Author Topic: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..  (Read 336 times)

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Offline J-ROK

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REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« on: May 06, 2017, 11:45:00 PM »
For the life of me I can't help it, I was born with it, I should have taken up martial arts so I could break bricks with my head, but I chose hockey, I play the game with an open mind, but once I take my equipment off, I'm reesha d keepa all over again. I'm so stubborn I need an intervention. Hehe.



Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 03:28:45 AM »
Reesha'd Keepa? Lol mut keepa?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline J-ROK

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 03:59:41 AM »
mut keepa? Mikh dan kepeh gu oopra

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 03:59:41 AM »

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 04:35:16 PM »
it's called "ܫܩܝܦܐ" shqeefa.

What you have is shqeefutha.

Offline J-ROK

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 10:25:19 PM »
Sqeefutha yanni mo? Lol

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 10:29:25 PM »
Sqeefutha yanni mo? Lol
stubbornness

Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2017, 10:54:43 PM »
stubbornness
Just call it "riqiyoota". That's what stubbornness is in Assyrian and 99% of us use that word.
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Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2017, 02:15:26 AM »
Just call it "riqiyoota". That's what stubbornness is in Assyrian and 99% of us use that word.

"riqiyoota" is possibly foreign. my dictionary does not show it at all. I even checked the synonyms for stubborn. Nothing!

Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2017, 04:33:23 AM »
"riqiyoota" is possibly foreign. my dictionary does not show it at all. I even checked the synonyms for stubborn. Nothing!
I checked every Arabic synonym for "stubbornness" and I couldn't find "riqqy". I doubt it's Kurdish, Kurdish or Persian as "riqqy" has an emphatic Q sound (which is native to Semitic languages). I checked their dictionary anyway and I didn't see "riqqy".

Maybe it's a recently invented Assyrian word like "jureh".
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 01:08:49 PM »
I checked every Arabic synonym for "stubbornness" and I couldn't find "riqqy". I doubt it's Kurdish, Kurdish or Persian as "riqqy" has an emphatic Q sound (which is native to Semitic languages). I checked their dictionary anyway and I didn't see "riqqy".

Maybe it's a recently invented Assyrian word like "jureh".


Kurdish also has "q" sound.

this requires intense research!

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 02:05:39 AM »
Just call it "riqiyoota". That's what stubbornness is in Assyrian and 99% of us use that word.


It's not stubbornes, it's self-importance, the state of being a cry baby, annoyingness, ego, a bother etc.
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=29311&language=id

There's an Aramaic word that's mentioned in the New Testament as "raqa/raca" (or something like that) but they debate what Jesus exactly meant when he said it. They usually interpret it as something like "fool" or "vacuously one" - and it's not hard to see the connection to riqiyāna, riqiyūta, riqi etc. The words are probably authentic Aramaic but more info is needed.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:11:44 AM by Sharukinu »
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Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2017, 04:28:02 AM »
It's not stubbornes, it's self-importance, the state of being a cry baby, annoyingness, ego, a bother etc.
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=29311&language=id

There's an Aramaic word that's mentioned in the New Testament as "raqa/raca" (or something like that) but they debate what Jesus exactly meant when he said it. They usually interpret it as something like "fool" or "vacuously one" - and it's not hard to see the connection to riqiyāna, riqiyūta, riqi etc. The words are probably authentic Aramaic but more info is needed.

Yes, but we use riqqi for stubbornness nowadays. Its meaning has changed or evolved.

For an annoying person we say "masqedan(t)a".
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 04:48:19 AM »
Yes, but we use riqqi for stubbornness nowadays. Its meaning has changed or evolved.

For an annoying person we say "masqedan(t)a".

Not really. The dictionary definition quite accurately reflects modern usage. Furthermore, it's often used in a patronising way just as the definition implies. Besides, you wouldn't call someone a "riqiāna" just because they arn't willing to change their mind. But, if you are a cry baby or annoying, you can expect your parents to call you "riqi/riqiāna".

Masqidāna does mean annoying so there is an overlap in meaning between these words.
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Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 05:14:06 AM »
Besides, you wouldn't call someone a "riqiāna" just because they arn't willing to change their mind. But, if you are a cry baby or annoying, you can expect your parents to call you "riqi/riqiāna".
But we do.

