Author Topic: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?  (Read 4618 times)

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Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2015, 02:32:22 AM »
Are you an atheist?
She's an American Protestant.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline ins001

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2015, 02:24:00 PM »

Offline Etain

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 09:17:07 PM »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2016, 06:06:20 AM »
That's nuts. My family is devout Christian and my mom would lose it if I were to say I was an atheist.
I thought you came from a very liberal Christian family?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2016, 09:00:48 AM »
I usually don't see a big difference between Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians and Greeks (although Italians may usually be lighter in some instances to me). Yes, they are distinctive to Middle Eastern people, namely Gulf Arabs (like Kuwaitis, Saudis, Iraqis), but they still do look similar to Assyrian, Syrians & Lebanese people (usually those that don't have Arab admixture, from the north). Not all Middle Eastern people look the same btw - Look at a typical Qatari and a Lebanese person. You'll see that the difference between the two would be a race apart.

Kurds, Persian and Afghan do have a similar look. They look like Indians/Pakistanis with light skin, if that makes sense. I also wouldn't classify them as Mediterranean.

Hi,

This is not entirely true. Especially when it comes to Kurds, because Kurds from different regions don't even look the same. I'll explain it to you.
There are different waves of migration you have to consider if you want to understand the Iranic look, in particular the Kurdish look. You also have to consider geography.

Before the proto-Iranian tribes arrived in the region from Central Asia, the Persian homeland was inhabited by the native people of Iran, starting from the borders of Pakistan and approaching the Zagros mountains. These people would have looked like the common Pakistani. Essentially Persians are a mix of the natives and Indo-Iranian tribes. When you look at Iranians towards Central Asia you will find that people are more Iranic as the local population was a variance of the Indo-European people, and the Iranic expansion started from there.

Now, as for Kurds, it gets more complicated. Kurds occupy different regions, including Mesopotamia, Anatolia and the Zagros mountains, this means that the invading Indo-European tribes would have conquered and mixed with three different stocks of people. In Southern Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) the percentage of J2 which is the non-Semite Mesopotamian gene is higher than among Northern Kurds (Turkey) - Additionally, the J1 semite variance is higher among Iraqi Arabs, in particular the Southerm Marsh Iraqi Arabs.

Southern Kurds also have a higher % of R1A than northern Kurds because the Alans settled along the Southern/Easter border (Iraq/Iran) of Kurdistan. This region is known as Ardalan, which means ground of the Alans, which is strange to me because usually Iranians use "Stan" i.e. land of.

I am from the Ardalan area (hence my name) and there is the region of Kurdistan in which you will find the most Kurds with blond hair or blue eyes. By contrast, Erbil has some of the darkest Kurds.

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2016, 06:23:28 PM »
Hi,

This is not entirely true. Especially when it comes to Kurds, because Kurds from different regions don't even look the same. I'll explain it to you.
There are different waves of migration you have to consider if you want to understand the Iranic look, in particular the Kurdish look. You also have to consider geography.

Before the proto-Iranian tribes arrived in the region from Central Asia, the Persian homeland was inhabited by the native people of Iran, starting from the borders of Pakistan and approaching the Zagros mountains. These people would have looked like the common Pakistani. Essentially Persians are a mix of the natives and Indo-Iranian tribes. When you look at Iranians towards Central Asia you will find that people are more Iranic as the local population was a variance of the Indo-European people, and the Iranic expansion started from there.

Now, as for Kurds, it gets more complicated. Kurds occupy different regions, including Mesopotamia, Anatolia and the Zagros mountains, this means that the invading Indo-European tribes would have conquered and mixed with three different stocks of people. In Southern Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) the percentage of J2 which is the non-Semite Mesopotamian gene is higher than among Northern Kurds (Turkey) - Additionally, the J1 semite variance is higher among Iraqi Arabs, in particular the Southerm Marsh Iraqi Arabs.

Southern Kurds also have a higher % of R1A than northern Kurds because the Alans settled along the Southern/Easter border (Iraq/Iran) of Kurdistan. This region is known as Ardalan, which means ground of the Alans, which is strange to me because usually Iranians use "Stan" i.e. land of.

I am from the Ardalan area (hence my name) and there is the region of Kurdistan in which you will find the most Kurds with blond hair or blue eyes. By contrast, Erbil has some of the darkest Kurds.

Based on how you've explained the name, "Ardalan" sounds like it is an Assyrian name. It's interesting that "ara" means "land" and "d" means "of" in Assyrian (Syriac-Aramaic). The suffixing "a" in "ar-a" was originally introduced as a definite article though it now only signifies quantity. Essentially, "ar" is the  base word for "land".

Also, it is common to cut off the suffixed "a" at the end of a noun to connect it to the following "d". For example, "beta d" (house of) is usually pronounced as "betid". "Ara d" can likewise also be said as (and usually would be pronounced as) "arid".

"Ara" can also mean ground or earth.

Btw, in Akkadian, "ur" seems to signify a similar meaning to"ar".
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 06:39:05 PM by Sharukinu »
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Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2016, 07:13:10 PM »
Based on how you've explained the name, "Ardalan" sounds like it is an Assyrian name. It's interesting that "ara" means "land" and "d" means "of" in Assyrian (Syriac-Aramaic). The suffixing "a" in "ar-a" was originally introduced as a definite article though it now only signifies quantity. Essentially, "ar" is the  base word for "land".

