Author Topic: Why do Syriac Orthodox/Syriac Catholic Assyrians from Mosul not speak Assyrian?  (Read 446 times)

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Offline SonOfAssyria

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Hi, this is my first post on AVN :)

My Father is Syriac Catholic and from the "Muslawi/Mosulaya" tribe (if that can even be considered a tribe). He does not speak Assyrian, but Iraqi Arabic  (Mosul dialect as well), and for some reason Syriac Assyrians from Mosul generally don't speak Assyrian. I asked my Dad why and he told me that they (Muslawis) just forgot how to speak it over time (to my knowledge even his great-grandparents do not speak Assyrian), but this has always made me curious because if Assyrians from other villages did not lose their language, then why is it that Assyrians from Mosul lose their language?

I want to see if anyone here knows the reason for this. I believe it has something to do with the Sayfo genocide in 1915. I think I've heard from somewhere that apparently Mosulaye are originally from Mardin or other places in Turkey, and Turkey tried to suppress the Assyrian Churches and forced them not to speak Assyrian, which is why the Syriac Catholic Church does not exist in Turkey anymore, and I believe many Syriac Assyrians fled Turkey to Mosul during Sayfo. I'd also appreciate it if there is any Assyrians from Mosul who can give me an input on this as well.

I'd like to see what people say about this, everyone I've asked basically just tells me they forgot how to speak it and can't really say anything else, I don't really think they know why themselves, and I've tried to do some research on this but I haven't found anything.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 05:22:11 AM by SonOfAssyria »


"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Do a DNA test on your father / your people and you will find out where the roots of your family are.

If you are rather more northern shifted toward Anatolia than average Assyrian population, then it is possible that your family is connected to Northern Kurdistan.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 09:45:24 AM by Ezidi Kurd »

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Personally (as an Ezdi Kurd) I'm connect to both South and North Kurdistan. My paternal, paternal tribe is from Shengal, while other ancestors are from Wan region of Northern Kurdistan. So I did a DNA test and i found out that my auDNA is telling the same story. I'm related to (Ezdi) Kurds around Shengal/Shexan and also closely related (DNA matches) to Kurds in Wan region in Northern Kurdistan.

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Offline SonOfAssyria

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A DNA test will only tell me where my ancestors probably come from, nothing else. It will not answer my question
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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was your dad born during the reign of Saddam Hussein? Also, Ignore Ezidi Kurd, he/she knows nothing on these matters.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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No, but he lived in Iraq during Saddam's reign
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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No, but he lived in Iraq during Saddam's reign

that's because Saddam enforced all publics schools to teach only Arabic. Pretty sure Mosul wasn't excluded either.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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I understand that, but even my Dad's grandparents cannot speak Assyrian, and they were obviously around before Saddam's reign
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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Good question.

I used to think Muslawis were initially Catholic Assyrians ('Chaldeans') who naturally forgot their Assyrian language and culture. Also, unlike many Assyrians, they usually tend to be fair-skinned with light features. Not sure if that's a coincidence.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Good question.

I used to think Muslawis were initially Catholic Assyrians ('Chaldeans') who naturally forgot their Assyrian language and culture. Also, unlike many Assyrians, they usually tend to be fair-skinned with light features. Not sure if that's a coincidence.

That's because Muslawi's are Assyrian. "Muslawi" is kind of like a tribe, just like how you have Tyaraye, Ankawaye, Jilwaye, etc.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline mrzurnaci

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That's because Muslawi's are Assyrian. "Muslawi" is kind of like a tribe, just like how you have Tyaraye, Ankawaye, Jilwaye, etc.

a good question would be WHEN were they Assyrian? Secondly, do they even consider themselves Assyrian? I doubt it.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Yes actually. Many just say that they are Assyrian but they just can't speak Assyrian, but there are also those who simply just refer to themselves as "Syriani" or even "Aramean". I've only seen one or two refer to themselves as Aramean but mostly they just call themselves Syriani
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline SonOfAssyria

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We are just as Assyrian as any other Assyrian. Just because many do not acknowledge their Assyrian ancestry, doesn't mean they aren't Assyrians. If that were the case then practically at the very least half of all Assyrians aren't Assyrian.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Bronit Omta

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Syriac Orthodox and Catholic's in Iraq speak the Madenkhaya dialect. This just proves the point that we are the same people (since the change in dialect is due to geography rather than which group you belong to).

