Author Topic: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?  (Read 3661 times)

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Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« on: May 10, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
First post here on Assyrianvoice. But I really want some insight as to why we Assyrian girls aren't 1. allowed to date and 2. not date outside of our culture?

I happen to be dating someone outside of the Assyrian circle and my parents don't approve (no surprise there). Despite the fact that the guy I am dating is a genuine person and treats me with respect. They threatened to never talk to me ever again if I marry him, my dad forcefully told me to end my relationship with him (which I haven't)

I'm 23 for F**k's sake. Why are Assyrian parents so controlling? How can I convince them they are being controlling and unreasonable?



Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 03:37:08 PM »
First post here on Assyrianvoice. But I really want some insight as to why we Assyrian girls aren't 1. allowed to date and 2. not date outside of our culture?

I happen to be dating someone outside of the Assyrian circle and my parents don't approve (no surprise there). Despite the fact that the guy I am dating is a genuine person and treats me with respect. They threatened to never talk to me ever again if I marry him, my dad forcefully told me to end my relationship with him (which I haven't)

I'm 23 for F**k's sake. Why are Assyrian parents so controlling? How can I convince them they are being controlling and unreasonable?

no probz aziztee :)

The reason for 1. is because...

since you likely know we don't have a low population (our population ranges from 3m to 5m and spread out across the entire world), one way of trying to keep our culture and language from dying is by being endogamous (marrying within our culture)

Jews do this too and the results is clearly showing that their culture and language has survived. Most Assyrians didn't go the USA to become assimilated, they went here to have a safe place to live.

Reason for 2. is because...

If you do marry outside the culture, how will you try to teach your kids the language and culture while having a spouse who's not Assyrian?

The kids will then be torn whether they should identify with Assyrian or the other.

Either way, the language will be lost because you'll like teach the kids English over Assyrian Aramaic so that the spouse can understand what you're saying to them.

The idea is about survival and thinking about the future children.

The main question with all this is: do you plan to have any children?

If not, then marrying outside the culture isn't and shouldn't be a big deal

If you do plan to have children, then you should do everything it takes to preserve your culture and language with your family.

One thing  my cousin did was he had his fiance convert to the Assyrian church and learn Aramaic; from then on, their kids now know Aramaic and the Assyrian culture.

She pretty much became Assyrian even though she's not. So there's that alternative where you can "convert" whoever you like to become an Assyrian and Assyrian Christian.


In all honesty, I don't mind having to marry only with Assyrians; if I marry outside then I'm going to miss all of my favorite foods and it'll be very difficult to teach my native language to my kids because then my spouse will want to teach them her native language.


So yea Aziztee, why not make him "Assyrian" ? Teach him the language, baptize him in our church, just like in the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the White-American guy was pretty much turned Greek.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 03:51:13 PM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Joe25

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 04:49:13 PM »
First of all where I'm from most Assyrian girls are allowed to date before marriage, though yes it should be with an Assyrian guy. Secondly it depends on what the background of this person is. It's more acceptable to marry an Armenian, Greek, Serbian etc. compared to lets say a Somalian or Chinese. Lastly race-mixing is another method to drive us into extinction, there are simply no ifs or buts about it and I personally think it's a shame that more and more Assyrians are doing this. If it goes past anomalies it becomes a problem, plain and simple. This whole liberal Hollywood fantasy of "you should be with anyone you love because only love matters" is a concept that condones Assyrians marrying with anyone including muslims because hey if he's nice to you and you 'love' him what's the big deal? Well it is a big deal to the vast majority of Assyrians.

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 04:49:13 PM »

Offline alan1

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 06:00:18 PM »
First post here on Assyrianvoice. But I really want some insight as to why we Assyrian girls aren't 1. allowed to date and 2. not date outside of our culture?

I happen to be dating someone outside of the Assyrian circle and my parents don't approve (no surprise there). Despite the fact that the guy I am dating is a genuine person and treats me with respect. They threatened to never talk to me ever again if I marry him, my dad forcefully told me to end my relationship with him (which I haven't)

I'm 23 for F**k's sake. Why are Assyrian parents so controlling? How can I convince them they are being controlling and unreasonable?