We purely use riqqiyana for a stubborn or obstinate person, old or young. We also use it for children who are irritatingly adamant and insistent. I can confidently say that so many Assyrians around me use the term for stubborn people (rather than for annoying people), regardless of their age. Sure, its meaning is originally "irritating" or whatever, but we do not use it in that context now. It will be really incongruous to call someone "rabet riqqiyan(t)a" if they're, say, crying over their ex. It will sound so out of place and ridiculous.

Even the English word can be used in a patronizing way btw ("you're so stubborn man" - that doesn't sound too nice IMO).

Not sure about you, but we say "la duq riqqi mini", which means "don't be stubborn with me". Literally, "duq" means "hold". When you're stubborn, you are "holding" on to your unchangeable, tight opinion. It's rather clear and self-explanatory, really.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 07:01:23 AM »
But we do.

We purely use riqqiyana for a stubborn or obstinate person, old or young. We also use it for children who are irritatingly adamant and insistent. I can confidently say that so many Assyrians around me use the term for stubborn people (rather than for annoying people), regardless of their age. Sure, its meaning is originally "irritating" or whatever, but we do not use it in that context now. It will be really incongruous to call someone "rabet riqqiyan(t)a" if they're, say, crying over their ex. It will sound so out of place and ridiculous.

Even the English word can be used in a patronizing way btw ("you're so stubborn man" - that doesn't sound too nice IMO).

Not sure about you, but we say "la duq riqqi mini", which means "don't be stubborn with me". Literally, "duq" means "hold". When you're stubborn, you are "holding" on to your unchangeable, tight opinion. It's rather clear and self-explanatory, really.

You need to look for the common denominator in every application of a sense of a word to find it's meaning. Riqiyāna is always quite demeaning and patronising -"stubborn" doesn't have to bear that connotation.

A cry baby is not literally someone who cries but someone who whines/complains childishly. That's why it's teenagers/youth that are most often called riqiyāne. When someone's being annoying or complaining, they are often so because they are stubborn which would explain the confusion. The dictionary definition fits any context I can think of but "stubborn" doesn't fit all -they have to be annoying to be called "riqi" -"importunate" is the closest word to stubborn that accurately describes what "riqi" means.

"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!". This expression is almost always said with great anger or irritation which would be apt in light of the actual listed definition of "riqi" and "riqiāna".

Bear in mind, "stubborn" simply means "[of someone:] unwilling to yield or, fixed/set in ones opinions, beliefs etc" -that is not an accurate representation of "riqi". "Being annoying or childish through one's stubborness, protest or persistence" is obviously a far more accurate and expected definition, and it also just happens to be what the dictionary pointed out in the link I shared in my second last post :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 07:02:38 AM by Sharukinu »
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2017, 07:23:08 AM »
Here's a simple authentic word listed in the dictionary and meaning "stubborn": "qurra".
It's from the Aramaic root Q-R-R which is about coldness.
http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=12607&language=id
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Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2017, 09:13:55 PM »
You need to look for the common denominator in every application of a sense of a word to find it's meaning. Riqiyāna is always quite demeaning and patronising -"stubborn" doesn't have to bear that connotation.

A cry baby is not literally someone who cries but someone who whines/complains childishly. That's why it's teenagers/youth that are most often called riqiyāne. When someone's being annoying or complaining, they are often so because they are stubborn which would explain the confusion. The dictionary definition fits any context I can think of but "stubborn" doesn't fit all -they have to be annoying to be called "riqi" -"importunate" is the closest word to stubborn that accurately describes what "riqi" means.

"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!". This expression is almost always said with great anger or irritation which would be apt in light of the actual listed definition of "riqi" and "riqiāna".

Bear in mind, "stubborn" simply means "[of someone:] unwilling to yield or, fixed/set in ones opinions, beliefs etc" -that is not an accurate representation of "riqi". "Being annoying or childish through one's stubborness, protest or persistence" is obviously a far more accurate and expected definition, and it also just happens to be what the dictionary pointed out in the link I shared in my second last post :)
I won't argue about the root of that word or its actual meaning. "Riqi" is what it is - "annoying, crybaby, bothersome". And yes, the original meaning of "riqi" is not that similar to "stubborn". But, I assure you that modern day Assyrians do use it for a stubborn person. Ask your folks and come back to me. It evolved to be that way, since perhaps many of us retained from using sqeefutha, or forgot about it. So riqqi became its substitute. Ever thought of that?

