Author Topic: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?  (Read 6801 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« on: February 02, 2017, 05:09:41 PM »
as we all know from our history, Assyrians have been part of the Persian empire since the time of Cyrus/Kurush.
Serving as loyal soldiers and a major cultural and social influence on Persian society.

I can argue that the Persian empire was more or less the Assyro-Persian civilization (kinda like the Greco-Roman wording)

Given our history and given that Iran is the only country, besides Israel, that has a stable Assyrian population,
Also given that Iran is the only country that recognizes Assyrians and gives them political rights.

would an alliance with Iran be a smart one?



Offline AshurayaPlasha

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 398
  • Gender: Male
  • Iraqi Assyria
    • NPDF
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 09:27:43 PM »
From my understanding, Iran is actually anti-Assyrian, they just use the Assyrian Universal Alliance as a tool to say "See, we treat minorities good" but in actuality, they treat them very bad, by denying their language and religion. There was a recent report where the Iranian government converted a church into a mosque by force, if there is any nation in the middle east that is closest to being friendly with Assyrians, it is Iraqi gov/Iraqi patriotism (not Iraqi pan-Arabism or Sunnism/Kurdism).
https://ninevehplaindefensefund.org/support-now/ - Support the Assyrian NPU

Even after the fall of Nineveh (612BC) The Assyrians lived under their own law, they had their own autonomy under the different names such as Athura, Adiabene and Asuristan. It lasted till the 7th century AD.

Sennacherib II(2), was an Assyrian Governor or 'king' of northern Asuristan in 372 AD.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 09:56:12 PM »
From my understanding, Iran is actually anti-Assyrian, they just use the Assyrian Universal Alliance as a tool to say "See, we treat minorities good" but in actuality, they treat them very bad, by denying their language and religion. There was a recent report where the Iranian government converted a church into a mosque by force, if there is any nation in the middle east that is closest to being friendly with Assyrians, it is Iraqi gov/Iraqi patriotism (not Iraqi pan-Arabism or Sunnism/Kurdism).

they converted a church into a mosque by force but was it an Assyrian church?

EDIT: They illegally confiscated a Chaldean Church into a mosque.

Assyrian Voice Forum

Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 09:56:12 PM »

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 12:48:29 AM »
From my understanding, Iran is actually anti-Assyrian, they just use the Assyrian Universal Alliance as a tool to say "See, we treat minorities good" but in actuality, they treat them very bad, by denying their language and religion.
Yes. They probably do that in spite of Turks (since we're not recognized by them).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 02:46:00 AM »
Yes. They probably do that in spite of Turks (since we're not recognized by them).

yes, on the good side, Iran has formally recognized Assyrians within the "constitution" of Iran as an ethnic minority.

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 07:00:39 PM »
they converted a church into a mosque by force but was it an Assyrian church?

EDIT: They illegally confiscated a Chaldean Church into a mosque.

Doesn't matter. If that's how they treat minorities which includes us, and their constitution approves it they're hopeless if not enemies. The "they're not quite as bad as certain others so they must not be bad" is for the gullible and weak(not you).

It kind of reminds me of Turkey's issues too. They'll treat you better the more you let go of your roots. You can even maintain your non-islamic religion, but you must assimilate.

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 07:07:30 PM »
Doesn't matter. If that's how they treat minorities which includes us, and their constitution approves it they're hopeless if not enemies. The "they're not quite as bad as certain others so they must not be bad" is for the gullible and weak(not you).

So in other words, be enemies with everyone in the middle east. If not Israel, if not the Arab states then not Iran aswell? Even your political opinions are cringe worthy. Pulling 'enemy' on everyone won't get us anywhere we will be an isolated-hated nation like Israel because we declare enemies on everyone, no nation is perfect (Even it's history) but we have to choose strategic allies in the middle east even if it means being allies with Iran (Look at past relations with Armenia-Iran).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:08:45 PM by Assyrian Nationalist »

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 07:16:35 PM »
So in other words, be enemies with everyone in the middle east. If not Israel, if not the Arab states then not Iran aswell? Even your political opinions are cringe worthy. Pulling 'enemy' on everyone won't get us anywhere we will be an isolated-hated nation like Israel because we declare enemies on everyone, no nation is perfect (Even it's history) but we have to choose strategic allies in the middle east even if it means being allies with Iran (Look at past relations with Armenia-Iran).

No in other words, consider them all enemies so you never let your guard down because that's reality. You can work with certain groups without suffering from Stockholm syndrome. We're already working with another sect of Persians called Kurds, while this is giving us some level of military force they also assasinated one of our best generals. Something like that will happen every time we get a little bit too much success for their liking so it's hit and miss. You don't know history at all. Read a book on Iranian role in the Seyfo if you want to bring up history.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 08:15:21 PM »
Doesn't matter. If that's how they treat minorities which includes us, and their constitution approves it they're hopeless if not enemies. The "they're not quite as bad as certain others so they must not be bad" is for the gullible and weak(not you).

It kind of reminds me of Turkey's issues too. They'll treat you better the more you let go of your roots. You can even maintain your non-islamic religion, but you must assimilate.

you misunderstand...

"The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, ratified in 1979, recognizes Assyrians as a religious minority and ethnic minority and reserves for them one seat in the Islamic Consultative Assembly, the Iranian parliament."
(Hooglund (2008), pp. 128–129)

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 09:00:13 PM »
No in other words, consider them all enemies so you never let your guard down because that's reality. You can work with certain groups without suffering from Stockholm syndrome. We're already working with another sect of Persians called Kurds, while this is giving us some level of military force they also assasinated one of our best generals. Something like that will happen every time we get a little bit too much success for their liking so it's hit and miss. You don't know history at all. Read a book on Iranian role in the Seyfo if you want to bring up history.


From the understanding of the Seyfo the Ottomans went into Persian lands and killed Assyrian villagers.

Quote
The protection of Christians by local Persian civilians is also confirmed in the 1915 British


Quote
In Salmas, about 750 Armenian and Assyrian refugees were protected by Iranian civilians in the village


Source: http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/brycereport_armenia.htm

Quote
In 1918, about half of the Assyrians of Persia died of Turkish and Kurdish massacres


Source: Baumer, Church of the East, at 263. The Church of the East: An Illustrated History of Assyrian Christianity, Christoph Baumer, I.B. Tauris, 2006.


Only two parts of world war I where their was some type of 'hostility' towards Assyrians from Persians in World war 1.

The first was that Persians were irritated by Assyrians because they thought the Russian empire were using them for strategy and the second was when "Mar Shimmun understood the difficult situation of the Assyrians. His messages in 1918 were persuading Agha Putrus not to fight against Persians, but to make peace with them. Nonetheless, the Assyrians did not put down their weapons, as the Patriarch advised; they chose to attack."

Mar Shimmun, the guy you have as a profile picture and yet you don't know history, lol. Play enemies with everyone as I said you clearly don't know.

and yes, you can't be allies with Kurds but they aren't fully hostile to us. Kurds themselves are fighting with eachother such as PKK-Barzani-PYD (Kurdish groups in Iran).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 09:01:51 PM by Assyrian Nationalist »

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 10:56:08 PM »
yes, on the good side, Iran has formally recognized Assyrians within the "constitution" of Iran as an ethnic minority.
I know. I meant that they only "formally recognize" us because Turks are not doing so. They did it in spite of the Turks. The Iranians want to be appear angelic in front of them and be like "hey, look at how nice we are compared to that moderate Islamic country". I'm just reading between the lines. Let's not be too naive.

With that being said, it won't kill if we become allies with Iran or even Turkey. Just as long we're not enemies of Israel (considering how much aid they get), we'll do fine. Heck, I would even begrudgingly condone an alliance with the most savage and despicable country in the world (like Saudi Arabia), if it will do us good. We should be really strategic here. That's how you win in this world.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2017, 09:39:28 AM »
From the understanding of the Seyfo the Ottomans went into Persian lands and killed Assyrian villagers.