I am not Assyrian but this issue is present in all Middle Eastern cultures, so as a Kurd I can relate. First I think you should try to see the situaton from your parents point of view. To them if you marry outside of the Assyrian circle you are essentially doing just that, leaving the Assyrian circle. So, as far as they are concerned, if you ever have kids, the probability of them not speaking Aramaic is quite high, and their cultural values would probably be nonexistent. That worries them because they feel that they will not have a strong connection which in our region is largely revolved around cultural ties with your potential future family.

So really it comes down to you and how much you value your roots. If you don't care, and some don't, then there is no logical reason for you not to pursue this relationship, but if you do, then you really should think about what would happen in the future and discuss that with your partner and/or parents.

It's quite sad that the Middle East is so deeply ****ed beyond repair that Middle Eastern people that displaced all around the world. But, in your defence that is something your parents should have thought of before settling in the West. For example, quite a few of my cousins have married outside of the circle and the family was largely against it, but eventually they got over it. Though I have to add that all their children still speak Kurdish - so, maybe that's something you can discuss with your parents and assure them that you're not going to abandon your heritage.

P.S. One of my best friends is half Assyrian half Irish, but the funny thing is that when we first met all he said is "I am half Iraqi and half Irish" and when we spoke some more and he told me that his father is from close to Mosul and is a Christian I told him "of so you're half Assyrian" he had no clue what that was, came back the next day and said "Oh you were right" and he still, to this day, doesn't give a crap about his Assyrian side. And trust me, I've tried to get a reaction out of them by making jokes, but nothing.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 06:07:52 PM by alan1 »

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 07:02:32 PM »
For all of you saying it's to preserve culture and language: I don't speak the language. I simply forgot. I can understand it but I can't speak it. I'm willing to learn, he's willing to learn but honestly I could care less what other assyrians think. Middle eastern men (for the most part) are abusive, sexist, and quote frankly never lend a helping hand with much. So why should I be forced to marry into a culture i'm already feeling alienated from because of language barriers. Why should I have these ideals forced on me if I am going to be living here in america? We're not back east anymore.

Offline alan1

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 07:10:46 PM »
For all of you saying it's to preserve culture and language: I don't speak the language. I simply forgot. I can understand it but I can't speak it. I'm willing to learn, he's willing to learn but honestly I could care less what other assyrians think. Middle eastern men (for the most part) are abusive, sexist, and quote frankly never lend a helping hand with much. So why should I be forced to marry into a culture i'm already feeling alienated from because of language barriers. Why should I have these ideals forced on me if I am going to be living here in america? We're not back east anymore.

Ok I can understand that - as I said, if you're no longer attached to your roots (which is something I strongly disagree with) then there isn't much to discuss here.

I would like to ask though - have you ever been involved with a Middle East man that has grown in the West or are you simply basing your assessment on older Middle Easter men in your extended family and family friends? Because I can assure you, those of us that grew up in the west are neither abusive or sexist.

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 07:24:33 PM »
Ok I can understand that - as I said, if you're no longer attached to your roots (which is something I strongly disagree with) then there isn't much to discuss here.

I would like to ask though - have you ever been involved with a Middle East man that has grown in the West or are you simply basing your assessment on older Middle Easter men in your extended family and family friends? Because I can assure you, those of us that grew up in the west are neither abusive or sexist.

I haven't and I really don't want to be involved. I never felt like I belonged in my own culture. I appreciate my roots, I appreciate the fact that I can say I am Assyrian but I don't like being forced into a narrow path. The guy I am dating happens to be what I am looking for in a life-long partner. I'm very happy but it's the stubborn middle-eastern mentality that is killing me. I don't want to dissappoint my parents (even though I will unfortunately) and I want to have them in my life but them threatening to never talk to me again is ridiculous.

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 07:30:59 PM »
I know A LOT of assyrian girls (the ones you would otherwise know as "good girls") who date non-assyrians behind their parents' backs. At least I had the nerve to tell my parents about who I was seeing. So if so man girls are choosing to date non-assyrians behind their parents' backs then clearly we don't want to get involved with assyrian men. Just pointing out some obvious things here.

Furthermore, Why is it that Assyrian boys/men are allowed to date whoever the they want (even non-assyrians) and not get as much crap for it?
True words from my dad "Your [younger] brother can do whatever he wants and still not bring disgrace to the family"

Someone care to explain this bull**** to me?

