Author Topic: Violence against Copts celebrated  (Read 715 times)

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Offline Etain

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Violence against Copts celebrated
« on: April 11, 2017, 04:05:46 PM »
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The bombing of the Copts, as well as many attacks on Copts in Egypt by Muslims over the years, are a great example of how Muslims cannot live in peace with Christians.  But they are also a great example of karma.  It’s a *****, and over the weekend, the ***** was Muslim.  And what goes around definitely comes around in the case of the Copts. In the case of the Copts versus the Muslims, I view it as I did the Iran-Iraq war and the larger feud between Shi’ite and Sunni Muslims. I wish it could go on forever and that both sides would lose.

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But he is not the first to incite Coptic violence against Jews.  In fact, the Copts were not only extremely anti-Semitic (as they continue to be), but they often led the Muslims in pogroms against the Jews of Egypt.  There are almost no Jews left in Egypt, and the Copts joined the Muslims in calling for the Jews’ expulsion.  Many Jewish homes and property were taken not by Muslims, but by Copts.

As in the case of many Christian groups in the Middle East, the Copts sided with Muslims in their persecution of the Jews.  And they bet on the wrong side.  Now that bet is coming back to bite them in the ass.  And you’ll see no tears or sympathy from me.  The Coptic Church was one of the most anti-Semitic churches in the Middle East and the most anti-Israel.  It’s not new.  And it hasn’t changed.


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And, therefore, I couldn’t care less about what the Muslims do to the Copts. Like I said, it’s about evil fighting evil. Let G-d sort it out. I refuse to pick a side in this pit bull fight.

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If you side with the Copts, it’s no different than siding with Muslims. It’s a “distinction” without a difference.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/31285/no-tears-for-egypts-coptic-christians/
Were you expecting something different?



Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 04:34:47 PM »
I don't expect heebs to have any sympathy for goyim like christians, I know where their priorities are I'm not gullible to think that they would care. Atleast they don't hit them with terrorist attacks like muslims do though.

Also I do find the irony pretty good. Yes lets side with the jews who are funding Kurds who are ethnically cleansing us, lol lets actually encourage our own cultural genocide. There is no win for christian minorities in the middle east if they pick their poison between those two. The Copts, Lebanese christians, Assyrians etc. should form alliance but how practical is it? Too spread out, oppressed, too far away from eachother etc.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 04:40:47 PM by Joe25 »

Offline Etain

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 04:56:15 PM »
I don't expect heebs to have any sympathy for goyim like christians, I know where their priorities are I'm not gullible to think that they would care. Atleast they don't hit them with terrorist attacks like muslims do though.

Also I do find the irony pretty good. Yes lets side with the jews who are funding Kurds who are ethnically cleansing us, lol lets actually encourage our own cultural genocide. There is no win for christian minorities in the middle east if they pick their poison between those two. The Copts, Lebanese christians, Assyrians etc. should form alliance but how practical is it? Too spread out, oppressed, too far away from eachother etc.
Indeed. It's important to remember there are no real allies. But too many casual observers think the Jews are.
An alliance between those groups would not work. the only real option is to keep the population up and pick out the sanest,most secular Muslims(the Syrian government, alawites). I understand problems could arise of course.

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 04:56:15 PM »

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 05:15:36 PM »
Indeed. It's important to remember there are no real allies. But too many casual observers think the Jews are.
An alliance between those groups would not work. the only real option is to keep the population up and pick out the sanest,most secular Muslims(the Syrian government, alawites). I understand problems could arise of course.

Most of us(those non-gullible) agree that some Shia sects are our best choices for the time being. During times of crisis you get the best picture of who is the most on your side. Fact is the shia have liberated christian areas, saved churches rung their bells after defeating terrorists etc. Israel has done squat but continue to fund the Kurds who continue to take over Assyrian lands. Lets still beg them though so a bunch of folks of european ancestry don't consider us of all people "anti-semitic". You can't make this up.

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 06:18:17 PM »
Muslims killing non Muslim and celebrating and Christians killing Muslims too and celebrating . What is the difference ? Just not to upset anyone let us say" it is the will of God" , no ?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 10:12:30 PM »
Just one Jewish bimbo who doesn't represent all Jews. I'm pretty sure that there are Christians (not even just Muslims) who gloat when Israelis or Jews are murdered. Sadly, these Christians do tend to be Assyrian.

