Author Topic: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?  (Read 14773 times)

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Offline Senator_Danavi

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I was surprised to hear some of our academic elders responses and stances regarding this no-brainer question.

Let us see if our peers are much smarter...



OR

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 04:26:39 AM by Senator_Danavi »



Offline sydneydude

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 05:14:38 AM »
read the article "a dummies guide to assyrian politics" on www.assyrianblog.com

Offline sydneydude

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 05:42:41 AM »
its not about shiite vs. kurd vs. sunni

its about tieing ourselves to a central government with international support

we need to think about our people in the major cities and not just houses and buildings

we need to think about SUSTAINABLE and PERMANENT solutions and not a quick fix bandaid solution

regardless of which political parties dominate the iraqi government at the moment, a decision to have a baghdad endorsed resolution is the most sensible thing to work for at the moment.

think about the impact and possible backlash on our people from the sunnis, iranians and turks if we sell out to the kurds.

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 05:42:41 AM »

Offline Tambur

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 05:44:21 AM »
How about the option of neither? both of them can't be trusted.

Anyways, if I really had to choose one it will probably be the Kurds because unlike Arabs they're not very religious, if you're good to them they'll treat you nicely, perhaps they have an agenda of Kurdifying us, but if we're smart enough we can invade and Assyrianize our masters within, it can be done people.

Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2007, 10:39:24 AM »
I was surprised to hear some of our academic elders responses and stances regarding this no-brainer question.

Let us see if our peers are much smarter...



OR




Whichever gives Assyrians security, respects our political authorities, allows us to define who WE are, encourages rather than hinders economic development, doesn't discriminate against our religion or our ethnicity, and respects our rights to reclaim lost land.
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline baklawa

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2007, 11:38:39 AM »
How about the option of neither? both of them can't be trusted.

Anyways, if I really had to choose one it will probably be the Kurds because unlike Arabs they're not very religious, if you're good to them they'll treat you nicely, perhaps they have an agenda of Kurdifying us, but if we're smart enough we can invade and Assyrianize our masters within, it can be done people.

What?!?! :blink: During and after the genocide perpetrated against us by the Turks AND the Kurds, many of our people were taken in and protected by Arabs, especially certain Bedouin tribes like the Tays (read Fred Aprim's book.)  Kurds are famous for being extremely disloyal, so I have no clue where you came up with that line about being nice.

BTW, Iraqi Central Government........duh!!!!
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2007, 11:56:21 AM »
How about the option of neither? both of them can't be trusted.

Anyways, if I really had to choose one it will probably be the Kurds because unlike Arabs they're not very religious, if you're good to them they'll treat you nicely, perhaps they have an agenda of Kurdifying us, but if we're smart enough we can invade and Assyrianize our masters within, it can be done people.

*sigh*.

Yes massa'.  Don't make no trouble and we won't get whipped again.

"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline rmalik5

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HEY SENATOR LET'S VOTE A DIFFERENT WAY
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 12:57:34 PM »
Heres a different approach to the view of a vote before one is taken!

Joe Davani's side and the one his intellectualls choose!





Supports sharia law!


Supports a Islamic State!



Picture Christian women in this!


Saddams Henchmen!

OR



Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!



Ally for his and our gains!


So I guess you were right Senator the vote is a no brainer!

"A Traitor Is Everyone Who Does Not Agree With Me"

Offline shamirum

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2007, 01:02:52 PM »
rmalik5,

Please don't create a whole new thread to reply to one that has already been made.

I have merged your response into this original thread.

You can consider this your warning, but what you did is a clear violation of the terms of this site. Please review them: http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=5214.0

Thanks.

-S

Offline dlty01

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Re: HEY SENATOR LET'S VOTE A DIFFERENT WAY
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2007, 01:04:55 PM »
Heres a different approach to the view of a vote before one is taken!

Joe Davani's side and the one his intellectualls choose!





