what I mean? simple quotes that can inspire anyone (Christian, Muslim, Atheist etc)

Now I know I know (I have enough experience now), I know you guys will come back and say: "but how will we ensure that the verses selected are still not not violent?" and to that I say, if you are going to worry about every detail, then God help you (and no that is not a bible quote!) :)

ASHOOR
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 01:17:10 PM by ASHOOR »
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Offline GGBW

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 01:24:59 PM »
Anyway, like I said, I like how they justified this by simply inserting the word 'holy war' and how this whole thing was supposedly used as an excuse for a 'holy war.'

Looks like we do need a real 'holy war' to rejustify the use of the bible Koranic quotes, eh?
ASHOOR

:)

Offline MXJSPH

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 01:25:32 PM »
Under no conditions of war or conflict should the inclusion of scripture be deemed appropriate, for whatever culture or faith. There is no place for it.

The reality is there are very few extremists willing to do anything violent, but their numbers become magnified once you start attributing universal codes of conduct to them as religion regrettably does. It was an invasion conducted by government contractors who saw Iraq as an easier place to invade than North Korea or especially Iran. The religious element is periphery to the situation, but by allowing for its inclusion, more support can be generated for the invasion from crazies who now thankfully represent a dwindling minority in the American public. Religion in public life is destined to die, but prepare for it to go kicking and screaming to its grave.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offline jacob

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 01:29:27 PM »
Exactly! Which is why I said, no need to change the whole thing, just merely change the quotes.

What is wrong with putting a beautiful quote like the following:

"Peace be to you, fear not"

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand"

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law"


You see what I mean? simple quotes that can inspire anyone (Christian, Muslim, Atheist etc)

Now I know I know (I have enough experience now), I know you guys will come back and say: "but how will we ensure that the verses selected are still not not violent?" and to that I say, if you are going to worry about every detail, then God help you (and no that is not a bible quote!) :)

ASHOOR

But none of those quotes will inspire the crusaders on to victory over the enemy.

I'm pretty sure the solution here isn't to find nicer Bible quotes, it's to do away with them altogether and put some effort into actually having good intelligence.  What a waste of time it was to sit there coming up with Bible quotes to put on the cover page to make an infant of a man happy, when they should've been collecting good intel on wmd's.  Even though we know they already had the intel and decided to go on despite the facts of lack of weapons on Saddam's part.

Offline GGBW

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 01:32:49 PM »
Exactly! Which is why I said, no need to change the whole thing, just merely change the quotes.

What is wrong with putting a beautiful quote like the following:

"Peace be to you, fear not" "And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Sura 25:63]

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand"  Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity. [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law"[/b] "Hold to forgiveness, command what is right" [Sura 7:199]

You see what I mean? simple quotes that can inspire anyone (Christian, Muslim, Atheist etc)

Now I know I know (I have enough experience now), I know you guys will come back and say: "but how will we ensure that the verses selected are still not not violent?" and to that I say, if you are going to worry about every detail, then God Allah help you (and no that is not a bible Quranic quote!)

ASHOOR

:)

Offline baklawa

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 01:35:07 PM »
Waleeta, Ashoor is so going to ban you after this!  :loool:
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline Naram-Sin

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 01:37:05 PM »
Will they still include the quotes on the cover of the TPS reports?  If not, then they need to be talked to.

Offline GGBW

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Re: Pentagon reports no longer quote Bible
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 01:37:41 PM »
Will they still include the quotes on the cover of the TPS reports?  If not, then they need to be talked to.

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