Author Topic: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?  (Read 1416 times)

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Offline Cascade

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Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« on: April 26, 2014, 10:46:05 AM »
Just wondering, were the Assyrians living in Hakkari Turkey (Tyari, Nochiya, Gawar, etc) and Urmia Iran ALWAYS FROM there? I mean, ever since the BC era, we always had Assyrians there? OR did they move from Assyria's capital Ninveh (or other cities like Ashur) up there after the Assyrian empire as a whole waned?


It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2014, 03:10:15 PM »
Just wondering, were the Assyrians living in Hakkari Turkey (Tyari, Nochiya, Gawar, etc) and Urmia Iran ALWAYS FROM there? I mean, ever since the BC era, we always had Assyrians there? OR did they move from Assyria's capital Ninveh (or other cities like Ashur) up there after the Assyrian empire as a whole waned?

Diyarbekir = Amida = Ancient Assyrian city.

Before Arabization and the psychopathy of Tamerlane, Assyrians lived in many areas that were in and around Mesopotamia.....

Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2016, 06:49:52 AM »
Diyarbekir = Amida = Ancient Assyrian city.

Before Arabization and the psychopathy of Tamerlane, Assyrians lived in many areas that were in and around Mesopotamia.....
So there were no Assyrians in Hakkari and Urmia in, say, 2000BC?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2016, 06:49:52 AM »

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2016, 09:27:25 PM »
So there were no Assyrians in Hakkari and Urmia in, say, 2000BC?

Any of those living there in that time and who were not Assyrians, would have had their descendants Assyrianised between then and 900 BC.
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Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2016, 10:22:20 PM »
Any of those living there in that time and who were not Assyrians, would have had their descendants Assyrianised between then and 900 BC.
So Assyrians from Urmia would have a degree of Persian ancestry, and those in Hakkari would have Hittite, Urartian and/or Hurrian ancestry?

I find this actually plausible, considering that some Urmians tend to have a rather distinct Farsi look (although Hakkarians mostly look homogeneous).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2016, 08:24:27 PM »
So Assyrians from Urmia would have a degree of Persian ancestry, and those in Hakkari would have Hittite, Urartian and/or Hurrian ancestry?

I find this actually plausible, considering that some Urmians tend to have a rather distinct Farsi look (although Hakkarians mostly look homogeneous).

Not really. We all probably have a little bit from all the various peoples that were Assyrianised in antiquity since it's been such a long time, we've lived so close to each other and we are genetically homogeneous. Also, the Persian admixture would not be high since we didn't mix with Muslims, and Persians essentially let Assyria run itself during the Persian Empire. One could argue that many of our non-Assyrian neighbours probably have a lot of Assyrian admixture since the Assyrian population was one of the largest on earth in antiquity, and since many of those Assyrians assimilated into other societies.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 01:19:48 AM »
Not really. We all probably have a little bit from all the various peoples that were Assyrianised in antiquity since it's been such a long time, we've lived so close to each other and we are genetically homogeneous. Also, the Persian admixture would not be high since we didn't mix with Muslims, and Persians essentially let Assyria run itself during the Persian Empire. One could argue that many of our non-Assyrian neighbours probably have a lot of Assyrian admixture since the Assyrian population was one of the largest on earth in antiquity, and since many of those Assyrians assimilated into other societies.

Actually, we do have Persian admixture from our time of living under the Persian empire. I should also say that various Iranian peoples did live in Mesopotamia but these Iranians were speaking Aramaic and living in our cities.

It also really explains all the old and medieval Persian words Assyrians still use in Sureth like "pulada" (pulad is Persian for steel)

Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 01:33:50 AM »
Not really. We all probably have a little bit from all the various peoples that were Assyrianised in antiquity since it's been such a long time, we've lived so close to each other and we are genetically homogeneous. Also, the Persian admixture would not be high since we didn't mix with Muslims, and Persians essentially let Assyria run itself during the Persian Empire. One could argue that many of our non-Assyrian neighbours probably have a lot of Assyrian admixture since the Assyrian population was one of the largest on earth in antiquity, and since many of those Assyrians assimilated into other societies.
I meant, that we mixed with some of them before Islam came to be. In antiquity times.

Of course, that's not to say that there are no Persians with Assyrian/Mesopotamian ancestry.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online Kebabsås

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 09:43:37 PM »
So Assyrians from Urmia would have a degree of Persian ancestry
No 100% pure
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 10:22:22 PM »
Actually, we do have Persian admixture from our time of living under the Persian empire.

That's exactly what I said except that the admixture would not be much.

I should also say that various Iranian peoples did live in Mesopotamia but these Iranians were speaking Aramaic and living in our cities.