Source: http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/brycereport_armenia.htm

Source: Baumer, Church of the East, at 263. The Church of the East: An Illustrated History of Assyrian Christianity, Christoph Baumer, I.B. Tauris, 2006.


Only two parts of world war I where their was some type of 'hostility' towards Assyrians from Persians in World war 1.

The first was that Persians were irritated by Assyrians because they thought the Russian empire were using them for strategy and the second was when "Mar Shimmun understood the difficult situation of the Assyrians. His messages in 1918 were persuading Agha Putrus not to fight against Persians, but to make peace with them. Nonetheless, the Assyrians did not put down their weapons, as the Patriarch advised; they chose to attack."

Mar Shimmun, the guy you have as a profile picture and yet you don't know history, lol. Play enemies with everyone as I said you clearly don't know.

and yes, you can't be allies with Kurds but they aren't fully hostile to us. Kurds themselves are fighting with eachother such as PKK-Barzani-PYD (Kurdish groups in Iran).


You're gonna bring up Mar Shimun Benyamin to defend the Iranians? Hilarious considering they worked together with the Kurds so conspire the assasination on him lead by Simkoo's militia. Everybody knows that but of course you wouldn't as I already said, you're clueless on history. The Persians conspired together with the Kurds to set up the assasination in Salmas to take out the Assyrian leadership.
The Flickering Light of Asia:
http://www.aina.org/books/fla/fla.htm
Quote
It soon became apparent that the Tabriz government was not only without knowledge as to the secret activities of the Moslems in Urmia, but it had also a hand in the agitation that led to the Mohammedan uprising against the Christians. The deposed Shah, Mohammed Ali, before his succession to the throne and his subsequent dethronement and exile, as the crown prince, and future King of Persia, had for a bribe of three thousand Toomans ($2,700) given his consent to the Kurdish tribes of Kurdistan to attack his own Christian subjects of Targavar, plunder their homes, and carry away their flocks and cattle, and which, of course, they did. The existing crown prince, now residing in Tabriz, was none other than the brother of the deposed monarch, a fanatical Moslem, and a hater of the Christians. The plan for the assassination of Agha Petros, which was to be followed by a wholesale massacre of the Assyrians in Urmia, having failed so disastrously to the Moslems, superior authorities now concocted the diabolical scheme and formed a more treacherous conspiracy to kill the Patriarch and the Commander-in-Chief of the Assyrian forces; and then to mobilize larger forces in order to carry out the previous program for the extermination of the Christians. They were clever enough to play upon the virtues of their victim. They remembered how earnestly he had pleaded with them, and how sincerely he had manifested his strong desire for peace and friendly relations, with both the Persian authorities, and with the Moslem subjects of Persia


Quote
In Salmas at this time resided a notorious brigand by the name of Simkoo. He was undoubtedly the most dreaded, by the Persian authorities, of all the Kurdish chieftains of the Eastern Kurdistan, and was regarded as the strongest of them all. Through the game of diplomacy he had managed to be alternately now on the Persian side and then again on the Turkish side. At the time of the Russian occupation of the State of Azarbaijan, the notorious brigand had surprised his co-religionists, and fought on the side of the Allies as well. He was once captured by the Russian soldiers and taken to Tiflis as a prisoner. But before the collapse of Russia he had succeeded in gaining the favor of the Russian military authorities to secure his freedom, and to bring back with him a considerable supply of arms and ammunition, on the promise that he world use his available force against the Turks. After the Russians had completely withdrawn from Persia, Simkoo, so far as Persia was concerned, became supreme, and since the days of Shah Abbass, no monarch had exercised as great an authority over the boundary lands of the northwestern Persia. The Persian government, of which he was a subject, he had defied, as he could always defy; and so far as the Turks were concerned, he knew he could play the game again by telling them that he was forced into the service of Russia against his will. Simkoo had had one fear only, and that had always risen from the Assyrian marksmen of Targavar, even though they were inferior to his men in numbers. But now that the Assyrian warriors of the hills were also present in Persia, he had become a peaceful subject, and had apparently chosen to live out and far from his old nest of lawlessness in the mountains of Bradoost and Somaie. It was this man that the Persian authorities used as a tool in their hands for the assassination of Mar Shimon. And after he had committed the dastardly deed, he was told, if the Turks failed to make their appearance in Persia by that time, he could escape into the interior of the country and remain there unmolested.

Mar Shimon and his bodyguard of two hundred horsemen arrived in Salmas during the last week of February, 1918. He was welcomed by his own people, and by the Armenians as well. Even the Moslems of Salmas vied with the Christians in the bestowal of honors upon him. Shortly after his arrival he was visited by two emmisaries of the Persian authorities of Tabriz. They came to the Patriarch with that polished hyprocrisy which grows exclusively in the soil of Islam. They reminded him of the letter he had written several months before to the Tabriz authorities, expressing his good will toward the Persian government, and requesting of the latter that he and his people be allowed to reside in Persia as their temporary guests. They officially informed the Patriarch of the "deep appreciation" that was felt by the Persian authorities of the contents of his Beatitude's letter, and that how those authorities had been "glad to serve a humanitarian cause," by gladly opening the gates of their country, to give the Assyrian Christians a place of refuge. But, the emissaries added, inasmuch as the Persian authorities desired to see those boundary lands in perfect peace and tranquility, and inasmuch as they would no longer countenance any local Moslem agitations and uprisings against the Christians, they thought that it would be for the interest of peace, if the only source of trouble that might disturb the tranquility of the country, was eliminated. And that, inasmuch as the Kurdish chieftan had indicated to the Persian authorities, a strong desire to come to an understanding with the Assyrians, it would absolutely insure the desired end, if his Beatitude could likewise assure Simkoo and his followers of his friendly attitude toward the latter as well.


As far as the copy and paste job you made out of context, that was in self defense against the many massacres committed by the persians in Khoi, Urmia, Hamadan, Tabriz etc. The patriach wanted to avoid as much conflict as possible in order to make peace with the persian authorities. Even though he led many battles himself, he was also too trusting of the muslims which eventually caused his demise. The genocide against Assyrians and other christian minorities was ongoing in Iran as well, and here you are blaming Assyrians militias for taking matters into their own hands instead of the muslims.

Of course there were good Iranians who helped Assyrians back then, there were even Turks and Kurds who did the same during the seyfo. It doesn't change what others of their kind did. It's the same story today. There are some good muslims we can work with but we'll always have to look out for their bad apples, that's my point in this thread. For the record, I would prefer Assyrians to be backed by Syria-Russia-Iran(untill the inevitable back-stab).

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2017, 09:49:48 AM »
you misunderstand...

"The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, ratified in 1979, recognizes Assyrians as a religious minority and ethnic minority and reserves for them one seat in the Islamic Consultative Assembly, the Iranian parliament."
(Hooglund (2008), pp. 128–129)

A constitution is only as strong as it's implementation in real life though. The church conversion to a mosque in Tehran is simply too damning as there's not much of a bigger slap in the face of Assyrians.
Quote
The regime has openly admitted to usurping the formerly Christian parish grounds of Chaldean Catholic Church for the purpose of converting them into a center for Islamic prayers.

“The brazen admission displays first and foremost the discriminatory and sectarian policies of the regime vis-a-vis Iran’s religious minorities,” Ali Safavi of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) said. “At the same time, it speaks to the failure of Western policy to accommodate the regime in the futile hope that it will promote moderation and tolerance on the domestic front.”

That's not even a group of thugs doing this, it's the Iranian goverment itself and they're open about it.

What does their constitution say about an issue like this? Not that it seems to matter.