Also, it is common to cut off the suffixed "a" at the end of a noun to connect it to the following "d". For example, "beta d" (house of) is usually pronounced as "betid". "Ara d" can likewise also be said as (and usually would be pronounced as) "arid".

"Ara" can also mean ground or earth.

Btw, in Akkadian, "ur" seems to signify a similar meaning to"ar".

Hi,

Ard in Kurdish means ground of - which is difference to stan which means land of. I don't know what the origins of ard is, but surely Kurdish has some Sumerian and Aramaic loan words. Ardalan, which is also a very common Kurdish name, simply means ground of the Alans. The Alans were an Eastern Iranic people close to modern day Russia. The Alans migrated in various phases. The Alans migrated in patterns to Kurdistan and Europe, which is why the name Alan can be found in Europe and Kurdistan.

Additionally Ard has two meanings as it could be used for flour too.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2016, 10:07:38 PM »
Hi,

This is not entirely true. Especially when it comes to Kurds, because Kurds from different regions don't even look the same. I'll explain it to you.
There are different waves of migration you have to consider if you want to understand the Iranic look, in particular the Kurdish look. You also have to consider geography.
I guess that's true. Some Iraqi Kurds look no different to us and other Med peoples. Whilst Iranian Kurds do have a "distinct" look to them, as if they can be South (or Central) Asian.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2016, 04:08:07 AM »
Hi,

Ard in Kurdish means ground of - which is difference to stan which means land of. I don't know what the origins of ard is, but surely Kurdish has some Sumerian and Aramaic loan words. Ardalan, which is also a very common Kurdish name, simply means ground of the Alans. The Alans were an Eastern Iranic people close to modern day Russia. The Alans migrated in various phases. The Alans migrated in patterns to Kurdistan and Europe, which is why the name Alan can be found in Europe and Kurdistan.

Additionally Ard has two meanings as it could be used for flour too.

Given it's usage here, at least the "ard" part seems to almost certainty be an Assyrian Aramaic loan word/phrase since "Ar(a)" and "D" mean "land" "of" respectively.

The word "Ar(a)" is so Aramaic is can be found in the very root word for Aramaic which is also the name of the Aramaean homeland (or of any Aramaean state), "Aram".
"Ar-"=land,ground,earth
"ram" =high
Therefore "Aram" means "highlands".
"D" (of) is also of Aramaic (Assyrian) origin.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 10:48:14 AM by Sharukinu »
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Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2016, 06:50:39 PM »
Well, you have to realize some things, is that we Assyrians, don't need a state to survive, we don't need to sold our own to Daesh to grab some land, we don't have to genocide multiple peoples and try to erase their history to prove that we exist and barely get autonomous regions.
1400 years that you try to kill us, but in EVERY university in the world, you'll find a manuscript written by our forefathers, churches, monasteries, temples,  stones  recording our past: From Ashur, to Nineveh, Gozarto, Tur'Abdin, Hakkari, Urmia, Arbila, heck even in Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, Qatar and so on.  It's been 3000+ years that our people write, from History, Mathematics to Medicine, Physics and so on.
Match your words when you talk about us, learn about us, don't insult us and don't compare us to Arabs or other semites, we're different peoples with our own history.
Before trying to teach us History, go and learn (Try, might be difficult for some reasons after all...) about yourselves, about I don't know: Sorani Kurds, Kurmanji Kurds, Zazaki Kurds, Ezidis Kurds, Gorani or whatever Iranian minority who adopted in recent years the name Kurd and suddenly spoke a "dialect of Kurdish".

That is not true. It is not a "modern concept"

Ābu Ḥanīfah Āḥmad ibn Dawūd Dīnawarī, who was an Islamic Golden Age polymath, astronomer, agriculturist, botanist, metallurgist, geographer, mathematician, and historian. He wrote many books on science, but one of his prominent books was Ansâb al-Akrâd, which means ancestory of the Kurds.

For many years people thought he was an Arab or Persian (mostly due to Persian academic circles claiming his Persian origin) even though he was born near Kermanshan (which is historically the heart of the Kurdish nation). Just like people used to think Saladin was an Arab, where as in fact, he was a Kurd. The fact that Abu Hanifah wrote a book on the ancestory of Kurds around 1200 years ago would suggest that nearly everything Assyrians tend to claim with regards to Kurdish history is simply NOT true. Your constant battle to introduce us as recent invaders simply doesn't agree with history, given that many historic figures from modern day Iraq were Kurds.

Thanks,
Alan.

Offline Shahin

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2016, 07:02:09 PM »
That is not true. It is not a "modern concept"

Ābu Ḥanīfah Āḥmad ibn Dawūd Dīnawarī, who was an Islamic Golden Age polymath, astronomer, agriculturist, botanist, metallurgist, geographer, mathematician, and historian. He wrote many books on science, but one of his prominent books was Ansâb al-Akrâd, which means ancestory of the Kurds.