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2016, 07:57:01 PM »
Ok, I realize I'm being a bit aggressive here. I just find it so frustrating that I can't be with someone I love because of these restrictions. I just really want to get to the root of my parents' thinking. I get where they're coming from but they aren't really taking my feelings seriously. They essentially tell me to brush my feelings aside and finish school and wait for someone to ask for my hand in marriage. But I don't like that. I hate that mentality, that system.

All I want is a compromise between me and my parents. I want them to see things more clearly from my perspective before they dismiss him and my emotions for him away. If they got to know him, they would see he genuinely cares for me, respects me, and I have a good future with him. It's unfortunate that we aren't in the same culture but you don't choose who you fall in love with. I care for him very deeply. I've always been obedient and smart and respectful to my parents. But I feel like I need to take a stand for once in my life and not sit back while everyone else decides my future. Is that so wrong?

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 08:03:06 PM »
First of all where I'm from most Assyrian girls are allowed to date before marriage, though yes it should be with an Assyrian guy. Secondly it depends on what the background of this person is. It's more acceptable to marry an Armenian, Greek, Serbian etc. compared to lets say a Somalian or Chinese. Lastly race-mixing is another method to drive us into extinction, there are simply no ifs or buts about it and I personally think it's a shame that more and more Assyrians are doing this. If it goes past anomalies it becomes a problem, plain and simple. This whole liberal Hollywood fantasy of "you should be with anyone you love because only love matters" is a concept that condones Assyrians marrying with anyone including muslims because hey if he's nice to you and you 'love' him what's the big deal? Well it is a big deal to the vast majority of Assyrians.

What's the big deal? Well maybe it's the fact that I have to spend the rest of my life with the person I marry so he SHOULD be good to me, he should respect me, and he should love me. Newsflash: THE GUY I'M DATING MEETS ALL THAT AND MORE.

To hell with what "other Assyrians" think. I can be in happy marriage without it having to be with an Assyrian man.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:04:13 PM by PierceThePatriarchy »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2016, 08:05:22 PM »
Ok, I realize I'm being a bit aggressive here. I just find it so frustrating that I can't be with someone I love because of these restrictions. I just really want to get to the root of my parents' thinking. I get where they're coming from but they aren't really taking my feelings seriously. They essentially tell me to brush my feelings aside and finish school and wait for someone to ask for my hand in marriage. But I don't like that. I hate that mentality, that system.

All I want is a compromise between me and my parents. I want them to see things more clearly from my perspective before they dismiss him and my emotions for him away. If they got to know him, they would see he genuinely cares for me, respects me, and I have a good future with him. It's unfortunate that we aren't in the same culture but you don't choose who you fall in love with. I care for him very deeply. I've always been obedient and smart and respectful to my parents. But I feel like I need to take a stand for once in my life and not sit back while everyone else decides my future. Is that so wrong?

Like I said, the last option you can do is turn him Assyrian.

Secondly, you forgot the language but then it leads to forgetting the culture, next thing you know you're considered a plain old American with all the American stereotypes.

We're not going to tell you how to live your life or anything but at least consider your heritage. Does feeling alienated from being Assyrian sound like a good reason to nearly abandon it all?


Don't think we don't get angry or frustrated when an Assyrian guy wants to date outside. All the beautiful and available Assyrian women that age like wine and he picks outside.

Again, the choice boils down to: are you having kids or planning to have kids?

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2016, 08:10:40 PM »
Like I said, the last option you can do is turn him Assyrian.

Secondly, you forgot the language but then it leads to forgetting the culture, next thing you know you're considered a plain old American with all the American stereotypes.

We're not going to tell you how to live your life or anything but at least consider your heritage. Does feeling alienated from being Assyrian sound like a good reason to nearly abandon it all?


Don't think we don't get angry or frustrated when an Assyrian guy wants to date outside. All the beautiful and available Assyrian women that age like wine and he picks outside.

Again, the choice boils down to: are you having kids or planning to have kids?


Does it really matter if I want kids or not? Because I do. And they will learn Aramaic just like I will. They can learn all that. So why do I HAVE to marry an Assyrain to preserve that ****?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:13:39 PM by PierceThePatriarchy »

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2016, 08:24:56 PM »
Another thing I don't get. Family is family. Family should love each other no matter what. So how can Assyrian parents be so cold-hearted as to stop talking to their own kids because they choose to be happy and marry who they love?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2016, 08:27:04 PM »

Does it really matter if I want kids or not? Because I do. And they will learn Aramaic just like I will. They can learn all that. So why do I HAVE to marry an Assyrain to preserve that ****?

