Author Topic: There seems to be some confusion...  (Read 30715 times)

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Offline RadRides

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« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2006, 03:58:23 AM »
I really have no bucketload to spill, but I'm just gonna mention this: who's a fundamentalist?  why should i gouch out my eye?  no one takes everything so literal my dear MJay.  That skewed takhmanta is something you need to understand. I speak for many in this thread.

Offline MXJSPH

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« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2006, 04:10:08 AM »
Rad, when scripture is manipulated to send a certain message across, a certain message which is the personal opinion of somebody.. thats what I was implying. I'm not talking entirely about the contents of this thread, but what I've seen consistantly in various threads. There are messages of love and coexistance in the NT, but these are overlooked in favour of the more rigid passages generally more present in Paul's writing and the OT.

In the case of this thread however, how would people react if the interview was with a Christian or a Catholic and I made a mockery of it all and answered the questions in a silly manner with almost no shredd of intelligence..? I'm talking about justice on this site, I'm just refering to people's non-existant courtesy. If someone has a point to make, put it forward in an appropriate manner.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

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Offline RadRides

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« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2006, 04:16:20 AM »
Quote from: MJaY
Rad, when scripture is manipulated to send a certain message across, a certain message which is the personal opinion of somebody.. thats what I was implying. I'm not talking entirely about the contents of this thread, but what I've seen consistantly in various threads. There are messages of love and coexistance in the NT, but these are overlooked in favour of the more rigid passages generally more present in Paul's writing and the OT.

In the case of this thread however, how would people react if the interview was with a Christian or a Catholic and I made a mockery of it all and answered the questions in a silly manner with almost no shredd of intelligence..? I'm talking about justice on this site, I'm just refering to people's non-existant courtesy. If someone has a point to make, put it forward in an appropriate manner.


I don't believe the individuals in here "manipulate" scripture.  They appear to have studied it carefully and do not take it out of context.  I will say that there seems to be personal attacks thrown in, but all in all, the individuals in here are presenting some good cases.  I don't agree with some of them and my beliefs are my own.  The letters of Paul are probably some of the best examples of who God is.  John himself mentioned it on page 3 I believe.  It is not just about love, it is much deeper than that.  The name calling should stop.  You of all people should know that.  We are intelligent people.  You know the sayin, "la matee honookh b'honet b'dawa kheena."  babylonx takes things a tad over the edge, but he means well.

Offline MXJSPH

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« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2006, 04:22:41 AM »
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I don't believe the individuals in here "manipulate" scripture. They appear to have studied it carefully and do not take it out of context. I will say that there seems to be personal attacks thrown in, but all in all, the individuals in here are presenting some good cases. I don't agree with some of them and my beliefs are my own. The letters of Paul are probably some of the best examples of who God is. John himself mentioned it on page 3 I believe. It is not just about love, it is much deeper than that. The name calling should stop. You of all people should know that. We are intelligent people. You know the sayin, "la matee honookh b'honet b'dawa kheena." babylonx takes things a tad over the edge, but he means well.


Oh yeah for sure, God is meant to encapsulate all things, not just something in particular, after all, he is omniscient and omnipotent. If God is the ultimate source of everything, one has to remember he is then the source of all hate and evil as well, for he is the creator of all things.. Even Satan/Lucifer.

I'm not disputing that. I mean, I'm hardly the most mature person, but I dont bring that in here.. Because I know how sensitive some people are to their beliefs.

Each to their own though.. And thats relativism for ya.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

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Offline RadRides

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« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2006, 04:24:48 AM »
Quote from: MJaY
Quote
I don't believe the individuals in here "manipulate" scripture. They appear to have studied it carefully and do not take it out of context. I will say that there seems to be personal attacks thrown in, but all in all, the individuals in here are presenting some good cases. I don't agree with some of them and my beliefs are my own. The letters of Paul are probably some of the best examples of who God is. John himself mentioned it on page 3 I believe. It is not just about love, it is much deeper than that. The name calling should stop. You of all people should know that. We are intelligent people. You know the sayin, "la matee honookh b'honet b'dawa kheena." babylonx takes things a tad over the edge, but he means well.


Oh yeah for sure, God is meant to encapsulate all things, not just something in particular, after all, he is omniscient and omnipotent. If God is the ultimate source of everything, one has to remember he is then the source of all hate and evil as well, for he is the creator of all things.. Even Satan/Lucifer.

I'm not disputing that. I mean, I'm hardly the most mature person, but I dont bring that in here.. Because I know how sensitive some people are to their beliefs.

Each to their own though.. And thats relativism for ya.


If only I had chosen Mid East religions and Philosophy instead of Engineering.  What a pain I'd be.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2006, 04:42:53 AM »
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It's not his age. It's his IQ. Very, very low. I don't know how he dresses himself in the morning.



...
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Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2006, 07:34:41 AM »
Quote from: vanity_fair
 
Let's just say the God I believe in isn't exactly like the God found in the bible.