Oh, look up the synonyms of "importunate". The word "stubborn" is usually listed. So maybe modern Assyrians took the "importunate" part for granted.

P.S. Didn't you say that Assyrian words evolve and that the language is constantly evolving? Well, here you go. ;)
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2017, 10:41:45 PM »
I won't argue about the root of that word or its actual meaning. "Riqi" is what it is - "annoying, crybaby, bothersome". And yes, the original meaning of "riqi" is not that similar to "stubborn". But, I assure you that modern day Assyrians do use it for a stubborn person. Ask your folks and come back to me. It evolved to be that way, since perhaps many of us retained from using sqeefutha, or forgot about it. So riqqi became its substitute. Ever thought of that?

Oh, look up the synonyms of "importunate". The word "stubborn" is usually listed. So maybe modern Assyrians took the "importunate" part for granted.

P.S. Didn't you say that Assyrian words evolve and that the language is constantly evolving? Well, here you go. ;)
Thesauruses list synonyms. Synonyms can be identical or just similar terms. Terms can be synonyms while they have other very different senses. "Select" can be deemed a synonym for "vote" but if you start using them interchangeably you will have many problems ahead of you.

Every single time you want to say "importunate" or "cry babyish" in Assyrian, you can say "riqi". The same can't be said of "stubborn" which can be used interchangeably with a word like "qurra".

I've said over and over that "Riqi" doesn't mean "stubborn" according to modern usage and the dictionary definition. "Inportunate" and "stubborn" arn't the same. The most typical sense of "importunate" is to be "annoying through one's persistence" -that is not what stubborn means but that's exactly what the dictionary meant when it used the word "importunate" alongside "annoying", "cry baby" etc. The reason why it lists all those words under one sense of the word's definition is because it's trying to get you to understand the common denominator between them all and "stubborn" is innacurate as such. You can't call someone "riqi" if they are being stubborn but not annoying. You are overlooking distinctions that the dictionary didn't miss.

Just to be clear again: this is referring to the modern usage of the word as well as the dictionary.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 10:44:05 PM by Sharukinu »
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Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2017, 01:13:16 AM »
Thesauruses list synonyms. Synonyms can be identical or just similar terms. Terms can be synonyms while they have other very different senses. "Select" can be deemed a synonym for "vote" but if you start using them interchangeably you will have many problems ahead of you.
But then there are always synonyms that virtually have the same meaning. But anyway, the English language isn't the topic here.

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Every single time you want to say "importunate" or "cry babyish" in Assyrian, you can say "riqi". The same can't be said of "stubborn" which can be used interchangeably with a word like "qurra".
Perhaps you can, doesn't mean you cannot use riqqi for a stubborn person (in which we do). 

No Assyrian alive today even uses qurra (at least, I have yet to hear one). I always hear "riqqi" for a stubborn person. My family, friends and nearly every Assyrian around me uses it for a stubborn person. What's your millet? Maybe it's a millet thing. Because I can't fathom how you're denying this.

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I've said over and over that "Riqi" doesn't mean "stubborn" according to modern usage and the dictionary definition. "Inportunate" and "stubborn" arn't the same. The most typical sense of "importunate" is to be "annoying through one's persistence" -that is not what stubborn means but that's exactly what the dictionary meant when it used the word "importunate" alongside "annoying", "cry baby" etc. The reason why it lists all those words under one sense of the word's definition is because it's trying to get you to understand the common denominator between them all and "stubborn" is innacurate as such. You can't call someone "riqi" if they are being stubborn but not annoying. You are overlooking distinctions that the dictionary didn't miss.

