Author Topic: does hell exist?  (Read 16030 times)

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Offline babylonx

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does hell exist?
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2005, 03:09:55 AM »
No im 50% barwarnaya, 25% Sitnaya and 25% Karemshaya!

Offline Senan

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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2005, 03:44:08 AM »
Quote from: babylonx
No im 50% barwarnaya, 25% Sitnaya and 25% Karemshaya!


satanaya??  that explains everything!!!!

angel2, hes hard headed cause hes got reinforced concrete for a brain iinside his head!

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2005, 03:47:19 AM »
Quote from: Malka_shomana
Quote from: babylonx
No im 50% barwarnaya, 25% Sitnaya and 25% Karemshaya!


satanaya??  that explains everything!!!!

angel2, hes hard headed cause hes got reinforced concrete for a brain iinside his head!


 :lol: yeah that explains it, but I shouldn't even be speaking because I'm the same thing :angel2: ..........the only difference is I have steel as a head
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2005, 03:48:31 AM »
Quote from: babylonx
No im 50% barwarnaya, 25% Sitnaya and 25% Karemshaya!


you mean satanaya :mrgreen:

why do you use this a lot !!!!!!!!!!!!..........everytime I see it I feel like you are screaming at me
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline Senan

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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2005, 03:50:41 AM »
r u talking to me?????

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2005, 03:52:20 AM »
la...........
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2005, 03:53:04 AM »
Saat was an Assyrian village in Southern Turkey before it was exiled by the Ottomans! Alaha Shakelokheen! LOL

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2005, 03:53:18 AM »
only the 1st statement I made
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline Angel2

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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2005, 03:54:13 AM »
Quote from: babylonx
Saat was an Assyrian village in Southern Turkey before it was exiled by the Ottomans! Alaha Shakelokheen! LOL


awhoooo there U start with the !!!!!!!!.............bassa with the screaming
"May the Lord Bless You & continually fill your heart with His Love. May He give you victory in every trial you face.....As you are blessed of the Lord, may you become a blessing in return to all those who share your life."   Audrey Jeanne Roberts

Offline babylonx

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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2005, 01:34:33 PM »
I love using !!!! AND LOLs!

Offline MXJSPH

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« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2005, 09:06:19 PM »
Quote
With dualism, I don't really understand how the soul can be immortal. If it's connected to a physical body, and then the body dies, then the soul should normally die too right? Which means that God's gift of eternal life would be going against what would normally happen. Which is the whole point - that eternal life is a gift to believers.


See.. thats why a dualist would argue that while our body may die, we are not one with our body, we are just intimately connected with it. We are seperate, hence 'dual' infering 2 parts: Our body, and our soul. Our body is obviously a mortal construct that is subject to time and death, however, our soul is immortal, it has 'no-parts'.. it is not made up of a collection of things, its not a compound, but one singular matter.. Therefore it cannot be destroyed or 'come-apart'. That was basically the argument. I'm not sure as to whether it is a completely valid one or not, but it does cohere with much religious idealogy.

Anyway,

Quote
As for your next paragraph, I used to lie awake at night when I was 7 freaking out about eternity (I was quite a strange child) so I can kind of see what you mean. What you said about being human though, well, as a Christian I would argue that the human qualities you mention are not how God intended us to be, that we weren't like that before the Fall, and that when we're restored by God our fickle natures won't be an issue. But me n u have got different world views, so it's hard to debate this when we're working off different assumptions, ay?


Most definetly, there will always be an issue when debating from different assumptions.. But I just work with what can communicate with my senses. Before the fall, we were unknowledgeable of vice, incapable of evil and the such.. Think on this if you are taking a creationalist perspective: If the apple symbolised knowledge when Adam and Eve bit into it, does that therefore imply knowledge itself is evil..? For we fell from grace once we acquired knowledge. They were innocent and free of temptation, but how would they remain thus..? If they did, none of us would ever have existed. And would there even be a need for heaven..? If heaven was simply on earth.
"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star? Thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small"

Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offline Ludikristen

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« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2005, 09:53:19 PM »
Quote from: MJaY
Quote
With dualism, I don't really understand how the soul can be immortal. If it's connected to a physical body, and then the body dies, then the soul should normally die too right? Which means that God's gift of eternal life would be going against what would normally happen. Which is the whole point - that eternal life is a gift to believers.


See.. thats why a dualist would argue that while our body may die, we are not one with our body, we are just intimately connected with it. We are seperate, hence 'dual' infering 2 parts: Our body, and our soul. Our body is obviously a mortal construct that is subject to time and death, however, our soul is immortal, it has 'no-parts'.. it is not made up of a collection of things, its not a compound, but one singular matter.. Therefore it cannot be destroyed or 'come-apart'. That was basically the argument. I'm not sure as to whether it is a completely valid one or not, but it does cohere with much religious idealogy.

Anyway,

Quote
As for your next paragraph, I used to lie awake at night when I was 7 freaking out about eternity (I was quite a strange child) so I can kind of see what you mean. What you said about being human though, well, as a Christian I would argue that the human qualities you mention are not how God intended us to be, that we weren't like that before the Fall, and that when we're restored by God our fickle natures won't be an issue. But me n u have got different world views, so it's hard to debate this when we're working off different assumptions, ay?