Supports sharia law!


Supports a Islamic State!



Picture Christian women in this!


Saddams Henchmen!

OR



Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!



Ally for his and our gains!


So I guess you were right Senator the vote is a no brainer!




LOL - neither.  Not Kurdish Muslims.  Not Arab Muslims.  Secular Iraqis and Secular Assyrian entities.

 :loool:
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2007, 01:17:50 PM »
No matter how many times I say this, some people will always ignore the facts and refuse to face reality.
REALITY; ASSYRIANS CAN'T GET ANY KIND OF PROVINCE OR AUTONOMY UNDER IRAQI CENTRAL GOVERNMENT!

The only way Assyrians can get autonomy is with the support of the Kurdish block. And dont expect the Kurdish block to support Nineveh plains being administarted under Baghdad. Plain and simple. This is not even a question. What the question should really be is; do you want an Assyrian province under KRG or do you want Nineveh plains to stay part of Mosul governate like the way it is right now.
I Love Assyria

Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 01:34:15 PM »
No matter how many times I say this, some people will always ignore the facts and refuse to face reality.
REALITY; ASSYRIANS CAN'T GET ANY KIND OF PROVINCE OR AUTONOMY UNDER IRAQI CENTRAL GOVERNMENT!

The only way Assyrians can get autonomy is with the support of the Kurdish block. And dont expect the Kurdish block to support Nineveh plains being administarted under Baghdad. Plain and simple. This is not even a question. What the question should really be is; do you want an Assyrian province under KRG or do you want Nineveh plains to stay part of Mosul governate like the way it is right now.


Chaldean, calm down!

It is extremely difficult to get an Assyrian area, you are right.  The Nineveh Plains Administrative Unit plan, contrary to some misconception, IS NOT an Assyrian Adminsitratvie unit.  The policy is this:  the ADM and other minority groups in the area (namely the Yezidis, Shabaks) have joined forces to create a NON-ETHNICLY TIED administrative area.  Kurds live there.  Arabs live there.  It just HAPPENS TO BE majority Assyrian.

So it isn't the question of whether the Iraqi government will support a mini "Assyria-stan".  It is, will they support a referendum to allow the people - again of many ethnicities and faiths - to vote to self-administration.  Within a part of Iraq.

I agree - no Muslim (non-secular, at least) will support a separate Assyrian Christian area.  But that IS NOT the Nineveh Plains Administrative Unit plan.  It is to create a self-administered area for the people of the Nineveh Plains.  Again, who happen to be mostly Assyrian but are also made up of Arabs, Kurds, Shabaks, Yezidis, and Turkomen.

The Iraqi Central Government that you so harshly say will never support anything like this have already approved - twice - a mostly-Assyrian security force in the Nineveh Plains to replace the KDP forces that are currently there.  The Provincial authorities of the area, Kurds mostly, blocked the effort: http://www.aina.org/releases/20060624123753.htm

So, again, it is not Christian Assyrian autonomy (regardless of what Aghajan and the KRG try to make it sound like).  It is just another area that wants to seek regional administrative autonomy - it just so happens that most are Assyrian, many mayors and officials are ADM, and ADM has strong support there - even from the Yezidis and Shabaks who live there.
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline baklawa

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Re: HEY SENATOR LET'S VOTE A DIFFERENT WAY
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 01:34:53 PM »
Heres a different approach to the view of a vote before one is taken!

Joe Davani's side and the one his intellectualls choose!





Supports sharia law!


Supports a Islamic State!



Picture Christian women in this!


Saddams Henchmen!

OR



Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!


Assyrian Christian!



Ally for his and our gains!


So I guess you were right Senator the vote is a no brainer!