You don't aziztee :)

The idea is to keep the Assyrian identity. Are you 100% sure you'll learn Sureth with your kids?

Will your man be ok with that? What if he doesn't like? I don't know him so I'm not going to assume anything else about him and I'm also going to assume he's ok with that.

Will the kids learn the culture too? Secondly, why do you feel alienated and what will you do to prevent your kids from being alienated?

Your parents care about this whole thing because they want your identity to remain alive.

Assyrians are the actually the most mixed people in the world you could say. many different peoples invaded and migrated into Mesopotamia and each one became part of the Assyrian people and learned and spoke Aramaic.

What your parents are thinking is that: If you marry an Assyrian guy, both kids will retain the identity and culture because both of you are Assyrian.

That's what they're thinking. Thing is, you don't really need to do marry an Assyrian guy to do that.

But again, if your man isn't cool with it, it'll cause conflicts.

Will he know that the kids are going to learn Aramaic over English? If the kids are going to learn Aramaic, you have to teach them as much as possible over English because they will learn and use English throughout their life anyway.

But you need to have learn and use Aramaic so they won't forget it like you did. You can understand it which means you do retain Aramaic but you're not speaking it because you're insecure about your skill in the language and just speak in English which weakens it further.

No worries though Aziztee :) I'll straight up tell you that Assyrian Aramaic is easy. Not only that, we can also answer language questions like alphabet and grammar right here for you ^_^

Offline PierceThePatriarchy

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 08:34:45 PM »
You don't aziztee :)

The idea is to keep the Assyrian identity. Are you 100% sure you'll learn Sureth with your kids?

Will your man be ok with that? What if he doesn't like? I don't know him so I'm not going to assume anything else about him and I'm also going to assume he's ok with that.

Will the kids learn the culture too? Secondly, why do you feel alienated and what will you do to prevent your kids from being alienated?

Your parents care about this whole thing because they want your identity to remain alive.

Assyrians are the actually the most mixed people in the world you could say. many different peoples invaded and migrated into Mesopotamia and each one became part of the Assyrian people and learned and spoke Aramaic.

What your parents are thinking is that: If you marry an Assyrian guy, both kids will retain the identity and culture because both of you are Assyrian.

That's what they're thinking. Thing is, you don't really need to do marry an Assyrian guy to do that.

But again, if your man isn't cool with it, it'll cause conflicts.

Will he know that the kids are going to learn Aramaic over English? If the kids are going to learn Aramaic, you have to teach them as much as possible over English because they will learn and use English throughout their life anyway.

But you need to have learn and use Aramaic so they won't forget it like you did. You can understand it which means you do retain Aramaic but you're not speaking it because you're insecure about your skill in the language and just speak in English which weakens it further.

No worries though Aziztee :) I'll straight up tell you that Assyrian Aramaic is easy. Not only that, we can also answer language questions like alphabet and grammar right here for you ^_^


My boyfriend is totally ok with our kids in the future learning the language. He himself wouldn't mind learning the language. :) I just wish there is something I can say to my parents when the time comes that can maybe turn their attitude around? I don't want them not speaking to me. I want them in my life, in my kids' lives in the future but my mom is the one is VERY against it. My dad is as well but not as much as my mom. By the way, my boyfriend is hispanic. I know that causes a lot of Assyrians to panic but he really is a great and wonderful guy. I want my parents to give him a chance. I don't want them rejecting my love for him because he is hispanic.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 09:05:47 PM »

My boyfriend is totally ok with our kids in the future learning the language. He himself wouldn't mind learning the language. :) I just wish there is something I can say to my parents when the time comes that can maybe turn their attitude around? I don't want them not speaking to me. I want them in my life, in my kids' lives in the future but my mom is the one is VERY against it. My dad is as well but not as much as my mom. By the way, my boyfriend is hispanic. I know that causes a lot of Assyrians to panic but he really is a great and wonderful guy. I want my parents to give him a chance. I don't want them rejecting my love for him because he is hispanic.

well I won't lie, it's likely they heard about my sister's experience with her Hispanic husband through rumor lines lmao.