Most Moslawi's would prefer Arabic over Assyrian. I'm sure they would understand and can speak sureth.

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Syriac Orthodox and Catholic's in Iraq speak the Madenkhaya dialect. This just proves the point that we are the same people (since the change in dialect is due to geography rather than which group you belong to).

Most Moslawi's would prefer Arabic over Assyrian. I'm sure they would understand and can speak sureth.

It's not that they prefer Arabic over Assyrian, it's just that they can't speak Assyrian whatsoever. I have never met a Syriac Orthodox/Catholic Moslawi that can speak Assyrian. I know there is many Mosulawi Assyrians that can speak Assyrian, but what I'm saying is from what I've seen, practically none of Muslawi Assyrians from the Syriac Orthodox/Catholic Church can speak it. If you ask any of them why they can't speak it they'd probably say something like "My great great... grandparents forgot how to speak it over time". That's the exact answer my Dad gave me and the same answer that other Muslawi's I've asked have given me. I don't understand how they could of just "forgotten" it over time when you have Assyrians from other churches that live in Mosul and in other cities as well that can speak it fine. What I'm trying to figure out is why is that they didn't just "forget it over time" and my ancestors and other Muslawi from the Syriac Orthodox and Catholic Churches did?
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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That's because Muslawi's are Assyrian. "Muslawi" is kind of like a tribe, just like how you have Tyaraye, Ankawaye, Jilwaye, etc.
I doubt this. The classical Assyrian tribes have always been Tyari, Baz, Jelu, Nochiya, Gawar, Tel Iskof, Al Qosh...etc

Muslawis are just Assyro-Chaldeans who migrated from the above tribes to Iraq cities, such as Baghdad, Mosul, Habbaniya and Kirkuk, among others.

There are Assyrians from Kirkuk who proudly call themselves "Kirkuknayeh", even though they are still (originally) from Hakkari - My baznaya neighbours for instance.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline SonOfAssyria

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I doubt this. The classical Assyrian tribes have always been Tyari, Baz, Jelu, Nochiya, Gawar, Tel Iskof, Al Qosh...etc

Muslawis are just Assyro-Chaldeans who migrated from the above tribes to Iraq cities, such as Baghdad, Mosul, Habbaniya and Kirkuk, among others.

There are Assyrians from Kirkuk who proudly call themselves "Kirkuknayeh", even though they are still (originally) from Hakkari - My baznaya neighbours for instance.

I think that my father's side and other Musulaye are originally from other villages and my great great.... grandparents could have fled during genocide or war.
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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I think that my father's side and other Musulaye are originally from other villages and my great great.... grandparents could have fled during genocide or war.
Yep. Virtually all Assyrians from Mosul, Kirkuk, Habbaniya, Baghdad, etc, originate from villages to the north (Hakkari, Barwar, Al Qosh and even Urmia).

I think those from Mosul are older inhabitants, hence the reason why they've forgotten Assyrian. Also, they usually tend to be Chaldeans (Catholic Assyrians).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline SonOfAssyria

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Yep. Virtually all Assyrians from Mosul, Kirkuk, Habbaniya, Baghdad, etc, originate from villages to the north (Hakkari, Barwar, Al Qosh and even Urmia).

I think those from Mosul are older inhabitants, hence the reason why they've forgotten Assyrian. Also, they usually tend to be Chaldeans (Catholic Assyrians).

There is actually a lot of Syriac Orthodox/ Catholic Assyrians in Mousl
"Their enemies had realized their national potential long before the Assyrians themselves. The enemy was not afraid of good farmers, good parents, good church-going parishioners...the enemy was afraid of Assyrians wrapped in nationhood." ~ Mount Semele, Ivan Kakovitch

 

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