Author Topic: Best political system for Assyrians?  (Read 5659 times)

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Offline Etain

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Best political system for Assyrians?
« on: December 13, 2015, 02:40:50 AM »
Assuming that unfortunately, Assyria will never have its own state in Nineveh,which would benefit Assyrians most?
1.)A  completely independant Kurdistan where Assyria has largely autonomous status
2.) Syria and Iraq if things get back to status quo.
3.) Bilad al sham. A single state encompassing Syria,Iraq and Lebanon and possibly other parts of the Levant. Imagine it being secular and progressive.Imagine Ba'athism,minus the insanity.



Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 03:23:00 AM »
They all sound reasonable. But I'd go with A).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Kebabsås

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 05:32:08 AM »
number 2 I don't trust the Kurd's. even if we have autonomy in "Kurdistan" our leader will be some Kurdish loving guy implemented by Barzani.
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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 05:32:08 AM »

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 05:37:19 AM »
1 without the "Kurdistan" I don't trust Kurds, they are sneaky and are pretending to care about the Assyrians for media attention.

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 06:04:58 PM »
I think 1 or 2 sound reasonable and possible. 3 is too ambitious  :giggle:
Or maybe something like Great Britain  (Scotland, Wales and England) -> (Shia-stan, Kurdistan and Assyria) - then Assyria can split from the rest just like Scotland wanted to.

Offline ins001

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 01:37:50 AM »
I think 1 or 2 sound reasonable and possible. 3 is too ambitious  :giggle:
Or maybe something like Great Britain  (Scotland, Wales and England) -> (Shia-stan, Kurdistan and Assyria) - then Assyria can split from the rest just like Scotland wanted to.
lol good idea

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 09:22:23 PM »
I think 1 or 2 sound reasonable and possible. 3 is too ambitious  :giggle:
Or maybe something like Great Britain  (Scotland, Wales and England) -> (Shia-stan, Kurdistan and Assyria) - then Assyria can split from the rest just like Scotland wanted to.

Only way for that to really happen is if we had a single unified language (or at least writing system)

I doubt Kurds and Shi'a Arabs would want to learn Aramaic, MAYBE the Shi'a if we can successfully replace Arabic with it but definitely not Kurds...

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 09:48:12 PM »
I think 1 or 2 sound reasonable and possible. 3 is too ambitious  :giggle:
Or maybe something like Great Britain  (Scotland, Wales and England) -> (Shia-stan, Kurdistan and Assyria) - then Assyria can split from the rest just like Scotland wanted to.
What about Sunnis?

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2015, 10:00:16 PM »
What about Sunnis?

Their independence is called "ISIS".

Offline Kelba

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2015, 10:31:18 PM »
#2

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2015, 11:50:48 PM »
Their independence is called "ISIS".
Lol good one.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 12:04:47 AM »
Their independence is called "ISIS".
Your 16 year old opinion is noted.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 12:06:18 AM »
Your 16 year old opinion is noted.
Why, because he grilled Islam/Sunnism?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline ins001

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2015, 12:41:15 AM »
Your 16 year old opinion is noted.
Get over it, you little baby.

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2015, 02:40:58 PM »
Why, because he grilled Islam/Sunnism?
Get over it, you little baby.
It's stupid to suggest all Sunnis are ISIS supporters.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 05:21:42 PM »
It's stupid to suggest all Sunnis are ISIS supporters.

Etain, I'll be the civil one here and say you're right to say that not all Sunnis are ISIS supporters BUT...

If you read about every single persecution that happened to Assyrians, it was all under Sunni Muslim leadership or rule...

Here are a few notable examples.

Assyrian genocide -> perpetrated by Sunni Muslim Turks who enticed Sunni Muslim Kurds to help them with the promise of loot and money.

Invasion of Timur -> Timur's invasion of Northern Mesopotamia is the sole reason why we are a minority in our very own homeland. Timur himself was a Sunni Muslim.

Our modern persecution by ISIS whom are also Sunni Muslims of course...