And what is your basis for your understanding of God?
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline Crocodile Bani

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« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2006, 09:23:05 AM »
Vanity,

I urge you to pick up a dictionary and look up definitions for "hating" and "disagreeing".  Anyone who agrees with Vanity's accusations should follow suit.
Back in Darwin for the 2nd time in my life.  Originally from Sydney (Fairfield area), lived in Vanuatu, Japan (twice), Thailand and Darwin once previously.  Western Sydney Wanderers fan as well as Parramatta Eels.  Veteran of 3 World Cups (1994, 2006 and 2010).

Offline vanity_fair

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« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2006, 10:46:31 AM »
Moja Moja - I know what hate means. And I know what disagree means.  Don't try to argue that I don't have an understanding of the English language.

Senalko - I already answered all those questions.  Read it again and pay attantion this time.  Make notes or something.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2006, 12:03:43 PM »
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Now, to your last paragraph there, do you really believe that Jesus only preached love?? He preached more on Hell then he did Heaven. The Pharisees and Scribes (Jews) were referred to as a "brood of vipors". Doesn't sound to loving to me. You like to accentuate God's love over his other attributes such as jealousy and justice. Don't be so quick to only concentrate on the attributes of God which you find appealing, or you will all to soon discover the others.


You’re wrong.  Jesus never mentioned Hell (because it does not exist, but that's another point), but only preached love and acceptance.  The Pharisees were never enemies of Jesus.  The main point Paul and the entire New Testament is arguing is that Jews should accept gentiles into Judaism.  The Pharisees were one of the Jewish groups who opposed the acceptance of gentiles into their religion.  They were very much concerned with law because they wanted to make every aspect of their life pure.  Basically they believed that as a Jew, you were part of a social contract justice  and practice helped you remember who you were and the Torah every second.

Paul wanted to break laws (like the circumcision one) and barriers because he understood that they prevented us from having peace and ultimately returning to Eden.  He felt the circle was no longer needed, now that the Messiah had arrived.  This was a radical view because many people suffered and had been martyred as a result of staying true to these laws.        
The Pharisees never opposed Jesus .  They were his followers and part of his counsel and all he wanted to teach them was to welcome gentiles.  The gentiles were not required to accept Jewish identity, but only had to follow ethics and they would become one in God. And this bothered the Pharisees because they felt this was not that strong of a devotion…
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Offline babylonx

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« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2006, 01:13:52 PM »
Quote from: vanity_fair



I'm going to have to direct you to WHY I said that.  If you look back, you'll see that he was very VERY rude to another member of this forum and I have no other way to explain it but to think that he's an idiot.   That statement was made in defence of someone else on an issue that has nothing to do with God, religion, or anything else.  Why would my defending someone who's totally innocent in all this offend you?  I don't think it makes me a hypocrite at all.  If anything, standing up for people is good, right?  Anyway...moving on.



Please tell me who you are referring to that was totally innocent?? I hope your not talking about slitUrAnkles?

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2006, 01:16:37 PM »
Quote from: decorus<>celebrus


You’re wrong.  Jesus never mentioned Hell (because it does not exist, but that's another point), but only preached love and acceptance.  


Thanks for defending me! But please explain this point because I'm confused, what do you mean hell doesn't exist?

Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2006, 09:21:03 PM »
Quote from: MJaY
  Oh yeah for sure, God is meant to encapsulate all things, not just something in particular, after all, he is omniscient and omnipotent. If God is the ultimate source of everything, one has to remember he is then the source of all hate and evil as well, for he is the creator of all things.. Even Satan/Lucifer.

I'm not disputing that. I mean, I'm hardly the most mature person, but I dont bring that in here.. Because I know how sensitive some people are to their beliefs.



I would agree, God is the source of everything, including evil.  BUT, the Bible is very clear that God is not the author of evil.  How you meld the two, I can not fathom, nor pretend to understand.
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2006, 09:35:50 PM »
Quote from: decorus<>celebrus
Quote
Now, to your last paragraph there, do you really believe that Jesus only preached love?? He preached more on Hell then he did Heaven. The Pharisees and Scribes (Jews) were referred to as a "brood of vipors". Doesn't sound to loving to me. You like to accentuate God's love over his other attributes such as jealousy and justice. Don't be so quick to only concentrate on the attributes of God which you find appealing, or you will all to soon discover the others.


You’re wrong.  Jesus never mentioned Hell (because it does not exist, but that's another point), but only preached love and acceptance.  The Pharisees were never enemies of Jesus.  The main point Paul and the entire New Testament is arguing is that Jews should accept gentiles into Judaism.  The Pharisees were one of the Jewish groups who opposed the acceptance of gentiles into their religion.  They were very much concerned with law because they wanted to make every aspect of their life pure.  Basically they believed that as a Jew, you were part of a social contract justice  and practice helped you remember who you were and the Torah every second.