I can find Buddhists, Hindus and people of many other belief systems who would say such peripheral things. At the end of the day, Muslims are the ones who come in masses and celebrate the deaths of Christians, Jews, etc. This isn't news.

Jews will always be allies. A few rotten-mouthed Jews wouldn't change my mind. Just the same way a few fundamental Christians in America wouldn't make me perceive Christianity to be in the same grounds of Islam.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 10:33:02 PM »
I don't know.

I was pro-Israel for a long time. I thought Israel was the last fortification against Islamic rule of the Middle East and I never subscribed to this 'Jews control the world' ideology because I thought it was ludicrous and just paranoid sentiment.

However, in light of recent events, I'm not so sure how I feel about the Jews. I've been listening to PartisanGirl a lot and she's staking the claim that Jews have been funding Al Nusra, which puts me on edge.

Whether Jewish support for such organisations is in attempt to pin Muslim against Muslim, I don't know. What I do know is that if such elusive Jewish activity was taking place, it's having negative ramifications for the Assyrian people.

@Neon How are Jews our allies? I'm not saying we're enemies, but what exactly have they done to gain our support? I can't find any evidence to suggest that they've benefited us either directly or inadvertently.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 11:14:11 PM »
How are Jews our allies? I'm not saying we're enemies, but what exactly have they done to gain our support? I can't find any evidence to suggest that they've benefited us either directly or inadvertently.
They're more allies than they are our enemies, if anything. But I meant in a future tense - If we have a nation, I can see us being allies. They're Semitic-speaking and they even sound similar to us. Armenians are next of kin. And speaking of Armenians, they also haven't aided us too. But of course, Israelis will always be the despised ones. ;)

I can understand why Israel hasn't intervened and helped us with ISIS. They're just afraid and very vulnerable as a nation - Perhaps their intervention will entail a way for ISIS to enter and ruin their country? They already have to manage with the Palestinian conflict. They are not a superpower nation anyway. They need assistance too. So let's give them a break. Not to mention, we are a minority within a minority in the Middle East. We are not conspicuous enough for them to benefit us.

I know you might bring up Shias for helping us and saving our people. But what they're doing is pretty understandable and justified. After all, Shias live in Iraq, and they will be obligated to defend their citizens from criminals. Not all Muslims support terrorists (and I think everybody knows this platitude). And many Muslims, especially those who are proud to defend their country, will fight Islamic terrorists (surprising? I think not). I'm pretty sure if Jews were living in myriads in Iraq and were, say, in Shias stead, they would be doing the same.

We have to look deeper in such matters - Jews haven't aided us because there are barely any Jews left in Iraq. Muslims will always "aid" us inadvertently (or not), because, well, a lot of Muslims exist in Iraq and live alongside of us. And they will defend their country, its people, its edifice, etc. Now does this mean that Islam is a more liberating religion than Judaism? Should we go and live in Iran or Pakistan as instead of Israel? :mrgreen:
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Etain

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 01:16:03 AM »
I am no longer pro Jewish or Pro Israel, let the Palestinians kill them.
MASHALLAH.
*kisses u*



Offline Etain

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 01:19:16 AM »
I don't know.

I was pro-Israel for a long time. I thought Israel was the last fortification against Islamic rule of the Middle East and I never subscribed to this 'Jews control the world' ideology because I thought it was ludicrous and just paranoid sentiment.

However, in light of recent events, I'm not so sure how I feel about the Jews. I've been listening to PartisanGirl a lot and she's staking the claim that Jews have been funding Al Nusra, which puts me on edge.

Whether Jewish support for such organisations is in attempt to pin Muslim against Muslim, I don't know. What I do know is that if such elusive Jewish activity was taking place, it's having negative ramifications for the Assyrian people.

@Neon How are Jews our allies? I'm not saying we're enemies, but what exactly have they done to gain our support? I can't find any evidence to suggest that they've benefited us either directly or inadvertently.
Maram,Partisangirl, is very good. I am quite a fan of her. She's been riled up since the airstrikes.




Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 02:03:00 AM »
MASHALLAH.
*kisses u*
He was being sarcastic. Lol.