My sister herself had a hispanic boyfriend that she was seeing behind our parents back. She even took me with us on her dates but I promised not to tell our parents and she'd bribe me with pizza and shawarma lmao.

When our parents first found out about this, they were upset at first but they felt no choice but to oblige because it was a matter they believed they couldn't control.

so wedding happened and we did the wedding with both Assyrian and Spanish songs.

after 5 years though, the guy cheated on my sister and she outright divorced him and never looked back.

The weird part is that I got to know that dude SINCE I was a kid (they were dating since high school) and we pretty much became friends despite the age difference.

It seems that he changed for the worse because I was once over there studio apartment and I was using his laptop to research stuff and I noticed in the history section of the browser all these pornographic links. When I brought it up with my sister and her husband, they all told me that his single friend was using it for porn.

I accepted the story but I later thought "why would his friend use HIS laptop to look at porn and not erase it? Why didn't he just use his own computer or use his phone browser?"; His friend had a computer too so I found it shady that his friend would go use his computer to look at porn inside his house...

then 3-4 years later, we just get a random message how he had cheated on her and that he admitted to it.
After admitting it, the separation escalated to the point where he even threatened to kill my sister and even stopped by the house I lived in with my folks.

I thought I was going to die that night but then my mom went into Mafia gangster mode and told him off about threatening my sister and set him straight.

so aziztee, I'm going to pray your guy doesn't do the same thing this dude did to my own sister.

I know what you're thinking: "I shouldn't judge others based on the actions of one"

Thing is though, this was the first time someone in my immediate family married outside and it ended in total disaster.

meanwhile my youngest sister married an Armenian guy and they pretty much go together like rice and chicken :)

don't forget that Hispanics have a radically different mentality and culture from our own, despite their apparent catholicism...


He's hispanic, what if he wants the kids to learn Spanish over Aramaic? Is he the Americanized Hispanic that don't really speak much Spanish?

See I personally don't care what he is because I've met alot of Hispanic dudes that were awesome, the girls not so much but that my own experience and that doesn't matter in this hamzamta :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 09:08:20 PM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2016, 09:36:05 PM »
Furthermore, Why is it that Assyrian boys/men are allowed to date whoever the they want (even non-assyrians) and not get as much crap for it?
True words from my dad "Your [younger] brother can do whatever he wants and still not bring disgrace to the family"

Someone care to explain this bull**** to me?
That's a typical male chauvinistic mindset among Middle Eastern-cum-Muslim people. My father has also told me that I can sleep with whatever girl I want (from black to white), but if my sister does the same thing (with other men) she'll bring shame to my family. Granted, Europeans have this mentality too, but it's much more "moderated". Whites only go as far as "oh what a slut", but it doesn't escalate to family shaming and the likes.

Quote
Another thing I don't get. Family is family. Family should love each other no matter what. So how can Assyrian parents be so cold-hearted as to stop talking to their own kids because they choose to be happy and marry who they love?
Thankfully, my parents aren't that way. In fact, many aren't (especially those living in Western nations). I know tons of Assyrian women with European and non-white husbands. Typically, we are only against family members marrying a Muslim (unless they convert to Christianity). Marrying a Muslim is the biggest taboo in our culture. Now that, I understand, considering our historical relations with them.

May I ask, what "type" of Hispanic is your boyfriend? You see, Assyrians tend to have some aversion towards dark-skinned and Asian looking folks. Does he look like a typical Mexican with brown skin and "Asian eyes", or is he more Spanish/European looking? I don't know, but many Assyrian mothers I come across tell me that they want their offspring marrying white people (no blacks, Asians and Latinos), so their children can appear that way.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2016, 10:02:05 PM »
That's a typical male chauvinistic mindset among Middle Eastern-cum-Muslim people. My father has also told me that I can sleep with whatever girl I want (from black to white), but if my sister does the same thing (with other men) she'll bring shame to my family. Granted, Europeans have this mentality too, but it's much more "moderated". Whites only go as far as "oh what a slut", but it doesn't escalate to family shaming and the likes.
The idea behind it is that kids are the property of the parents. Obviously with Pierce's case, she's a grown woman who's pretty much too old and should've been married by now  :mfr_lol:

Joking aside, the kids are considered "parental property" until they're old enough to become independent and make their own decisions.