Paul wanted to break laws (like the circumcision one) and barriers because he understood that they prevented us from having peace and ultimately returning to Eden.  He felt the circle was no longer needed, now that the Messiah had arrived.  This was a radical view because many people suffered and had been martyred as a result of staying true to these laws.        
The Pharisees never opposed Jesus .  They were his followers and part of his counsel and all he wanted to teach them was to welcome gentiles.  The gentiles were not required to accept Jewish identity, but only had to follow ethics and they would become one in God. And this bothered the Pharisees because they felt this was not that strong of a devotion…

Forgive me, but this is one of the most misguided things I have ever read?  Jesus, and/or the NT doesn't mention hell???  What is the place where the gnashing of teeth occurs?  Found 7 times in the NT.  Or how about in Luke 16 where the parable Jesus tells specifically mentions Hades?  (ESV translation)  

You say Jesus ONLY preached "love and acceptance"??  What is this then:  "Mat 10:34  "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36  And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Mat 10:37  Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "

If you think that Paul and the NT were trying to recommit people to Judaism, you are CRAZY.  Paul himself says no one is justified by the law, which is how you are justified and forgiven of sin in Judaism.
Rom 3:20  For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Furthermore, you are saved by GRACE, and NOT by keeping the law of the OT.

You say the Pharisees never opposed Jesus, and were his followers????   Are you serious??  Have you ever read the Gospels?  I really don't mean to jump on you, but I'd rather you just admit you don't have a clue and have questions then make some incredibly ludicrous statements such as these.
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2006, 05:21:56 AM »
I mentioned everything I said on here on my final exam paper (for Biblical Studies course) and ended up receiving an A+ for it so don't give me all this crap about how my info is false and misguiding.  I'm sure my religion professors know what they're talking about much more than you do.  And all those quotes you people mentioned are taken out of context and you don't know what the true meaning behind them is.  No matter how many times you claim to have read the bible, you will never fully comprehend what it's about because the bible was a Literature written for an oppressed bunch of people who lived thousands of years ago.  No relation to you what’s so ever.  Even Historians admit to how easy it is to be mislead by the Bible.  

The bible is a very good book filled with many wise and true believes, but it’s also a very dangerous one…
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Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2006, 05:55:28 AM »
Quote from: decorus<>celebrus
I mentioned everything I said on here on my final exam paper (for Biblical Studies course) and ended up receiving an A+ for it so don't give me all this crap about how my info is false and misguiding.  I'm sure my religion professors know what they're talking about much more than you do.  And all those quotes you people mentioned are taken out of context and you don't know what the true meaning behind them is.  No matter how many times you claim to have read the bible, you will never fully comprehend what it's about because the bible was a Literature written for an oppressed bunch of people who lived thousands of years ago.  No relation to you what’s so ever.  Even Historians admit to how easy it is to be mislead by the Bible.  

The bible is a very good book filled with many wise and true believes, but it’s also a very dangerous one…

I don't give one second of thought to what some religion professor thinks.  Why don't you take a second to support your position with Scripture?  Or show me where I have erred with the text I posted.  Did I take those out of context??   Is the "gnashing of teeth" taken out of context 7 times?  Is the actual word "Hades" taken out of context?  Please explain.  Why should I care about some paper you received an A+ on because what is likely to be a liberal anti christian professor gave you a good grade?  Most religion professors are philosophy teachers and not true scholars in the area of Christianity.  So until you either just say you don't accept the Bible, which I think you basically did, or you refute what I actually said, we can leave it where it is.

Please educate me.  How did I take those verses out of context?  How does Paul through his epistles, make it so abundantly clear that you are saved by Grace and not through the law, yet you say that I am taking those verses wrong??  Paul wrote after Christ, has something changed since then that salvation would be different?
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2006, 07:00:36 AM »
I don’t feel the need to explain myself any further. And yeah your right…I don’t take everything written in the bible as the absolute truth.  And I also believe that much of the stuff mentioned in it is either supposed to symbolize something or it was meant to please a culture that does not exist in our time.

It says in the Bible that the Israelites were beaten by the Assyrians and Babylonians because they somehow had broken the covenant they made with God.  Do I believe this…No.  I think it was just a case of a stronger Nation taking over a weaker Kingdom.    

You said that I didn’t support the Bible and you’re wrong.  I believe myself to be a devote Christian, but once again I feel the Gospels are very flawed.  But kheena those people who wrote them were trying to build Jesus’ credentials (since they were now faced with the crisis of the Messianic Age and the Destruction of the destruction of the second Temple) and didn’t realize they were creating a new religion and causing even more separation.
There are many idiots out there who use the bible to justify their hate and intolerance towards other races or homosexuals and to me that just shows how corrupt and wrong religion can be sometimes.
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Offline Nuray

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« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2006, 07:46:58 AM »
I don't care what you say buddy...I still maintain my believes.

I think the Apostles did exaggerate things to get their points across.  Man is flawed and I think Jesus would have been enraged by some of the things they stated.  And by the way when I say the Gospels were flawed, I mean partially so don't you dare put words in my mouth.  :angry:

And no…I was raised a Catholic, but don’t really consider myself to be one anymore.
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Offline Angel2

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« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2006, 10:43:51 AM »
...
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2006, 01:10:38 PM »
Honestly, I'm shocked to see SO MANY Assyrians interpreting the bible the way they are doing now. If each Christian around the world did this then we would've had one billion Christian sects by now. The bible was written in a different language, but its main messages are written for average people to understand. You don't need a guru to tell you how to read your bible because that would make it a cult, not a religion. We have no nation of our own, were losing our language, the only thing that we are proud of is our religion and you have all these new generation ENLIGHTENED individuals who think they should win the noble prize for theology/philosophy/history/biology/chemistry/etc. because they are smart and the THOUSANDS of religious scholars and theologians who lived before them were all dumb. That is PATHETIC, no wonder Assyrians got to where they are today! I believe the bible word for word, from the creation in 6 days to Noah's universal flood to God stirring the Assyrians and Babylonians to conquer Israel and Judah then bringing about their downfall and finally to the virgin birth, death and resurrection of the son of God who will come at the end of time to judge the living and the dead and to punish and reward accordingly:

Matthrew 13:40
"Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers,  and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let anyone with ears listen!"