For many years people thought he was an Arab or Persian (mostly due to Persian academic circles claiming his Persian origin) even though he was born near Kermanshan (which is historically the heart of the Kurdish nation). Just like people used to think Saladin was an Arab, where as in fact, he was a Kurd. The fact that Abu Hanifah wrote a book on the ancestory of Kurds around 1200 years ago would suggest that nearly everything Assyrians tend to claim with regards to Kurdish history is simply NOT true. Your constant battle to introduce us as recent invaders simply doesn't agree with history, given that many historic figures from modern day Iraq were Kurds.

Thanks,
Alan.

In my post, I didn't say Kurds are "recent invaders", reread my post, I didn't use the word invaders. You said it, not me, not us, but you.
I didn't even said that "Kurd" is a "modern concept", I don't even think about it as "modern" or a "modern concept", you again said it, not me, but you.
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Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2016, 07:21:46 PM »
In my post, I didn't say Kurds are "recent invaders", reread my post, I didn't use the word invaders. You said it, not me, not us, but you.
I didn't even said that "Kurd" is a "modern concept", I don't even think about it as "modern" or a "modern concept", you again said it, not me, but you.

Hi,

You said "whatever Iranian minority who adopted in recent years the name Kurd and suddenly spoke a "dialect of Kurdish"." in "recent years" now where I live, that would suggest a "modern concept"

As for invaders, when I said you, I didn't you personally, but as a collective group. Given your statement above, I don't think this is far from the truth.

Anyway, given the cultural similarities, the loan words exchanged by both sides, the interaction between Kurds and Armenians, it is safe to say that we have been here just as long as you have. Maybe not always as the Iranic people we are today, but our pre-Iranic ancestors are natives, so, please stop trying to play the historical card at every point because I am getting tired of it. You're not going to reach a viable solution by hurling insults.

Thanks,
Alan.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2016, 07:50:57 AM »
That is not true. It is not a "modern concept"

Ābu Ḥanīfah Āḥmad ibn Dawūd Dīnawarī, who was an Islamic Golden Age polymath, astronomer, agriculturist, botanist, metallurgist, geographer, mathematician, and historian. He wrote many books on science, but one of his prominent books was Ansâb al-Akrâd, which means ancestory of the Kurds.

For many years people thought he was an Arab or Persian (mostly due to Persian academic circles claiming his Persian origin) even though he was born near Kermanshan (which is historically the heart of the Kurdish nation). Just like people used to think Saladin was an Arab, where as in fact, he was a Kurd. The fact that Abu Hanifah wrote a book on the ancestory of Kurds around 1200 years ago would suggest that nearly everything Assyrians tend to claim with regards to Kurdish history is simply NOT true. Your constant battle to introduce us as recent invaders simply doesn't agree with history, given that many historic figures from modern day Iraq were Kurds.

Thanks,
Alan.

sounds about correct. the first known writing mentioning Kurds go all the way back to the Sassanid Persians with King Ardashir.

Thing is though, he used Kurd in the context of "nomad" rather then a people. The real question is when did "Kurd" stop meaning nomad and started meaning a people?

it's similar to how Assyrian originally meant "Ashurian" from the city of Ashur but the meaning of the name changed when the empire expanded and then fell.


The perception of Kurds as "modern invaders" comes from the fact that a vast amount of the Kurds were migrated from what is now Iran and Azerbaijan into Mesopotamia and Armenia by the Turkish Ottomans.

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2016, 09:23:01 AM »
sounds about correct. the first known writing mentioning Kurds go all the way back to the Sassanid Persians with King Ardashir.

Thing is though, he used Kurd in the context of "nomad" rather then a people. The real question is when did "Kurd" stop meaning nomad and started meaning a people?

it's similar to how Assyrian originally meant "Ashurian" from the city of Ashur but the meaning of the name changed when the empire expanded and then fell.


The perception of Kurds as "modern invaders" comes from the fact that a vast amount of the Kurds were migrated from what is now Iran and Azerbaijan into Mesopotamia and Armenia by the Turkish Ottomans.
Ezdi Kurds are 'pure' Kurds. Of al Kurds, Ezdi Kurds have most Iranian DNA (Caucaso-Gedrosian) in them. We pre-date Islam and even Christianity in the region. As far as we know, Ezdi Kurds have always been living in Shingal Mountains, Nineveh area and Shexan (Lalish + Dohuk).

It has been said that Lalish is thousands of years old and that it pre-dates Turkish Ottomans and Persians by thousands of years.

Ezdi Kurds even fought many wars against the Turks and the Turks committed many genocides on Kurds. Last time it was 100 years ago, when the Turks also committed a genocide on Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians and Ezdi Kurds..

Before Islam, most Kurds in North, West and SouthWest Kurdistan were Ezdi. We can't be invaders, because we are the NATIVE people of our homeland. We (Ezdi Kurds) pre-date anybody in the region, even the Assyrians...


Today is the Ezdi New Year. According to us it is the year 6766.

Happy New Year!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 09:41:16 AM by Ezidi Kurd »

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2016, 09:28:05 AM »
Given it's usage here, at least the "ard" part seems to almost certainty be an Assyrian Aramaic loan word/phrase since "Ar(a)" and "D" mean "land" "of" respectively.

