Author Topic: Language in our country  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline Neta1991

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Language in our country
« on: April 28, 2017, 08:54:14 AM »
If we were to get a country what language would we speak? if we take back an old language and teach our children that will we lose the west and east assyrian language? Clearly these both languages are not dialects, they are related languages because if they were dialects then we would understand each other. Maybe it would be better not to unite and let the two languages evolve on their own? what do you think? Do we want to lose our language?



Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 01:06:44 PM »
If we were to get a country what language would we speak? if we take back an old language and teach our children that will we lose the west and east assyrian language? Clearly these both languages are not dialects, they are related languages because if they were dialects then we would understand each other. Maybe it would be better not to unite and let the two languages evolve on their own? what do you think? Do we want to lose our language?

Standard Syriac. It's a form of Sureth I've planned that combines both Western Syriac and Eastern Syriac by mixing certain dialectal attributes.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »
Standard Syriac. It's a form of Sureth I've planned that combines both Western Syriac and Eastern Syriac by mixing certain dialectal attributes.

Can u show me wikipedia link or anything else? l would like to read about that language.....

Assyrian Voice Forum

Re: Language in our country
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 07:54:11 PM »
Can u show me wikipedia link or anything else? l would like to read about that language.....
He made it up. You can see that he said "that I planned".

I think we should speak whatever Assyrian dialect we're accustomed of.
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Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 11:05:39 AM »
He made it up. You can see that he said "that I planned".

I think we should speak whatever Assyrian dialect we're accustomed of.

Why not speak the edessa syriac, clearly that was the syriac we spoke before? Its called classical syriac or estrangelo, its also the oldest
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 11:20:19 AM by Neta1991 »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 07:36:51 PM »
Why not speak the edessa syriac, clearly that was the syriac we spoke before? Its called classical syriac or estrangelo, its also the oldest
Obviously we can't.

It's like saying "why don't we speak old English?".

Languages evolve, for better or for worse. You cannot change it.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 08:26:49 PM »
Obviously we can't.

It's like saying "why don't we speak old English?".

Languages evolve, for better or for worse. You cannot change it.

not to mention that certain dialects also hold forms of other Aramaic dialects that existed alongside old Syriac. A good example is the verbal add on "-le" which existed in other unknown Aramaic dialects but not in Syriac.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 01:54:14 PM »
Why not speak the edessa syriac, clearly that was the syriac we spoke before? Its called classical syriac or estrangelo, its also the oldest

How can we be united with one language then? We must in the end teach our children one language which all assyrians understand.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 08:27:06 AM »
What would be our language in our country? West assyrian or east assyrian or different syriac? Our official teaching language

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2017, 08:41:45 AM »
What would be our language in our country? West assyrian or east assyrian or different syriac? Our official teaching language
East Assyrian of course. It's the most common language among us.

No need for "different Syriac". Who speaks it? Very few obviously. So why make it harder for us? Let's speak whatever language we're used to.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2017, 09:39:29 AM »
East Assyrian of course. It's the most common language among us.

No need for "different Syriac". Who speaks it? Very few obviously. So why make it harder for us? Let's speak whatever language we're used to.
I think it would be better to remove all foreign words from our language and take words from both west and east assyrian languages and make it a better language, could that work?

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2017, 10:34:32 AM »
I would also suggest that our second and third language would be english and arabic, that would be awesome!!!:D:D:D

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2017, 05:52:56 PM »
I would also suggest that our second and third language would be english and arabic, that would be awesome!!!:D:D:D

only during high school and college. The only secondary language to learn during younger ages is Akkadian so we can use that as our scientific language.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2017, 07:52:34 PM »
only during high school and college. The only secondary language to learn during younger ages is Akkadian so we can use that as our scientific language.

I dont think that would happen, probably syriac.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2017, 08:15:36 PM »
I think it would be better to remove all foreign words from our language and take words from both west and east assyrian languages and make it a better language, could that work?
I agree with that.

Let's replace car with "radayta" and good with "tawdi", etc. Of course, I'll be speaking in an eastern dialect whilst uttering these words.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2017, 01:47:55 AM »
Is lishana atiqa and kthobonoyo the same language? Then why not make that our speaking language?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2017, 03:23:02 AM »
Is lishana atiqa and kthobonoyo the same language? Then why not make that our speaking language?
yes. The first one is just "old language" while second is "book-language" which refers to written Sureth aka Classical Syriac.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2017, 03:20:42 PM »
yes. The first one is just "old language" while second is "book-language" which refers to written Sureth aka Classical Syriac.

so you are saying that lishana atiqa and kthobonoyo are classical syriac?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2017, 07:51:34 PM »
so you are saying that lishana atiqa and kthobonoyo are classical syriac?
yes, they both refer to the same thing.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2017, 10:12:47 AM »
yes, they both refer to the same thing.

but eastern assyrian writing system is different from west assyrian, maybe we should fix that problem so that it become one writing system..... and then we can focus on talking kthobonoyo.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2017, 05:01:03 PM »
but eastern assyrian writing system is different from west assyrian, maybe we should fix that problem so that it become one writing system..... and then we can focus on talking kthobonoyo.

not really that different. I learned both. I even made this -> http://assyrianic.deviantart.com/art/Syriac-Aramaic-Diagram-Chart-479930235

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2017, 10:14:13 AM »
Is kthobonoyo estrangelo? Estrangelo is the oldest assyrian language

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2017, 10:52:54 AM »
Is kthobonoyo estrangelo? Estrangelo is the oldest assyrian language
Estrangelo is a writing system. It's a variant of the Syriac script.