Hilarious and sad -- don't know of any other nation that elevates employees of foreign entities to hero status the way we do.  
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 01:51:05 PM »
.  The Nineveh Plains Administrative Unit plan, contrary to some misconception, IS NOT an Assyrian Adminsitratvie unit.  The policy is this:  the ADM and other minority groups in the area (namely the Yezidis, Shabaks) have joined forces to create a NON-ETHNICLY TIED administrative area.  Kurds live there.  Arabs live there.  It just HAPPENS TO BE majority Assyrian.

You are right about this, it is a minority area not an Assyrian area, and by the way, note that even thou Assyrians makes the majority, it is not a big majority - it is not even 50%. In the Tel Kaif district (that includes the strong hold of Alqosh, Batnaya, TelSkuf, bakufa) Assyrians apperantly only make 25-30% of the total population. The rest is 20-15% of Yezidi, Turkmen, and Shabak each. So that tells you how diverse this area is, where all the population are very equal.

Quote
So it isn't the question of whether the Iraqi government will support a mini "Assyria-stan".  It is, will they support a referendum to allow the people - again of many ethnicities and faiths - to vote to self-administration.  Within a part of Iraq.

Why would sunnis support this? Why would Kurdis support this? Their goes 40% of the Iraqi government. So now your telling me you can convince every member of the shiite blog to give this area autonomy? By how? Converting to Shism?!

I Love Assyria

Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 02:05:43 PM »
Why would sunnis support this? Why would Kurdis support this? Their goes 40% of the Iraqi government. So now your telling me you can convince every member of the shiite blog to give this area autonomy? By how? Converting to Shism?!

I don't know.  Ask the ADM who have been working on this for years.
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline sydneydude

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 04:53:00 PM »
lol ron u got my laughing bro. hope ur doing well and all. btw i sent those pictures you wanted to danavi few months ago, not sure if he passed them on to you.

those pictures you put were selective - i prefer these pictures...

Rabi Iskhaq Iskhaq (ZOWAA) with Iraqi politicians


Rabi Younadam Kanna (ZOWAA) holding the Draft Consitution during a televised ceremony broadcast worldwide


ZOWAARally in response to Kurds blocking our right to VOTE in the last elections


Evidence: Kurds oppressing our election campaign by trying to censor ZOWAA


Our only hope is a solution tied to the central government in Baghdad...


« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 06:59:59 PM by shamirum »

Offline Senator_Danavi

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 05:27:26 PM »
The Kurdistan Region is the middle man since it is still under the authority of the Central Government of Iraq!  I do not understand why our people are unable to grasp this fact.  This is neither an ideology nor an opinion, but a basic truth.

Why should we align ourselves under a middle man with very little international legitimacy (i.e. Assyria Sub-Province under Kurdistan Region, Iraq) when we can go to the same source that the Kurdistan Region goes to....yes you guessed correctly and logically--the Iraqi Central Government (i.e Assyria Provice, Iraq)!

This is about progress, equality and a future.  The Iraqi government will be allocating funds to all the regions/provinces where the fate of such funding will be determined by those in the province.  Why should we leave the Nineveh Plains up to the majority Kurdish chieftans, when we can self-determine the fate of such investments.

We have a chance for self-determination, yet some in our community are willing to tie their stances and positions for the future of our Nation with that of emotions and blurred pictures.

Realize that Kurdistan is not a separate state, but a region within Iraq.  Why be tied to an illigitimate middleman, when we can have a direct link to an internationally recognized State Government.

Assyria Sub-Province, Kurdistan Region, Iraq

OR

Assyria Province, Iraq





Offline Tambur

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 05:40:16 PM »
What?!?! :blink: During and after the genocide perpetrated against us by the Turks AND the Kurds, many of our people were taken in and protected by Arabs, especially certain Bedouin tribes like the Tays (read Fred Aprim's book.)  Kurds are famous for being extremely disloyal, so I have no clue where you came up with that line about being nice.

BTW, Iraqi Central Government........duh!!!!