The word "Ar(a)" is so Aramaic is can be found in the very root word for Aramaic which is also the name of the Aramaean homeland (or of any Aramaean state), "Aram".
"Ar-"=land,ground,earth
"ram" =high
Therefore "Aram" means "highlands".
"D" (of) is also of Aramaic (Assyrian) origin.
Why has my reaction on this post been deleted?

Kurdish word 'erd' has nothing to do with the Assyrians.

I wrote that Kurdish word for earth, 'erd' or 'ard' is similar to English 'earth', German 'Erde' and Dutch 'aarde'.

Kurdish = erd
German = Erde
Dutch = aarde
English = earth
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 09:35:52 AM by Ezidi Kurd »

Offline atourina

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2016, 10:32:09 AM »
Why has my reaction on this post been deleted?


Your posts, along with everyone elses, were deleted because you guys are completely destroying this thread.  The topic is called "Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?".  What you guys are posting has nothing to do with the subject. If you want to bicker back and fourth, I suggest private messaging one another and NOT continuing to hijack this thread :thankyou:


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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2016, 10:33:52 AM »
Your posts, along with everyone elses, were deleted because you guys are completely destroying this thread.  The topic is called "Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?".  What you guys are posting has nothing to do with the subject. If you want to bicker back and fourth, I suggest private messaging one another and NOT continuing to hijack this thread :thankyou:


Thanks Atourina, sorry this topic didn't catch my attention until today.

Everyone, respect the rules and stop fighting. You can discuss without fighting.

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Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2016, 10:35:02 AM »
Everything what I wrote about Assyrian is true. Kurds can't trust Assyrians or any other non-Kurdish ethnicity.
I know very much how Assyrian think.

But I share the same enemies wit the Assyrians: the Sunni Muslims! I share their hatred toward the MUSLIMS!


Muslims are enemies of the Assyrians and the Ezdi Kurds.


I LOVE Chaldeans though...


They know very well what I think about the PKK. I'm here on this site longer than 1 year.


Without PKK there would be no Kurds. PKK = REAL Kurdish people. PKK = Kurdistan. Power to PKK, power to the people.

Kurds can't trust Assyrians??? :mfr_lol: :loool: are you like trying to be ironic and reverse what should be 'Assyrians can (NEVER) trust Kurds'

Come on, you are a Ezidi and should know better: if it wasn't for Kurds betraying you guys in 2014, your women and children wouldn't have been enslaved, raped and killed. And here is the shocker: the Kurds didn't just run away out of fear from ISIS, it was a strategic decision, all to gain some lands at the end, at the expense of the Ezidis (and Assyrians of course)

If I was you, I would be proud of being Ezidi, and that is it, no need to be kissing the @ss of those who betrayed you guys.



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Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2016, 11:08:18 AM »
Kurds can't trust Assyrians??? :mfr_lol: :loool: are you like trying to be ironic and reverse what should be 'Assyrians can (NEVER) trust Kurds'

Come on, you are a Ezidi and should know better: if it wasn't for Kurds betraying you guys in 2014, your women and children wouldn't have been enslaved, raped and killed. And here is the shocker: the Kurds didn't just run away out of fear from ISIS, it was a strategic decision, all to gain some lands at the end, at the expense of the Ezidis (and Assyrians of course)

If I was you, I would be proud of being Ezidi, and that is it, no need to be kissing the @ss of those who betrayed you guys.



ASHOOR

Sunni Muslim Daesh terrorist Barzani the Islamist betrayed the Ezdi. He wants to be part of Islam Nation. He has nothing to do with the Kurds and Kurdistan. We will get him and his children.

REAL Kurds should stick together. Together we are strong and undefeatable. Together, the REAL Kurds will defeat all our enemies.

PKK are the REAL Kurds and liberated Shingal from the Muslims. PKK are the majority of Kurds. PKK is a pan-Kurdish and protects not only Barzanistan, but the whole Kurdistan. That's why I'm saying that PKK = Kurdistan, PKK = REAL Kurds.


Many Northern & Eastern non-Ezdi Kurds died for Ezdixan and are buried on our beloved holy mountain.

" I went to Şerfedin Tomb and then Martyr Berxwedan and Martyr Dilgeş Cemeteries. When I looked the name of martyries, I realized that most of them are from North Kurdistan. Many people, who came from Amed, Van, Batman and Rojhilat to liberate Shengal, fell martyr. "

http://www.jinha.com.tr/en/ALL-NEWS/content/view/50788

The Ezdi Kurds are the REAL Kurds. We speak a Kurdish language, our religion is native Kurdish, since it is also in Kurdish. And we are the living evidence that the Kurds are native to Kurdistan.

Without the Ezdi Kurds, Kurds don't exist. That's why people try do destory the Ezdi Kurd. But that will never happen. The Ezdi Kurds are becoming stronger. We have liberated our region, We rule our region and the Ezdi Kurds have their army now. Everything will be fine from now on, so don't worry my friend.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 11:12:44 AM by Ezidi Kurd »

Offline ASHOOR

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2016, 11:40:42 AM »
Sunni Muslim Daesh terrorist Barzani the Islamist betrayed the Ezdi. He wants to be part of Islam Nation. He has nothing to do with the Kurds and Kurdistan. We will get him and his children.

REAL Kurds should stick together. Together we are strong and undefeatable. Together, the REAL Kurds will defeat all our enemies.

