Author Topic: mostly used letters in the assyrian language  (Read 1526 times)

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Offline Daggo

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« on: November 03, 2005, 10:01:13 AM »
do you ever wonder which letter is most used in our language in my opinion the most annoying letter in our alphabet (khet) or KH is the one used most.  lets observe this sentence..

"de mkhee kha telephone qa khoshaba khazikh meetele yan khayele".

6 times the letter KH appears in a 10 letter sentence, by the time someone finishes saying that he would be able to spit a giant ball of rooqeh (spit).


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Offline Had

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2005, 12:04:48 PM »
Quote from: Daggo
do you ever wonder which letter is most used in our language in my opinion the most annoying letter in our alphabet (khet) or KH is the one used most.  lets observe this sentence..

"de mkhee kha telephone qa khoshaba khazikh meetele yan khayele".

6 times the letter KH appears in a 10 letter sentence, by the time someone finishes saying that he would be able to spit a giant ball of rooqeh (spit).


It depends on your dialect.  Switch to Botanaya accent: typical Assyrian words but the 'kh' is replaced with an 'h' :lol:

If I remember correctly Western Assyrian also uses the 'h' more and the 'kh' less.

Offline X e n a

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2005, 03:27:06 PM »
a khamindee raba majibanehva. hitch len mooteeta bala el da mindee.

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2005, 03:27:06 PM »

Offline Daggo

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2005, 10:10:46 PM »
Zena..

ana khabrane ana moolkhimoon sabab khet raba pishtela mooplikhta jo chull khabrane te maplikhikhloon.  (spits out).
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Offline SlitUrAnkles

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 02:16:42 AM »
ha yani u "fixed it" so the results would come out the way u wanted them to... :sly:
Quote from: Daggo
Zena..

ana khabrane ana moolkhimoon sabab khet raba pishtela mooplikhta jo chull khabrane te maplikhikhloon.  (spits out).

Offline Daggo

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 04:50:35 PM »
Quote from: SlitUrAnkles
ha yani u "fixed it" so the results would come out the way u wanted them to... :sly:
Quote from: Daggo
Zena..

ana khabrane ana moolkhimoon sabab khet raba pishtela mooplikhta jo chull khabrane te maplikhikhloon.  (spits out).


 :grin:
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Offline KrayZ

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mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2005, 10:18:08 PM »
lol.. not really.. we use a lot.. but kh is just the most NOTICABLE ONE cuz its so harsh on teh trhoat 2 amreekyaE lol
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Offline Cascade

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 09:39:51 AM »
And 7 times "A" appeared in that sentence (beating "kh").

I usually hear the "ah" sound in Assyrian a lot (ana, baba, khata, mata, raba, atra, atur, arpa, khamsha, ishta, yema, etc and etc). "Kh" is just more noticeable because it's a guttural sound, but it NEVER beats that vowel. Listen to this Assyrian sample and you won't even hear a lot of "kh", but just vowel after a vowel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Assyriansample.ogg).

We have a lot of vowels in our language (A, E, O and U mostly). It's remarkable how we never invented new letters for the vowel sounds, and instead stuck with the unaltered, primitive Phoenician variant of the alphabet. Even Arabs incorporated new letters (like "ghayn"). Instead of creating new Syriac variants (serto, madnhaya), we should've invented new letters to indicate vowels.
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 03:02:07 PM »
And 7 times "A" appeared in that sentence (beating "kh").

I usually hear the "ah" sound in Assyrian a lot (ana, baba, khata, mata, raba, atra, atur, arpa, khamsha, ishta, yema, etc and etc).

Because '-ah' is standard Aramaic. Standard Aramaic dictates that SINGULAR NOUNS end with '-ah'

We have a lot of vowels in our language (A, E, O and U mostly). It's remarkable how we never invented new letters for the vowel sounds, and instead stuck with the unaltered, primitive Phoenician variant of the alphabet. Even Arabs incorporated new letters (like "ghayn"). Instead of creating new Syriac variants (serto, madnhaya), we should've invented new letters to indicate vowels.

Because we didn't need them. Alaph, Waw, and Yodh marked when a vowel was used or placed, thus we didn't need vowel letters which just add more sht to write... If it ain't broke, don't fix it... Be PRACTICAL...
ghayn in Arabic isn't a new letter, they've always had it as a sound and needed to solve which letter represents each sound.