Now whatever importunate exactly means, it has nothing to do with how we use the modern Assyrian word. Why bring up the meaning in the Syriac dictionary again? I already acknowledge its initial meaning. So please, leave it out. As I'm speaking of the modern usage of it. "Riqqi" is used for a stubborn person in the modern Assyrian language - That's what I'm trying to tell you. Whether there is a patronizing tone or not in Assyrian, that's not the point. If you're stubborn, you are "riqqiyana". Simple as that. Also, I did tell you that "stubborn" in English can be used in a condescending matter. Surely you should know this.

Again, "la duq riqi" easily transliterates as "stop holding on to your stubborn ways". Even in English, "don't hold babyish from me" sounds silly. You don't tell someone to stop "holding" onto their annoyance, but you can tell them to stop holding to their stubborn thoughts. We Assyrians are not stupid. There's a reason for "duq" ("hold") that comes before "riqqi". Btw, for overly clingy and insisting people we call them "shiyaneh", I.e. "Raba sheyanit nasha" or "basa shi beyee".

The Assyrian language evolved, for better or for worse. I thought you'd understand what I'm trying to say. Now you're reminding me of our friend Mzurnaci, who is a such purist about Syriac/Assyrian.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2017, 12:19:55 PM »
But then there are always synonyms that virtually have the same meaning. But anyway, the English language isn't the topic here.
Perhaps you can, doesn't mean you cannot use riqqi for a stubborn person (in which we do). 

This shows that you don't know what you're talking about when you said they were synonyms.

No Assyrian alive today even uses qurra (at least, I have yet to hear one). I always hear "riqqi" for a stubborn person. My family, friends and nearly every Assyrian around me uses it for a stubborn person. What's your millet? Maybe it's a millet thing. Because I can't fathom how you're denying this.

This isn't true. You're trying to connect the meaning of "riqi" to an English word you're familiar with. It doesn't mean stubborn. The dictionary accurately described its modern usage among East Assyrians in general.


Now whatever importunate exactly means, it has nothing to do with how we use the modern Assyrian word.

It has everything to do with the word because that's what it means. "Being annoying through one's persistence" (importunate) or "being cry babyish" is what "riqi" means.

If you're stubborn, you are "riqqiyana". Simple as that.

Wrong. It's about being importunate or cry babyish in a vexing way.

Also, I did tell you that "stubborn" in English can be used in a condescending matter. Surely you should know this.

Who said it can't be? I urge you to read more carefully: "Riqiyāna is always quite demeaning and patronising"


Again, "la duq riqi" easily transliterates as "stop holding on to your stubborn ways".

First of all, "la duq riqi" doesn't transliterate into anything -it is a transliteration and a poor one at that. And it doesn't mean "stop holding on to your stubborn ways" not literally nor figuratively.

Even in English, "don't hold babyish from me" sounds silly.

A hypocritical and foolish argument. Foolish because expressions aren't to be taken literally; hypocritical because "don't hold stubborn from me" also sounds just as silly.

You need to pay more attention to what's being written.

"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!".

You don't tell someone to stop "holding" onto their annoyance, but you can tell them to stop holding to their stubborn thoughts.

That's not what the words are saying. Riqi doesn't mean "stubborn thoughts" nor "annoyance". I have no idea how you jumped to that but let's not make this a case of 2 people holding 3 opinions.

We Assyrians are not stupid.

If you won't spare me the paradox, spare me the appeal to emotion.

There's a reason for "duq" ("hold") that comes before "riqqi".

What's that reason?
"Don't hold stubborn with me" vs "don't hold importunate/cry babyish with me" - no syntactic difference between the two so I don't see your point. I think that you have to be constantly inaccurately defining these words in various ways in your mind to be coming up with the points you are making.


The Assyrian language evolved, for better or for worse.

Yes, you know I argued in favour of this point very recently.

I thought you'd understand what I'm trying to say. Now you're reminding me of our friend Mzurnaci, who is a such purist about Syriac/Assyrian.

What you're saying is an inaccurate representation of modern usage as well as the dictionary definition.

You continuously misrepresent what I say. I debated Mrzurnaci in favour of the fact that our language has naturally evolved to include certain phonemes and I see no reason in getting rid of them purely on the basis that they weren't there at some more distant point in the past. My contention with what you're saying is totally not analogous to that. What you are saying is simply incorrect and being argued by an uninformed opinion whereas I saw Mrzurnacis views as not ideal despite being pushed by an informed opinion.