Let's not forget Simelle for the love of God, while Fred Aprim mentions Arabs protecting some of us I think he failed to mention that some Kurds did the exact same thing (Or maybe he did mention, I did not read his book), just because some of them were part of the genicide it does't mean they all were, some Kurds have protected us believe it or not.

I have some stories of some friends and relatives who's family were from the Diyarbaker and Mardin areas and they have told stories of Kurds saving Assyrian lives, also read up on the battle of Alqosh that took place in the 60's between the ppl of Alqosh and the Yezids and Kurds, who do you think came to the rescue with Toma Tomas? it was men from the Kurdish Doski tribe.

Iraqi government = Kurdish government = Shi'a Muslim government, they all cannot be trusted.

Offline Senator_Danavi

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 05:46:29 PM »
Iraqi government = Kurdish government = Shi'a Muslim government, they all cannot be trusted.

I cant agree more!  However, we need to pick one, so we might as well pick the more recognized, legitimate, and broader one.  Let us also not forget the main source of funding and legislation is with the Central Government and not some ethnocentric region.

The choice becomes much easier....

Assyria, Iraq!

God Bless!!

Offline baklawa

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2007, 05:58:50 PM »
Let's not forget Simelle for the love of God,

No, of course Simele cannot be forgotten.  But let's put things in perspective; while west Assyrians and Armenians commemorate their Martyr's Day to coincide with the genocide -- where we lost hundreds of thousands of people -- we do ours on August 7th to remember Simele.  Again, not to downplay the horrors that occured on that day, but we lost two-thirds of our population in the most brutal fashion during the genocide, in which the Kurds played a huge role. 

Given a choice between the two, and taking into consideration the divisive role the Kurds continue to play in our national affairs today, I'm going with the lesser of two evils -- the Arabs.
"January 2010, the nail in the coffin, the day Zowaa will die." Hilarious prediction posted by "chaldean."
March 2010: Zowaa wins 3 out of 5 seats in the Iraqi Parliament!

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2007, 06:06:56 PM »
Koleh enah kha ekhreh but i voted Iraqi Central Government.
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2007, 07:14:15 PM »
Assyria Sub-Province, Kurdistan Region, Iraq

OR

Assyria Province, Iraq







wow, some people are so thick headed, its unbelievable. Some of you kids kinda remind me of that Ken Joseph Jr guy. lol But you can have your little fun if you want.
I Love Assyria

Offline shamirum

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 07:22:32 PM »
chaldean,

I really need an eye-rolling smiley for some of the posts around here.

Don't be so snide, please, saying "thick-headed" and "kids," so who are you? The expert of all things? This is your warning now: tone it down and watch your words. Obviously your opinion differs, but must you be so condescending when you express your disagreement? If that's your style, it certainly doesn't belong here.

Thank you.

-S

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2007, 07:25:10 PM »

wow, some people are so thick headed, its unbelievable. Some of you kids kinda remind me of that Ken Joseph Jr guy. lol But you can have your little fun if you want.

we love you 2  :bigarmhug:
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline shamirum

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2007, 07:28:07 PM »
LOL, you're much nicer than I am...  :lol:

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 07:28:16 PM »
chaldean,

I really need an eye-rolling smiley for some of the posts around here.

Don't be so snide, please, saying "thick-headed" and "kids," so who are you? The expert of all things? This is your warning now: tone it down and watch your words. Obviously your opinion differs, but must you be so condescending when you express your disagreement? If that's your style, it certainly doesn't belong here.

Thank you.

-S


It is not an opinion, it is a fact of reality. I apologize for crashing the party, you guys can have your fun with your imagination.
I Love Assyria

Offline shamirum

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 07:48:13 PM »
It is not an opinion, it is a fact of reality. I apologize for crashing the party, you guys can have your fun with your imagination.

Wow! Well, at least you made it clear then, you know, that your views are so outstanding because they are ground in reality while those who disagree with you must simply be living in some warped version of your world (i.e., their imaginations). So, since you happen to know all the facts, why do you even bother with the party here? You should use your incredible knowledge to get some things done out there in the real world, help your fellow human realize the truth and all.