I hope you were too, because you did (rightfully) get mad when he said that innocent Sunnis in Mosul should get bombed. So let's not be hypocrites. ;)
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Etain

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 03:15:43 AM »
He was being sarcastic. Lol.

I hope you were too, because you did (rightfully) get mad when he said that innocent Sunnis in Mosul should get bombed. So let's not be hypocrites. ;)
Yes. I am anti-violence. I just wanted to point out how this woman thinks.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 03:17:49 AM »
Yes. I am anti-violence. I just wanted to point out how this woman thinks.
I hope you are. Cos saying "mashallah" after someone condoning death for people is kinda inappropriate.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 07:40:48 PM »
who cares what Debbie says, she's a dumb kalebta who would be stupid enough to blame all Copts because Shenouda said a few anti-Jewish words. She makes it seem like Shenouda has the power to send hordes of Copts to attack Jews when Jews under Coptic rule lived 100x better than Jews under Muslim rule.

She also seems to ignore the idea that Muslims peer pressure and threaten Middle Eastern Christians into saying anti-Semitic crap or else risk alienation or harm...

In the Muslim Middle East, if you're pro-Israel then you better get ready to move there or you're in for a world of hurt.
you have the choice of being Pro-Israel or Pro-Staying-Alive.

She's also displaying a lesson not learned from WW2...
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Offline KingA

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 09:35:15 PM »
Most of us(those non-gullible) agree that some Shia sects are our best choices for the time being. During times of crisis you get the best picture of who is the most on your side. Fact is the shia have liberated christian areas, saved churches rung their bells after defeating terrorists etc. Israel has done squat but continue to fund the Kurds who continue to take over Assyrian lands. Lets still beg them though so a bunch of folks of european ancestry don't consider us of all people "anti-semitic". You can't make this up.


Did you hear what the head of Shiite Waqf said about Christians last week? I dont know how trustable Rudaw is, but if that is true, most of us are wrong about kindness and tolerance of the shiite muslims   :confused:

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/140520171

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 11:20:16 PM »
Did you hear what the head of Shiite Waqf said about Christians last week? I dont know how trustable Rudaw is, but if that is true, most of us are wrong about kindness and tolerance of the shiite muslims   :confused:

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/140520171

It's not surprise that Shiites would utter such things. They're still Muslim, and their ideology is straightforward. People should stop being naïve, especially Assyrians.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 12:01:18 AM »
Did you hear what the head of Shiite Waqf said about Christians last week? I dont know how trustable Rudaw is, but if that is true, most of us are wrong about kindness and tolerance of the shiite muslims   :confused:

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/140520171
It's not surprise that Shiites would utter such things. They're still Muslim, and their ideology is straightforward. People should stop being naïve, especially Assyrians.


actually, Shoebat says that's BS.

http://shoebat.com/2017/05/17/convert-to-islam-or-die-infidels-muslim-cleric-gives-ultimatum-to-iraqi-christians/

"This story seems to have first come out of Alaraby, which is a Middle Eastern News Network based in London and founded in 2014 as a “counter” to Al-Jazeera. Its founder is Azmi Bishara, a “Christian” from Israel with strong connections to the communist party and a host of other groups. What is of particular interest is that he is a direct supporter of the opposition to Syrian President Asad and helped to form the “National Coalition For Syrian Revolutionary And Opposition Forces.”"

The source of the news is from anti-Shi'a outlet.

Offline Etain

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 01:45:50 AM »


She also seems to ignore the idea that Muslims peer pressure and threaten Middle Eastern Christians into saying anti-Semitic crap or else risk alienation or harm...


She does indeed. But who's to say they aren't being genuine?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 02:13:58 AM »
She does indeed. But who's to say they aren't being genuine?
because it makes little sense for Copts to be anti-semitic outside of Muslim peer pressure...
Secondly, Debbie is making it seem like ALL of the Copts are anti-Semitic and stating that violence from Muslims is karma (for "hating" Jews) rather than the sheer fact that Muslims simply hate non-Muslims plain and simple.

Not to mention there's 1,000+ Copts living in Israel but that's none of my business...