I really don't care about you disagreeing with me even when you're obviously wrong but I am deeply troubled when you mislead others, especially when you have no idea what you're talking about and wherever people are prone to confusion.
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Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2017, 05:28:11 AM »
This shows that you don't know what you're talking about when you said they were synonyms.
So the dictionary is wrong? Check your thesaurus. "Stubborn" is a synonym of "importunate". But again, why should this matter? We're speaking about the Assyrian terms here.

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This isn't true. You're trying to connect the meaning of "riqi" to an English word you're familiar with. It doesn't mean stubborn. The dictionary accurately described its modern usage among East Assyrians in general.
What me? I told you, every Assyrian uses "riqqi" for a stubborn person. I don't care about the dictionary meaning. No Assyrian does, frankly. We all use it for a stubborn, obstinate or adamant person (or whatever the word is for a person who doesn't change their opinion). Honestly, it's like me telling you that the sky is blue and the grass is green.

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It has everything to do with the word because that's what it means. "Being annoying through one's persistence" (importunate) or "being cry babyish" is what "riqi" means.
Not in the modern Assyrian context. When you "persist", you're still technically stubborn. Assyrians generally use "riqqi" for a stubborn behaviour. Not sure what the hell are you arguing about here.

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Wrong. It's about being importunate or cry babyish in a vexing way.
Might as well call me 'wrong' when I tell you that grass is green. Go ask your Assyrian folks or anybody who speaks Assyrian, and they'll tell you what "riqqi" means. The ironic thing is that now you're being riqqiyana.

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Who said it can't be? I urge you to read more carefully: "Riqiyāna is always quite demeaning and patronising"
I said "stubborn" can be condescending. Whether "riqqi" is demeaning or not is besides my point. At the end of the day, "riqqi" is used for a stubborn person. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Telling me to read carefully wouldn't make you "win" this argument. Quit straying away from the topic.

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First of all, "la duq riqi" doesn't transliterate into anything -it is a transliteration and a poor one at that. And it doesn't mean "stop holding on to your stubborn ways" not literally nor figuratively.
It does. You just lack imagination. You know very well that "duq" is there because you're "dwaqa" something, meaning your stubbornness. That's why we don't implement the word "duq" for anger, annoyance, sadness.  I'm amazed someone of your knowledge can't see something so clearly. Just be a bit more practical and you'll get all this.
 
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A hypocritical and foolish argument. Foolish because expressions aren't to be taken literally; hypocritical because "don't hold stubborn from me" also sounds just as silly.
Not as foolish as someone who disregards a commonly used word's meaning. Learn how to write it please; the example is "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts". Tolkien has a line similar to this in one of his Middle Earth books.

Again, why are you bringing in the English language? Because you have no credible argument? Whether you like it or not, Assyrians call stubborn people "riqqiyaneh". Not sure why you're vexed by this fact. I'm still waiting for you to ask your fellow Assyrian what "stubborn" is in Assyrian.

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You need to pay more attention to what's being written.
You need to pay attention to your fellow Assyrians. Such a shame that you've had your ears closed in the past 20 years, or whatever your age is.

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"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!".
What a hypocritical reply. You just said these English translations sound silly. And yours sounds even more ridiculous - What the hell is, "don't hold annoying/cry babyish"? Utter gibberish at best. I can say with confidence that "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts with me" still sounds much more graspable.

Now enough of these lousy transliterations. "La duq riqi mini" plainly means "don't be stubborn with me". In a sense, it can also mean "don't argue with me". I have come across Assyrians who substitute it for "argue". Just accept that "riqqi" is a word with multiple definitions in the modern Assyrian tongue. It's not that hard.

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That's not what the words are saying. Riqi doesn't mean "stubborn thoughts" nor "annoyance". I have no idea how you jumped to that but let's not make this a case of 2 people holding 3 opinions.
Yep, Riqqi does not mean 'stubborn thoughts'. Also, grass is not green. Feces don't stink. And Michael Jackson is alive.

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If you won't spare me the paradox, spare me the appeal to emotion.
But you, of course, will not appeal to the 3 million Assyrians who actually use the word that way. So much for your "Assyrianism". But carry on...