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 12:40:38 AM »
You're gonna bring up Mar Shimun Benyamin to defend the Iranians? Hilarious considering they worked together with the Kurds so conspire the assasination on him lead by Simkoo's militia. Everybody knows that but of course you wouldn't as I already said, you're clueless on history. The Persians conspired together with the Kurds to set up the assasination in Salmas to take out the Assyrian leadership.
The Flickering Light of Asia:
http://www.aina.org/books/fla/fla.htm
As far as the copy and paste job you made out of context, that was in self defense against the many massacres committed by the persians in Khoi, Urmia, Hamadan, Tabriz etc. The patriach wanted to avoid as much conflict as possible in order to make peace with the persian authorities. Even though he led many battles himself, he was also too trusting of the muslims which eventually caused his demise. The genocide against Assyrians and other christian minorities was ongoing in Iran as well, and here you are blaming Assyrians militias for taking matters into their own hands instead of the muslims.

Of course there were good Iranians who helped Assyrians back then, there were even Turks and Kurds who did the same during the seyfo. It doesn't change what others of their kind did. It's the same story today. There are some good muslims we can work with but we'll always have to look out for their bad apples, that's my point in this thread. For the record, I would prefer Assyrians to be backed by Syria-Russia-Iran(untill the inevitable back-stab).


I did copy and paste that's why I quoted.

You can deny what Mar Shimun Benyamin said, as you are usually ignorant with many things. You just located where massacres were commited but majority of sources say Turks who went across into Persian lands, it's not about being allies with Russia.. and yes I agree they are 'some good Muslims' but doesn't mean you can trust them.

I am not blaming Assyrian Miltias for 'taking it into their own hands' really funny coming from someone who is extremely religious where many priests condemned wars against Muslims and Zorostrians for man years causing the Assyrians to be seen as an 'easy target' just like how sub-human Sunni Arabs describe Assyrians in Dora, Baghdad.

Offline KingA

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 07:14:16 PM »
mrzurnaci, I appreciate your ideas about making new alliens for our nation. Many Assyrian on this form dont understand that we really need a wise game with  our "good neighbours" in the region. We are a small minority, probably the smallest in Middle East just cant be enemy with Persians, Turks and Kurds together, that does not make any sence and are not logical.
We are good at thinking about what happend in the hisotry but not thinking about a strategy for the future. keep going with your Controversial ideas  :thumbup:

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 02:00:03 AM »
Waiting for Joe to reply because he's a liar and a deceiver like a Muslim
Quote
here you are blaming Assyrians militias for taking matters into their own hands instead of the muslims.

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2017, 02:31:26 PM »
Waiting for Joe to reply because he's a liar and a deceiver like a Muslim

Is this really coming from a so called "Assyrian Nationalist" who is defending Iranian muslims over your own people(not that you truly are) even though they massacred us and they would throw you off a rooftop? And I try not to give you too much attention but now you tried to distort history. Needless to say you failed as usual, with your biggest obstacle being your abhorrent english grammar and intellect-level.

Quote
You can deny what Mar Shimun Benyamin said

First off, you did not even provide a source for that quote. It shows no further context which is crucial and that is why I exposed your copy and paste jobs. You deliberately tried to make it look like Assyrians were out attacking poor Persians while the patriach was telling them not to, that is how idiotic you've been in this thread.

While I've shown my sources that show Persians massacred Assyrians in many major cities in Iran and the reasoning was the same as the one that the Kurds and Turks used. Which is why Assyrian militias lead by Agha Petros were in many armed conflicts to try to stop the genocide while the patriach was trying to make peace with the Ottoman and Persian goverments, the latter being the same who arranged his assasination and of 100 other bodyguards. That is why there might have been some disagreements between Mar Shimon and Petros, but it has nothing to do with whatever lies you tried to claim.

Quote
but majority of sources say Turks who went across into Persian lands

Both Turks AND Persians were doing the killing in Persian lands. This has been proven already, your love for muslim persians isn't enough to refute this.

Quote
and yes I agree they are 'some good Muslims' but doesn't mean you can trust them

"There are" not "they are". And thanks for repeating my point.

Quote
I am not blaming Assyrian Miltias for 'taking it into their own hands' really funny coming from someone who is extremely religious where many priests condemned wars against Muslims and Zorostrians for man years causing the Assyrians to be seen as an 'easy target' just like how sub-human Sunni Arabs describe Assyrians in Dora, Baghdad

This is what I mean, what are you even trying to say here?  :lol: You are all over the place and extremely incoherent. Re-read that part again, do you even understand what you're saying yourself? I'm seriously laughing at the random incoherence.

This was the big response that I was supposed to answer all this time? lol you're still under the juvenile impression that whoever has the last reply in a thread must always be right which is adorable yet sad.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2017, 08:53:29 PM »
Sure, join the Aryans and f*ck the Semitic race altogether with the Jews. The Jews as Semites are the number 1 enemies of the Aryans (Persian + Kurds).

Jews are trying everything that Kurds and Persians start an Aryan-race brother war between each other. It will NEVER happen, Aryan Kurds and Aryan Persians will NEVER going to fight each other for the disgusting Semitic Jews & Sunni Arabs and disgusting Mongoloid Sunni Turks.

Semitic disgusting Jews are trying to destroy the Aryan (Iranid) race. We (the real Kurds)  told Americans, first Turks and Turkey must go down, then the Persian regime will become more 'democratic'.


Aryan Kurds are fighting their own war and for Kurdish Aryan race only and for nobody else, for own Kurdish Aryan race interests. The era that Kurds are fighting for others is over.


Jews are playing with fire. All the evil in West Asia are the Turks and the Semites.


Today, the closest allies of my people (the Ezdi Kurds) are the Persians. Together with the Persians, the Ezdi Kurds are fight against the Sunni Islam. After the Shengal genocide of 2/8/2014 the Persians helped the Ezdi Kurds the most.


At the end of the day, the Semites (Jews included) & Mongoloid Turks will be defeated. So, join the Aryans (Kurds & Persians) before it is to late, because the Aryans will be victorious.


Without Great Kurdistan there will NEVER be an Assyrian state. Arabs, Jews and Turks will NEVER give the Assyrians anything. For the Sunni Muslims Assyrians don't exist. The key to the Assyrian state is Great Kurdistan, period! Aryans will give Assyrians their regions back.

( ͜。 ͡ʖ ͜。)

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2017, 09:08:48 PM »
( ͜。 ͡ʖ ͜。)
That's just Alan's alter ego. He was already pissed in the other thread, so he decided to let his anger out in his alternate account. For a "Ezedi" he sure is very protective and defensive when it comes to Islamic Kurds. So I doubt that he's a Yezedi.

Anyway, the Jews are far superior to the Kurds and Persians. Modern history kinda shows that. Look at the success of Jews and look at Kurds. Jealousy and denial is very strong in this one.  :mrgreen:

And Lol, the idea that "Aryan" and "Semite" are races. Never knew that language families show up in your blood. Little did this guy know that Nazis would see Kurds, Assyrians, Arabs and Persians as one "dark" Middle Eastern race. Heck, if Kurds and Persians were in Germany in 1940s, Hitler would've killed them for not possessing Aryan features. :lol:

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 10:22:15 PM »
Without Great Kurdistan there will NEVER be an Assyrian state. Arabs, Jews and Turks will NEVER give the Assyrians anything. For the Sunni Muslims Assyrians don't exist. The key to the Assyrian state is Great Kurdistan, period! Aryans will give Assyrians their regions back.

No they won't. Don't push your propaganda and falsehoods here.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2017, 12:50:21 AM »
Is this really coming from a so called "Assyrian Nationalist" who is defending Iranian muslims over your own people(not that you truly are) even though they massacred us and they would throw you off a rooftop? And I try not to give you too much attention but now you tried to distort history. Needless to say you failed as usual, with your biggest obstacle being your abhorrent english grammar and intellect-level.