:dry:

Offline Free_Assyria

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 08:02:32 PM »
It is not an opinion, it is a fact of reality. I apologize for crashing the party, you guys can have your fun with your imagination.

For someone who has an avatar called "Assyrian revolution" you don’t seem like a good advocate for your cause  :bangin:

Noor what is it that you really want? What do you predict will happen? And why does it upset you when your own people ask for their piece of the cake (their God given right)
"The World has no glory without the Assyrians"

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 11:43:40 PM »
Shami, all I asked for was enough of childesh talk and start talking real. What is the title of this forum?  Current Affairs, Politics, and Serious Discussions. Serious discussions, not imaginary discussion, not wishful discussion. The person that opened this thread opened with a properganda lie that has the rest here thinking something totally false - that Assyrians actually have a choice between receiving autonomy under Baghdad or Kurdish authority.

I ask everyone that has voted for ''control under Baghdad authority'' - What part of Sunni arabs and Kurds make 40% of Baghdad government don't you understand?

Secondaly, the reason why I blew off on him and called this whole discussion all childesh talk is because the guy then posts a map showing parts of Dohuk province being annex to this so called Assyrian autonomy! Ok, you know what, I do apologize. I was fooled into thinking that only serious discussion was to be conducted here, but apperantly we can make up things and pretend it reflects reality and take them serious consideration as well.

Yes Shami, I do think that I know alot and I am well educated about the issue. I visited Nineveh in 2004 and I can discuss this issue based on reality then based on hope like some do here with typing "Assyria province" with big letters. How do you falsy raise peoples hope like that? This is such an insult to people intellegence.

As for Nineveh Plains, I will explain you the situation breifly. Do you notice how all media outlets and even Assyrian politicians are using the term "Nineveh Plains" and not "Atoor province"? Well their is a reason for that. First of all, Assyrians dont even make 50% of Nineveh plains. The population is evenly distributed with all the different ethnicities. The "Nineveh Plains" is compused of 3 districts - Tel Kaif, Al-Hamdaniya, and Al-Shikhan. To you give you a picture how the Assyrian population, take this into consideration; Assyrians are big in Tel Kaif. Even thou where big their, this is how the Tel Kaif district council seat is distributed based on last elections;
The 11-member City Council
4 Assyrians
3 Shabaks
3 Yezidis
1 Kurd
Source

And the third district, Al-Shikhan, is almost entirely Yezidi - about 90%.

In conclusion, I want the best for our peoplle. If I had it may way, I would want an ASSYRIAN province with an Assyrian flag being waved in every government building! But when it comes to discussion, I am a serious person that does not blab pure crap. I am sorry, but if someone is going to do that, then I am going to call them out. Annexing Dohuk areas and claiming that we have actually options between the two is pure joke.

I apologize for the strong and harsh language, but this is a serious matter and the fate of our people is within months. The Nineveh plains will have a vote to determine if they want to be part of KRG or not this April.

Khaya Atoor.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 11:48:16 PM by chaldean »
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Offline Tambur

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2007, 02:20:43 AM »
Excellent post Chaldean, bravo.

I don't want to make my relpy as an attack on anyone but I ask anyone who's coming up with this Assyrian province story, have they been to the plains lately like Chaldean have? I ask this because I have relatives who like Chaldean have been there and they've been very realistic with the issue, the reality is sad because the plains is quite mixed as Chaldean said.

Out of the plains we are only the majority in two districts, Tell Kaif and Hamdaneya, in Tell Kaif we have a dominant population there with the likes of Alqosh (Which is the only pure Assyrian village remaining without strangers), Telkeppe, Telesquf, Batnaya, Beqopa, Sharafeya, and other smaller ones, the only other village around this area that is not Assyrian that I can think of is Bozan which is Yizidi (Maybe there's more but I'm not aware of it), but even though we are the majority in this district Tellkeppe right now has a huge population of Arabs and Kurds in it (The main language is Arabic there, what does that tell you?), all the other villages in this district other then Alqosh have Yizidi, Shabak, or Kurd populations inside their villages, this is a major fact.