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What's that reason?
"Don't hold stubborn with me" vs "don't hold importunate/cry babyish with me" - no syntactic difference between the two so I don't see your point. I think that you have to be constantly inaccurately defining these words in various ways in your mind to be coming up with the points you are making.
You're either deliberately putting words in my mouth or you severely lack basic comprehension skills. For the millionth time, the English example is "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts with me", which, syntactically, still makes more intelligible sense than your feeble example(s).

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Yes, you know I argued in favour of this point very recently.
Aha! And so you have. Now why not just accept the fact that "riqqi" has evolved to have a slightly different meaning nowadays?

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What you're saying is an inaccurate representation of modern usage as well as the dictionary definition.
Snap! You were right. I was wrong all this time. As were our fellow 3 million Assyrians like me. Can't believe that we were this stupid!

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I really don't care about you disagreeing with me even when you're obviously wrong but I am deeply troubled when you mislead others, especially when you have no idea what you're talking about and wherever people are prone to confusion.
That's very rich coming from someone who is vastly, brazenly and unfathomably ignorant about the most commonly used word in the Assyrian language.  :giggle:

Again, get off your computer, find some Assyrian buddies who can actually speak Assyrian, talk with them and you'll be so embarrassed to know how wrong you are. Actually, don't even go that far. Start with your parents or close relatives. And come back to me.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2017, 09:49:33 AM »
Neon, there's too much nonsense in your post. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are taking most of what I'm saying and re-contextualising it as though my comments were responses to something other than what you had actually said; essentially, you've smothered this thread with straw man arguments. You also completely ignore many of my arguments and recycle your assertions to which they were addressed. For example, you say the below.

So the dictionary is wrong? Check your thesaurus. "Stubborn" is a synonym of "importunate". But again, why should this matter? We're speaking about the Assyrian terms here.

Absolute stupidity or deception.
-I am the one saying the dictionary is right whereas you're the one saying it's wrong. You're being misleading by making it out as though it's the other way around.
-I never denied that they were synonyms, I just explained how silly you were to use their synonymity to support your argument.

You are the one who brought up the fact that stubborn is a synonym of importunate. Not me but you. I then explained to you how this was irrelevant, misleading and thus demonstrated that you don't know what you're talking about. Then, you tell me "why should this matter?" - I don't know, Neon, I wasn't the one who brought it up.

I can't believe you then had the gall/stupidity to say "why should this matter?" as though I was the one who used their synonymity as an argument - this is the essence of your entire reply.


I don't have time for all of them so let's go through one more example of how foolish or deceptive your reply was.

What a hypocritical reply. You just said these English translations sound silly. And yours sounds even more ridiculous - What the hell is, "don't hold annoying/cry babyish"? Utter gibberish at best. I can say with confidence that "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts with me" still sounds much more graspable.

Again, you are not paying attention or you're being deceptive! For the third time:

"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!".
[/quote]

You keep talking about how "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me" sounds silly, and it does but "don't hold arrogant from me" sounds just as silly. You ignore what I said and attack the straw man. Reread the above if it wasn't clear enough for you - it's not hard to understand so why distort what I say?

If you knew anything about what you were talking about or if you were logical enough, and you tried to prove that riqi means stubborn, you would only alter the category which riqi represents in the translation. But, your comparison is built on a double standard.

You want to make your interpretation of Riqi look superior to mine so you allow the sentence to be translated in 2 completely different ways to put your interpretation in one, and mine in the other. This is precisely how one fails a scientific experiment, you're only meant to alter the variable your investigating. It's like dropping a chicken egg from a 1-story building and dropping an ostrich egg from a 20-story building and claiming that chicken eggs are stronger.

If you think the sentence actually means "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts with me", you would have to change the one word that is being debated to see which fits better. That means that you must then compare that sentence to "don't hold on to your importunate thoughts with me". But you don't do that. Instead, you allow two entirely different translations to take place. Then, you put your word in your fanciful and totally inaccurate translation whilst you put mine in an extremely literal translation that no one posited as the intended meaning. Then you rely on the double standard to condemn my translation.