Offline KingA

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 06:51:58 PM »
actually, Shoebat says that's BS.

http://shoebat.com/2017/05/17/convert-to-islam-or-die-infidels-muslim-cleric-gives-ultimatum-to-iraqi-christians/

"This story seems to have first come out of Alaraby, which is a Middle Eastern News Network based in London and founded in 2014 as a “counter” to Al-Jazeera. Its founder is Azmi Bishara, a “Christian” from Israel with strong connections to the communist party and a host of other groups. What is of particular interest is that he is a direct supporter of the opposition to Syrian President Asad and helped to form the “National Coalition For Syrian Revolutionary And Opposition Forces.”"

The source of the news is from anti-Shi'a outlet.


Check his speech:
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170517-shia-cleric-iraq-christians-infidels-who-must-convert-or-be-killed/


Offline KingA

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 04:55:42 PM »
Yea, he is Sunni, he's not Shi'a.

It could be!! but it is strange because he has very similar clothes as Iraqi and Iranian shi'a

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 05:55:04 PM »
It could be!! but it is strange because he has very similar clothes as Iraqi and Iranian shi'a

how? They dress similar...

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2017, 01:14:24 PM »
Jews will always be allies. A few rotten-mouthed Jews wouldn't change my mind. Just the same way a few fundamental Christians in America wouldn't make me perceive Christianity to be in the same grounds of Islam.

You have an agenda here to glorify the jews by questioning other legit allies like Armenians and others, asking for evidence and such, yet you have offered no evidence of Israel being our "allies" in any way. They are not, they are indirect enemies if we look at all the facts of the matter.

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They're more allies than they are our enemies, if anything. But I meant in a future tense - If we have a nation, I can see us being allies. They're Semitic-speaking and they even sound similar to us. Armenians are next of kin. And speaking of Armenians, they also haven't aided us too. But of course, Israelis will always be the despised ones. ;)

LOL great, they're semitic speaking. They sound similar to us. That's adorable. Doesn't make them allies for the same reason islamic semites aren't. We are not on the jewish radar at all because we're considered inferior goyim who worship(according to them) a fake messiah, and they consider our religion a vile anti-jewish one which is of course idiotic.

More on the Israeli funding of Kurds below.

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2017, 01:25:19 PM »
http://www.meforum.org/3838/israel-kurds

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One of the early Kurdish interlocutors was activist Ismet Sherif Vanly. In his memoirs, Vanly revealed that in 1964, when the Kurdish revolution was in dire straits, he suggested to Kurdish leader Mulla Mustafa Barzani that he contact Jerusalem for help. Upon Barzani's agreement, Vanly went to Israel (with the help of the head of the Iranian intelligence) where he met Prime Minister Levi Eshkol, as well as Shimon Peres, head of the Labor party. Following that visit, the Israeli government sent a permanent representative to Iraqi Kurdistan. The Israelis also attempted to arrange meetings for Vanly with U.S. officials, but the latter refused. According to Vanly, Ibrahim Ahmad, who later would split from Barzani's party, had at an earlier date made a secret visit to Israel.[22] The revelation about Ahmad is important because, in later years, Ahmad's faction leaked information about the secret relationship between the Barzanis and Israel in order to embarrass the Barzanis.

These ties, kept secret by both sides, reached their peak in the early years of the Baath in 1968-75. Barzani visited Israel secretly twice, in 1968 and 1973, meeting with high Israeli officials including the prime minister. Mustafa's sons Masoud and Idris also visited Israel. For their part, various Israeli officials frequented the Kurdish region. Some conspiracy theories put the number of Israelis present at the time in Kurdistan in the thousands. In fact, they did not exceed three or four.[23]


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These ties brought benefits to both partners. Jerusalem obtained intelligence as well as support for a few thousand Jews fleeing Baath Iraq. The Kurds received security and humanitarian aid as well as links to the outside world, especially the United States. The first official acknowledgment that Jerusalem had provided aid to the Kurds dates to September 29, 1980, when Prime Minister Menachem Begin disclosed that Israel had supported the Kurds "during their uprising against the Iraqis in 1965–1975" and that the United States was aware of the fact. Begin added that Israel had sent instructors and arms but not military units.[24]