Stop comparing Latin and Greek to Syriac and Hebrew. Even Hebrew, especially modern Israeli Hebrew, doesn't use vowels as letters.

You're trying to compare two completely different language SYSTEMS to each other.

Latin and Greek are indo-european languages that construct words using multiple roots. Semitic languages use single roots so it's completely unnecessary to have vowels as letters compared to multiple roots which could mix and match vowels.

Offline Cascade

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 11:39:14 PM »
Because '-ah' is standard Aramaic. Standard Aramaic dictates that SINGULAR NOUNS end with '-ah'
Which aids my point even more. Phoenician probably didn't have "ah's" (at least not as much as we do). If Aramaic did, then a letter for it would've been beneficial for our language. Why persistently imitate their alphabet when we had a different vocabulary system?

Quote
Because we didn't need them. Alaph, Waw, and Yodh marked when a vowel was used or placed, thus we didn't need vowel letters which just add more sht to write... If it ain't broke, don't fix it... Be PRACTICAL...
It's not broke, but it's definitely not complete. Aleph can be a glottal stop - In fact, that's what it always stood for. It was never a vowel. Waw was W and now we use it for O. Two different sounds, if you ask me. Yodh is Y, but also I today. It's confusing. It's really not about practicality and it's not a comparison to Latin or Greek. Your tongue and mine would agree that I and Y make a different sound. Also, if my Assyrian tongue can produce A, E, I, O and U in the Assyrian language, why not have the courtesy to give these sounds their own perspective letters?

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ghayn in Arabic isn't a new letter, they've always had it as a sound and needed to solve which letter represents each sound.
You misunderstood my point. It's a "new" letter in Phoenician abjads. Our alphabet is still homogeneous to Phoenician. The sounds are unaltered and unchanged, except for the letter shapes.

Quote
Stop comparing Latin and Greek to Syriac and Hebrew. Even Hebrew, especially modern Israeli Hebrew, doesn't use vowels as letters.

You're trying to compare two completely different language SYSTEMS to each other.
Who was comparing Latin to Syriac? Many non-European scripts use letters to denote vowels.

Vowels are vowels. Add a letter to represent them, so people won't be puzzled. Our letter sounds have remained unchanged for over 2500 years. It's about being updated. If the Arabic system incorporated "ghayn" and six other letters, why didn't we invent vowel sounds? And not just vowel sounds. Other consonants that weren't present in the primitive Phoenician alphabet - F and V. Why must we remain loyal to the Phoenician system? What do they have on us? I thought Assyrians are individualistic and ambitious? But it looks like we're not, since we haven't even altered our alphabet sounds. But only how their letters look, because Assyrians have always been materialistic and garish (no surprise there).

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Latin and Greek are indo-european languages that construct words using multiple roots. Semitic languages use single roots so it's completely unnecessary to have vowels as letters compared to multiple roots which could mix and match vowels.
That's understandable. And I know this. But what's wrong with pushing boundaries, inventing and simplifying things?

Incidentally, Thai isn't a IE language and its alphabet has letters that indicate vowels. So it really isn't a Indo-European thing.
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2016, 02:06:54 AM »
Which aids my point even more. Phoenician probably didn't have "ah's" (at least not as much as we do). If Aramaic did, then a letter for it would've been beneficial for our language. Why persistently imitate their alphabet when we had a different vocabulary system?
I don't care what Phoenicians spoke or did, and nobody else cares.

It's not broke, but it's definitely not complete. Aleph can be a glottal stop - In fact, that's what it always stood for. It was never a vowel. Waw was W and now we use it for O. Two different sounds, if you ask me. Yodh is Y, but also I today. It's confusing.

If it's not broke, stop whining then. Aleph IS a glottal stop when it's in the middle., it also has a secondary function of marking placements of beginning and ending vowels... It's confusing because you're bad at reading and interpreting context.

It's really not about practicality and it's not a comparison to Latin or Greek. Your tongue and mine would agree that I and Y make a different sound. Also, if my Assyrian tongue can produce A, E, I, O and U in the Assyrian language, why not have the courtesy to give these sounds their own perspective letters?
I and Y make the same sound at the very start of making the Y sound so no.
Assyrian Neo-Syriac has more vowels than you ones you just spelled out. and yes it is about practicality, this ain't a fkin beauty contest with languages.