This shows that you are applying very poor reasoning skills. On top of this, you have no clue about the subject your discussing. I hope I've raised some self-doubt in you since this is getting out of hand.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 09:51:50 AM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 05:14:46 AM »
Neon, there's too much nonsense in your post. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are taking most of what I'm saying and re-contextualising it as though my comments were responses to something other than what you had actually said; essentially, you've smothered this thread with straw man arguments. You also completely ignore many of my arguments and recycle your assertions to which they were addressed. For example, you say the below.
What an idiotic comeback. You use these feeble tactics to invalidate what I'm trying to say. But it won't work with me. You are wrong in all sides and angles. And this can still be fixed. How? Ask your fellow Assyrians what "riqqi" means. Just do that, and this unnecessary argument will be settled. And I'm making a strawman here... :lol:

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Absolute stupidity or deception.
-I am the one saying the dictionary is right whereas you're the one saying it's wrong. You're being misleading by making it out as though it's the other way around.
-I never denied that they were synonyms, I just explained how silly you were to use their synonymity to support your argument.
More of your petty, pedantic replies. You make an argument of the smallest things. Again, I don't care about the English synonyms. I already did tell you that "importunate" had "stubborn" in its synonyms. But, conveniently, you're using that as an argument against me. Pretty lowbrow from you.

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You are the one who brought up the fact that stubborn is a synonym of importunate. Not me but you. I then explained to you how this was irrelevant, misleading and thus demonstrated that you don't know what you're talking about. Then, you tell me "why should this matter?" - I don't know, Neon, I wasn't the one who brought it up.
Except that you brought up those definitions first. And, to help my case, I gave you the synonyms, where I said, even in English, stubborn is connected to importunate as a related word (if not having an exact meaning). But no, that's not enough for you. You then habitually continued to make pedantic arguments about it and conveniently, to win your argument, told me I don't know what I'm talking about. Just Lol. Look, you're right, this synonym thing is really irrelevant and misleading. It's getting us nowhere, as we're speaking about the modern usage of the Assyrian word. Let's drop it for both of our sake, shall we?

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I can't believe you then had the gall/stupidity to say "why should this matter?" as though I was the one who used their synonymity as an argument - this is the essence of your entire reply.
How hypocritical can you be? You stand against personal insults, but now you're the first to adhere to them now? You want to play the insult game? Okay, because the stupidity is actually entirely on your side. You reject the meaning of a word that's used by millions of us. That's stupidity for you. Or more rather, brazen stubbornness and arrogance at its finest.

And I'm amazed that you're still continuing with the English synonym topic, considering that both you and I agree that it's a redundant subject to this issue?

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Again, you are not paying attention or you're being deceptive! For the third time:

"La dvuq riqi mini" literally, in the strictest sense of the individual words, means "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me"
but since people often use "min" to mean "with", we get "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish with me". But, since these words are being appropriated for an expression, it actually means something like "don't keep being importunate/annoying/cry babyish towards me!".
Are you that dense or are you deliberately being sly? You can't seem to grasp what I'm trying to say. Yes, the actual meaning of "riqqi" may be translated as that in English (as silly as it sounds, literally). But since modern Assyrians use it for a stubborn or obstinate person, the meaning will be "don't be stubborn with me". I don't have to repeat myself again and go with the specifics again. I made myself really clear earlier. Ironically, you're the one who isn't paying any heed. The only deceptive person in here is you. You're hijacking a word's meaning which is defined as "stubborn" for millions of Assyrians.

And yet, on top of that, you actually do accept that the Assyrian language is evolving. Well, evolution will always change the meanings of a word. Make up your mind already and stop contradicting yourself.

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You keep talking about how "don't hold importunate/annoying/cry babyish from me" sounds silly, and it does but "don't hold arrogant from me" sounds just as silly. You ignore what I said and attack the straw man. Reread the above if it wasn't clear enough for you - it's not hard to understand so why distort what I say
Yeah, because I totally said "don't hold arrogant with me" earlier, and how it makes perfect sense. You just love putting words in my mouth, don't you? It's your tactic, isn't it? How about, all of these examples we made are silly and irrelevant to this discussion? And again, we're still talking about English synonyms, rather than about the Assyrian word and how Assyrians utilize it.  :blink:

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If you knew anything about what you were talking about or if you were logical enough, and you tried to prove that riqi means stubborn, you would only alter the category which riqi represents in the translation. But, your comparison is built on a double standard.
Your sly and manipulative ways will NOT work with me. Love how you're backpedaling and making up baseless crap, assumptions and the odd name callings, etc, because I shut you down. I already told you that Assyrians use the word for a stubborn person, despite the original dictionary meaning. I don't need to prove anything. But you're somehow vexed and irked about it. I really don't get why? Are you offended that Assyrians use it for your stubbornness? Is that why you're so irritated?

