Author Topic: TIL: An Assyrian girl was killed by Kurds in Nahla in 1999, Assyrians retaliated  (Read 2100 times)

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Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Today I learned: On July 17, 1999 an armed group belonging to the Patriotic Revolutionary Organization of Bet Nahrain attacked a PDK Peshmerga position in the region in retaliation of the murder of an Assyrian girl. The attack resulted in 39 deaths and 20 injured on the Kurdish side.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahla,_Iraq



Offline Cascade

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How unchristian of the Assyrians here.

Not happy.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Today I learned: On July 17, 1999 an armed group belonging to the Patriotic Revolutionary Organization of Bet Nahrain attacked a PDK Peshmerga position in the region in retaliation of the murder of an Assyrian girl. The attack resulted in 39 deaths and 20 injured on the Kurdish side.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahla,_Iraq

isn't that Dowronoye?

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Offline kulan-suryoye

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Yes they were dowronoye, belonging to the GHB (Gabo d' Hirutho d'Beth Nahrin) "Mesopotamian Freedom Party" militia.

Offline mrzurnaci

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How unchristian of the Assyrians here.

Not happy.

yea and how Muslim of them...


Offline mrzurnaci

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You're always betching and crying about how Assyrians don't defend themselves because of Christianity and priests, and now look what you're commenting.

what are you talking about? I'm replying "How Muslim of Kurds to do such a thing"

Offline mrzurnaci

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About the Kurds killing or the Assyrians?

Because you replied to Neon's comment saying

'yea how muslim of them' Saying like you're disgusted with the Assyrian's retaliation.

no, it was good that Assyrians retaliated.

Offline Cascade

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Yes they were dowronoye, belonging to the GHB (Gabo d' Hirutho d'Beth Nahrin) "Mesopotamian Freedom Party" militia.
Why am I not surprised that they were western Assyrians?

no, it was good that Assyrians retaliated.
You didn't get Domanic's point. You defend Christianity because it has placated us (which is true), and now you're like "it's good they retaliated", which goes against your narrative.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Why am I not surprised that they were western Assyrians?
You didn't get Domanic's point. You defend Christianity because it has placated us (which is true), and now you're like "it's good they retaliated", which goes against your narrative.


I don't defend Christianity for placating us, if I did then I retract that, I defend Christianity only in the case that it allowed us to cement our culture (considering our previous cultures and Christianity weren't too different) and that Christianity allowed us to survive through the hardships brought by Islam while Assyrian pagans, who still believed in our old gods, pretty much went the way of the dodo bird.

However, just because I defend Christianity does not mean I defend every part of it. The place where we live has danger and we need to protect ourselves. The Kurds who killed the little girl thought they could do that and not expect a reaction from the "peaceful" Christians.

Christianity has no doctrine against the use of self defense and defensive fighting.
https://americanvision.org/12889/jesus-guns-and-self-defense-what-does-the-bible-say/

that's obviously some American Protestant stuff but I'll find an orthodox one. EDIT: here's one from Russia -> http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/96216.htm

Jesus said that our beliefs will get us persecuted, thus it makes sense that the verses hinge on self-defense but the Bible is also careful to say not to be "offensively-defensive" by saying "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword"

"As for the first question, there is nothing in Scripture that prohibits the private ownership of weapons. The passage in Luke 22 does not require us to own them, but it does not forbid them either.

The problem is that, usually, oppressors don't stop oppressing the weak simply because we ask them nicely to do so. More often than not, force, or at least the threat of force is necessary. So do these scriptures contradict the commands of Christ? No, they refer to defending others, not to seeking revenge."

And this is just the Orthodox view.

Offline Cascade

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I don't defend Christianity for placating us, if I did then I retract that, I defend Christianity only in the case that it allowed us to cement our culture (considering our previous cultures and Christianity weren't too different) and that Christianity allowed us to survive through the hardships brought by Islam while Assyrian pagans, who still believed in our old gods, pretty much went the way of the dodo bird.

However, just because I defend Christianity does not mean I defend every part of it. The place where we live has danger and we need to protect ourselves. The Kurds who killed the little girl thought they could do that and not expect a reaction from the "peaceful" Christians.

Christianity has no doctrine against the use of self defense and defensive fighting.
https://americanvision.org/12889/jesus-guns-and-self-defense-what-does-the-bible-say/

that's obviously some American Protestant stuff but I'll find an orthodox one. EDIT: here's one from Russia -> http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/96216.htm

Jesus said that our beliefs will get us persecuted, thus it makes sense that the verses hinge on self-defense but the Bible is also careful to say not to be "offensively-defensive" by saying "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword"

"As for the first question, there is nothing in Scripture that prohibits the private ownership of weapons. The passage in Luke 22 does not require us to own them, but it does not forbid them either.

The problem is that, usually, oppressors don't stop oppressing the weak simply because we ask them nicely to do so. More often than not, force, or at least the threat of force is necessary. So do these scriptures contradict the commands of Christ? No, they refer to defending others, not to seeking revenge."

And this is just the Orthodox view.

Defending ourselves is one thing, but going out for blood and being vengeful is another.

Btw, that website you linked is very conservative Evangelical American. They have a very distorted view of Jesus's teachings, making him seem like he is someone who preached violence (when you and I know that this isn't the case). They're like Muslims who interpret the Muhammad's teachings to be all generous and peaceful, when it's the opposite.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Defending ourselves is one thing, but going out for blood and being vengeful is another.