PKK are the REAL Kurds and liberated Shingal from the Muslims. PKK are the majority of Kurds. PKK is a pan-Kurdish and protects not only Barzanistan, but the whole Kurdistan. That's why I'm saying that PKK = Kurdistan, PKK = REAL Kurds.


Many Northern & Eastern non-Ezdi Kurds died for Ezdixan and are buried on our beloved holy mountain.

" I went to Şerfedin Tomb and then Martyr Berxwedan and Martyr Dilgeş Cemeteries. When I looked the name of martyries, I realized that most of them are from North Kurdistan. Many people, who came from Amed, Van, Batman and Rojhilat to liberate Shengal, fell martyr. "

http://www.jinha.com.tr/en/ALL-NEWS/content/view/50788

The Ezdi Kurds are the REAL Kurds. We speak a Kurdish language, our religion is native Kurdish, since it is also in Kurdish. And we are the living evidence that the Kurds are native to Kurdistan.

Without the Ezdi Kurds, Kurds don't exist. That's why people try do destory the Ezdi Kurd. But that will never happen. The Ezdi Kurds are becoming stronger. We have liberated our region, We rule our region and the Ezdi Kurds have their army now. Everything will be fine from now on, so don't worry my friend.



Are you like writing a poem or just in fantasy land? There is about 6.5 million Kurds in Iraq, the majority of whom support Barazani, and you are telling they don't exist or are not real Kurds? Well how about this, and as much as we all hate to see that, Kurds in Iraq could declare independence before Kurds in Turkey could ever dream of doing that.

You say Kurds don't trust Assyrians and now you are blasting Kurds in Iraq? I am confused...

Secondly, if you mean Kurds in Turkey don't trust Assyrians, that doesn't make sense whatsoever, because it is not like Assyrians in Turkey have bothered or killed from Kurds. If anything, Assyrians fought alongside PKK in the past.


Get your facts straight and stop being confused. You made some sense in the past (in threads from last year) but not much in this.


ASHOOR
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Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2016, 12:05:23 PM »

Are you like writing a poem or just in fantasy land? There is about 6.5 million Kurds in Iraq, the majority of whom support Barazani, and you are telling they don't exist or are not real Kurds? Well how about this, and as much as we all hate to see that, Kurds in Iraq could declare independence before Kurds in Turkey could ever dream of doing that.

You say Kurds don't trust Assyrians and now you are blasting Kurds in Iraq? I am confused...

Secondly, if you mean Kurds in Turkey don't trust Assyrians, that doesn't make sense whatsoever, because it is not like Assyrians in Turkey have bothered or killed from Kurds. If anything, Assyrians fought alongside PKK in the past.


Get your facts straight and stop being confused. You made some sense in the past (in threads from last year) but not much in this.


ASHOOR
What about Kurds in Rojava? Don't they exist? There are also more than 700000 Ezdi Kurds in Iraq. More than 400000 from Shingal and up to 400000 in Dohuk, Lalish, Shexan area. Don't the exist?

As long Barzani is alive there will be no independent South Kurdistan in Iraq. He is a corrupt traitor. He is a Sunni Muslims and friend of Erdogan. They are pro-Sunni Chaliphate. Sunni Muslim and Erdogan are against Kurds. If South Kurdistan wil become independent Barzani will lose his power. Rojava, western Kurdistan, could declare independent Kurdistan earlier than Bashur. Why? Because Rojava is ruled by the real Kurds and not Islamic traitors like Barzani. Kurds in Rojava (Syria) are really fighting against Daesh, Turkey and other Sunni Muslim Islamists, like the Ezdi Kurds in Shingal and Kurds in Northern Kurdistan

Shingal (and Ezdixan in general) is not part Barzanistan (KRG). It's outside that region. Before August 3 2014 it was under the Barzani control, but Sunni Muslim Barzani betrayed Shingal.

After that PKK came to Shingal and the Ezdi found their own army. There is no place for Barzani in Shingal. After the betrayal of Shingal, Barznai lost that region forever. Shingal is and will be always Islam-FREE. No mosques will be tolerated in Shingal.

Shingal will not be part of Barzanistan (or KRG), but part of the Great Kurdistan. It will be it's own region within Kurdistan. After the GENOCIDE on the Ezdi Kurds the whole world have seen that Ezdi Kurds need their own region and that the Ezdi Kurds need to protect themselves from the Muslims.

Ezdi Kurds = PKK. Without PKK there would be a much bigger Genocide in Shingal. 10000 Ezdi Kurds got killed or taken prison. Without the PKK it would be maybe 10 times more. PKK saved the Ezdi Kurds. And who are the PKK? Kurds!


Both Kurds and Assyrians don't trust each other. All of them have hidden agenda. REAL Kurds (PKK) and Assyrians should work together, because Kurds are the only hope for the Assyrians. When Kurdistan will become free, Assyria will become free too. Without free Kurdistan, Assyrians are doomed! Assyrians need Kurds much more, than vice versa. There are 50 million Kurds, Kurds don't nee anybody. Or do you think that if Kurds don't exist that Assyrians could defeat Sunni Muslims?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:33:21 PM by Ezidi Kurd »

Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2016, 06:06:30 PM »
sounds about correct. the first known writing mentioning Kurds go all the way back to the Sassanid Persians with King Ardashir.