First off, you did not even provide a source for that quote. It shows no further context which is crucial and that is why I exposed your copy and paste jobs. You deliberately tried to make it look like Assyrians were out attacking poor Persians while the patriach was telling them not to, that is how idiotic you've been in this thread.

While I've shown my sources that show Persians massacred Assyrians in many major cities in Iran and the reasoning was the same as the one that the Kurds and Turks used. Which is why Assyrian militias lead by Agha Petros were in many armed conflicts to try to stop the genocide while the patriach was trying to make peace with the Ottoman and Persian goverments, the latter being the same who arranged his assasination and of 100 other bodyguards. That is why there might have been some disagreements between Mar Shimon and Petros, but it has nothing to do with whatever lies you tried to claim.

Both Turks AND Persians were doing the killing in Persian lands. This has been proven already, your love for muslim persians isn't enough to refute this.

"There are" not "they are". And thanks for repeating my point.

This is what I mean, what are you even trying to say here?  :lol: You are all over the place and extremely incoherent. Re-read that part again, do you even understand what you're saying yourself? I'm seriously laughing at the random incoherence.

This was the big response that I was supposed to answer all this time? lol you're still under the juvenile impression that whoever has the last reply in a thread must always be right which is adorable yet sad.

I was not defending Iranian Muslims, I was just looking at the facts and you did not give any facts on Iranian Muslims massacring Assyrians during the seyfo, just because I don't agree with what evidence you have given me doesn't mean you call me an "Iranian Muslim lover". So sad with your insecurities of being Aramean from Mardin, I was waiting for your reply because you accused me of being an Iranian Muslim lover which is yet again another false label you like to give to people who don't agree with you because of the lack of evidence. That's the mentality of a Muslim right their, you act like one and have the same beliefs as one. Also I did not, you are putting words into my mouth that I did not say, now that Ashoor banned you for your homophobia now you want to move on to the next agenda that I'm Anti-Assyrian and like Muslims, you're such a sore loser.

Assyrian Patriarch did defend on the case of "keeping the peace" by not refuting against the Ottomans, that's the fu.ck up.

Offline Joe25

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 610
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 07:21:08 AM »
Still no source.

I was not defending Iranian Muslims, I was just looking at the facts


You denied that persians were also in on the seyfo despite the evidence, then claimed the Assyrians who were defending themselves against the massacres all over north Iran were in the wrong for not dropping weapons(which would have meant certain death). Yes you were defending Iranian muslims which is hilarious considering that they would throw you off of a rooftop in a second.

I'll post another source:
Quote
a convoy of 253,000 Assyrians fled from the city of Urmia, marching on foot in the summer of 1918, covering a distance of 900 kilometers towards the Iranian mountains and plains heading to Hamadan in the south where the British were settled. During that journey 85,000 Assyrian women and children were killed by Turkish, Kurdish and Iranian attacks while another 15,000 were killed as their convoy headed to the north, towards Russia and Georgia7

Shklovski, Victor, "A sentimental Journey, memories of 1917-1922" -- Ed. 1924, Dalkey Archive Press, p: 109
http://www.aina.org/releases/20111010102607.htm

Quote
Assyrian Patriarch did defend on the case of "keeping the peace" by not refuting against the Ottomans, that's the fu.ck up.


Some more brilliant grammar on display here. Again you are barely comprehensible. Not refuting the Ottomans? Defend ON the case of peace keeping? What? This is getting sad.

But really, did you think that nobody would notice what you tried to do earlier? You cut out a quote from Shimon out of context, and then to keep me from seeing the full context of the quote you did not post a link to the source. Because you know your propaganda attempt in this thread would get picked apart even further so you want to save some face.

Quote
and you did not give any facts on Iranian Muslims massacring Assyrians during the seyfo, just because I don't agree with what evidence you have given me doesn't mean you call me an "Iranian Muslim lover".


Basicely "if you prove me wrong I will still not accept it". Got it. Next time you try to distort history on here again, expect me to put you and your nonsense in your place again.

Btw, I love how in this display of idiocy on your part, your friend the Ezidi kurd shows up showing the same level of intellect by hating semites while asking another semitic group of people to "join" his mental asylum. Is it a coincidence that the two posters with the lowest intelligence level here would find eachother like this? Lol I think not. Maybe combined you can reach the threshold for lower end of the average IQ.

Offline alan1

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 02:23:49 PM »
Ezidi, you are an absolute nut case.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 05:52:45 PM »
Ezidi, you are an absolute nut case.

out of 30 million Kurds, why are you surprised? There's always that ONE person... Have you decided to give up Islam yet?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 05:53:54 PM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 12:58:49 AM »
Still no source.

You denied that persians were also in on the seyfo despite the evidence, then claimed the Assyrians who were defending themselves against the massacres all over north Iran were in the wrong for not dropping weapons(which would have meant certain death). Yes you were defending Iranian muslims which is hilarious considering that they would throw you off of a rooftop in a second.

I'll post another source:Shklovski, Victor, "A sentimental Journey, memories of 1917-1922" -- Ed. 1924, Dalkey Archive Press, p: 109
http://www.aina.org/releases/20111010102607.htm

Some more brilliant grammar on display here. Again you are barely comprehensible. Not refuting the Ottomans? Defend ON the case of peace keeping? What? This is getting sad.

But really, did you think that nobody would notice what you tried to do earlier? You cut out a quote from Shimon out of context, and then to keep me from seeing the full context of the quote you did not post a link to the source. Because you know your propaganda attempt in this thread would get picked apart even further so you want to save some face.

Basicely "if you prove me wrong I will still not accept it". Got it. Next time you try to distort history on here again, expect me to put you and your nonsense in your place again.

Btw, I love how in this display of idiocy on your part, your friend the Ezidi kurd shows up showing the same level of intellect by hating semites while asking another semitic group of people to "join" his mental asylum. Is it a coincidence that the two posters with the lowest intelligence level here would find eachother like this? Lol I think not. Maybe combined you can reach the threshold for lower end of the average IQ.


You're just insulting and I gave you the evidence from the start, just go ahead and keep insulting me as this is the only case you have against me. Real cute habbibii.

Offline KingA

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 10:56:34 AM »
Hey f*cking Sunni Muslim genocidal Daesh terrorist,

The difference is that I’m a real Kurd and I do care about the real Kurds (Aryans) from all parts of Kurdistan. I LOVE all parts of Kurdistan.
You are a mongrel. You said by yourself that you are mixed and that you have Semitic roots. That’s why you are a retard and a traitor. You don’t care about the real Kurds from Bakur, Rojhelat and Rojava. In Kurdistan we don’t traitors like you. Your nation is Sunni Islam, and you don’t belong to a Kurdish nation.

You have semitic roots, that is why you are a retard and a traitor?
 Do you really believe that there is a connection between semitic roots people and retard, traitor? if yes it says a lot about you lol

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2017, 01:54:51 AM »
Semitic Jews are overrated. They are not as smart as they pretend to be. Jews are nothing but Semitic monkeys. Jealous of Jews, don't make me laugh. I would rather be reborn as a pig than as a Semitic Jew.

Why should I be jealous of Semitic nigg@s?
Technically, you still belong to the same race of Jews, Arabs, Armenians and other Middle Easterners from or around Mesopotamia and eastern Turkey. Didn't you forget that you're from the Middle East? You're only ethnically and linguistically Aryan or Indo-Iranian. But your racial makeup is almost homogeneous to theirs. Didn't you display your DNA test result here? You were mostly Caucasian, reasonably Middle Eastern and a little bit of South Asian. Almost like a Jew and an Assyrian, except that we won't have South Asian (but rather Italy/Greece and perhaps North Africa). It's a continuum - Kurds and Persians will have traces of south Asian and Central Asian, whilst those to the far west would have small amounts of Southern Europe and even North Africa.