If you think Paul was a liar, then those are the words Jesus spoke. If you don't believe what he said, then YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! By faith and works that show your dedicated to your faith, you will go to heaven, or else you'll burn in hell for eternity. If you don't believe the bible as it is written and think its full of flaws, then congratulations but your not the first to say that, Mohammad said the new testament was distorted 1400 years ago, so feel free to convert before its too late, I believe its not too late to catch a flight to Mecca and throw stones at the pillars of Iblis!

Offline vanity_fair

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« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2006, 03:11:20 PM »
We've totally digressed from the original purpose of this thread at this point, so a little more won't hurt.

Babylonx, people like you is why so many are turned OFF of Christianity.  If you want Christianity to spread and be accepted by even more people than it is today, stop what you're doing at this point.  Go out and LIVE like a Christian and you'll convert plenty of people.  like I said, the best Christians I know never, ever told me I was going to hell because I chose not to take the bible literally, and they certainly never suggested that because of my beliefs, I might as well convert to Islam.  

I’ll give you one example.  My philosophy teacher in high school was amazing.  He’s probably one of the best people in the world.  He LITERALLY took in homeless people during the coldest days of winter.  He let them stay at his house, fed them, and took care of them.  Because of this, his landlord threatened to evict him from his house.  Instead of kicking out the homeless people, he chose to get evicted and ended up living in a woman’s shelter that he had built.

I don’t want to follow YOUR example and live like YOU Babylonx.  I want to try to live like my philosophy teacher.  Because HE was a good Christian.  Literacy alone doesn’t make you a good Christian.  Anyone can read the bible and understand it.  It takes a true Christian to live like one.  And like I said, my teacher never, EVER (not once) preached the bible to us. He probably never even talked about God beyond the lectures that required the discussion.  There were people in our class who were agnostic and atheistic, but he never judged them or tried to sway their opinion.  

You’d convert more people with your deeds than your words.

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2006, 04:49:03 PM »
sorry to say babylonx, but I usually never agree on your interpretations............Decorus knows what she is talking about, but I have no idea where you get your information.......

Your interpretations of the bible are bits and pieces and you don't look at the whole picture.................you take things out of context and make them into what you want them to be...........................
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Offline Senan

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« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2006, 04:49:48 PM »
Quote from: vanity_fair
We've totally digressed from the original purpose of this thread at this point, so a little more won't hurt.

Babylonx, people like you is why so many are turned OFF of Christianity.  If you want Christianity to spread and be accepted by even more people than it is today, stop what you're doing at this point.  Go out and LIVE like a Christian and you'll convert plenty of people.  like I said, the best Christians I know never, ever told me I was going to hell because I chose not to take the bible literally, and they certainly never suggested that because of my beliefs, I might as well convert to Islam.  

I’ll give you one example.  My philosophy teacher in high school was amazing.  He’s probably one of the best people in the world.  He LITERALLY took in homeless people during the coldest days of winter.  He let them stay at his house, fed them, and took care of them.  Because of this, his landlord threatened to evict him from his house.  Instead of kicking out the homeless people, he chose to get evicted and ended up living in a woman’s shelter that he had built.

I don’t want to follow YOUR example and live like YOU Babylonx.  I want to try to live like my philosophy teacher.  Because HE was a good Christian.  Literacy alone doesn’t make you a good Christian.  Anyone can read the bible and understand it.  It takes a true Christian to live like one.  And like I said, my teacher never, EVER (not once) preached the bible to us. He probably never even talked about God beyond the lectures that required the discussion.  There were people in our class who were agnostic and atheistic, but he never judged them or tried to sway their opinion.  

You’d convert more people with your deeds than your words.


can you please give me a definition of exactly how to be a christian, according to you that is??

Offline vanity_fair

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« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2006, 07:31:49 PM »
Quote from: Malka_shomana

can you please give me a definition of exactly how to be a christian, according to you that is??


i don't have a definition.  i just have examples.

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2006, 01:32:48 AM »
Quote from: Angel2
sorry to say babylonx, but I usually never agree on your interpretations............Decorus knows what she is talking about, but I have no idea where you get your information.......

Your interpretations of the bible are bits and pieces and you don't look at the whole picture.................you take things out of context and make them into what you want them to be...........................


Please explain to me why you think Hell doesn't exist? How am I talking things out of context??

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2006, 02:12:46 AM »
Quote from: vanity_fair


Babylonx, people like you is why so many are turned OFF of Christianity.  If you want Christianity to spread and be accepted by even more people than it is today, stop what you're doing at this point.  