Israeli aid was initially limited to human-itarian assistance such as the construction of a field hospital in 1966. It expanded gradually, eventually to include the supply of small arms and ammunition. Later, it encompassed more sophisticated equipment such as antitank and antiaircraft weapons. It also included training Kurds in Israel and Kurdistan.[25]


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One reliable source claimed that all training of Kurds was provided by Israel. Rafael Eytan, who visited Kurdistan in 1969 before he became Israel's chief of staff, stated that almost all of the Israeli trainers were paratroopers. Israelis also served as advisers. In fact, Eytan's visit served the same purpose. But it should be stressed that Israelis were never involved directly in combat and had no command role whatsoever. They also helped in activities such as propaganda campaigns in Europe, courses for Kurdish medics, and with the creation of schoolbooks in Kurdish. These ties were abruptly stopped in March 1975 following the Algiers agreement between Iraq and Iran that put an end to the Kurdish rebellion. But discrete relations were resumed a few years later and have continued for most of the time ever since.



As we can read here the Kurds who are ethnically cleansing Assyrians, have been helped by jews so much that both sides have tried their best to keep this a secret because it would make Kurds hated and considered traitors by all the islamists in the middle east.

Do the jews care about the consequences for Assyrians? Of course not. They have an agenda and don't care how it affects others, they wanted Kurds as allies and they got it. Meanwhile this will prevent our people from ever having a country again and surviving our culture, language and so on.

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2017, 01:26:28 PM »
Second argument is Israel backing the US(when the UN didn't) to invade Iraq in 03, beginning the Assyrian exodus from Iraq.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/02/iraq-war-israel-bush-saddam
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Pressure from Israel and the Lobby was not the only factor behind the decision to attack Iraq in March 2003, but it was critical. Some Americans believe that this was a war for oil, but there is hardly any direct evidence to support this claim. Instead, the war was motivated in good part by a desire to make Israel more secure. According to Philip Zelikow, a former member of the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, and now a counsellor to Condoleezza Rice, the "real threat" from Iraq was not a threat to the United States.

The "unstated threat" was the "threat against Israel", Zelikow told an audience at the University of Virginia in September 2002.


Again a case of them not even considering us or any other minorities, but their actions have disatrous effects on Assyrians.

Indirect enemies, indeed.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2017, 01:37:40 PM »
Second argument is Israel backing the US(when the UN didn't) to invade Iraq in 03, beginning the Assyrian exodus from Iraq.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/02/iraq-war-israel-bush-saddam
Again a case of them not even considering us or any other minorities, but their actions have disatrous effects on Assyrians.

Indirect enemies, indeed.


Here's the thing though joe, it was at that point in time where we should've grouped up and backed up one another but we didn't. We can blame Israel all day but it won't change the fact that Assyrians in Iraq that lived outside Assyria chose to leave instead of moving to Assyria. These Assyrians clearly had money too which they could've used to help build up our areas but decided not to.

I could say this is a result of living near Muslims who have the same selfish attitude but I can't change what happened. The only thing we can do is move on and learn from our mistakes. We're still alive, we're down but we're not out.

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2017, 01:43:41 PM »
Here's the thing though joe, it was at that point in time where we should've grouped up and backed up one another but we didn't. We can blame Israel all day but it won't change the fact that Assyrians in Iraq that lived outside Assyria chose to leave instead of moving to Assyria. These Assyrians clearly had money too which they could've used to help build up our areas but decided not to.

I could say this is a result of living near Muslims who have the same selfish attitude but I can't change what happened. The only thing we can do is move on and learn from our mistakes. We're still alive, we're down but we're not out.

This thread is zero'ing in on the negative Israeli part in our recent history though. Accepting our own faults is fine but it doesn't deflect from what others did. Furthermore you may be right but I never felt it was proper for us to critique our people living in the homelands surrounded by danger, it is easy for us to say things when we have always lived comfortably in the peaceful west.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2017, 07:09:49 PM »
This thread is zero'ing in on the negative Israeli part in our recent history though. Accepting our own faults is fine but it doesn't deflect from what others did. Furthermore you may be right but I never felt it was proper for us to critique our people living in the homelands surrounded by danger, it is easy for us to say things when we have always lived comfortably in the peaceful west.

true but we shouldn't not focus our energy on Israel. Again, we have to move on but remember. Forgive but never forget.