Others are Madnhaya and Serto.
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Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2017, 10:02:55 PM »
Estrangelo is a writing system. It's a variant of the Syriac script.

Others are Madnhaya and Serto.

^True.

Madnkhaya is the modern eastern Script, Serto is the modern western script whilst Estrangela is the classical ancestor of both.

Kthobonoyo/ktavanaya just means literary. For example, Surit ktavanaya means literary Assyrian/Syriac.
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Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 04:43:46 AM »
Whats the writing system of kthobonoyo? Cant we speak estrangelo?

Offline Sharukinu

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2017, 03:01:06 PM »
Whats the writing system of kthobonoyo? Cant we speak estrangelo?

If you read the last two answers, it's said that Estrangela is just a script. As already stated, kthobonoyo/ktavanaya just means literary so it's just an adjective that means pertaining to writing or literature. Literary Surit refers to any accepted form of written Surit, especially forms that are formal, official, academic, professional etc.
“It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another.”

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Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2017, 06:10:07 PM »
Sharukinu what Do u think will be the official writing and talking language in our country?  One of them will certainly be forgotten in the future

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2017, 03:58:47 AM »
Standard Syriac. It's a form of Sureth I've planned that combines both Western Syriac and Eastern Syriac by mixing certain dialectal attributes.

Will it work? If so that would be awesome.  I would like to learn the language that will be the official teaching language in Assyria but dont know what language it will be, your solution is good, then no assyrian will be jealous of which language it will be. But then newer generations will forget our dialects. But how will you Do, will you contact the nineveh plains government in the future or what?

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2017, 04:20:22 PM »
Will it work? If so that would be awesome.  I would like to learn the language that will be the official teaching language in Assyria but dont know what language it will be, your solution is good, then no assyrian will be jealous of which language it will be. But then newer generations will forget our dialects. But how will you Do, will you contact the nineveh plains government in the future or what?

I don't see why it wouldn't work unless I fail to properly "advertise" it.

Standard Syriac would combine the best parts of both major dialects.

Here's the thing though, since we're combining major dialects, the younger will actually be able to understand all dialects except maybe vocabulary.

For writing, I was thinking why not use ALL our writing systems? For handwriting, we can use SerTo/Syriac Orthodox writing. For writing scientific and academic papers, we'll use MadnHaya/Eastern writing. For government/legal/religious writing, we'll use Estrangelo since it's the oldest and should have the highest respect in these regards.

That is just the writing portion of Standard Sureeth.

For language, Standard will combine Western Syriac's use of all the original sounds in our alphabet with Eastern Syriac's vowel pronounciations.
in terms of grammar, I say we use the easiest grammar of both.

I'm also hoping for a language cleanup by replacing all the foreign Turkish, Kurdish, modern Persian, and Arabic words with unused Syriac words or make new Syriac words.

I also heard that many Arabic words, especially mathematic and scientific ones, were actually made by Assyrians in medieval times, so we can use the roots of those words and simply apply Syriac grammar to them.

One thing I thought up to help the transition is having Assyrian kids listen and talk to each other in both major dialects.

My hypothesis is that many Eastern Assyrians do not understand Western Assyrians good because Easterns never had much experience in understanding Western Syriac.

I can understand Western Syriac but I have to slow down and listen closely to understand the words and grammar because I've never spoken or heard Western Syriac as a young boy.

Also Neta, the younger generation won't forget older dialects because today's dialects are all recorded in song and we have an online Syriac dictionary to help with unknown vocabulary ;)

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2017, 04:52:08 PM »
I don't see why it wouldn't work unless I fail to properly "advertise" it.

Standard Syriac would combine the best parts of both major dialects.

Here's the thing though, since we're combining major dialects, the younger will actually be able to understand all dialects except maybe vocabulary.

For writing, I was thinking why not use ALL our writing systems? For handwriting, we can use SerTo/Syriac Orthodox writing. For writing scientific and academic papers, we'll use MadnHaya/Eastern writing. For government/legal/religious writing, we'll use Estrangelo since it's the oldest and should have the highest respect in these regards.

That is just the writing portion of Standard Sureeth.

For language, Standard will combine Western Syriac's use of all the original sounds in our alphabet with Eastern Syriac's vowel pronounciations.
in terms of grammar, I say we use the easiest grammar of both.