Again, why classify races by language families? So the Caucasus people are all racially distinct because they have three language families there (northwest and northeast Caucasian languages, and Kartvellian)? And not all Turks are Mongoloids. Do you realize that Anatolia is in Asia/southern Europe and not in eastern Asia? Sure, some have mixed with Mongoloids, but there are many Turks with native Anatolian ancestry. Most even look Mediterranean/Middle Eastern. They speak Turkic, but they look Middle Eastern, Mediterranean and even Slavic.

I compared you to Nazis and Hitler because you use "Semitic" as if it's an insult. They're the ones who started it that way. It's just pathetic that you must mimic it. Nazi Germany hated Jews because they were Middle Eastern and had dark features. Like you and I. So Hitler superficially went with "Semitic" to describe such features, because they spoke a Semitic language and were the only Semites there. If Kurds or Persians were in Germany instead, and the Nazis had a problem with them, they would've also "insulted" them by their ethnic name (i.e. "Iranian/Iranic Asian Lizard"), I assure you.

Like "Caucasian", "Semitic" is another term erroneously used to mean a "race". "Caucasian" is broadly used for every European, when most Europeans don't have ties to the Caucasus, and, ironically, parts of the Caucasus is in Asia, and many true Caucasians don't even have blue eyes and blonde hair.

P.S. Be proud of your Aryan ethnicity. But don't be so bold by calling it a race when it isn't. It's as silly as those ultra nationalistic Jews who go like "proud of my Jewish race". Even the most patriotic Assyrians don't go like "I'm of the Assyrian race". Btw, you would laugh if you see Nigerians calling their ethnicity a separate race than their neighbours, no? Lol
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:01:37 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline AshurayaPlasha

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 398
  • Gender: Male
  • Iraqi Assyria
    • NPDF
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 08:37:24 AM »
Just out of curiosity, how do you know that the "Semitic race" came from the deserts? I assume you mean the deserts of Arabia.
https://ninevehplaindefensefund.org/support-now/ - Support the Assyrian NPU

Even after the fall of Nineveh (612BC) The Assyrians lived under their own law, they had their own autonomy under the different names such as Athura, Adiabene and Asuristan. It lasted till the 7th century AD.

Sennacherib II(2), was an Assyrian Governor or 'king' of northern Asuristan in 372 AD.

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Gender: Male
  • hurr durr
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
No, technically speaking Kurds belong to a distinctive Aryan race. Kurds belong to an Irano-Afghan race. Middle East is very diverse.

Kurds are mostly a mixture between the Neolithic Eastern Anatolians (Northern Mesopotamians) and Neolitic Iranian Plateau people. Aryans are more related to the ancient people of the Iranian Plateau than all other 'Middle Easterns'. What makes Aryan Kurds Aryan is their huge connection to the ancient Neolithic Iranian Plateau (Zagros) farmers.


Kurds are native to their mountainious homeland. Kurdish race was born in the Zagros Mountains, while Semitic race was born in the desert. Semites and Aryans are very different species...

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2017, 07:50:45 PM »
If there's one thing we share in common, it's our disdain for Barzani.

I remember reading that Yazidis were ethnic Kurds? Either way, the Yazidis are good people - not conquest driven, no hate in their heart.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2017, 08:54:57 PM »
No, technically speaking Kurds belong to a distinctive Aryan race. Kurds belong to an Irano-Afghan race. Middle East is very diverse.
Yes, but Aryan is not a race. It's a cultural and linguistic classification. Oh, I thought the Aryan culture was based in North India?

Quote
Kurds are mostly a mixture between the Neolithic Eastern Anatolians (Northern Mesopotamians) and Neolitic Iranian Plateau people. Aryans are more related to the ancient people of the Iranian Plateau than all other 'Middle Easterns'. What makes Aryan Kurds Aryan is their huge connection to the ancient Neolithic Iranian Plateau (Zagros) farmers.
So there you go, Kurds are from the Iranian plateau. That's what I've been telling Kurds who think they're indigenous to Northern Iraq. So I actually agree with you here.

Quote
Kurds are native to their mountainious homeland. Kurdish race was born in the Zagros Mountains, while Semitic race was born in the desert. Semites and Aryans are very different species...
Why are you blatantly ignoring your DNA test result? You were rather homogeneous to an Assyrian, except that you had South Asian. Can you explain that?

Not sure why you're emphasizing the geography. Yes, Assyrians had an empire in the hot Iraqi desert, which was rather fertile. Please don't tell me that they're somehow "inferior" because they happened to build their empire there. Mountain people are actually more nomadic, whilst those from deserts have usually been more civilized. Look at ancient Egyptians, honestly. So your logic is skewed here.

You're wrong again. Kurdish CULTURE was born in the Zagros. You guys, like us, also came out Africa the same time the other humans did. You had your way through the Levant, Iraq and eventually in your homeland where your CULTURE began. You are not a distinct race. You do not look that different, nor have huge genetic contrasts, from other people in the Middle East, excluding Gulf Arabs (who still have subsarahan African in their DNA).

Again, Semitic is a language family. It's as much as a "race" as Aryan is. It's an obsolete term to use it as a racial classification. Yes, we are more like our Lebanese, Syrian and Jewish counterparts than like Kurds and Persians. That doesn't mean you guys are all of a sudden a distinct, distant "race" from those who neighbour you.

Quote
Semitic is part of Afro-Asiatic. Semitic is related to Berber, Chadic etc. All of them are 'African' languages. It has been said that the original homeland of the Arabs is Yemen. According to the Jews their origin is not far from the Red Sea. Even in their book it is written that Moses liberated the Jews in Egypt. So Jews are also from that area.
Um, in the book (which is fictional), Jews originated in modern day Israel. Read the story of Joseph in Genesis, and see the reason why Hebrews inhabited Egypt.

Yes, they are African languages. Doesn't mean that Assyrians and Jews are an African race. Go check out the DNA test of Christian Arabs, Assyrians and Jews on the internet and tell me if you see eastern Africa and Chad in their make-up. Of course, you wouldn't. We just retained our Afro-Asiatic tongue. Only that part didn't "evolve". Racially, Saudi Arabians, Yemenis, Qataris (true Arabs), etc, have Subsaharan blood. But I thought you'd knew this. 

Quote
Semites have got most of their DNA from the Neolithic Levant farmers, nothing to do with the Iranian Plateau or the Zagros Mountains...
True, but Iranians didn't suddenly pop out from their plateau. You guys also migrated out of Africa. The difference is that our culture started in the heart of the Middle East, whilst yours began later in the Iranian plateau.

But again, you're showcasing that Assyrians and Iranians are a distinct ethnic group, AND that you guys come from Iran. This isn't news to us. We know that Kurds and Iranians are from the Iranian plateau. That's what we have been telling the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Lol.

@ Assyrian Nationalist

I know, it s**ks to be a Semite. It is almost like to be a n*gga. Life is a b*t*h, but it is time to go on, even if you are a Semite..
Lol. You have a case of an inferiority complex. You are more like your Semite neighbours than Europeans and Caucasians, considering your homeland. And it's obvious that your aversion towards "Semites" comes from Hitler, the guy who would see you and your people as "inferior" as the Jews for being dark-haired. I'm sick of repeating this to you. You are Middle Eastern. You have dark coloring like your Middle Eastern friends. Deal with it. And I don't mean this as an insult.

FYI, I've seen Assyrian Nationalist's photo. He is very light-featured with straight hair and white skin, and could pass as a Russian. You and I are probably more niggers than he is. :lol: And his meme was spot on. Regardless of your origins, you guys adhere to an Arab/Semitic religion (most of you), you have Arabic/Islamic names, and you also look Arab/Middle Eastern. And that isn't a bad thing. But you must wake up to it.