Next comes al-Hamdaneya, believe it or not things are even worse in this district, why? because this district is quite mixed, don't be fooled when they say Assyrians are the majority (We are), but when you have Assyrians 35-40% and the rest is a mix of Yizidis, Kurds, Arabs, Shabaks, and Turkomans this does't make us very dominant. From what I heard Bakhdida (Also known as Qaraqosh or Hamdaneya), Bartilla, Karamlesh, and Bahzani/Ba'sheeqa is where our people live in this district, and sadly most of these towns/villages are quite mixed.

The other districts around the area? forget about it, so when Chaldean says certain things I can see where he's coming from, this is a forum for serious political discussions, sure everyone has an opinion but the fact is the dispora imaginations are quite unreal.

Trust me, out of all people I would rather choose none of these filthy governments, but the reality is if we have to choose who we want to be under who do we pick? I think we should pick none because we don't live there, let's just let the ones who deserve it choose and that is the ones who live there.

Offline shamirum

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2007, 06:08:02 AM »
chaldean,

You seem to have missed my point again, but thank you for the information you provided. Once more, however, this isn't about who you happen to think is right or wrong. You can be (and obviously are) one hundred percent certain that what you say is all facts and that the other spin is pure nonsense, but there are better ways of saying so than using insulting terms. The issue I took up with you is a moderation one, not one based on the content of this thread. If you had said the same thing in a thread that was titled, "The Sky Is Really Green, Not Blue," I would have replied to you in a similar manner.

If you believe someone is mistaken with what they are presenting, then go ahead and address it and express your concern and opinion, but please note your tone and your use of words. No one is asking you to avoid being direct; go ahead and “call it out” as you see it, but don’t use expressions that will only make your audience defensive. You care so much about enlightening the supposedly misconceived around here? Then don't treat them as your inferiors and insult their integrity and intellect, that way, they might actually bother to read what you have to say instead of dismissing it as hot air coming from a know-it-all.

Other than that, I hope the rest of the participants of this thread read your most recent post and absorb that information as they assess this particular situation for our people back in Iraq. But don't expect someone to read it and take your word for everything; no single person has ALL the facts.

-S


Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2007, 10:55:34 AM »
If I may, again:

The Nineveh Plains is not an Assyrian Province.  It isn't meant for Assyrians only.  It is full of Assyrians, Yezidis, Shabaks, Turkomen, and some Arabs and Kurds.

I have heard otherwise about population sizes and ratio, but I won't argue that point with Chaldean or Tambur.  If you want to know fact from fiction, speak to Rabbi Mikhail from the Nineveh Center for Research and Development in Baghdeda.

Anyway, the Nineveh Plains Admin. Unit (NPAU) is simply meant to be a local administrative area as it is culturally and ethnically unique from most of Iraq.  The ADM has been working to move toward a referendum so those living there will vote for local administration - including NON-ASSYRIANS.  So while we are sitting here discussing Assyrians are better off living under the KRG, the Turkomen, Yezidi, Assyrian, and maybe even Arab population of the area may say different.

So again, if I, personally, as someone who lives in Chicago, had to choose between a Sunni or Shi'ite Arab or a Sunni Kurd, I would choose a Sunni Kurd.

On the same note, if I had to choose a secular Kurd or a secular Arab - I would choose a secular Arab.  Democratic or Socialist thinking secular Arabs put all other Middle East intellectuals to shame - hence Allawi's (and Qassim's) popularity amongst Assyrians in Iraq.