The reason for the double standard is because, from a sexual relationship, the man has nearly nothing to lose with sleeping with a woman while the woman will lose many things (emotional stability, etc)

From this, women are conditioned by female and male members of society to choose carefully.

Obviously this double standard sucks because men can't get any if the women don't give :)

Thankfully, my parents aren't that way. In fact, many aren't (especially those living in Western nations). I know tons of Assyrian women with European and non-white husbands. Typically, we are only against family members marrying a Muslim (unless they convert to Christianity). Marrying a Muslim is the biggest taboo in our culture. Now that, I understand, considering our historical relations with them.

May I ask, what "type" of Hispanic is your boyfriend? You see, Assyrians tend to have some aversion towards dark-skinned and Asian looking folks. Does he look like a typical Mexican with brown skin and "Asian eyes", or is he more Spanish/European looking? I don't know, but many Assyrian mothers I come across tell me that they want their offspring marrying white people (no blacks, Asians and Latinos), so their children can appear that way.

That's what I'm trying to put here. Why does it seem so difficult for Assyrians to just be inclusive and assimilate others to become Assyrians?

Hell, I'd let my kids marry whoever they want, granted that person becomes Assyrian. No big deal but terms and conditions apply  :cool2:

Offline Joe25

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2016, 11:00:27 PM »
What's the big deal? Well maybe it's the fact that I have to spend the rest of my life with the person I marry so he SHOULD be good to me, he should respect me, and he should love me. Newsflash: THE GUY I'M DATING MEETS ALL THAT AND MORE.

To hell with what "other Assyrians" think. I can be in happy marriage without it having to be with an Assyrian man.

You can find an Assyrian who will be good to you and love you. And you clearly care a lot about what other Assyrians think otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread. You shouldn't have asked the opinions of strangers about this if you weren't gonna be able to handle a difference of opinion. Most of us think it's wrong and won't be making the same mistake as you, that's all.

We have a unique, distant DNA type compared to other mixed up middle eastern people because our people have been sticking to our own for thousands of years. I don't think we should throw that away. The reason I'm so against it is because we have such a small worldwide population, technically even smaller due to all the seperate fractions we have as a race.

@ mrzurnaci, you're proud of our history. You really don't mind a future where Assyrians don't look like our ancestors as seen on ancient paintings etc.(I'm not saying it would ever get that far but still) and rather a mixture of people in the disaspora. Lets be honest here, even if these Assyrians try hard to teach their children the language and culture we wouldn't survive long at all.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2016, 11:25:45 AM »
You can find an Assyrian who will be good to you and love you. And you clearly care a lot about what other Assyrians think otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread. You shouldn't have asked the opinions of strangers about this if you weren't gonna be able to handle a difference of opinion. Most of us think it's wrong and won't be making the same mistake as you, that's all.

We have a unique, distant DNA type compared to other mixed up middle eastern people because our people have been sticking to our own for thousands of years. I don't think we should throw that away. The reason I'm so against it is because we have such a small worldwide population, technically even smaller due to all the seperate fractions we have as a race.

@ mrzurnaci, you're proud of our history. You really don't mind a future where Assyrians don't look like our ancestors as seen on ancient paintings etc.(I'm not saying it would ever get that far but still) and rather a mixture of people in the disaspora. Lets be honest here, even if these Assyrians try hard to teach their children the language and culture we wouldn't survive long at all.

but joe, we ourselves are a mixture of various middle eastern people who migrated into Mesopotamia.

if that's the case you're worried about, what about limiting it to Mediterranean peoples like Greeks and Armenians?

many Assyrians are part Armenian themselves.

If Assyrians are not going to mix, then many (tribal) Assyrians need to mix with the other tribes at least so that we can prevent congenital diseases like how European Jews developed...

Offline kulan-suryoye

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 09:44:23 AM »
I hate Assyrian who are married with non-Assyrians. Assyrians should only marry Assyrians, the reason is simple because thats the first step into assimilation. I dont like Assyrians who dont even speak their own Language, for me that means that they dont care about their roots. Im am Born and raised in Germany and speak, read and write Syriac-Aramaic, i teached it myself. In our Family is it forbidden to marry outside our culture and will never be tolerated, this would be inhibited by all means

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 09:49:42 AM »
I hate Assyrian who are married with non-Assyrians. Assyrians should only marry Assyrians, the reason is simple because thats the first step into assimilation. I dont like Assyrians who dont even speak their own Language, for me that means that they dont care about their roots. Im am Born and raised in Germany and speak, read and write Syriac-Aramaic, i teached it myself. In our Family is it forbidden to marry outside our culture and will never be tolerated, this would be inhibited by all means

what do you think of the idea of converting them to the Assyrian churches and having them virtually become Assyrian though?