Our persecution and discrimination by the Baathist parties in both Syria and Iraq. Iraq's baathist party was majority Sunni Muslim with Syria's exception of a Shi'a Muslim despite Iraq's baathist party discriminating against Assyrians alot worse than Syria's...

The fact that the only Middle Eastern country with a large size of non-Muslims that is under Muslim rule is Iran which is Shi'a Majority.

The Shi'a majority were even nice enough to allow Assyrians and JEWS to vote for someone to represent them in their parliament. What Sunni Muslim country do you think would do that?

How about a non-Assyrian example using Pakistan which is majority Sunni Muslim with Shi'as, Christians, and Ahmadis being persecuted?

The only time Sunni Muslims are truly peaceful is when they have no political/military power whatsoever...

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 11:20:50 PM »
Etain, I'll be the civil one here and say you're right to say that not all Sunnis are ISIS supporters BUT...

If you read about every single persecution that happened to Assyrians, it was all under Sunni Muslim leadership or rule...

Here are a few notable examples.

Assyrian genocide -> perpetrated by Sunni Muslim Turks who enticed Sunni Muslim Kurds to help them with the promise of loot and money.

Invasion of Timur -> Timur's invasion of Northern Mesopotamia is the sole reason why we are a minority in our very own homeland. Timur himself was a Sunni Muslim.

Our modern persecution by ISIS whom are also Sunni Muslims of course...

Our persecution and discrimination by the Baathist parties in both Syria and Iraq. Iraq's baathist party was majority Sunni Muslim with Syria's exception of a Shi'a Muslim despite Iraq's baathist party discriminating against Assyrians alot worse than Syria's...

The fact that the only Middle Eastern country with a large size of non-Muslims that is under Muslim rule is Iran which is Shi'a Majority.

The Shi'a majority were even nice enough to allow Assyrians and JEWS to vote for someone to represent them in their parliament. What Sunni Muslim country do you think would do that?

How about a non-Assyrian example using Pakistan which is majority Sunni Muslim with Shi'as, Christians, and Ahmadis being persecuted?

The only time Sunni Muslims are truly peaceful is when they have no political/military power whatsoever...
I don't like Sunnis. I understand the Gulf Sunni powers are pretty much evil,but it is unfair to equate them all as such.
To my knowledge, the Sunnis in Saddam's power circle in Iraq were much more moderate and more concerned with power than religion.

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »
Etain, I'll be the civil one here and say you're right to say that not all Sunnis are ISIS supporters BUT...

If you read about every single persecution that happened to Assyrians, it was all under Sunni Muslim leadership or rule...

Here are a few notable examples.

Assyrian genocide -> perpetrated by Sunni Muslim Turks who enticed Sunni Muslim Kurds to help them with the promise of loot and money.

Invasion of Timur -> Timur's invasion of Northern Mesopotamia is the sole reason why we are a minority in our very own homeland. Timur himself was a Sunni Muslim.

Our modern persecution by ISIS whom are also Sunni Muslims of course...

Our persecution and discrimination by the Baathist parties in both Syria and Iraq. Iraq's baathist party was majority Sunni Muslim with Syria's exception of a Shi'a Muslim despite Iraq's baathist party discriminating against Assyrians alot worse than Syria's...

The fact that the only Middle Eastern country with a large size of non-Muslims that is under Muslim rule is Iran which is Shi'a Majority.

The Shi'a majority were even nice enough to allow Assyrians and JEWS to vote for someone to represent them in their parliament. What Sunni Muslim country do you think would do that?

How about a non-Assyrian example using Pakistan which is majority Sunni Muslim with Shi'as, Christians, and Ahmadis being persecuted?

The only time Sunni Muslims are truly peaceful is when they have no political/military power whatsoever...