I'm also hoping for a language cleanup by replacing all the foreign Turkish, Kurdish, modern Persian, and Arabic words with unused Syriac words or make new Syriac words.

I also heard that many Arabic words, especially mathematic and scientific ones, were actually made by Assyrians in medieval times, so we can use the roots of those words and simply apply Syriac grammar to them.

One thing I thought up to help the transition is having Assyrian kids listen and talk to each other in both major dialects.

My hypothesis is that many Eastern Assyrians do not understand Western Assyrians good because Easterns never had much experience in understanding Western Syriac.

I can understand Western Syriac but I have to slow down and listen closely to understand the words and grammar because I've never spoken or heard Western Syriac as a young boy.

Also Neta, the younger generation won't forget older dialects because today's dialects are all recorded in song and we have an online Syriac dictionary to help with unknown vocabulary ;)

One question, will we west and east assyrians understand the new language without learning it? And is the new language easy to learn for us west and east assyrians?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 05:00:04 PM by Neta1991 »

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2017, 05:43:12 PM »
Why not make both west and east languages official, the newer generation will learn both languages? As writing, west could be for science and east for academic or voice versa? What Do you think? Then we wont lose our languages which took forever to build. I think it is possible to have 2 official languages. Right now in nineveh plains wikipedia it say official languages is neo aramaic, but we could change that in the future to assyrian.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 05:46:25 PM by Neta1991 »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2017, 08:22:09 PM »
Right now in nineveh plains wikipedia it say official languages is neo aramaic, but we could change that in the future to assyrian.
Assyrian is Neo-Aramaic.

Just like Italian is Italic.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2017, 09:53:34 PM »
One question, will we west and east assyrians understand the new language without learning it? And is the new language easy to learn for us west and east assyrians?
"will we west and east assyrians understand the new language without learning it?"
For the most part yes!
"new language easy to learn for us west and east assyrians?"
yes but it'll probably still take time to get used to it.

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2017, 02:40:50 AM »
Assyrian is Neo-Aramaic.

Just like Italian is Italic.

I know but wouldnt it better to change the name to assyrian?

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2017, 03:19:15 AM »
I know but wouldnt it better to change the name to assyrian?
It is Assyrian for short.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2017, 05:47:15 PM »
It is Assyrian for short.

I didnt understand that

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2017, 08:46:54 PM »
I didnt understand that
Assyrian Neo-Aramaic can always be "Assyrian" for short. You don't have to say "I speak Assyrian Neo-Aramaic". You can just say "I speak Assyrian".
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2017, 04:07:29 PM »
I who speak western assyrian, what should l call my language? assyrian or syriac or something else? if l call it assyrian then they think l speak the eastern dialect, thats why l am wondering this.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
I who speak western assyrian, what should l call my language? assyrian or syriac or something else? if l call it assyrian then they think l speak the eastern dialect, thats why l am wondering this.
just call it western Syriac?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2017, 11:34:56 PM »
I who speak western assyrian, what should l call my language? assyrian or syriac or something else? if l call it assyrian then they think l speak the eastern dialect, thats why l am wondering this.
Turoyo.

Isn't it generally called that?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2017, 09:30:34 AM »
Is serto modern Western Assyrian talking language (turoyo)that has been written down, and madenhoyo modern talking language of the eastern assyrians that also has been written down?

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2017, 08:45:05 PM »
Is serto modern Western Assyrian talking language (turoyo)that has been written down, and madenhoyo modern talking language of the eastern assyrians that also has been written down?
Yes. Although we also use estrangelo too. Not sure if westerners use it too in addition to Serto?
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Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2017, 11:48:42 PM »
I think that probably it will be both west and east assyrian that kids will learn, but the east dialect will be the talking language. While this is good because then we Western Assyrians dont need to learn east assyrian to talk to future assyrians and we wont be afraid of losing our turoyo language in the future. In the future probably east and west will be used all the time and like today we might use loanwords in our countries language, we will Do the same with east and west dialects which will make it develop together. And when it comes to tv, probably they will Do the same as suroyo tv, which means use both dialects. This is about our future language in our country.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 11:49:49 PM by Neta1991 »

Offline Neta1991

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2017, 12:01:51 PM »
I am trying to learn west assyrian now, Do you think its possible to have both languages learned in our country? My language is west assyrian and l cant speak very good that language but l think we will be learning west and east assyrian in our country.

Offline mrzurnaci

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Re: Language in our country
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2017, 03:39:56 AM »
I am trying to learn west assyrian now, Do you think its possible to have both languages learned in our country? My language is west assyrian and l cant speak very good that language but l think we will be learning west and east assyrian in our country.
or like what happened to Assyrians who lived in Hakkari and went to Iraq because Seyfo, the dialects will just merge... The only way to understand dialects is for our kids to listen and hear them.

 

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