If someone is turned off of Christianity because of me, then those people are stupid because I'm not Jesus Christ or one of his apostles to speak on his behalf. I read what is clearly written in the bible and preach, if you think I am wrong THEN DONT LISTEN TO ME! I'm not the one whose going to judge you when you die. I dont make up stuff, I just read and preach and what I preach is not ridiculous, the gospel says you'll go to hell if you sin, so I tell people you'll go to hell if you sin, its as clear and simple as that.

Quote from: vanity_fair

Go out and LIVE like a Christian and you'll convert plenty of people.  like I said, the best Christians I know never, ever told me I was going to hell because I chose not to take the bible literally, and they certainly never suggested that because of my beliefs, I might as well convert to Islam.  


You have never seen how I live out, so don't judge me! The gospel has been preached and is eternal, you shouldn't chose to accept what you like and ignore what you don't like. Its a full package, take it or leave it!

Galatians 1:6-9
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Quote from: vanity_fair

I’ll give you one example.  My philosophy teacher in high school was amazing.  He’s probably one of the best people in the world.  He LITERALLY took in homeless people during the coldest days of winter.  He let them stay at his house, fed them, and took care of them.  Because of this, his landlord threatened to evict him from his house.  Instead of kicking out the homeless people, he chose to get evicted and ended up living in a woman’s shelter that he had built.


Your teacher was building his treasure in heaven and will be rewarded for it!

Quote from: vanity_fair


I don’t want to follow YOUR example and live like YOU Babylonx.  


Again, I'm not Jesus Christ! No one is telling you to live like me, I'm just telling you what I think, you seem like an intelligent girl, you read the gospel, come to your conclusion and believe whatever you want to believe, God will judge you, it won't make a difference for me whether you go to heaven or hell! I'm just doing my role and telling you what I think. If I'm wrong, then I hope God sends me to hell..

Quote from: vanity_fair

I want to try to live like my philosophy teacher.  Because HE was a good Christian.


If thats what your planning to do then I salute you, doing stuff like that will get you to heaven not arguing about the bible on the internet...

Quote from: vanity_fair

 Literacy alone doesn’t make you a good Christian.  Anyone can read the bible and understand it.  It takes a true Christian to live like one.


I agree 100%

Quote from: vanity_fair

 And like I said, my teacher never, EVER (not once) preached the bible to us. He probably never even talked about God beyond the lectures that required the discussion.


Teachers are not allowed to preach while instructing a class or else he would've preached faster than an Argentenian soccer commentator during a world cup game!

Quote from: vanity_fair

 There were people in our class who were agnostic and atheistic, but he never judged them or tried to sway their opinion.  


Again, hes a teacher, its not right to preach or judge while in that position! I had a anglican university professor who was a priest, he would say when I enter that classroom door, I'm just a Christianity professor, but outside that door, my whole life is dedicated to serving and preaching about one man, Jesus Christ!

Quote from: vanity_fair

You’d convert more people with your deeds than your words.


Again your right, but this is a forum, you can't see what I do, but only read what I say. In real life I have muslim, athiest, hindu, etc. friends whom I respect and always try to do something nice for so they say look how kind Christians are!

Offline babylonx

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There seems to be some confusion...
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2006, 02:14:39 AM »
Quote from: vanity_fair
Quote from: Malka_shomana

can you please give me a definition of exactly how to be a christian, according to you that is??


i don't have a definition.  i just have examples.


Your teacher was a true example of a Christian.
Except for the not preaching part, but thats because he was a teacher and is not allowed to preach while in a class room setting where he's getting paid to teach not preach!

Offline babylonx

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There seems to be some confusion...
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2006, 02:18:57 AM »
Quote from: Senalko


thats all it is....We are saved by GOD's Grace, by Faith... and NOT by doing good deeds as many christians teach and beleieve is the case :)



I disagree!
You can't say I believe Jesus died for my sins and continue to sin!
You are saved by faith and the works which show that your dedicated to your faith. You can't just sit home and say I'm faithful, you must preach, help others, etc. for Christ's sake, that is real faith!

JohnSydney

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« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2006, 02:43:44 AM »
Vanity_Fair:

Im assuming that your a female and youve studied some sort of psychology and philosophy at uni. just a wild guess, u know, using massive words like asisine? agnotisicsm? man i gota get my thesaurus. im guessing this cos ur on all out offense mode. I havent read the essays you and babylonx have exchanged, but i have taken the liberty to highlight some of ur comments, please enjoy.

Quote
Sadly, you don’t meet my qualifications. I’m trying not to argue with you anymore because it just hurts my head

spoken like a true assyrian girl, on the offensive

Quote
You’re a ridiculous human being.


Please stop talking

vanity_fair in her 'respect' mode

Quote
The best Christians I know don’t speak to people the way you speak to people. What does that tell you?

ummm refer to the above and YOU tell ME

Quote
Hay aquí mucho catolicismo...y muy poco reliHión

get your head out of the books

Quote
Your arrogance and stupidity apparently have no bounds. Well, good for you. I know you get away with a LOT of crap on this forum, but I’m just glad that the general public outside the AVN community would appose you to the end

assyrian girls natural instinct is to attack when her intelligence has been threatened

Quote
My God is nicer than your God, I guess.

???? you have ur own God? cool! where can i get one from?