I think Sunnis cause the most trouble because they're the majority within that region. However, both of sects (Sunnis and Shias) are guilty of persecution against the other muslim sect. For instance, the Iranian sunnis (Mainly laristanis), baluchis (sunnis) and non-muslims (bahais) have faced major persecution by Iran since 1979 but, it's not given enough publicity because Iran is NOT vocal like Stupid Saudi. Most of the above have moved to the gulf region mainly Oman,UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain to escape persecution. Not to mention, that Hezoballah army (Shia army) is split from the lebanese army (The country's army - druze,christians and sunnis) because they're allied with Iran and wish to serve Iran (As quoted by my Lebanese maronite best friend), in other words, when chaos happens that army will only serve the shias.

Anyhow, Saudi began spreading it's cancerous Wahhabism to the Sunnis in every neighbouring gulf country vocally whilst Iran spreads its extremist Shi'ism behind the doors. We're probably going to experience WW3 soon, but, I hope they're sensible enough to realise it will cause a large economic loss.

I, being an Ibadi, I'm scared from both sides (especially nowadays, we never used to have problems back in 2010 before the arab spring) and I prefer not to engage with any politically. However, from my personal experience and my grandparents', Sunnis were much nicer but then again it's OUR experience and your experience was different. For instance, my grandfather worked in Bahrain and Kuwait because they were prosperous back then and had education as well as job opporutnities. The shias made it clear that the jobs are to only be occupied in this order/priority: 1) Bahrani (Without an i - The shia population of Bahrain) 2) Bahraini (The sunni population) 3) Gulf with the exception of Omani Ibadis...so they really weren't nice either.  Also, the first church to be built in the UAE for the non-native christians was approved by the Sunnis in the late 50s or 60s while the Shias heavily opposed it (scholars and shias in Sharjah) and kept causing tensions until above late 80s. They then got over it and accepted it. I honestly believe the sects and who's better would be dependent on each country for instance, I would pick sunnis in Bahrain, shias in Iraq, sunnis in Lebanon, shias in Syria. As for your example about Iran being the muslim majority and being nice to non muslims, that's invalid. The gulf countries do not have a non muslim population (unless they're non-native living in the UAE or bahais pre-1971 hence they have their nationality), if anything, a fair comparison inclusive of M.E christians being treated well, would be between Jordan and Iran (Sunni Arab and Shia with native non muslims).

In conclusion, there will ALWAYS be an oppressed minority whether we like it or not, be it: Verbal (bullying or racism) or physical abuse EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD (we can't see or know about everything in this world). Ok, I hate politics so enough, but, we just have to solve things with a strong will, dignity and ears open to listen to all sides. Trust me, we did not have it easy for us (us Northern emiratis).. I could talk about murder pre-1971, but, bun that since everyone has blood on their hands in the M.E :) and we're living happily right now or, at least before WW3 starts  :loool:


Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2015, 09:50:57 PM »
Only way for that to really happen is if we had a single unified language (or at least writing system)

I doubt Kurds and Shi'a Arabs would want to learn Aramaic, MAYBE the Shi'a if we can successfully replace Arabic with it but definitely not Kurds...

Hmm, use English as your language of communication? It's THE international language. (That's what India does, a lot of killing and protests occurred between the people because they argued that Hindi shouldn't be the main language and they eventually came up with this solution, actually, the solution came up by itself when all of them learnt english and communicated with one another). Yeah, middle easterners are stubborn so the shias and kurds won't learn aramaic and the same applies to you guys.

For GB, Welsh use Welsh in Wales and it's even considered an IGCSE subject in the recognised English examination certificate (Grade 10 to 11) yet they use English to communicate with one another.

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2015, 09:54:35 PM »
What about Sunnis?

Problem is with Sunnis is they're all over Iraq rather than being concentrated in one region however, alot are in the Nineveh area. So, they have all 3 options to live under.  :)

Offline ins001

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2015, 01:12:09 AM »
Yeah, middle easterners are stubborn so the shias and kurds won't learn aramaic and the same applies to you guys.
What do you mean?

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2015, 10:21:16 AM »
What do you mean?