Quote
The Medes, my direct Aryan ancestors were not 'white'. Even the Sumerians had dark hair. They described themselves as 'black headed'. Sumerians belonged also to an Iranid/Aryan race.
Oh, my...a contradicting plothole in your theory! Sumerians come from a hot desert climate in the SOUTH of Iraq. I thought you guys were from the northern mountains? Really flabbergasted that you have now adopted Sumerians to be part of your "race". But it fuels your agenda, since Sumerians are the first civilized people in the world, who come from a DESERT (Lol). So that's convenient on your part. No, Sumerians have more in common with Assyrians (Akkadians mixed with them) and Iraqi Arabs, considering their location. Why the hell would Kurds come from DOWN there? We both know that isn't fact.

Quote
Proto-Indo-Europeans that invaded the Steppes from the Iranian Plateau were also like Kurds, maybe even darker. Second Stage proto-Indo-Europeans from Yamnaya that invaded Europe were also 'dark'. It has been proven. It has been proven by science.
Of course Europeans came from the Caucasus and the Middle East. They didn't pop out of oblivion in their continent. Tell us something we don't know.

Still, most Europeans nowadays are light-featured (maybe barring the southerners), and they would view you and I as racial minorities.

Quote
Btw, I don't know why Kurds are 'whiter' than Assyrians, but I think it has to be due to the Scythians/Cimmerians who were in Kurdistan but who were later defeated and assimilated by the Aryan Medes and Persians...
So it is about being white and European looking with you, huh?

No. Kurds are not whiter. Honestly, they really don't look that different from us. Now their features are a bit distinct. But you guys usually share the same skin tone as us in general.



These Kurds can easily be Assyrian, Lebanese and Turkish. So I don't see what the fuss is all about.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6256
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2017, 05:22:08 PM »
stick to the topic or im locking this...

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2017, 04:48:58 AM »
I'm not going into the discussion who is darker and who is whiter. People have eyes and can see with their own eyes. It is not a science.
All what I can say is that I see a difference between  Kurds (Aryans) and Semites in a split second. For me it is not that difficult.

You're right. It is not science. People have eyes. Except, my eyes don't see any big difference between the two "races". In fact, if anything, a few Kurds tend to look more South Asian than we do. You guys really vary, from very fair-featured (blonde hair, blue eyes) to South Asian looking, especially Persians. We are more consistent in this regards.

Arabs are darker than us, though. So you might be confusing with Iraqi Arabs and Saudis. Assyrians and Levantines are usually whiter than them. You surely don't think that Saudis and Levantines share the same features, don't you? Speaking of Levantines, they tend to be the most fairest people in the Middle East. Perhaps it's because they have European blood in them, I don't know. But then again, as you can see, not all Semites look the same.

Quote
And what the hell are you talking about? I said Kurds are a mixture between SouthEast Anatolians/Northern Mesopotamian Neolithic farmers and Neolithic Iranian Plateau farmers.

Huh? And did I refute that?

Quote
Aryan race was born when these who groups emerged and mixed with each other. In Northern India there is alot West Asian auDNA. There was a migration from the Iranian Plateau (farmers) into Northern India. We have auDNA as evidence.

So you have Iranian and a little bit of Northern Indian in you. So, you're a human from the Asian continent. Nothing surprising. 

Quote
My DNA results? My DNA results are telling me that I have almost 3 times more "Gedrosia"/"Baloch" (aka Iranian Neolithic) auDNA in me than an average Assyrian. "Gedrosia"/"Baloch" peaked in Iranian Plateau Neolithic farmers. I have even more  "Gedrosia"/"Baloch" in me than the an average of all Kurds.
My DNA is very, very different from the Assyrians. Assyrians are not even in my top 15 of the closest population in Gedmatch.

Fair enough. AncestryDNA and 23andMe can be too vague and broad when it comes to the location, but that doesn't mean they're not accurate. Let's be real, you and many Assyrians had Caucasian/Middle Eastern as the highest percentage in these DNA websites. Why? Because we're from the Middle East/Caucasus at the end of the day. Yes, I am aware that Assyrians are still ethnically distant from Kurds and Persians. What were your top 15 closest populations? Can you screencap it?

Quote
Modern Northern Semites (Syrian/Iraqi Arabs & Assyrians) = Mostly Levant Neolithic + Anatolian Neolithic + some African + some Iranian Plateau Neolithic (from the Medes/Persians, Kurds, Aryans in general)

Except the part that no African region appears in an Assyrian genetic make-up. You're right that we have Levantine traces (most Middle Easterners would). Go check out the DNA tests of many Assyrians. We are predominantly tied to Northern Iraq, the Caucasus and southern Europe. I will not refute your genetic make-up of the Iranian plateau. I believe you. But please, there's no need to lie about our historic genealogy. And I mean, our recent one, maybe 8000-10000 years ago, our African blood would have shown. Since, after all, humans came from there anyway.



Notice the Southern European admixture within us? Should I brag about that, considering how successful Greeks and Romans have been, and the continent of Europe in general? But I am not that type.

Quote
Very different races.

As different "races" as a Vietnamese and a Burmese. They may tell each other apart, but they wouldn't look that different to us foreigners. ;)

To me, a difference race is an Egyptian Arab to an extent and Pakistanis and some Afghans. They're the peripherals (one looks half African and the other is just plain Indian or Asian looking). A Kurd usually has my features. I'll laugh at myself if I consider him/her to be a different race. And you must be really meticulous to see the specifics of the two. With that being said, Iranians do tend to look different. They look like light-skinned Indians or Pakistanis. Same as Afghans, although they look Asian or Mongoloid too.

Quote
There are some similarities because modern Aryans have some Semitic from the Semites (like Chaldeans) in them, while modern Semites have some Aryan from the Mitanni/Medes/Persians etc. in them. But in general we are both very different and distinguish races with different ancient roots.

Zagros Mountains = Iranian Plateau





I know. And as you can see from the map, we are a country apart (Semites are from Iraq and Iranians from Iran). I acknowledge that we are two distinct peoples. But I just wouldn't say that we are two different races. That is where I disagree.

At the end of the day, we are Middle Easterners, irregardless of what words we use to identify ourselves (Semite, Aryan, Levantine, Arab, etc). We are ethnically and linguistically distinct from each other, but we're still part of their Middle Eastern/Mediterranean race, alongside southern Europeans, North Africans and Western Asians - To put it broadly. If Kurd or an Assyrian commit crime in Europe, they wouldn't profile him as "of Aryan/Semitic appearance", would they? They would go with "Middle Eastern or Mediterranean appearance", as they do in Australia. And if you look a bit Indian, they'd go with "South Asian" appearance. So we aren't really any special or distinct.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2017, 04:05:46 AM »
Once again Kurds ARE Aryan people. Aryans belong to an Irano-Afghan race (can be considered as a Caspian race). Irano-Afghan race is very different from a Semitic race. You should look beyond the skin color.
Afghans definitely look very different from us. They look half Asian and sometimes South Asian. So I agree here. But many Kurds do resemble Assyrian, since they've been close to us. You even admitted why, as we intermixed with them. Can't you at least let go of your stubbornness and agree with that? You must realize that now no races are pure, especially the "Semites" and Middle Eastern Aryans. They've intermixed.

Quote
Btw, Northern African and Aryans don't look the same at all. Color of the skin doesn;t make people look the same, LMAO. Aryans (Kurds & Persians) are genetically closer to India and Central Asia than to Northern Africa.
Same can be said about the Semites and Aryans. Semites don't look like Aryans at all. And Aryans don't look like the Semites at all.
You're right that North Africans might not look like Aryans. North Africans tend to look like they have a bit of subsaharan African in them. But the thing is, the more east you go, the more similar you'd look to an Iranian and Indian. And again, you said that some Kurds have mixed with Semites, hence the reason. To a Swede, a Moroccan and an Iranian would look no different btw. Lol.