Thing is though, he used Kurd in the context of "nomad" rather then a people. The real question is when did "Kurd" stop meaning nomad and started meaning a people?

it's similar to how Assyrian originally meant "Ashurian" from the city of Ashur but the meaning of the name changed when the empire expanded and then fell.


The perception of Kurds as "modern invaders" comes from the fact that a vast amount of the Kurds were migrated from what is now Iran and Azerbaijan into Mesopotamia and Armenia by the Turkish Ottomans.

Hi,

Kurd does not mean Nomad. All the Iranic tribes were nomads, because the proto-Iranic expansion into the M.E. was conducted by nomadic Iranic tribes from Central Asia. This means that, everyone, including the Persians were at some points Nomads. The Iranic tribes added no real value apart from being military superior to the locals, as they were a warrior cast race, where as the locals were already beyond that point in evolution.

Kurd simply means those from the mountains, now, the better question to ask is, when did Kurds evolve into a sole Iranic people when in the past Kurds included Iranics and Semite people - although, the Jewish (Semite) Kurds still exist.

Iranic Kurds are split, as I said before, into Median and Parthian components. The Kurmanji (Kur-Magi) or son of the Magis and Hawrami/Guranis (the Parthians). Remember that the Persians were a vasal state of the Medes, and it was only after a royal unification and the betrayel from the Persian side that the Medes collapsed as an entity. After that, the nationalist Mede tribes, in particular the Magis, continued to look for a different identity to the now dominant Persians, so over time, they became Kurds.

Additionally, before the Mongols arrived in the area, Kurds were slowely taking over Iran. In fact, Historians say that if it wasn't for the Mongols, maybe Kurds will be leading Iran today.

As for being recent invaders, that simply isn't true! how can you say that Kurds moved to Mesopotamia during the Ottoman times when leading Kurdish figures and dyansties were present before them?

Thanks,
Alan 

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2016, 07:11:16 PM »
Hi,

Kurd does not mean Nomad. All the Iranic tribes were nomads, because the proto-Iranic expansion into the M.E. was conducted by nomadic Iranic tribes from Central Asia. This means that, everyone, including the Persians were at some points Nomads. The Iranic tribes added no real value apart from being military superior to the locals, as they were a warrior cast race, where as the locals were already beyond that point in evolution.

Kurd simply means those from the mountains, now, the better question to ask is, when did Kurds evolve into a sole Iranic people when in the past Kurds included Iranics and Semite people - although, the Jewish (Semite) Kurds still exist.

Iranic Kurds are split, as I said before, into Median and Parthian components. The Kurmanji (Kur-Magi) or son of the Magis and Hawrami/Guranis (the Parthians). Remember that the Persians were a vasal state of the Medes, and it was only after a royal unification and the betrayel from the Persian side that the Medes collapsed as an entity. After that, the nationalist Mede tribes, in particular the Magis, continued to look for a different identity to the now dominant Persians, so over time, they became Kurds.

Additionally, before the Mongols arrived in the area, Kurds were slowely taking over Iran. In fact, Historians say that if it wasn't for the Mongols, maybe Kurds will be leading Iran today.

As for being recent invaders, that simply isn't true! how can you say that Kurds moved to Mesopotamia during the Ottoman times when leading Kurdish figures and dyansties were present before them?

Thanks,
Alan 

I never said Kurd meant nomad, I said the letter was using it in the sense of "nomad" rather than a distinct people. Here's the full writing.

"In a letter Ardashir I received from his foe, Ardavan V"

"You've bitten off more than you can chew
and you have brought death to yourself.
O son of a Kurd, raised in the tents of the Kurds,
who gave you permission to put a crown on your head?"


According to James Boris (don't get mad at me, contact Mr. Boris about this info), the word 'Kurd' first became an ethnic identity in the 12th and 13th century aka the 1100s and the 1200s.

James Boris might be wrong because there's writings by Assyrian bishops writing about Kurds in the 900s and 1000s.

Here's a source for that info -> James, Boris. (2006). Uses and Values of the Term Kurd in Arabic Medieval Literary Sources. Seminar at the American University of Beirut, pp. 6-7.


"Kurd simply means those from the mountains, now, the better question to ask is, when did Kurds evolve into a sole Iranic people when in the past Kurds included Iranics and Semite people - although, the Jewish (Semite) Kurds still exist. "

So Kurds are a mix of Iranians and Assyrians? The only Semites that would've been near the Zagros would've been Assyrians or Arabs that migrated to Assyria.

"Additionally, before the Mongols arrived in the area, Kurds were slowely taking over Iran. In fact, Historians say that if it wasn't for the Mongols, maybe Kurds will be leading Iran today. "

 I read that the Mongols barely affected Kurds because of their nomadic status, if there was trouble, they could just do hit and runs and run away as they didn't have a permanent settlement like Assyrians and Iranians did. You can ignore this since I forgot the source that said this info.


"the nationalist Mede tribes, in particular the Magis, continued to look for a different identity to the now dominant Persians, so over time, they became Kurds. "

Nationalism didn't exist until the late 1800s so this really sounds like conjecture, I require a source plz!