Mzurnaci said that if Iraq is to be similar to GB then you need a unified language. He said that shias might be willing to learn aramaic as the unified language but, kurds not so much. Therefore, I replied back that Middle easterners are stubborn no one is going to agree to learning aramaic,arabic or kurdish (not their language) as the unified language..so the best solution would be english.  :)

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2015, 11:46:02 AM »
Mzurnaci said that if Iraq is to be similar to GB then you need a unified language. He said that shias might be willing to learn aramaic as the unified language but, kurds not so much. Therefore, I replied back that Middle easterners are stubborn no one is going to agree to learning aramaic,arabic or kurdish (not their language) as the unified language..so the best solution would be english.  :)

Not even with an Aramaic-version Qur'an? :)

Syriac-Aramaic is older than Arabic, it's very easy (assuming you have professionals) to translate all of Islam into Syriac.

Offline ins001

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2015, 01:28:05 PM »
Mzurnaci said that if Iraq is to be similar to GB then you need a unified language. He said that shias might be willing to learn aramaic as the unified language but, kurds not so much. Therefore, I replied back that Middle easterners are stubborn no one is going to agree to learning aramaic,arabic or kurdish (not their language) as the unified language..so the best solution would be english.  :)
Thank you for the clarification, but what did you mean by "Middle Easterners are stubborn...and the same applies to you"?
That we don't want to learn Aramaic or Arabic?

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2015, 02:14:17 PM »
Not even with an Aramaic-version Qur'an? :)

Syriac-Aramaic is older than Arabic, it's very easy (assuming you have professionals) to translate all of Islam into Syriac.

Well, you could suggest that to them and see however, kurds definitely won't agree on speaking Syriac.

Thank you for the clarification, but what did you mean by "Middle Easterners are stubborn...and the same applies to you"?
That we don't want to learn Aramaic or Arabic?

Meaning that if say aramaic is chosen to be the unified language, kurds and arabs will object to that. If arabic is chosen to be the unified language, assyrians and kurds will object to that. If kurdish is chosen to be the unified language, arabs and assyrians will object to that. So, all three are stubborn, however, I think they will agree on using English as a unified language. (NOTE: This is when we're talking about an Iraq of 3 autonomies rather than a Baathist Iraq or a Secatarian Iraq).

Offline ins001

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2015, 02:40:12 PM »

Offline Googoo

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2015, 02:46:01 PM »
Hey, I never said that!

I don't know how to quote two things in one message, sorry, I mixed them together.

This was my reply to you:

Meaning that if say aramaic is chosen to be the unified language, kurds and arabs will object to that. If arabic is chosen to be the unified language, assyrians and kurds will object to that. If kurdish is chosen to be the unified language, arabs and assyrians will object to that. So, all three are stubborn, however, I think they will agree on using English as a unified language. (NOTE: This is when we're talking about an Iraq of 3 autonomies rather than a Baathist Iraq or a Secatarian Iraq).

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2015, 03:18:57 PM »
Iraqis should view Aramaic as part of their heritage,a link to an ancient glorious past. As I have said before, that appeal will work  best towards younger Iraqis.

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2015, 03:42:42 PM »
Well, you could suggest that to them and see however, kurds definitely won't agree on speaking Syriac.


With Kurds forget it lol. Kurds are like Muslim versions of Assyrians ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2016, 09:55:45 PM »
Etain, I'll be the civil one here and say you're right to say that not all Sunnis are ISIS supporters BUT...

If you read about every single persecution that happened to Assyrians, it was all under Sunni Muslim leadership or rule...

Here are a few notable examples.

Assyrian genocide -> perpetrated by Sunni Muslim Turks who enticed Sunni Muslim Kurds to help them with the promise of loot and money.

Invasion of Timur -> Timur's invasion of Northern Mesopotamia is the sole reason why we are a minority in our very own homeland. Timur himself was a Sunni Muslim.

Our modern persecution by ISIS whom are also Sunni Muslims of course...