Quote
And South Europeans don't look like West Asians and West Asians don't look like South Europeans. Very different races.
Dude, you have to be more specific than that! Some do. Some don't. A Yemeni or Qatari doesn't look southern European. But many Levantines do. That's why we have traces of Southern European in us. Assyrians and near Easterners have had Roman blood, due to the region's history.

Quote
People who are closest to me are Aryans (Kurds, Persians and other non-Persian Iranians), different nations of Turkey and Caucasians

https://s21.postimg.org/h0dil67rb/gedmach.png
Why are Turks (Mongoloids) close to you? So much for being a "pure Aryan race" when you're mixed with an east Asian race. Lol. These are your own words, btw. You started with the "Mongoloid" thing when it came to Turkic people. And it seems like you got a taste of your medicine. So you're "impure" now, huh? Don't mean it as an insult, though.

Quote
Levant auDNA is partially African. There are 'African' auDNA traces in the Levant & South West Asian auDNA.
And yet you're saying I bullshit. There are no African traces in our DNA. I thought I showed you my results and the genetic make up of an Assyrian. Wake up from your blatant ignorance, please. We get it, you loathe the African race. Doesn't mean you have to spew ignorant crap about other peoples have African in them, when they do NOT. Granted, Arabs would though. Assyrians wouldn't. And I told you that we would have 8,000 years ago or so. Of course, your "race" is the least likely to have African in them, since you're further away from North Africa than we are, anyway. This is basic knowledge.

Quote
Once again, Aryans have a very different admixture (origin/deep roots) than Semites. Aryan race was born when Neolithic Anatolian farmers mixed with the Neolithic Iranian Plateau (Zagros Mountains) Aryans. Aryans are very native to their own homeland, which is Kurdistan and Persia.
So Persia and/or the area near the Zagros mountains is your native homeland. Nobody is refuting that.

Quote
The so called 'Southern European' component in Semites is not really from Europe. Armenians, Turks, Georgians and Kurds (Aryans) in general have the same amount, maybe even more of that so called 'Southern European'. It is actually Western Anatolian/Middle Eastern. It was part of the Neolitic farmers that migrated into Europe. Look at Armenians/Turks in the same chart you posted
What a convenient thing to say. You try so hard to make Semites/Assyrians to be African, and now you seem to be conveniently against that we have Southern European (Greeks/Italians) in us, just because your race is the only race to have ties to Europe? Lol, that's so pathetic and low brow. And only YOUR diagrams of sources are fact? I know now what your agenda is and what you're trying to do. You're trying hard to brand Assyrian as an inferior African race, whilst you guys as a more "superior" European race. Now I showed you genuine facts, you conveniently disregard them because they don't fit with your "Assyrian = African" agenda. Lmao.

Nope. It is Southern European. Facts are facts, whether they fit your agenda or not. Most DNA sources have Italy and Greece for us. Aryans don't (maybe besides the Kurds who've mixed with Semites and lived in Mesopotamia). Which is understandable, since you guys are from farther east than us. Not to mention, the Romans have been in the Middle East. And the Middle East will always have Italy, Greece and even east Africa, depending on their ethnicity.

Yes and? Armenians and Anatolian Turks are also rather proximate to Europe. So it's graspable that they would have South Europe.

Quote
Aryans have NOTHING to do with North Africans or with the Semites. We have nothing in common. Aryans are maybe closer to China than to Northern Africans. 2 different races, 2 different roots.
Dude, it's all black and white to you. And it's amazing how blinded you are. Your own darn gedmatch results had Assyrian and Jew. Just Lmao! It's all a spectrum. North Africans are the least like you and Semites are more like you. Why? Maybe because they're in your f***ng doorstep. Go a bit further to Afghanistan and you'll start to look completely distinct to an Assyrian. This shouldn't be brain surgery.

Quote
Aryans have very different ancient roots. Neolithic Iranian Plateau (Zagros Mountains) farmers were very very different from the Neolithic Levant farmers. They belonged to 2 very different and distinguish races. The difference was maybe bigger than difference between Caucasoid and Mongoloid people nowadays.
Yes. Not gonna deny that. Except that now, due to Islamisation, you've become mixed. Many Muslim Iranians today would have Semitic/Arabic roots. Even if they don't, there are still physical similarities, especially between Iraqis and Kurds.

Quote
What Aryans share with the Semites mostly is the Neolithic Anatolian farmer auDNA. But Aryan Iranian Plateau/Zagros DNA and Semitic Neolithic Levant DNA are very different. Those componnet sare the main thing what makes us so different.
"So different" but you have Assyrian, Jewish and "Mongoloid" Turkish in your gedmatch. Amazing.

Quote
We are VERY distinct. The skin color of people is not important. What is important is their blood, what kind of genes is in their blood.
Nobody gives a crap about their blood. I don't see someone by their blood. Nobody does.

I'll say it again clearly to you. Afghans and Central Asians look very distinct to Assyrians. I can tell them apart from us in an instant. With Kurds and Ezedis, I barely do. With Iranians, it's a 50/50 shot. North Africans also don't look like us. If that offends or bothers you, then god help you. You must be really desperate and insecure to find offenses in such things. And how obsessed with race are you, and how you think you're so different to your Middle Eastern counterparts (*cough* when you don't look so much different to them *cough*). Did someone make fun of you for looking like a Muslim Arab and now you're being so hostile about it and trying hard to "separate" yourself as a completely different race, when you're not really a "completely different race" (since you have Jewish, Assyrian, Armenian, Turkish, like many Semites would)? What is up with you, honestly?

Here you can see the distance between the Neolithic Iranian (Zagros Mountains) auDNA and the Neolithic Levant auDNA. 2 VERY, VERY different races. Also Neolithic Anatolian farmers are very different from the Neolithic Iranians, but they cluster between the Western European hunter-gatherers and the Neolithic Levant.
Just why would neolithic hunter gatherers be so relevant to what we are today? Do you realize how much we have been mixed since then?

Quote
Here you can see than the Iranians (blue squar) cluser very close to the Neolithic Iranian (Zagros Mountains) auDNA, while the Semites (red figures) cluser very close to the Neolithic Levant auDNA. As you can see the Modern Aryans are still very close to the ancient Chalcolithic (Copper Age) Iranians (Aryans). Aryans of the Copper Age, like the ancient Medes and Persians cluster together witht the Modernday Aryans (Kurds + Persians). Modern Aryans are a mixture between moslty ancient Neolithic Iranian (Zagros Mountains) auDNA and some Neolithic Anatolian farmers auDNA.
Yet you again you state the obvious. I know that you guys come from Iran whilst we would be from the Levant. Same way Chinese come from China and Vietnamese from Vietnam.

Quote
I would say if you look at the maps that modern Aryans (Kurds + Persians) are :

75% Neolithic Iranian + 25% Neolithic Anatolian

I agree. Reasonable.


Quote
Here is a correlation between the main Western EurAsian components:

Again, like saying the sky is blue. When we came out Africa, of course we'd first "land" in the Levant and then disperse into the Caucasus, Zagros and/or to Europe. Just because some Europeans came from you doesn't mean they look like you, or are part of your race. You are NOT European. You are not related to Germans and Swedes. You're akin to Armenians, Georgian/Iraqi Jews, Assyrians and other peoples in the Middle East. And your Gedmatch results agree with me. Funny even, you don't even have east Asian in you, as you claim to do ("we're more like Asians than Semites"). Stop contradicting yourself and stop having an inferior complex when it comes to Europeans. This is becoming blatantly obvious in your post - "Europeans are descendants of Iranian/Aryan people and thus they are Europeans too".