Secondly, me and her are in the USA and there's no Assyrian schools except in the churches but that's not a good learning environment :/

Thirdly, many Assyrian parents in the USA are kind of (more like VERY) lazy when it comes to teaching about the language and the culture.

Likely because many of them don't know how to read the language themselves.

Weirdest part of all was that my parents assumed that I knew cultural events or customs...

My parents rarely taught or told me about cultural events and customs and they simply just followed them the way they did it but they never taught us about it. It was the same case with the language.

Language and Culture is taught, it's not instinctual.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:00:08 AM by mrzurnaci »

Offline kulan-suryoye

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 12:02:43 PM »
what do you think of the idea of converting them to the Assyrian churches and having them virtually become Assyrian though?

Secondly, me and her are in the USA and there's no Assyrian schools except in the churches but that's not a good learning environment :/

Thirdly, many Assyrian parents in the USA are kind of (more like VERY) lazy when it comes to teaching about the language and the culture.

Likely because many of them don't know how to read the language themselves.

Weirdest part of all was that my parents assumed that I knew cultural events or customs...

My parents rarely taught or told me about cultural events and customs and they simply just followed them the way they did it but they never taught us about it. It was the same case with the language.

Language and Culture is taught, it's not instinctual.

I dont think this would work really, you gotta think about if you marry a Non-Assyrian you can teach your children your culture and Language for a part, but we gotta keep in mind that These children After they grow up will marry a non-Assyrian too and then it is almost impossible to keep your culture, simply because these Children are only half Assyrian. So your grandchildren will only be to a third Assyrian and the full assimilation is coming near. My partens also cant write and read Aramaic i teached it myself and of you want to learn our Language you dont need a School we can learn it for parts from the Churches, Internet and Friends.

Offline Shahin

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 12:51:25 PM »
I dont think this would work really, you gotta think about if you marry a Non-Assyrian you can teach your children your culture and Language for a part, but we gotta keep in mind that These children After they grow up will marry a non-Assyrian too and then it is almost impossible to keep your culture, simply because these Children are only half Assyrian. So your grandchildren will only be to a third Assyrian and the full assimilation is coming near. My partens also cant write and read Aramaic i teached it myself and of you want to learn our Language you dont need a School we can learn it for parts from the Churches, Internet and Friends.

Did you teach yourself Classical Syriac (able to read & write it ?) ? Can you explain how ? What material did you use ? How long did it took ?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:06:38 PM by Shahin »
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
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Offline kulan-suryoye

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 02:52:44 PM »
Did you teach yourself Classical Syriac (able to read & write it ?) ? Can you explain how ? What material did you use ? How long did it took ?


Yes i started with the Serto font, i looked online for the syriac alphabet and learned it, it is easy to learn, when you know the alphabet its not difficult to read, but more difficult to understand what you read when its written in classical syriac "Kthobonoyo", in know many classical syriac words but i do not speak it fluently. It was not a single process, im still learning everyday since i have syriac keyboard on my iphone with the serto font, Estrangelo Tur Abdin and Eastern Estrangelo style, sometimes i use to chat with my friend in whats app, written in syriac with turoyo dialect, thats something really great, one click you can change the keyboard to syriac and write in your motherlanguage with your friends and family. I can write with a pen too but my handwriting is ugly, but on the Computer or Mobile Phone it is very very easy and everbody can learn.