Our persecution and discrimination by the Baathist parties in both Syria and Iraq. Iraq's baathist party was majority Sunni Muslim with Syria's exception of a Shi'a Muslim despite Iraq's baathist party discriminating against Assyrians alot worse than Syria's...

The fact that the only Middle Eastern country with a large size of non-Muslims that is under Muslim rule is Iran which is Shi'a Majority.

The Shi'a majority were even nice enough to allow Assyrians and JEWS to vote for someone to represent them in their parliament. What Sunni Muslim country do you think would do that?

How about a non-Assyrian example using Pakistan which is majority Sunni Muslim with Shi'as, Christians, and Ahmadis being persecuted?

The only time Sunni Muslims are truly peaceful is when they have no political/military power whatsoever...
^This
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Kebabsås

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2016, 09:14:30 PM »
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Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2016, 01:37:35 AM »
Exactly what i needed

 :loool: funny how it's $0.'69'.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2016, 02:16:54 AM »
How do these scammers find this website? Even Assyrians barely know it....
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2016, 12:04:06 PM »
How do these scammers find this website? Even Assyrians barely know it....

Wait, you guys never tell anyone about this website?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 12:17:54 AM »
1 without the "Kurdistan" I don't trust Kurds, they are sneaky and are pretending to care about the Assyrians for media attention.
Don't make Alan mad now.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline carlos7ja

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 09:27:44 AM »
none !
i would shake hands with the devil to get Assyrians their rights, but not trusting ppl from that middle east
my grandfather lived n died orphan because his whole family were killed in iraq. he was the sweetest person i've evr known.
his blood still runs in my veins and i trust no one to take our rights.
those who believe otherwise are dreaming! point !
---------------------------------------------------------
My assyrian blood is 6767 years old
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Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2017, 01:33:14 PM »
the best system would be a republic (ܩܘܛܢܝܘܬܐ)

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2017, 05:08:04 PM »
A completely indépendant Kurdistan will happen for sure , but in 100 years or more .There is a lot to be weeded out in the region for that to happen especially iran and turkey . Would the Assyrian be sitting on the fence these 100 years ? and would the kurd bother with assyrian at that time ? would the migration of assyrian continue ?

I believe Assyrian and Christians in general  will get their cultural rights, language rights and equal opportunity , but nothing more . In terms of independence or real autonomy , i do not believe that will ever happen due to many factors .

1-Their numbers : which according not so trusted source  does not exceed 200-300 thousands people spreaded across Kurdish region with very few areas having any density . So unless a reverse migration happens it will be very difficult to achieve anything .

2-With freedom of religion in Kurdistan many kurds are converting to Christianity and that is very bad for Assyrian aspiration , because their loyalty will always be to kurdistan .

3-For anything to happen Assyrian are forced to take sides and they always lose more than they gain . If they side with kurds , they anger the arabs (shia and sunna ) . If they side with Shia ,there will be consequence from kurds and sunna and so on . There is no winning formula and it is very hard to please everyone .

4-Very little work is being done by assyrians to achieve any form of unity with Chaldean or even within Assyrian political parties who are divided with their loyalty .
 



Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2017, 08:56:02 PM »
A completely indépendant Kurdistan will happen for sure , but in 100 years or more .There is a lot to be weeded out in the region for that to happen especially iran and turkey . Would the Assyrian be sitting on the fence these 100 years ? and would the kurd bother with assyrian at that time ? would the migration of assyrian continue ?

I believe Assyrian and Christians in general  will get their cultural rights, language rights and equal opportunity , but nothing more . In terms of independence or real autonomy , i do not believe that will ever happen due to many factors .

1-Their numbers : which according not so trusted source  does not exceed 200-300 thousands people spreaded across Kurdish region with very few areas having any density . So unless a reverse migration happens it will be very difficult to achieve anything .

2-With freedom of religion in Kurdistan many kurds are converting to Christianity and that is very bad for Assyrian aspiration , because their loyalty will always be to kurdistan .