Quote
Let's just say the God I believe in isn't exactly like the God found in the bible

deep deep deep statement this one! hmmm im starting to think ur the type of girl who HAS to be different and against everyone just for the sake of it, thats what they teach u in ur textbooks hey

Quote
I’ll give you one example. My philosophy teacher in high school was amazing. He’s probably one of the best people in the world. He LITERALLY took in homeless people during the coldest days of winter. He let them stay at his house, fed them, and took care of them. Because of this, his landlord threatened to evict him from his house. Instead of kicking out the homeless people, he chose to get evicted and ended up living in a woman’s shelter that he had built

He probably never even talked about God beyond the lectures that required the discussion


just cos his doing good deeds and not speaking about the bible DOES NOT mean he wasnt given love from God. were all given love from God, some ppl choose not to believe that and acknowledge it. your teacher is obviously doing it from the goodness of his heart, a trait of love given to him by God even if he hasnt mentioned it or believed it. your example means nothing

Quote
You’d convert more people with your deeds than your words

deep deep deep words again, found in the bible i believe. the same words spoken by God, are they spoken by YOUR God or someone elses?

enough of ur sykobabble vanity_fair, the bible is in black and white. if u CHOOSE not to take it literally then u start falling off the right path. u either believe what is written or not, any priest will tell u that. so dont come here and try to tell others that u choose to not take the bible literally, thats dangerous believe me.

my advice to u is steer clear of ur textbooks for a while and give up coffee. dont even think about reading the quran either

have a nice day

Offline KhIgGaAaAaAa

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  • GAWAR POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There seems to be some confusion...
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2006, 02:45:37 AM »
some of u dudes are such dorks bro, str8 up losers.   :blink:
Hooooy nazeh, nazeh, nazeh
hoooy nazeh shqilteyt libbee
la hoya shumthut libbee
dowkhineh qatekh khubee

Hooooy nazeh, nazeh, nazeh
hoooy nazeh bratit thoora
la daryet libbee noora
bit hawin qatekh khowra

Hooooy nazeh, nazeh, nazeh
hoooy nazeh bratit shara
belbooseyt mekh doh sahra
khazinekh b zreqtit bahra

Offline babylonx

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There seems to be some confusion...
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2006, 03:59:52 AM »
Quote from: Senalko
Quote from: babylonx
Quote from: Senalko


thats all it is....We are saved by GOD's Grace, by Faith... and NOT by doing good deeds as many christians teach and beleieve is the case :)



I disagree!
You can't say I believe Jesus died for my sins and continue to sin!
You are saved by faith and the works which show that your dedicated to your faith. You can't just sit home and say I'm faithful, you must preach, help others, etc. for Christ's sake, that is real faith!



Babylon, you are Saved by Faith alone... nothing else.... Works and good deeds Dont Save... they golrify the Lord and show your faith and obiedence to him but they will not save you...


In saying all that, No one can just say Jesus is my Savior, and then goes out of his way to commit many sins... I said that it has to come from your heart with Clean, clear intentions....

Once you are to that stage, then u Carry out your good deeds which u will be accounted for when jesus returns...

One Important note i must mention to you though, NOT everyone has to preach... NOT everyone has to be a leader, and not everyone has to do the same things in order for them to be accepted by GOD...

Paul, makes it quite Clear when he told his fellow christians that NOT all are suitable to be preachers, but that Each indivuial should Glorify the Lord with the Abilities and Qualities that he is got....

For example, The best way for me and You to preach the name of the lord is through the net, for others it could be just through talking to people or friends... for others it could be through books or whichever means...

Jesus never makes a step by step Manual as to what must be done... he says in his last words on earth to GO out to all nations and preach the Gospel, but he never says how or which way or approach to take....


AGAIN, reading through some of the comments made, Christians ARE NOT to convert anyone.... Christianty is not a Religion of Conversion.. We gain nothing and lose nothing by trying to Convert people... GOD will not give us extra Bonus points for the people We Convert, cuase Accepting Jesus into your lives Comes as a Result of GOD himself Drawing you to him, and not by human efforts.... :)


Ok, we both meant the same thing then. But about the preaching, I meant like you can't just keep Christ a secret and must always actively do something(whatever your good at like Paul said), and use it to spread the word about Christ.

Matthew 25:14-30
"For it is like a man, going into another country, who called his own servants, and entrusted his goods to them. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one; to each according to his own ability. Then he went on his journey. Immediately he who received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.  In like manner he also who got the two gained another two. But he who received the one went away and dug in the earth, and hid his lord’s money. "Now after a long time the lord of those servants came, and reconciled accounts with them. He who received the five talents came and brought another five talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents. Behold, I have gained another five talents besides them.’ "His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a few things, I will set you over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ "He also who got the two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents. Behold, I have gained another two talents besides them.’ "His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a few things, I will set you over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’  "He also who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter.  I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the earth. Behold, you have what is yours.’  "But his lord answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant. You knew that I reap where I didn’t sow, and gather where I didn’t scatter. You ought therefore to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back my own with interest. Take away therefore the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to everyone who has will be given, and he will have abundance, but from him who has not, even that which he has will be taken away. Throw out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’"

Therefore if you just keep your faith a secret like some individuals here say and do and are ashamed of telling people about God, then its the same as not believing in the first place.