"As for being recent invaders, that simply isn't true! how can you say that Kurds moved to Mesopotamia during the Ottoman times when leading Kurdish figures and dyansties were present before them? "

I never said Kurds were recent invaders... Let me give a better context.

The Battle of Chaldiran occurred between the Sunni Muslim Ottomans and the Shi'a Safavid Persians. Ottomans recruited the Sunni Kurds because the Shi'a Persians oppressed and persecuted them for being Sunni.

Kurds joined in this battle with the Ottoman achieving victory. The Ottomans reward Kurds by migrating them into northern Mesopotamia from Northwest Iran and Azerbaijan...

Yes, Azerbaijan originally was Kurdish but the migration of Kurds by the Ottomans allowed Azeri Turks to move there...

Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2016, 07:28:58 PM »
I never said Kurd meant nomad, I said the letter was using it in the sense of "nomad" rather than a distinct people. Here's the full writing.

"In a letter Ardashir I received from his foe, Ardavan V"

"You've bitten off more than you can chew
and you have brought death to yourself.
O son of a Kurd, raised in the tents of the Kurds,
who gave you permission to put a crown on your head?"

This is a simple error in translation. Ardashir was a Kurd himself, hence the text you posted "in a letter Ardashir I received from his foe" in which he calls Ardashir a son of  kurd, rasied in the tents of the Kurds. This isn't to say that Kurds were nomads, but that he was from Nomadic Tribe, because at the time, Kurds had Nomad and non-Nomad tribes. I wouldn't be surpised if this was meant to be insult (i.e. refer to a low-class Kurdish tribe) even though Aradashir was not from a Nomad Kurdish tribe.

By contrast, Saladins ancestors were Ezidis from Modern day Armenia. They convereted to Islam when they arrived in Tirkir. Saladins initial army were majority Kurdish, and his generals and right hand men were Kurds.

Also, Saladin paid Kurds in his army, twice the rate he paid Arabs from Egypt for example, because he stated that they Arabs did not make good soldiers.

Quote
According to James Boris (don't get mad at me, contact Mr. Boris about this info), the word 'Kurd' first became an ethnic identity in the 12th and 13th century aka the 1100s and the 1200s.

James Boris might be wrong because there's writings by Assyrian bishops writing about Kurds in the 900s and 1000s.

Here's a source for that info -> James, Boris. (2006). Uses and Values of the Term Kurd in Arabic Medieval Literary Sources. Seminar at the American University of Beirut, pp. 6-7.

Different Historians have different views. Now a days many Historians have a different view. This can NOT be true, and I already told you, because a Kurdish Muslim scholar already spoke about the ancestory of the Kurds, and wrote about about it prior to this date.

Quote
So Kurds are a mix of Iranians and Assyrians? The only Semites that would've been near the Zagros would've been Assyrians or Arabs that migrated to Assyria.

I will not put an ethinic name to it, because even prior to the Assyrians people existed in the region. Kurds are simply the outcome of thousands of years of integration.

Quote
I read that the Mongols barely affected Kurds because of their nomadic status, if there was trouble, they could just do hit and runs and run away as they didn't have a permanent settlement like Assyrians and Iranians did. You can ignore this since I forgot the source that said this info.

I will post the links to that later. Kurds already took over much of North-Western Iran before the Mongols arrived.

Quote
Nationalism didn't exist until the late 1800s so this really sounds like conjecture, I require a source plz!

You're thinking of Nationalism in modern nation state regard, but "nationalism" (which refers to ones defence of identity) existed prior to that, especially in the M.E. Off course it didn't exist in Europe because back they Europeans were dancing around fires and painted blue.

I never said Kurds were recent invaders... Let me give a better context.
Quote
The Battle of Chaldiran occurred between the Sunni Muslim Ottomans and the Shi'a Safavid Persians. Ottomans recruited the Sunni Kurds because the Shi'a Persians oppressed and persecuted them for being Sunni.

Kurds joined in this battle with the Ottoman achieving victory. The Ottomans reward Kurds by migrating them into northern Mesopotamia from Northwest Iran and Azerbaijan...

Yes, Azerbaijan originally was Kurdish but the migration of Kurds by the Ottomans allowed Azeri Turks to move there...

The Kurds and Ottoman Turks had an agreement in which Kurds were laregly autonomous, in fact, many European countries were conquered by Kurdish armies and not Turkish ones. For example, you will find many Hungarians with the second name "Kurdi"

Azerbaijan would have been part of Kurdistan had it not been Turkified, that is true. They were also Median tribes, but there was no such exchange! the Azeris were turkified with the rest of Central Asia.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2016, 07:33:47 PM »
This is a simple error in translation. Ardashir was a Kurd himself, hence the text you posted "in a letter Ardashir I received from his foe" in which he calls Ardashir a son of  kurd, rasied in the tents of the Kurds. This isn't to say that Kurds were nomads, but that he was from Nomadic Tribe, because at the time, Kurds had Nomad and non-Nomad tribes. I wouldn't be surpised if this was meant to be insult (i.e. refer to a low-class Kurdish tribe) even though Aradashir was not from a Nomad Kurdish tribe.