3-For anything to happen Assyrian are forced to take sides and they always lose more than they gain . If they side with kurds , they anger the arabs (shia and sunna ) . If they side with Shia ,there will be consequence from kurds and sunna and so on . There is no winning formula and it is very hard to please everyone .

4-Very little work is being done by assyrians to achieve any form of unity with Chaldean or even within Assyrian political parties who are divided with their loyalty .
 





Not to burst your bubble but...

Da Kurds: Boo Hoo Who?
Why Kurdistan is not a nation and never will be By Gary Brecher
http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=14150&IBLOCK_ID=35

to answer your questions in order.

1. You're making the same argument every Kurd and their dad says and, like them, you keep ignoring the possibility of Diaspora Assyrians returning. Even if it's a small possibility, that doesn't mean it won't happen.
2. Not unless they convert to the Assyrian churches but that's a different story.
3. Why should Assyrians be forced to take sides in matters that does not concern or affect us?
4. How are you so sure on that? You're not active with the Assyrian community other than posting here.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2017, 10:25:43 PM »
Honestly I do predict free Kurdistan whithin 10 years or something. Our biggest enemy, Turkey and the Turks, is heading toward the abyss. Things are going very fast now. This year Erdogan wants to become a dictator in Turkey, it will give the Northern Kurds from Bakur the best opportunity in 100 years to beak away and become free.

Turkey is in the world of sh*t. Turks are in panic, otherwise there would be no crazy things happening in Turkey. Turks don't know what they must do and don't know how to stop 50 million Kurds. They think Erdogan is their messiah, but Erdogan is actually doing the worst things for Turkey. When Turkey will become a failed dictator state nobody will take that Islamo-fascist dictator state seriously.

Nobody expected the fall of the USSR, and that happened just in 1 night!


Turks are in panic and they can't stop Rojava. When people are in panic they taking the worst options.

It is 100% finished with Turkey. I have absolutely no doubts about it. There is no way out or any chance for Turkey. The more they resist, the more it becomes painful for them.

or it'll give Erdogan the best reason to discreetly wipe out Kurds from Turkey. He'll just use the war as an excuse to commit atrocities and the UN will ignore it since Turkey is part of the NATO.

Offline carlos7ja

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2017, 09:11:54 AM »
Read alot of posts, well i'm wonderin' why the hell some members are like intruders?
like who invited them in? and who is the administrator ? why there's no control on the identity of the members?
i thought it was assyrianvoice? alll what i can see, non assyrians posting **** and spam all over the forum!
Am I in the wrong forum?

i would like from the administrator with alldue respect to send me a private message and explain it to me please.
Thank you

Carlos
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My assyrian blood is 6767 years old
----------------------------------------------------------

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2017, 11:18:44 AM »
It is not possible to wipe out the Kurds.
You seriously don't get it...
Erdogan doesn't have to wipe out Kurds, he only needs to destroy your influence in Turkey... That should've been self-explanatory without me having to say it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 11:19:32 AM by mrzurnaci »

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2017, 11:20:14 AM »
Read alot of posts, well i'm wonderin' why the hell some members are like intruders?
like who invited them in? and who is the administrator ? why there's no control on the identity of the members?
i thought it was assyrianvoice? alll what i can see, non assyrians posting **** and spam all over the forum!
Am I in the wrong forum?

i would like from the administrator with alldue respect to send me a private message and explain it to me please.
Thank you

Carlos

There's still more Assyrians here than others.

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2017, 08:49:56 PM »
Not to burst your bubble but...

Da Kurds: Boo Hoo Who?
Why Kurdistan is not a nation and never will be By Gary Brecher
http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=14150&IBLOCK_ID=35


It is a paid article ? Saying they exist or not does not really change nothing does it ?


to answer your questions in order.

1. You're making the same argument every Kurd and their dad says and, like them, you keep ignoring the possibility of Diaspora Assyrians returning. Even if it's a small possibility, that doesn't mean it won't happen.


So you did not read what I wrote ?