There weren't many Persians in Mesopotamia which is why they could never enforce their language and were compelled to use Aramaic as an official language. Also, they interfered very little with the Assyrian territories and gave them a large degree of autonomy which all suggest that there was no large Persian presence in Mesopotamia.


It also really explains all the old and medieval Persian words Assyrians still use in Sureth like "pulada" (pulad is Persian for steel)
Not really. Given that we were part of the Persian Empire, the number of Persian loanwords is far too few to suggest that they derive from Assyrianised Persians. We probably have more loanwords from Greek or English but how many Greek or English ancestors do you think we have?

The Persians were a neighbouring nation that forged a huge empire that annexed our homeland and yet, after thousands of years, we only have .. 50? 60? ...100 loanwords from Persian?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 10:29:04 PM by Sharukinu »
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2016, 10:56:16 PM »
That's exactly what I said except that the admixture would not be much.

There weren't many Persians in Mesopotamia which is why they could never enforce their language and were compelled to use Aramaic as an official language. Also, they interfered very little with the Assyrian territories and gave them a large degree of autonomy which all suggest that there was no large Persian presence in Mesopotamia.

Not really. Given that we were part of the Persian Empire, the number of Persian loanwords is far too few to suggest that they derive from Assyrianised Persians. We probably have more loanwords from Greek or English but how many Greek or English ancestors do you think we have?

The Persians were a neighbouring nation that forged a huge empire that annexed our homeland and yet, after thousands of years, we only have .. 50? 60? ...100 loanwords from Persian?


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Classical_Syriac_terms_derived_from_Old_Persian
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Classical_Syriac_terms_derived_from_Middle_Persian
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Classical_Syriac_terms_derived_from_Parthian
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Classical_Syriac_terms_derived_from_Persian

Offline Sharukinu

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“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

― Titus Livy

Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 11:14:16 PM »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online Kebabsås

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 07:53:04 PM »
Source? Lol
My ancestors were not dogs they only married other Assyrian/Kaldos in Urmia, no mixing with others. Which makes me 100% pure Assyrian/kaldo. How the hell am i supposed to show sources, its in my blood. Can you give sources which show that we have Persian blood?. BTW there is like zero Persians in Urmia area, the only ethnicity there are kurds our turks.


Why are you trying to trigger me? REEEEEEEEe
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Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 09:41:41 PM »
My ancestors were not dogs they only married other Assyrian/Kaldos in Urmia, no mixing with others. Which makes me 100% pure Assyrian/kaldo. How the hell am i supposed to show sources, its in my blood. Can you give sources which show that we have Persian blood?. BTW there is like zero Persians in Urmia area, the only ethnicity there are kurds our turks.


Why are you trying to trigger me? REEEEEEEEe
I'm not speaking about today where Urmia has more Kurds and Turks. Centuries ago Persians dominated in Urmia. Yes, you're right, there are no sources that claim Urmians have Iranian blood, but I've heard from a lot of Assyrians that those of Urmia have more Persian in them than the rest. So I'm going by word of mouth. They probably would have 10% of Iranian DNA in them. So it's nothing dramatic.

Speaking of triggering, you should really ditch the term "Chaldo" btw, and stay with just "Assyrian". ;)

P.S. What's your millet again?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online Kebabsås

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2017, 07:27:43 AM »
Yes, you're right, there are no sources that claim Urmians have Iranian blood, but I've heard from a lot of Assyrians that those of Urmia have more Persian in them than the rest. So I'm going by word of mouth. They probably would have 10% of Iranian DNA in them. So it's nothing dramatic.
Who are these Assyrians? why do they hate us? What have we done to them? How would they know we have Persian blood in us? 10% is a a lot

Speaking of triggering, you should really ditch the term "Chaldo" btw, and stay with just "Assyrian". ;)
ok only for you

P.S. What's your millet again?
Urmia?




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Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2017, 12:20:56 PM »
West Iranid aka SUMERIAN ARYAN DNA in Semtic immigrants in the Mesopotamia could be not directly from the Persians/Medes (Kurds) but from the Levant.

The NEW study on the Levant Semites is out. Assyrians are for a great part the LEVANT Semites. Their Semitic language is from the Levant.





Here is the MODEL




from this study: http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448



Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2017, 01:07:41 PM »
Notice how the Copper Age Aryans from the Zagros Mountains invaded the Steppes in North and the Semitic lands in South.

It has been sais that the Kaaba temple in Mekka was originally an Aryan Ezdi temple. And that the Sumerian Aryan farmers civilized the Semitic savages. Later on the Sumerian Aryans were assimilated by the Semites.

The same happened in the Steppes. When the Aryans from the Zagros Mountains invaded the Steppes, the people of the Steppes were partly Aryanized by the Aryans from the Zagros Mountains. Later on they lost most of their Aryan DNA after mixing with the East European females. So their Aryan DNA was diluted.