They live near danger, one must fortify. Secondly, pessimism permeates their minds. I told my uncle that in order to have a homeland, we need to fight for it. He replies saying "how can we fight almost 2 billion Muslims?" which I thought was a very dumb and ignorant thing for him to say. I didn't say that was dumb because I didn't want to disrespect him.

going back to the topic. I said before that Israel only cares that it has the possibility to survive. Israeli government relies entirely on the USA's funding and the USA uses Israel as its forward base to increase its influence in the Middle East against Russia.

Yea people say "jews own the world" but it's not that simple and it's not that complex. Israel was allowed creation because it gave the West a forward base to the Middle East in order to counter the increasing influence of the Soviet Union.

This is why Arabs and Palestinians view Israel and Jews as "colonists" even though there already were Jews (not as much compared to now) living in the land.

Israel's personal goal is to survive living around vast populations of hostile Muslims. The way I see it, Countries are like giant bodies of organisms and the people are its cells. Like organisms, every country's top priority is to survive if it can help it.

Israel's government won't care to help us unless we can benefit them in some way. Israeli people will very likely have sympathy for us but only Israel's government can act and, again, they won't act unless we can benefit them in some way.

If our people had a stronger presence in the homeland, maybe Israel's government would've considered us but we never exceeded more than 2M population size since the time of the Mongols...

Israel had a choice between two peoples who needed outside help and were not against Israel or its people: 1.5 Million Assyrians that are somewhat scattered throughout Iraq or 6-7 Million Kurds that mostly have 4-5 million in a concentrated area. The answer is obvious who to pick.

Israel chose Kurds for 3 reasons: to keep Saddam Hussein busy, to keep Iran busy, and to keep Turkey busy.

Turkey, with the rise of Islamism, has seen a sharp increase of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sentiment in the population. Iran is openly hostile to Israel itself, and Saddam Hussein was openly hostile to Israel as well.

By making Kurds stronger, especially the ones in Iraq, Israel could weaken all 3 nations so they wouldn't have the power projection to attack OR help the Palestinians in attacking Israel.

The Kurds of the KRG can also resupply and arm the PKK to deal with Turkey. Thus Kurds become a buffer state so as to be possible cannon fodder against Iran and Turkey.

Israel didn't arm us because 1. our population, though decently large sized, wasn't concentrated enough into one area, 2. we don't have a beef with Iran and we don't have an active force fighting against Turkey, 3. we were still recovering from the Assyrian genocide and Simele, and 4. Our christian nature concerning peace and forgiveness doesn't exactly make us threatening.

The idea of peace and forgiveness may work for civilized people like Europeans and Japanese folk but not against barbarian savages like Muslims. Muslims see peace and forgiveness as a weakness instead of realizing its purpose because they're too stupid.

Realistically, if Israel did help us and we chose to fight, we probably would not fight beyond the areas we held which meant we wouldn't be a valuable buffer state holding Iran and Turkey off.

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2017, 07:37:02 PM »
true but we shouldn't not focus our energy on Israel. Again, we have to move on but remember. Forgive but never forget.

They live near danger, one must fortify. Secondly, pessimism permeates their minds. I told my uncle that in order to have a homeland, we need to fight for it. He replies saying "how can we fight almost 2 billion Muslims?" which I thought was a very dumb and ignorant thing for him to say. I didn't say that was dumb because I didn't want to disrespect him.

going back to the topic. I said before that Israel only cares that it has the possibility to survive. Israeli government relies entirely on the USA's funding and the USA uses Israel as its forward base to increase its influence in the Middle East against Russia.

Yea people say "jews own the world" but it's not that simple and it's not that complex. Israel was allowed creation because it gave the West a forward base to the Middle East in order to counter the increasing influence of the Soviet Union.

This is why Arabs and Palestinians view Israel and Jews as "colonists" even though there already were Jews (not as much compared to now) living in the land.

Israel's personal goal is to survive living around vast populations of hostile Muslims. The way I see it, Countries are like giant bodies of organisms and the people are its cells. Like organisms, every country's top priority is to survive if it can help it.

Israel's government won't care to help us unless we can benefit them in some way. Israeli people will very likely have sympathy for us but only Israel's government can act and, again, they won't act unless we can benefit them in some way.