Seriously, you have a typical mindset of an Iranian/Kurd, who think they're somehow Nordic/European. They got so butthurt when people rightfully criticized the casting of Jake Gyllenhaal (a white Jew) for playing Prince Dastan in Prince of Persian, yelling "but we are Aryans", "we are white". Lmao. Just admit that you have this mindset. Sorry, but the white Eurocentric world sees you as Middle Eastern, Arab looking race. Granted, even Assyrians look that way too, and are perceived that way. Your historical genetic ties, or "blood", which allegedly paved a way to Europe is totally irrelevant. That's not how races are judged. Technically, you and I should be Africans, because that's where we all came from.


Quote
outdated racial maps, but as illustration the Irano-Afghan race has NOTHING to do with the Semites:





Iranians, Lebanese and Syrians are "white" in the last one and North Africans as "mixed white". I actually don't quite disagree with that. Yes, it's very superficial, but they do get the colouring right. Many Lebanese people, especially those who don't have Arab blood, are rather white.

I know everything about anthropology and human races, so don't come with some bullsh*t to me.
Coming someone who conveniently spewed horse crap about "Southern European" in our genetic makeup not being European (Lol), perhaps to fuel his agenda that only his people have ties to Europe, since he has an inferiority complex? I agreed with you with a lot of things, but you all went to pseudoscience and fringe theories about Southern Europeans and how we don't have genetic ties to them. Stop making a mockery of yourself.

Quote
Aryans are Aryans, and Semites are Semites. 2 different races, with different roots and origins and different legacies. Totally different people.
Except the fact that they'll look alike to Europeans and other races. Sorry, man. And don't bring up the blood thing...

Look at that Afghani Orlando shooter. He's an Afghani even (the ethnicity that looks distant to me, as I admitted a thousand times) and he can easily pass a Levantine. Funny, I thought you guys were a distinct race? Lol.

Quote
To make it on topic again. Don't be ashamed if you want to ally yourselves with the Aryans. Because Aryans are going to win this battle against the Mongoloid Turks and the Semites (Jews & Arabs).
No, thank you. Jews are more efficient and successful than Aryans. Look at Israel and compare it to Aryan hellholes (Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan). Not to mention, you guys are 97% Muslim. Why would we ally with pedophile worshippers? Wake up man. I thought you hated Islam too. Your race has unfortunately cowered to Islam. So brave and so heroic your race is, that they converted to Islam in millions. Lol. Also, Jews are very closely related to us. So it's ideal to be with them.

Quote
If Assyrians want to survive they have to need to ally themselves with the Aryans, otherwise they will be Arabized and their ethnicity will vanish very fast.
It is not a shame to fight against your own race, if it is an existential matter of life and death. For Assyrians it is about to be or not to be.
I mean Europeans also fought many times against each other. And Semites fought also against each other. Just look how Jews kill their own kin the Palestinians. Jews are Palestinians are racially identical, still they fight against each other.
Many modern day Jews have eastern European roots. I thought you know this?

You're also of the Semitic race. You got Georgian, Assyrian and Iraqi in your make-up. Which is understandable, since you're Ezedi, native to northern Iraq and thus had been mixed with "Semites". You are as much as a Semite (a language family, btw) as Obama is black. And that's a lot. Maybe a few thousand years ago you would've been a pure Aryan. And you know that we're mixed. Can't believe that I have to tell you this a thousand times.

Quote
So,  you are not betraying your own race by allying yourselves with the Aryans. Together with the Aryans you will survive. Aryans don't want to mix with you or assimilate you. I mean, I'm an Ezdi Kurd. And it is forbidden according to my religion to mix with other races, if I do so I will go to hell. Aryans don't want to Assimilate Assyrians. You can do nothing to us, the only thing is that Aryans, my people, can help you!
There is no such thing as an Aryan or Semitic race. You are not very distinct or "special". Not unless if you're from Central Asia or eastern Iran, then yes, you may look different. Race is a continuum or a spectrum. That's why in the Asian continent, the more east you go the more Asian you'd start to appear. You're a Middle Eastern/Caucasian of race, just like an Assyrian, but with a few different ethnic make-up. Iraq and Iran are bordering countries. Only your culture and heritage is Aryan. And you do have the rights to proud of your Aryan culture. As a race? Um, no. Like your Middle Eastern counterparts, you have olive to to brown skin, straight to curly dark or brown hair, have an average height, and some of you would even have Asiatic eyes (Afghans). You really aren't a special race. You're as different to us a as a Russian is to an Irish (and even they look distinguishable a bit). We're only one country apart, like Japan and Korea. Assyrians are Mesopotamians and you are Iranians. It doesn't get any more "dramatic" than that.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4802
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: Another Controversial Idea: Alliance with Iran?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2017, 04:40:34 AM »
With the Arab conquest of the region, all groups that converted to Islam, gained Arabian admixture and lost their original cultures, hence why everywhere from Egypt to Oman to Khuzestan, Iran are all "Arabs" mixes (yes, even Aryans). Furthermore, all Muslim Arabs have Sub-Saharan African ancestry due the Arab Slave Trade. It ranges in each population, with Gulf Arabs, such as Kuwaitis and Iraqi Arabs from Basra incurring a substantial amount, which is seen throughout both populations.

A simple google search of both Assyrians and Iraqi Arabs will yield different results in appearance. The former will resemble Armenians, Lebanese/Syrians, and Turks to a larger extent and the latter, more toward Gulf Arabs. The Turko-Mongol invasion and destruction of Baghdad explains part of the depopulation of Mesopotamia and the migration of Bedouins afterward, explains the changes in population.

Armenians and Assyrians used to border each other and had a shared religion, hence the mixing. It also goes to ancient times between the Hurrians and Urartians. That is why we are close. Kurds who are geographically closer, are genetically farther away. Most regions of Turkey are as well and so are Persians and most types of Arabs, including Levantine.

In the last diagram:

*Iraqi Baghdad(Muslims) are shifted toward Persians.

*Iraqi South(Muslims) are shifted toward Arabia and the Levant.

*Assyrians, Mandeans, and Mesopotamian(Iraqi, Kurdish, Iranian) Jews are fixed because of not mixing.

You can see that Armenians are closer to ALL Assyrians than Palestinian and Jordanian Arabs. It ranges on Syrian and Lebanese Arabs. This debunks the outdated idea that there is a "Semitic race".
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 04:42:53 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

Assyrian Universal Alliance annual conference in Iran

Started by ASHOORBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 6
Views: 1375
Last post October 08, 2011, 07:20:28 AM
by Rumtaya
Controversial Idea

Started by mrzurnaciBoard Serious Topics and Discussions

Replies: 48
Views: 3587
Last post February 05, 2017, 05:18:42 PM
by mrzurnaci
Controversial Idea: Intermarriage with Non-Assyrians

Started by mrzurnaciBoard Serious Topics and Discussions

Replies: 9
Views: 975
Last post March 13, 2017, 05:28:42 PM
by Mr. Tambourine Man
A really cool idea..

Started by DonyaBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 3
Views: 442
Last post March 01, 2007, 02:33:25 PM
by ASHOOR
New Forum Idea: Buy and Sell (Classifieds)

Started by ASHOORBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 42
Views: 3220
Last post March 12, 2006, 02:43:24 AM
by Sheik Abdul Bin Fallafel
Templates: 4: index (default), Ads (default), Display (default), SimTopics (default).
Sub templates: 12: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, simtopics_above, main, simtopics_below, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 8: index+Modifications.english (default), index+Modifications.english-utf8 (default), markItUp.english (default), markItUp.english-utf8 (default), SimTopics.english (default), SimTopics.english-utf8 (default), Ads.english (default), Ads.english-utf8 (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 30 - 964KB. (show)
Queries used: 31.

[Show Queries]