The purest Aryans of our age are still West Iranian Kurds of the Zagros Mountains. After them come other West Iranians and after the West Iranian are Caucasian speaking people of the Cuaucasus the most Aryan..

Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2017, 01:28:56 AM »
Who are these Assyrians? why do they hate us? What have we done to them? How would they know we have Persian blood in us? 10% is a a lot

What hate? They only said Urmians have a higher Iranian admixture than the rest. Doesn't mean they hate us. Lol

Btw, both of my grandmothers are Urmians. ;)
West Iranid aka SUMERIAN ARYAN DNA in Semtic immigrants in the Mesopotamia could be not directly from the Persians/Medes (Kurds) but from the Levant.

The NEW study on the Levant Semites is out. Assyrians are for a great part the LEVANT Semites. Their Semitic language is from the Levant.





Here is the MODEL




from this study: http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448

1. None of these diagrams have the word Assyrian in them (let alone say where we are from!).
2. None of these diagrams even use the word "Semite" (perhaps because their creators don't believe in Jewish myths like you do).
3. All these diagrams are based on Neolithic times. Like as if they determine our modern races today.
4. Nobody is pure. Even you.
5. Aryan, Western Iranian, Caucasian, you are still of the Middle Eastern race to 99% of the world. And that's how you appear, regardless of where in the Middle East your ancestors come from.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Ezidi Kurd

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2017, 09:33:58 AM »
1. None of these diagrams have the word Assyrian in them (let alone say where we are from!).
2. None of these diagrams even use the word "Semite" (perhaps because their creators don't believe in Jewish myths like you do).
3. All these diagrams are based on Neolithic times. Like as if they determine our modern races today.
4. Nobody is pure. Even you.
5. Aryan, Western Iranian, Caucasian, you are still of the Middle Eastern race to 99% of the world. And that's how you appear, regardless of where in the Middle East your ancestors come from.
1. They focus on evolution of the ancient Levant people. Assyrians are originally for a huge part from the Levant.
2. Semites are from an area around the Levant. Take Berbers as an example. Berbers speak an Afro-Asiatic language like the Assyrians. Do you think that the Berbers are from the Mesopotamia?
3. Bronze Age, Iron Age are NOT Neolithic times.
4. I'm not pure, but I'm one of the purest people in this planet.
5. Aryans, West Iranians, Sumerians, the Medes, Persians etc. have always been part of the West Asian race. And always will be. Like Europe, Africa, (South)East Asia, the Middle East is not homogeneous. In the Middle East, Near East, West Asia, Levant, Arabia etc. live at least 3 different races.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Assyrians from Hakkari and Urmia?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2017, 12:07:11 AM »
1. They focus on evolution of the ancient Levant people. Assyrians are originally for a huge part from the Levant.
2. Semites are from an area around the Levant. Take Berbers as an example. Berbers speak an Afro-Asiatic language like the Assyrians. Do you think that the Berbers are from the Mesopotamia?
3. Bronze Age, Iron Age are NOT Neolithic times.
4. I'm not pure, but I'm one of the purest people in this planet.
5. Aryans, West Iranians, Sumerians, the Medes, Persians etc. have always been part of the West Asian race. And always will be. Like Europe, Africa, (South)East Asia, the Middle East is not homogeneous. In the Middle East, Near East, West Asia, Levant, Arabia etc. live at least 3 different races.
1. So we're from the Levant. No surprise. We must've started somewhere in the Middle East. What's your point though?
2. What the hell do you mean? Berbers speak an Afro-Asiatic language that has evolved in North Africa. Assyrians speak a Semitic language which evolved in the Levant. Your question is analogical to this: Are Swedes from Afghanistan (because both are Indo-European)? Of course not.
3. Your charts were mostly focused in neolithic times.
4. As are Assyrians. I showed you that chart of MODERN Assyrians, and we were mostly of Western Asian ancestry with little of Arab and Italian/Greek, and we fared really close with Armenians. Just because we have a bit of Persian (Aryan) and surrounding ethnic groups in us doesn't mean we're "mixed". Like I said, in the European eye you and I are of the same race anyway; The Middle Eastern or Mediterranean race.
5. Nobody even cares about that. Iranians, Arabs, Levantines are all Middle Eastern. I'm sorry, but that's just how the world sees us. Sure, our genes may be distinct from each other, but to an outsider we are all Western Asians or Middle Easterners.

P.S Yes, you are western Iranian, but we are Mesopotamian. Just because we came from Levantine in neolithic times doesn't mean Mesopotamia is not our home. We lived in Mesopotamia for the past 4000 years. You are being too technical and puristic. You can might as well argue that Native Americans don't belong in their land because they came from Asia 15,000 years ago, or Aboriginal Australians have no rights to their land because they came from southeast Asia 70,000 years ago. It's not that hard to understand.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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