You misunderstood my point. It's a "new" letter in Phoenician abjads. Our alphabet is still homogeneous to Phoenician. The sounds are unaltered and unchanged, except for the letter shapes.
Who was comparing Latin to Syriac? Many non-European scripts use letters to denote vowels.
So is Hebrew and Arabic also homogeneous to Phoenician? They seem like they don't care and neither do I since IT'S NOT BROKEN.

Vowels are vowels. Add a letter to represent them, so people won't be puzzled. Our letter sounds have remained unchanged for over 2500 years. It's about being updated. If the Arabic system incorporated "ghayn" and six other letters, why didn't we invent vowel sounds? And not just vowel sounds. Other consonants that weren't present in the primitive Phoenician alphabet - F and V. Why must we remain loyal to the Phoenician system? What do they have on us? I thought Assyrians are individualistic and ambitious? But it looks like we're not, since we haven't even altered our alphabet sounds. But only how their letters look, because Assyrians have always been materialistic and garish (no surprise there).
That's understandable. And I know this. But what's wrong with pushing boundaries, inventing and simplifying things?

Incidentally, Thai isn't a IE language and its alphabet has letters that indicate vowels. So it really isn't a Indo-European thing.
[/quote]

This is not the Phoenician system khmara, this is the General Aramaic system...

we already have fkin vowels, they're called Zlameh wa-Zqafeh. You don't even know your own language, stop butting into its business. Either get good at it or stop whining. You can whine all you want when you've mastered it.

Offline Cascade

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2016, 11:15:07 PM »
I don't care what Phoenicians spoke or did, and nobody else cares.
Apparently, you do. You're the one who wants the Syriac script to remain unchanged and akin to Phoenician. Don't make laugh. You're satirizing yourself again.

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If it's not broke, stop whining then. Aleph IS a glottal stop when it's in the middle., it also has a secondary function of marking placements of beginning and ending vowels... It's confusing because you're bad at reading and interpreting context.
You have a stupid logic. You're the one who wants to educate people with Syriac. If you want people learning Syriac, you would need vowels in the system, or they will be confused. The world isn't about you, you know? Do you realize that only the native readers of Syriac and other abjads would know where the vowels are? Qatar is Qtr if you read it in Arabic. Someone who doesn't speak Arabic (but can read the script) would have no idea where the vowels are. Only a native reader would be aware of such instance. You know that it is a primitively vague system and you're too stubborn to admit it.

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I and Y make the same sound at the very start of making the Y sound so no.
Nice try, bub. They still don't sound the same. Enough of your petty excuses.

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Assyrian Neo-Syriac has more vowels than you ones you just spelled out. and yes it is about practicality, this ain't a fkin beauty contest with languages.
A beauty contest? Seriously, that's the best you can do? And if Assyrian has a lot more vowels then this just helps my case more.

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So is Hebrew and Arabic also homogeneous to Phoenician? They seem like they don't care and neither do I since IT'S NOT BROKEN.
You want the Syriac alphabet to be perpetually based on a 3000 year old, unaltered system which has nothing on modern Assyrian. That makes so much sense. If it's not broken, then why did we alter the shape of the letters a few times? Your logic is skewed.

Arabic isn't homogeneous to Phoenician (nice try). You intentionally pay no heed to this. I thought you know that Arabs have six alternative letters (for instance, the "gh" letter, which wasn't in Phoenician).

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This is not the Phoenician system khmara, this is the General Aramaic system...
Just what the f**k are you on about now? You're sucking Phoenicians genitals without even realizing it. You really care about their primitive system since you're so worked up defending it. It's amazing how blinded and oblivious you are to this. Your Aramaic system is based on the Phoenician alphabet. Deal with it. Just because you can't face reality doesn't mean you should retort to ad hominems.