Most definetly, there will always be an issue when debating from different assumptions.. But I just work with what can communicate with my senses. Before the fall, we were unknowledgeable of vice, incapable of evil and the such.. Think on this if you are taking a creationalist perspective: If the apple symbolised knowledge when Adam and Eve bit into it, does that therefore imply knowledge itself is evil..? For we fell from grace once we acquired knowledge. They were innocent and free of temptation, but how would they remain thus..? If they did, none of us would ever have existed. And would there even be a need for heaven..? If heaven was simply on earth.


Interesting, I'll have to think on that a bit longer.
With the Adam and Eve thing, I'm not sure that the apple symbolised knowledge, cos God seemed to be into Adam and Eve acquiring knowledge in the garden, but maybe it symbolised greed. So we fell from grace once we tried to be power hungry and equal with God.
I don't know if it's helpful to think 'what if they hadn't accepted the apple?', cos they did and we can't change that. Maybe it would've made them stronger next time they faced temptation - who knows...
As for your (rhetorical?) question about the need for a heaven if heaven was simply on earth, that kind of relates back to a question I posted somewhere else about people not going to heaven, but there being a New Earth which God will give people (with Heaven being for spiritual beings). And I still don't feel like I've got a strong answer to that one lol. Anyone...?

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2006, 12:24:56 AM »
For those of you who think that Judaism and Christianity are two completely different religions, then I recommend you read the book of Hebrews because you’re really lost.

This book was another book written by a Jew to deal with the crisis of the Messianic Age.  Its purpose was to tie the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and Jesus (New Testament) together.  It describes a change in the way of thinking and the transition from old ways to the new ways.  It states that Jesus is the son of God and the world is created through him.  He brings peace and justice to the world.  Then it goes on to say that Jesus is the sacrifice and the high priest.  All this does not  mean that the new covenant is somehow superior to the old one.  Torah is incomplete.  It talks of an apocalyptic moment, but leaves you at a hole.  Jesus is here to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

The author of Hebrew attempts to explain that Jesus takes the place of the Temple.  Jesus is the high priest because in the absence of the Temple, and sacrifice, Jesus will fill the gap.  He does not trump the Torah, but instead becomes everything in association with it.
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Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2006, 12:39:08 AM »
Quote from: decorus<>celebrus


This book was another book written by a Jew to deal with the crisis of the Messianic Age...The author of Hebrew attempts...


Who do you believe wrote Hebrews?  It's been the source of much debate.  You referenced the author a few times, who do you think it is?
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2006, 12:51:17 AM »
And another thing:

In Jeremiah, it says that if Jews don't get their act together, God will destroy the Temple.  Once the punishment is fulfilled, God will restore them.  The new covenant will be God's law written on people's heart.  Just because he talks about a new covenant dos not mean we have something that's outdated.  Jesus was Jewish and he supported the commandments and sacrifice.  The new religion was an adjustment, not a replacement.

The author of Hebrews is a Utopian,  which means he doesn't believe in rebuilding Jerusalem.  He feels that we're going to a place we've never seen before.  Just like Ezekiel, he does not believe Heaven and Earth are identical.  Heaven is the truth and greater reality, where we have a heavenly temple.  This is the reason why gentiles are accepted.  They don't need to be focused on Israel because it can fall apart and it needs to be maintained.  And so in conclusion, humanity can be very wicked and does not do justice that's why the fault is not with Torah.
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Offline Nuray

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« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2006, 12:52:24 AM »
I think he was a Jewish follower of Jesus Christ.
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Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2006, 02:39:30 AM »
i think it was Paul

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2006, 02:48:19 AM »
decorus<>celebrus
Quote
All this does not mean that the new covenant is somehow superior to the old one


i like the points you make, but what about
Heb 8:6-7  But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Offline Nuray

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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2006, 03:55:43 AM »
One thing you have to understand is that the Gospels were supposed to be written for the oppressed, not the powerful.  According to Duetromistic theology, Jesus was not a righteous man because he suffered.  Opening of Ezekiel as well as Job is when Apocalypse surfaces.  These two books explained that sometimes, the righteous do suffer unjustly.  This explains why Jesus, the righteous man can be beat to death and still be righteous and a winner.  

Like I said before, the author says they are living in an apocalyptic age and he writes this to the Jewish followers of Jesus living at a time when the Temple no longer exists to give them hope.

There is no doubt that Solomon’s Temple  was a major destination and glorious.  But God says the second Temple is better because people need encouragement and hope.  And they need to stop thinking about the past and that the Messianic Age was all a  hoax.  After Jesus resurrected, he went straight to heaven where he can be our high priest forever.  When the Temple fell, this meant that the priest had died, but Jesus will be permanent in heaven.  
 :angel2:
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Offline John_5_24

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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2006, 08:33:09 AM »
Quote from: BroonitBeita
i think it was Paul

I would be inclined to agree.  I believe it was either Paul or Barnabbas.
Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

 

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