By contrast, Saladins ancestors were Ezidis from Modern day Armenia. They convereted to Islam when they arrived in Tirkir. Saladins initial army were majority Kurdish, and his generals and right hand men were Kurds.

Also, Saladin paid Kurds in his army, twice the rate he paid Arabs from Egypt for example, because he stated that they Arabs did not make good soldiers.

Different Historians have different views. Now a days many Historians have a different view. This can NOT be true, and I already told you, because a Kurdish Muslim scholar already spoke about the ancestory of the Kurds, and wrote about about it prior to this date.

I will not put an ethinic name to it, because even prior to the Assyrians people existed in the region. Kurds are simply the outcome of thousands of years of integration.

I will post the links to that later. Kurds already took over much of North-Western Iran before the Mongols arrived.

You're thinking of Nationalism in modern nation state regard, but "nationalism" (which refers to ones defence of identity) existed prior to that, especially in the M.E. Off course it didn't exist in Europe because back they Europeans were dancing around fires and painted blue.

I never said Kurds were recent invaders... Let me give a better context.
The Kurds and Ottoman Turks had an agreement in which Kurds were laregly autonomous, in fact, many European countries were conquered by Kurdish armies and not Turkish ones. For example, you will find many Hungarians with the second name "Kurdi"

Azerbaijan would have been part of Kurdistan had it not been Turkified, that is true. They were also Median tribes, but there was no such exchange! the Azeris were turkified with the rest of Central Asia.


Considering almost all of what you said conflicts with my history books and my contacts with the historians and professors of the University of Chicago. I'm afraid I have no choice but you blacklist you as another biased Middle Eastern writer.

You and those guys are the exact reason why I never read or listen to history according to Middle Eastern writers or historians.

The lecture is either biased, lies, conjecture, projection, or a mixture of all four.

I'm sticking to Western historians and archaeologists...

Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2016, 07:37:44 PM »
Considering almost all of what you said conflicts with my history books and my contacts with the historians and professors of the University of Chicago. I'm afraid I have no choice but you blacklist you as another biased Middle Eastern writer.

You and those guys are the exact reason why I never read or listen to history according to Middle Eastern writers or historians.

The lecture is either biased, lies, conjecture, projection, or a mixture of all four.

I'm sticking to Western historians and archaeologists...

You're free to believe in what ever you wish. I am not qouting M.E. historians.

Additionally, I am not a Historian, I am an Engineer, and while I find history interesting, I don't particularly care for it much because at the end of the day

"History is not written by he who was right, but he who won"

Just remember, that today we are writing History, and, many lies and proganada of today will be considered fact in a few centutries.

Offline Anid

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2016, 04:00:26 AM »
You're free to believe in what ever you wish. I am not qouting M.E. historians.

Additionally, I am not a Historian, I am an Engineer, and while I find history interesting, I don't particularly care for it much because at the end of the day

"History is not written by he who was right, but he who won"

Just remember, that today we are writing History, and, many lies and proganada of today will be considered fact in a few centutries.
How do we know what is true and what isn't?

Offline alan1

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2016, 07:20:03 AM »
How do we know what is true and what isn't?

We will never be able to know the full truth, but the extend to which you know the truth depends on your ability to critically analyse things.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2017, 04:14:14 AM »
Can somebody please delete all the above posts that hijacked this thread?

@Atourina, I still see these posts. What did you delete?

__________________________________________________________________

Does anyone find it flattering when they're mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 07:21:35 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2017, 06:48:15 AM »
Can somebody please delete all the above posts that hijacked this thread?

@Atourina, I still see these posts. What did you delete?

__________________________________________________________________

Does anyone find it flattered when they're mistaken for another ethnicity?

The other day some kid called me Italian - felt pretty good, not gonna lie.

Plus, Assyrian isn't usually guessed for someone's ethnicity and I'd rather be mistaken for European than Arab, which is usually the case anyway.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2017, 07:25:01 AM »
The other day some kid called me Italian - felt pretty good, not gonna lie.

Plus, Assyrian isn't usually guessed for someone's ethnicity and I'd rather be mistaken for European than Arab, which is usually the case anyway.
Yeah, Italian is really flattering. I like it too. :)

It depends on the Arab ethnicity. I get Lebanese oftentimes and I like that - Lebanese men are really handsome. So I take that as a compliment.

P.S. Other Assyrians usually can tell that I'm Assyrian. But foreigners, especially Europeans or Asians, barely tell that I'm even Middle Eastern.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2017, 07:32:00 AM »
I don't hate looking 'Assyrian', don't get me wrong but problem is, I can't grow those nice majestic beards and stuff.

Maybe it'll reflect with me as I age.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Cascade

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2017, 07:39:57 AM »
I don't hate looking 'Assyrian', don't get me wrong but problem is, I can't grow those nice majestic beards and stuff.

Maybe it'll reflect with me as I age.
Yeah, same here. It's just genes, even though my dad and uncles can grow good beards. So I don't know. Could be a recessive trait. Lol.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Dalale

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Re: Do you ever get mistaken for another ethnicity?
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2017, 10:08:52 PM »
I've been asked if I was Italian, Romanian, Spanish, or Greek.  I always say I'm 100 % Assyrian!  Alqosh/Zerineh/Mardin mix :) ..

 

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