Offline vanity_fair

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Re: .
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2006, 04:09:05 AM »
Quote from: JohnSydney

enough of ur sykobabble vanity_fair, the bible is in black and white. if u CHOOSE not to take it literally then u start falling off the right path. u either believe what is written or not, any priest will tell u that. so dont come here and try to tell others that u choose to not take the bible literally, thats dangerous believe me.

my advice to u is steer clear of ur textbooks for a while and give up coffee. dont even think about reading the quran either

have a nice day


Dude, I’ve never spoken to you on the forum before so I don’t know what you’re like outside of this one single post.  I’m sure you’re a decent guy.  Aren’t you the one who’s about to get married?  Congratulations on that, by the way.

(Just a warning, I’m about to get defensive and “attack” again.)

Anyway, I don’t think you should have taken apart random quotes from me without even considering the context in which they were said.  If you ever do get the chance to read this thread, please do and you might find some justice in what I’ve said.  Or you might not.  Either way, you’ll have the whole picture and maybe your opinion of me won’t be so low.  You might even understand what I wasn’t exactly in “respect mode.”  I was in defensive mode because I was being attacked.  I’m not generally a passive person so what other mode could I be in?  

And I don’t understand what you meant by your “typical Assyrian girl” comments.  I don’t know any girl, Assyrian or not, who wouldn’t get a little defensive when people question her intelligence.   Will you get in a defensive mode when I point out that it’s spelled psychobabble, not sykobabble?   And the fact that you kept using the word “offensive” when I think you mean defensive?  Or maybe you just meant I was being offensive.  When people question my intelligence and suggest that I’m not competent enough to argue my point, yes, I get defensive.  That’s pretty much human nature as far as I’m concerned and has nothing to do with being a “typical Assyrian girl.”

Hay aquí mucho catolicismo...y muy poco reliHión is just Spanish for “So much Catholicism, so little religion.”  I found it a long time ago and thought it was appropriate for this discussion.  I don’t know why that was offensive enough for you to point out.

I don’t even understand why you felt the need to belittle my intelligence with your sarcastic “deep deep deep statement” and “you have your own god?!” stuff.  I honestly don’t.  I’ve been raised with an image of God that seems radically different than the one babylonx and others have been raised with.

I don’t have the need to be different just for the heck of it.  I don’t even think I AM different.  I know plenty of people who share my view and have been raised with the same general principles.  This isn’t new and radical at all.  I’m not cool enough to be unique like that.

I’ve chosen not to take the bible literally all my life and I’m quite comfortable on what I think is the right path.  There’s more than one right path, fortunately.  I’ve spent most of my life in a Catholic education system and the college I belong to in university is the Catholic one (St. Michael’s College, U of T).  Believe me when I say that I’ve had plenty of chances to converse with priests and nuns about my views, and I have.  Some have disagreed with me, but most just wish me well.  None have given me a stern warning about falling off the right path.  They seem to think I’m doing okay.

The philosophy teacher that you’re talking about is actually a very religious man.  I guess this could apply to what babylonx was saying as well.  I went to a Catholic high school so he had every chance to preach to us if he wanted to.  Heck, my English Literature teacher spent half his time preaching to us about the salvation of our souls.  My philosophy teacher, however, didn’t try to sway our opinion one way or another.  Even though he himself was a devout Christian, he was only too happy to let us make up our own minds.  In fact, because it was Catholic school, the philosophy textbook was written in a way that took a very Catholic view of things, often downplaying atheist philosophers.  He didn’t seem to think that a biased textbook would benefit our education or developed our critical skills, so he basically ignored the recommended curriculum and gave us photocopies the whole year.  

My faith isn’t flimsy so I don’t find it a problem to look at Christian doctrine critically and figure it all out for myself.  Whenever I do question an aspect of Christianity, I seem to come out on the other end with a clearer understanding of my own faith.  That’s not a bad thing, is it?  Even though I’ve grown up believing that the bible is meant to be taken symbolically, it doesn’t mean I don’t understand their value.  They’re still extremely valuable because they’re religious texts.  They are not, however, historical texts.  

And I don’t see how reading scripture from other religions could hurt me in the least.  I’ve read long passages of the Qar’an for classes.  I’ve also read the religious writings for Zoroastrianism and Buddhism and other religions.  I don’t think I’m a worse person for it.  

The winter term just started so I can’t really avoid my books, and I can confidently say my coffee intake is average at best.  

That was a bit long winded, I know.  But ironically enough, I’m avoiding my readings for my Christian Scripture class.  And if you had any trouble with the diction I used in this post, this is a great online tool: http://www.m-w.com/.

Yeah, that last sentence was just me being a major biitch (as per usual).

Offline John_5_24

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There seems to be some confusion...
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2006, 08:47:48 AM »
Babylon and Senalko, I recently heard a rather brilliant, yet simple statement that I hope you will both agree with.

"You aren't saved by your works, but you aren't saved without them."

The point is that it's not the works that save you, it's faith.  BUT, if you have true faith, then you will certainly have good works done in the name of the Lord as well.