Offline Shahin

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 04:31:21 PM »
Yes i started with the Serto font, i looked online for the syriac alphabet and learned it, it is easy to learn, when you know the alphabet its not difficult to read, but more difficult to understand what you read when its written in classical syriac "Kthobonoyo", in know many classical syriac words but i do not speak it fluently. It was not a single process, im still learning everyday since i have syriac keyboard on my iphone with the serto font, Estrangelo Tur Abdin and Eastern Estrangelo style, sometimes i use to chat with my friend in whats app, written in syriac with turoyo dialect, thats something really great, one click you can change the keyboard to syriac and write in your motherlanguage with your friends and family. I can write with a pen too but my handwriting is ugly, but on the Computer or Mobile Phone it is very very easy and everbody can learn.
Ah, I thought you knew how to write Kthobonoyo. And also 100% understand it when reading it.
How do you write Turoyo ? Do you follow a specific grammar ?
Since Turoyo doesn't have a standard grammar, for the moment (There is one from Malfono abdulMasih Sa'di but still not adopted by our scholars, malfone and church leader...), no one "know" how to write it correctly. There is still not a consensus on it.
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline Etain

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 04:39:42 PM »
I assumed it was a Middle Eastern thing. A lot of groups from there are like that.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2016, 08:36:52 PM »
Ah, I thought you knew how to write Kthobonoyo. And also 100% understand it when reading it.
How do you write Turoyo ? Do you follow a specific grammar ?
Since Turoyo doesn't have a standard grammar, for the moment (There is one from Malfono abdulMasih Sa'di but still not adopted by our scholars, malfone and church leader...), no one "know" how to write it correctly. There is still not a consensus on it.

Man I need to learn Western dialect too. I think I'll schedule a trip to Turkey and go straight to Tur Abdin, or maybe Mardin, where would you guys prefer to go to learn?

I assumed it was a Middle Eastern thing. A lot of groups from there are like that.

It's a Middle Eastern and, to a lesser extent, a Mediterranean thing.

Greeks and Italians aren't as conservative about but (if you've seen the My Big Fat Greek Wedding movie) you'll see that they do also practice it.

The only reason for Assyrians to do it modernly is so that we can survive as a people and a nation.

We'll assimilate into your society but we don't want to give up who we are.

it is by knowing who we are and knowing our successive history that makes us do good and great things in the Homeland, the West, and the Rest.

I mean we're no different from other people but it is our culture and ethnic philosophy that has made us successful and good people.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2016, 11:09:50 PM »
getting back to the topic. I think Pierce isn't really going to listen to us but let's remember that she's in her early 20s.

She'll eventually learn and realize why we have it done this way.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2016, 01:40:40 AM »
many Assyrians are part Armenian themselves.
That's true. My maternal cousin's great grandparent (dunno which) is Armenian.

And I know a lot more Assyrians with Armenian lineage.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Etain

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2016, 02:46:38 AM »


It's a Middle Eastern and, to a lesser extent, a Mediterranean thing.

Greeks and Italians aren't as conservative about but (if you've seen the My Big Fat Greek Wedding movie) you'll see that they do also practice it.

The only reason for Assyrians to do it modernly is so that we can survive as a people and a nation.

We'll assimilate into your society but we don't want to give up who we are.

it is by knowing who we are and knowing our successive history that makes us do good and great things in the Homeland, the West, and the Rest.

I mean we're no different from other people but it is our culture and ethnic philosophy that has made us successful and good people.
Makes sense. I imagine it has to do with population number overall. Greeks in the US are more endogamous as a result of there not being as many. Italians still have a strong ethnic identity and usually marry other Italians,but not as much as Greeks.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2016, 04:40:40 AM »
Italians still have a strong ethnic identity and usually marry other Italians,but not as much as Greeks.
Do they? So many Italian Americans tend to have Irish, German and/or English ancestry, or at least, they'd marry people of these ethnic groups. Italians living in America and Australia tend to be the most mixed Mediterranean peoples.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Anid

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2016, 06:35:59 AM »
This girl is a troll

Offline Etain

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2016, 01:38:47 PM »
Do they? So many Italian Americans tend to have Irish, German and/or English ancestry, or at least, they'd marry people of these ethnic groups. Italians living in America and Australia tend to be the most mixed Mediterranean peoples.
For Mediterranean people,yeah. But compared to Americans of Germanic descent,no. I would say most Italian Americans tend to be mostly Italian,if not 100% so.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Why are we expected to marry other Assyrians?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2016, 02:55:22 PM »

This girl is a troll

Why do you say+think that Anid?

I won't lie, it's possible considering this girl doesn't know Assyrian yet she can understand it?

remember that she says "I don't speak the language. I simply forgot. I can understand it but I can't speak it."

how do you forget to speak a language that you can understand?

Secondly, WHAT IF this is a guy who wants to marry a non-Assyrian girl and he's basically reversing the entire situation to get a different answer or understanding?

 

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