So again, if there was such thing as an Assyrian province, which there isn't, to even imagine such a thing first we would need to be economically and militarily viable, otherwise we are at the whim of either Kurds or Arabs.

The NPAU will have no laws that only Assyrians live there.  It is not an Assyrian province.  That comes later.  Hopefully.

But UNTIL and UNLESS Iraq breaks up (I am not as sure as Chaldean that this will happen), then Assyrians should not dare discuss joining "Kurdistan", because it makes us look like enemies of Iraq, like disloyal Iraqis, and unless we are ready to defend ourselves, we must play the game right.

Which is why the ADM has never, ever said the NPAU cannot be a part of the Kurdish region.

Which is why the ADM never, ever says how the NPAU should look, but rather leave it to the people who live there.  They only make recommendations according to the legal structure of the NP, in accordance with the Iraqi Government.  Other than this there isn't more that they can do.

Is that "serious" enough for everyone?
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline dlty01

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2007, 10:56:30 AM »
And PS - Shami, I don't know about Vivian, But I'D kinda like to marry you.

 :shades:
"Why am I an Assyrian?  Because my parents were.  Additionally, I am an Assyrian because I feel it a sacred destiny to be one.  One is an Assyrian not only because of the accident of birth.  The will to be an Assyrian involves more than being the child of Assyrian parents."

 - David Barsum Perley

Offline Senator_Danavi

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2007, 04:48:43 PM »
Dear "Realists,"

The point of this thread was to discuss the future of the Nineveh Plains.  There is no question regarding the diversity of the demographics within the Nineveh Plains however the focus and our concentration is not upon the "name" of this administrative unit/province, but its self-determination.  I along with a few other ACSSM directors have discussed the demographics, statistics, and situation of the Nineveh Plains in much detail especially when meeting with Rabi Mikhaeel (Vice President of the Nineveh Center, Al Hamdania (Bakhdeda) ) in Chicago a few weeks ago.

I may call it Assyria, others may call it the Nineveh Plains.  Let us not get hung up on the name issue once again.  You all know very well my views and stances upon names and other fruitless titles.  But let us not forget what Nineveh is to Assyria and vice versa.  They are one in the same and I only was simplifying the prospects in laymen terms. 

Let us not waste time and meaninglessly fight my aspirations and dreams due to a few degrees of separation from the realities on hand.  That is why we are a movement and simply not bystanders.  Since we are discussing the future and the possible self-determination of the ethnic minorities within the Nineveh Plains (the majority being Assyrian Chaldean Syriac), it is important to note that the Assyrian Democratic Movement has excellent relations as witnessed through joint projects with the Yezidis and Shabaks.  There is no doubt, as testified by the reality on-the-ground, that the Yezidis, Shabaks and the Assyrian Chaldean Syriacs can work efficiently and productively together for the future of the Nineveh Plains without the need for the interference of Kurdish usurpers.

Thus the primary question remains, although quite distorted now by the recent exchanges, is the Nineveh Plains (Assyria) better suited to be under the Kurdistan Region or under the Iraqi Central Government?

This question will ultimately be debated and decided between the KDP (and its handful of puppets), ADM, and the Nineveh Plains residents.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 04:50:21 PM by Senator_Danavi »

Offline chaldean

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Re: Assyria Province under Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Central Government?
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2007, 06:28:02 PM »
Thus the primary question remains, although quite distorted now by the recent exchanges, is the Nineveh Plains (Assyria) better suited to be under the Kurdistan Region or under the Iraqi Central Government?

And you still haven't answered the question how does the Nineveh plains actuallly has a choice to choose between the two. I am going to make is clear and cut; how can Nineveh Plains achieve autonomy under Iraqi Central Government? Who in the 275 parliement will vote in favor for this?

Thus, the primary question should really be, do you want Nineveh plains to achieve autonomy under KRG or remain the way it is right now and be under Mosul, with no autonomy.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 06:39:59 PM by chaldean »
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