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You want to make your interpretation of Riqi look superior to mine so you allow the sentence to be translated in 2 completely different ways to put your interpretation in one, and mine in the other. This is precisely how one fails a scientific experiment, you're only meant to alter the variable your investigating. It's like dropping a chicken egg from a 1-story building and dropping an ostrich egg from a 20-story building and claiming that chicken eggs are stronger.
More of your useless analogies and petty comebacks. It's honestly becoming nauseating now. Stick to your humour and the way you lambaste others. I admit, I laugh at that.

And we still haven't got over the synonyms. Goodness gracious.

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If you think the sentence actually means "don't hold on to your stubborn thoughts with me", you would have to change the one word that is being debated to see which fits better. That means that you must then compare that sentence to "don't hold on to your importunate thoughts with me". But you don't do that. Instead, you allow two entirely different translations to take place. Then, you put your word in your fanciful and totally inaccurate translation whilst you put mine in an extremely literal translation that no one posited as the intended meaning. Then you rely on the double standard to condemn my translation.
We both made attempts to transliterate Assyrian sentences. Let's face it, they'll never come out perfectly, as English and Assyrian are two different languages. Oh, you also did the same "twisting" with my words too, cos I never wrote "don't hold stubborn with me". But again, let's stop discussing this petty and frivolous crap. We strayed far from the topic here and it's getting absurd that I know had to quote five of your paragraphs about English synonyms.

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This shows that you are applying very poor reasoning skills. On top of this, you have no clue about the subject your discussing. I hope I've raised some self-doubt in you since this is getting out of hand.
Speaking of poor reasoning skills, you still refrained from asking your folks about the modern Assyrian meaning of "riqqi". But this is convenient on your part - You'll lose your argument and look embarrassed afterwards. I don't blame you. Your ego will be crushed. So carry on with your intransigent ways.

What I learnt from this; You are sly and cantankerous. You use condescending insults and baseless assumptions to "win" without even looking for a second opinion. For you, ONLY the dictionary matters, when I told you numerously that the mouth of a fellow Assyrian is essential here. But you digressed from all this. I really expected more from you.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:48:05 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Crocodile Bani

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 09:11:30 AM »
J-Rok posts something and all hell breaks loose, not to mention that his original topic once again has been lost in the mayhem.  I think it is another Zionist conspiracy.
Back in Darwin for the 2nd time in my life.  Originally from Sydney (Fairfield area), lived in Vanuatu, Japan (twice), Thailand and Darwin once previously.  Western Sydney Wanderers fan as well as Parramatta Eels.  Veteran of 3 World Cups (*1994, 2006 and 2010).

Offline TerrenceMalick

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2017, 12:58:39 AM »
Yes, but we use riqqi for stubbornness nowadays. Its meaning has changed or evolved.

For an annoying person we say "masqedan(t)a".

Agree with Neon here.

My family and I also use riqqi for stubborness. So do my other friends and family members.

We say "riqqiyana" for men, and "riqqiyanta" for women.




Offline Neon

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Re: REESHA D ' KEEPA is a trait I can't change ..
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 01:23:04 AM »
Agree with Neon here.

My family and I also use riqqi for stubborness. So do my other friends and family members.

We say "riqqiyana" for men, and "riqqiyanta" for women.
Honestly, this thread made me think I was part of the Mandela Effect. I actually did start questioning my Assyrian relatives and friends on what the word "riqqi" meant to them just to confirm my reality. As I predicted, they all told me what I already know (riqqi = stubborn). So no, the Mandela Effect did not actually take effect. And with your post, this thread actually got much less surreal and more realistic. :lol:

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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