If our people had a stronger presence in the homeland, maybe Israel's government would've considered us but we never exceeded more than 2M population size since the time of the Mongols...

Israel had a choice between two peoples who needed outside help and were not against Israel or its people: 1.5 Million Assyrians that are somewhat scattered throughout Iraq or 6-7 Million Kurds that mostly have 4-5 million in a concentrated area. The answer is obvious who to pick.

Israel chose Kurds for 3 reasons: to keep Saddam Hussein busy, to keep Iran busy, and to keep Turkey busy.

Turkey, with the rise of Islamism, has seen a sharp increase of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sentiment in the population. Iran is openly hostile to Israel itself, and Saddam Hussein was openly hostile to Israel as well.

By making Kurds stronger, especially the ones in Iraq, Israel could weaken all 3 nations so they wouldn't have the power projection to attack OR help the Palestinians in attacking Israel.

The Kurds of the KRG can also resupply and arm the PKK to deal with Turkey. Thus Kurds become a buffer state so as to be possible cannon fodder against Iran and Turkey.

Israel didn't arm us because 1. our population, though decently large sized, wasn't concentrated enough into one area, 2. we don't have a beef with Iran and we don't have an active force fighting against Turkey, 3. we were still recovering from the Assyrian genocide and Simele, and 4. Our christian nature concerning peace and forgiveness doesn't exactly make us threatening.

The idea of peace and forgiveness may work for civilized people like Europeans and Japanese folk but not against barbarian savages like Muslims. Muslims see peace and forgiveness as a weakness instead of realizing its purpose because they're too stupid.

Realistically, if Israel did help us and we chose to fight, we probably would not fight beyond the areas we held which meant we wouldn't be a valuable buffer state holding Iran and Turkey off.

Decent arguments, a lot better than "come on they kinda sound like us and speak semitic". First off, you seem to believe they made a choice, that would mean acknowledgement. How do you know we were ever acknowledged like that by them? As you said we're a small minority there and not the only minorities. I don't think it ever came to 'Kurds or Assyrians'. I maintain that we're nowhere on their radar.

Secondly I disagree that they only want survival. They have gotten ensured suvival a long time ago with the billions or unlimited funds(including enough nukes to flatline over half the livable parts of the planet in a day) from the US since their start, at this point it is simply about power and greed(sure, most nations want the same) with no care or consideration for anyone who may get hurt by their actions.

The latter is my problem with them. I don't mind their country's existence or their fight for survival. It's the things that they do that directly affect Assyrians in every way. The Kurd-funding and support of the 03 Iraqi invasion alone spell it out pretty clearly. These are not events that have our best of interests in mind or a neutral stance. As it stands, more expansion of Israel's power, the more extinct Assyrians will become.

Wanting to become their allies would mean losing our identity, if we turned into Kurds tommorow we'd finally get a couple of shekels. No thanks.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 07:43:07 PM by Joe25 »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2017, 10:23:46 PM »
You have an agenda here to glorify the jews by questioning other legit allies like Armenians and others, asking for evidence and such, yet you have offered no evidence of Israel being our "allies" in any way. They are not, they are indirect enemies if we look at all the facts of the matter.
Why are you replying to my posts now?

My agenda is as obvious as the sky. I will defend Jews, even if they're not that perfect. No, there is no evidence of them being allies, but there's also no evidence of them being enemies. "Indirect enemies" is a really ingenuous and baseless reason. That won't make them bona fide enemies either way.

Quote
LOL great, they're semitic speaking. They sound similar to us. That's adorable. Doesn't make them allies for the same reason islamic semites aren't. We are not on the jewish radar at all because we're considered inferior goyim who worship(according to them) a fake messiah, and they consider our religion a vile anti-jewish one which is of course idiotic.
You're describing orthodox Jews who, in fact, do perceive us as such. I'm obviously speaking about the majority of the Jews, who tend to be fairly open-minded and rational about history and our relationship to them. You do realize that many Jews are secular and would refrain from using words such as "goyim" and see us as "inferior"?