Btw, that website you linked is very conservative Evangelical American. They have a very distorted view of Jesus's teachings, making him seem like he is someone who preached violence (when you and I know that this isn't the case). They're like Muslims who interpret the Muhammad's teachings to be all generous and peaceful, when it's the opposite.

I know, I already put down that it was American protestant crap. Did you look at the Orthodox one though?

Offline Cascade

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I know, I already put down that it was American protestant crap. Did you look at the Orthodox one though?
Yeah, still similar. Interpreting it to their own ways.

Again, self-defense is one thing and vengeance is another. Jesus was really clear on revenge though. We can't interpret that part.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Yeah, still similar. Interpreting it to their own ways.

Again, self-defense is one thing and vengeance is another. Jesus was really clear on revenge though. We can't interpret that part.

Jesus idea of revenge is to let a higher authority (God) take care of the person who did you wrong. Secondly, how can you follow such a command against a WHOLE religion that tells its followers to do wrong? I'm pretty sure when Jesus talked about forgiveness and not taking revenge, it applies to CIVILIZED people.
https://bible.org/seriespage/6-sweet-revenge-matthew-538-42-romans-1217-21

Offline Mr. Tambourine Man

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Good. This is exactly what we need.
''An anthropologist squeezed my arm, just for the satisfaction of having touched the flesh and blood of an Assyrian.'' - Ivan Kakovitch

Offline Bronit Omta

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They're mainly Assyrians who are "Syriac Orthodox adherents".

"Dawronoye" literally means "revolutionary" in the Suryoyo dialect.

We need Assyrians like this who will retaliate if Assyrians are treated unfairly by anyone. This goes to not only Kurds but Arabs, Turks and other cultures persecuting us and stopping our right for a nation.

Offline Cascade

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Jesus idea of revenge is to let a higher authority (God) take care of the person who did you wrong. Secondly, how can you follow such a command against a WHOLE religion that tells its followers to do wrong? I'm pretty sure when Jesus talked about forgiveness and not taking revenge, it applies to CIVILIZED people.
https://bible.org/seriespage/6-sweet-revenge-matthew-538-42-romans-1217-21
That Evangelical American guy who wrote this article is looking WAY DEEP into it.

He's viewing Jesus like how Muslim apologists view him as ("Jesus is just as bad as Muhammad derp derp"). Can't believe you're falling for that.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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That Evangelical American guy who wrote this article is looking WAY DEEP into it.

He's viewing Jesus like how Muslim apologists view him as ("Jesus is just as bad as Muhammad derp derp"). Can't believe you're falling for that.

I'm not. I can adequately say that excessive violence is bad and that Jesus is right that living violently will end badly, but on the other hand, you can't live life or lead a country in a pacifist tone. Jesus himself did know that his followers and believers would be persecuted but he also knew that acting violently would cause a bad name for his believers so, plain and simple, he allows for self defense but nothing beyond that.

There's a very good reason why Ancient Babel had the "eye for an eye" law. If we are treated badly and still being treated badly, we can't just sit and tolerate that.

Offline Cascade

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I'm not. I can adequately say that excessive violence is bad and that Jesus is right that living violently will end badly, but on the other hand, you can't live life or lead a country in a pacifist tone. Jesus himself did know that his followers and believers would be persecuted but he also knew that acting violently would cause a bad name for his believers so, plain and simple, he allows for self defense but nothing beyond that.

There's a very good reason why Ancient Babel had the "eye for an eye" law. If we are treated badly and still being treated badly, we can't just sit and tolerate that.
Look, you're right that we shouldn't live like pacifist angels and we should always be ready to use self-defense. However, let's not throw it on Jesus's mouth by saying "well, the dude taught self-defense". So yes, we can't live life in a pacifist tone, but what does Jesus have to do with it? He's a religious leader anyway. What does he have to do with our nation and politics?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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Look, you're right that we shouldn't live like pacifist angels and we should always be ready to use self-defense. However, let's not throw it on Jesus's mouth by saying "well, the dude taught self-defense". So yes, we can't live life in a pacifist tone, but what does Jesus have to do with it? He's a religious leader anyway. What does he have to do with our nation and politics?

this is just a suspicion but I found it strange how our churches, especially the Chaldean church, was against the idea of having an Assyrian militia. I brought this up because I was thinking the ambiguity whether Jesus said yes or no to self defense was a factor in such a deciision. that or an Assyrian militia would directly challenge the authority of the churches.

Offline Cascade

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this is just a suspicion but I found it strange how our churches, especially the Chaldean church, was against the idea of having an Assyrian militia. I brought this up because I was thinking the ambiguity whether Jesus said yes or no to self defense was a factor in such a deciision. that or an Assyrian militia would directly challenge the authority of the churches.
We Assyrians can be hostile and militant. We go to war in the name of our country. After all, we did have a very hawkish past.

This has nothin' to do with Jesus.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline mrzurnaci

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We Assyrians can be hostile and militant. We go to war in the name of our country. After all, we did have a very hawkish past.

This has nothin' to do with Jesus.

if that's the case, I have no understanding as to why we weren't assembling militias before ISIS went into Nineveh Plains.


 

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