2. Not unless they convert to the Assyrian churches but that's a different story.


Really ? honestly i never thought that religion or sect is that important within the assyrian community . 

3. Why should Assyrians be forced to take sides in matters that does not concern or affect us?


Again you did not read my post .

4. How are you so sure on that? You're not active with the Assyrian community other than posting here.

Well is there ? housing poject , a hospital ?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2017, 09:40:00 PM »
Really ? honestly i never thought that religion or sect is that important within the assyrian community .  ?
It is actually, but not for all of us, such as myself and other secular Assyrians.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2017, 10:08:32 PM »
Looking back.
I don't see a Kurdistan where Assyrians aren't oppressed. They will have to be called Christian Kurds!

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2017, 10:48:15 PM »
It is a paid article ? Saying they exist or not does not really change nothing does it ?

So you did not read what I wrote ?

Really ? honestly i never thought that religion or sect is that important within the assyrian community . 

Again you did not read my post .
Well is there ? housing poject , a hospital ?

Your people and ours live in a region where Religion is pretty much the damn law and you're surprised whether or not religion/sect is important in the community?

"Would the Assyrian be sitting on the fence these 100 years ? and would the kurd bother with assyrian at that time ? would the migration of assyrian continue ?
I believe Assyrian and Christians in general  will get their cultural rights, language rights and equal opportunity , but nothing more . In terms of independence or real autonomy , i do not believe that will ever happen due to many factors . "

to answer those in order...

yes, we would be "sitting on the fence" aka be Neutral. The Middle East has seen enough war, how about a peaceful period? Wouldn't you like to see a peaceful period where the society can simply develop and advance?

Would Kurds bother with Assyrian neutrality? It happened during the PUK-KDP civil war...

if Assyrians will only get cultural, language rights and equal opportunity, than why should Kurds be given independence?

Look how small Switzerland is but not even that size is allowed for us?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 10:53:01 PM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2017, 11:14:19 PM »
Look how small Switzerland is but not even that size is allowed for us?
Don't forget the very successful and prosperous Luxembourg, which is even smaller.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2017, 11:21:23 PM »
Don't forget the very successful and prosperous Luxembourg, which is even smaller.
true but most people know Switzerland than Luxembourg

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2017, 01:21:14 AM »
true but most people know Switzerland than Luxembourg
Doesn't make Luxembourg any less significant though, considering it's the richest country in the world per GDP.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2017, 11:55:08 AM »
Doesn't make Luxembourg any less significant though, considering it's the richest country in the world per GDP.

Luxembourg has a total population of 500k+. Population density @ 222.8/km2 (577.0/sq mi)

Switzerland has total population of 8m. Population density @ 202/km2 (523.2/sq mi)

Switzerland has a Nominal Total GDP of $651.770 billion (2016)

Luxembourg has a Nominal Total GDP of $60.176 billion (2016)

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2017, 04:23:50 PM »
Your people and ours live in a region where Religion is pretty much the damn law and you're surprised whether or not religion/sect is important in the community?

Not really  , did not know , but thank you for clarification .

"Would the Assyrian be sitting on the fence these 100 years ? and would the kurd bother with assyrian at that time ? would the migration of assyrian continue ?
I believe Assyrian and Christians in general  will get their cultural rights, language rights and equal opportunity , but nothing more . In terms of independence or real autonomy , i do not believe that will ever happen due to many factors . "

to answer those in order...

yes, we would be "sitting on the fence" aka be Neutral. The Middle East has seen enough war, how about a peaceful period? Wouldn't you like to see a peaceful period where the society can simply develop and advance?
I certainly understand neutrality and i see no good coming from Assyrian involvement in war torn region and i think i pointed that clearly .The issue or the question was  why would Kurds bother giving any form of autonomy or Independence to Assyrian if they have zero contributions ?. I certainly hope they get some form of autonomy even without contribution , but i do not think many would share my views . 