Want an actual "adorable" reason? Christians believe in the Old Testament (you know, the Jewish book). Christians and Jews obviously have much closer ties. I wouldn't bring up Islamic Semites as they reject the bible, just the same way Christians reject their book. So, not a fair comparison.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Joe25

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2017, 11:26:15 AM »
Why are you replying to my posts now?

My agenda is as obvious as the sky. I will defend Jews, even if they're not that perfect. No, there is no evidence of them being allies, but there's also no evidence of them being enemies. "Indirect enemies" is a really ingenuous and baseless reason. That won't make them bona fide enemies either way.
You're describing orthodox Jews who, in fact, do perceive us as such. I'm obviously speaking about the majority of the Jews, who tend to be fairly open-minded and rational about history and our relationship to them. You do realize that many Jews are secular and would refrain from using words such as "goyim" and see us as "inferior"?

Want an actual "adorable" reason? Christians believe in the Old Testament (you know, the Jewish book). Christians and Jews obviously have much closer ties. I wouldn't bring up Islamic Semites as they reject the bible, just the same way Christians reject their book. So, not a fair comparison.

Why I'm replying? I see unfounded glorification of Israel who are our enemies and I call it out, what's so hard to understand. This isn't your safe space remember, you're not gonna decide who posts what here. I just posted a good amount of evidence above yet you still claim there's no evidence of Israel's misdeeds against Assyrians. I posted sources that confirm that Israel supported the war that tore us apart and they are responsible for the Kurds' growth in power and continued funding which is ethnically cleansing us. You ignored everything and still haven't provided any proof of the contrary. You said they speak semitic and you personally like them, therefor Assyrians should consider them allies. How compelling of an argument.

Also no, jews and muslims are more similar to eachother. Muhammad had a lot of interactions with jews, persian pagans and christians. He copied most of his religion from Judaism and Zoroastrianism to encourage them to convert after going to war with them. For the christians he merely accepted the existence of Jesus Christ but only considered him a normal prophet. Jews and muslims are far more similar as they adhere to Weak/Direct Monotheism(Christianity adheres to Weak/Indirect Monotheism) with their belief in one God, their circumcision of newborns, similar dietary restrictions, praying towards a direction, the symbol of the big stone etc et. Another subject where you're out of bounds.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Violence against Copts celebrated
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2017, 11:51:59 PM »
Why I'm replying? I see unfounded glorification of Israel who are our enemies and I call it out, what's so hard to understand. This isn't your safe space remember, you're not gonna decide who posts what here. I just posted a good amount of evidence above yet you still claim there's no evidence of Israel's misdeeds against Assyrians. I posted sources that confirm that Israel supported the war that tore us apart and they are responsible for the Kurds' growth in power and continued funding which is ethnically cleansing us. You ignored everything and still haven't provided any proof of the contrary. You said they speak semitic and you personally like them, therefor Assyrians should consider them allies. How compelling of an argument.
I am not denying their INDIRECT "misdeeds" against us. So they're supporting Kurds, perhaps for their own good (economy). Why is that such a bad thing? And what does that have to do with us? It is not in their intention to crap on us. Every country will have allies that us, as an ethnic group (or any other nationalities), will not be fond of. Let's not forget that Israel is a country and it will always "play the game" to gain advantages and benefits. America is an ally with Saudi Arabia, should we hate America for this? Perhaps not. They know how to have an alliance with a country to gain an advantage in their economic system. Last time I checked, Kurds, as much as we have hostility towards them, are still an ethnic group, not a terrorist organization. So it's not a crime if one country sees them as allies.

Quote
Also no, jews and muslims are more similar to eachother. Muhammad had a lot of interactions with jews, persian pagans and christians. He copied most of his religion from Judaism and Zoroastrianism to encourage them to convert after going to war with them. For the christians he merely accepted the existence of Jesus Christ but only considered him a normal prophet. Jews and muslims are far more similar as they adhere to Weak/Direct Monotheism(Christianity adheres to Weak/Indirect Monotheism) with their belief in one God, their circumcision of newborns, similar dietary restrictions, praying towards a direction, the symbol of the big stone etc et. Another subject where you're out of bounds.
True. But that wasn't my point. What I mean is that Christians (at least many of them) still adhere to the teachings of the Old Testament (namely Psalms and Proverbs), whereas Muslims would even dare own a copy of the Old Testament.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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