Again, I hope we can all agree on that.
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline Whatever

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Re: .
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2006, 09:46:42 AM »
Quote from: vanity_fair
Quote from: JohnSydney

enough of ur sykobabble vanity_fair, the bible is in black and white. if u CHOOSE not to take it literally then u start falling off the right path. u either believe what is written or not, any priest will tell u that. so dont come here and try to tell others that u choose to not take the bible literally, thats dangerous believe me.

my advice to u is steer clear of ur textbooks for a while and give up coffee. dont even think about reading the quran either

have a nice day


Dude, I’ve never spoken to you on the forum before so I don’t know what you’re like outside of this one single post.  I’m sure you’re a decent guy.  Aren’t you the one who’s about to get married?  Congratulations on that, by the way.

(Just a warning, I’m about to get defensive and “attack” again.)

Anyway, I don’t think you should have taken apart random quotes from me without even considering the context in which they were said.  If you ever do get the chance to read this thread, please do and you might find some justice in what I’ve said.  Or you might not.  Either way, you’ll have the whole picture and maybe your opinion of me won’t be so low.  You might even understand what I wasn’t exactly in “respect mode.”  I was in defensive mode because I was being attacked.  I’m not generally a passive person so what other mode could I be in?  

And I don’t understand what you meant by your “typical Assyrian girl” comments.  I don’t know any girl, Assyrian or not, who wouldn’t get a little defensive when people question her intelligence.   Will you get in a defensive mode when I point out that it’s spelled psychobabble, not sykobabble?   And the fact that you kept using the word “offensive” when I think you mean defensive?  Or maybe you just meant I was being offensive.  When people question my intelligence and suggest that I’m not competent enough to argue my point, yes, I get defensive.  That’s pretty much human nature as far as I’m concerned and has nothing to do with being a “typical Assyrian girl.”

Hay aquí mucho catolicismo...y muy poco reliHión is just Spanish for “So much Catholicism, so little religion.”  I found it a long time ago and thought it was appropriate for this discussion.  I don’t know why that was offensive enough for you to point out.

I don’t even understand why you felt the need to belittle my intelligence with your sarcastic “deep deep deep statement” and “you have your own god?!” stuff.  I honestly don’t.  I’ve been raised with an image of God that seems radically different than the one babylonx and others have been raised with.

I don’t have the need to be different just for the heck of it.  I don’t even think I AM different.  I know plenty of people who share my view and have been raised with the same general principles.  This isn’t new and radical at all.  I’m not cool enough to be unique like that.

I’ve chosen not to take the bible literally all my life and I’m quite comfortable on what I think is the right path.  There’s more than one right path, fortunately.  I’ve spent most of my life in a Catholic education system and the college I belong to in university is the Catholic one (St. Michael’s College, U of T).  Believe me when I say that I’ve had plenty of chances to converse with priests and nuns about my views, and I have.  Some have disagreed with me, but most just wish me well.  None have given me a stern warning about falling off the right path.  They seem to think I’m doing okay.

The philosophy teacher that you’re talking about is actually a very religious man.  I guess this could apply to what babylonx was saying as well.  I went to a Catholic high school so he had every chance to preach to us if he wanted to.  Heck, my English Literature teacher spent half his time preaching to us about the salvation of our souls.  My philosophy teacher, however, didn’t try to sway our opinion one way or another.  Even though he himself was a devout Christian, he was only too happy to let us make up our own minds.  In fact, because it was Catholic school, the philosophy textbook was written in a way that took a very Catholic view of things, often downplaying atheist philosophers.  He didn’t seem to think that a biased textbook would benefit our education or developed our critical skills, so he basically ignored the recommended curriculum and gave us photocopies the whole year.  

My faith isn’t flimsy so I don’t find it a problem to look at Christian doctrine critically and figure it all out for myself.  Whenever I do question an aspect of Christianity, I seem to come out on the other end with a clearer understanding of my own faith.  That’s not a bad thing, is it?  Even though I’ve grown up believing that the bible is meant to be taken symbolically, it doesn’t mean I don’t understand their value.  They’re still extremely valuable because they’re religious texts.  They are not, however, historical texts.  

And I don’t see how reading scripture from other religions could hurt me in the least.  I’ve read long passages of the Qar’an for classes.  I’ve also read the religious writings for Zoroastrianism and Buddhism and other religions.  I don’t think I’m a worse person for it.  

The winter term just started so I can’t really avoid my books, and I can confidently say my coffee intake is average at best.  

That was a bit long winded, I know.  But ironically enough, I’m avoiding my readings for my Christian Scripture class.  And if you had any trouble with the diction I used in this post, this is a great online tool: http://www.m-w.com/.

Yeah, that last sentence was just me being a major biitch (as per usual).


Don't mind John, he's a lovely boy. He's just being like this cos United just lost to City in the Manchester Derby...
'...here's Makalele. They can break here Chelsea. This could be the moment. Frank Lampard for Chelsea. It's Carvalho to his right. Lampard for the title...Lampard! It's 2-0, it's Chelsea's Championship and fifty years of waiting have come to an end...' 30th April 2005 - Reebok Stadium

Offline vanity_fair

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Re: .
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2006, 01:53:38 PM »
Quote from: Whatever

Don't mind John, he's a lovely boy. He's just being like this cos United just lost to City in the Manchester Derby...


hahahaha okay.  that must be it then.

 

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