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we already have fkin vowels, they're called Zlameh wa-Zqafeh. You don't even know your own language, stop butting into its business. Either get good at it or stop whining. You can whine all you want when you've mastered it.
Oh my, really!? I didn't know that we had zlameh and sqapeh. I must be so stupid. *yawn*

They are a lazy and vague way to indicate vowels. They look so much like each other sometimes. Shut up and quit being such an excuse-making apologist. I've had enough of your purist crap already.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 07:57:44 AM »
Our current system is fully sufficient at representing exactly how a word is pronounced. That being said, I wouldn't mind creating a new script that efficiently takes up space - especially for TV and computer screens, billboards, signs, etc. The Latin script does seem like the best script for such uses, after it, perhaps the Cyrillic and Hebrew scripts are the best. Foruntaley for us, there already is a Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian. Also, the Hebrew script is called "Ashuri script" because it is based on ancient Assyrian Aramaic script.

For a look at the Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian, scroll down this page: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/assyrianneoaramaic.htm
..or see: http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/assyrianneoaramaic_cyr.gif
For a look at the modern Hebrew script and the ancient Assyrian script that it comes from, see the imperial Aramaic script: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet#Letters

I find that the modern Hebrew script has barely deviated from our ancient Imperial Aramaic script as well as that the modern Hebrew script's ("Ashuri script's") characters fit quite well in evenly shaped squares or the imaginary slots that take up space on a sheet of paper, screen, sign etc. Although culturally distant, the Cyrillic script is far better for that purpose and this is even truer of the simpler Latin script.
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2016, 12:31:20 PM »
Our current system is fully sufficient at representing exactly how a word is pronounced. That being said, I wouldn't mind creating a new script that efficiently takes up space - especially for TV and computer screens, billboards, signs, etc. The Latin script does seem like the best script for such uses, after it, perhaps the Cyrillic and Hebrew scripts are the best. Foruntaley for us, there already is a Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian. Also, the Hebrew script is called "Ashuri script" because it is based on ancient Assyrian Aramaic script.

For a look at the Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian, scroll down this page: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/assyrianneoaramaic.htm
..or see: http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/assyrianneoaramaic_cyr.gif
For a look at the modern Hebrew script and the ancient Assyrian script that it comes from, see the imperial Aramaic script: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet#Letters

I find that the modern Hebrew script has barely deviated from our ancient Imperial Aramaic script as well as that the modern Hebrew script's ("Ashuri script's") characters fit quite well in evenly shaped squares or the imaginary slots that take up space on a sheet of paper, screen, sign etc. Although culturally distant, the Cyrillic script is far better for that purpose and this is even truer of the simpler Latin script.


Well either way, I'm sticking to Aramaic.

Offline Cascade

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Re: mostly used letters in the assyrian language
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2016, 10:58:45 PM »
Our current system is fully sufficient at representing exactly how a word is pronounced. That being said, I wouldn't mind creating a new script that efficiently takes up space - especially for TV and computer screens, billboards, signs, etc. The Latin script does seem like the best script for such uses, after it, perhaps the Cyrillic and Hebrew scripts are the best. Foruntaley for us, there already is a Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian. Also, the Hebrew script is called "Ashuri script" because it is based on ancient Assyrian Aramaic script.

For a look at the Cyrillic alphabet for Assyrian, scroll down this page: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/assyrianneoaramaic.htm
..or see: http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/assyrianneoaramaic_cyr.gif
For a look at the modern Hebrew script and the ancient Assyrian script that it comes from, see the imperial Aramaic script: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet#Letters

I find that the modern Hebrew script has barely deviated from our ancient Imperial Aramaic script as well as that the modern Hebrew script's ("Ashuri script's") characters fit quite well in evenly shaped squares or the imaginary slots that take up space on a sheet of paper, screen, sign etc. Although culturally distant, the Cyrillic script is far better for that purpose and this is even truer of the simpler Latin script.

Of course, our current system has the capability to represent every word. But it just has a monotonous and vague way to indicate their sounds. It takes a lot of effort and time to distinguish and memorize sqapeh's and zlameh's. For one reason, they just look so similar at times.

That's an interesting Latin transliteration. I really dig it. Not the biggest fan of Cyrillic, though. Never liked their system (it's pretty much a copy of Greek and Latin, and is less simpler). But hey, it can come handy to Russian Assyrians. I do agree that the Latin script can be efficient for us, because it's very basic and nearly every Assyrian, even those in the Middle East, utilize it (i.e. social media).
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