Would Kurds bother with Assyrian neutrality? It happened during the PUK-KDP civil war...
if Assyrians will only get cultural, language rights and equal opportunity, than why should Kurds be given independence?
Look how small Switzerland is but not even that size is allowed for us?
So Kurdistan should then be divided to autonomous Cantons , One for Assyrian , one for Chaldean , one for Turkmans, one for shabak , one for Yazidis ,One for sabaa and mandan , one for shias....etc  ..... They are all unique with deep history in the region . Would you agree ? 

What does given Kurdistan the independence have to do with assyrian given autonomy ? I failed to understand that . Are the two somehow connected ?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2017, 07:25:09 PM »
Luxembourg has a total population of 500k+. Population density @ 222.8/km2 (577.0/sq mi)

Switzerland has total population of 8m. Population density @ 202/km2 (523.2/sq mi)

Switzerland has a Nominal Total GDP of $651.770 billion (2016)

Luxembourg has a Nominal Total GDP of $60.176 billion (2016)
Our population is more close to 1 million than 8 million (we're 3 million), so we will be more comparable to countries like Luxembourg.

That's the NOMINAL total GDP. Even poor countries (China, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, India) fare quite high in it.

Try this list (gross domestic product at purchasing power parity per capita): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Notice how Qatar, Kuwait, Luxembourg and Norway are at the top? These are rich countries with high standards of living.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2017, 09:17:49 PM »
Not really  , did not know , but thank you for clarification .
no prob.

I certainly understand neutrality and i see no good coming from Assyrian involvement in war torn region and i think i pointed that clearly .The issue or the question was  why would Kurds bother giving any form of autonomy or Independence to Assyrian if they have zero contributions ?. I certainly hope they get some form of autonomy even without contribution , but i do not think many would share my views .

From what I've seen, Assyrians have already contributed, mostly non-military but contributions are contributions.
What kind of contributions? Schools, ideas, and the same things we've contributed to the Persian empires...

So Kurdistan should then be divided to autonomous Cantons , One for Assyrian , one for Chaldean , one for Turkmans, one for shabak , one for Yazidis ,One for sabaa and mandan , one for shias....etc  ..... They are all unique with deep history in the region . Would you agree ? 

What does given Kurdistan the independence have to do with assyrian given autonomy ? I failed to understand that . Are the two somehow connected ?

you're misunderstanding. You're saying we can't seriously get autonomy even though there are fully independent and sovereign countries that have a smaller population than us.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2017, 09:21:17 PM »
Our population is more close to 1 million than 8 million (we're 3 million), so we will be more comparable to countries like Luxembourg.

That's the NOMINAL total GDP. Even poor countries (China, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, India) fare quite high in it.

Try this list (gross domestic product at purchasing power parity per capita): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Notice how Qatar, Kuwait, Luxembourg and Norway are at the top? These are rich countries with high standards of living.

our population is 4-5 million and that does make a difference unless you're talking the likely amount of Assyrians that would live in Assyria.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-more-useful-measure-to-judge-a-nations-economy-GDP-nominal-or-GDP-PPP-and-why

"GDP per capita (PPP) takes into consideration that the money can buy a different amount of goods in each country."

"GDP stands for Gross Domestic Product. It is the value of all the final goods and services produced within the boundary of a nation during one year."

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2017, 11:19:01 PM »
Looking back.
I don't see a Kurdistan where Assyrians aren't oppressed. They will have to be called Christian Kurds!

kys

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2017, 11:49:32 PM »
you're misunderstanding. You're saying we can't seriously get autonomy even though there are fully independent and sovereign countries that have a smaller population than us.
realistically , I would have to say no ,however I think mini Quebec  within Kurdistan would be nice , but that is just me romanticizing .

The problem with our region is that no one wants to get to know anyone and everyone thinks that the other is danger to their existence . The nationalists on both sides just keep throwing wood in the fire and that is no good for anybody especially Assyrian .

If there is a chance to establish an assyrian autonomous region , where would that be ? If you can be specific if you are familiar with the region .
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 11:57:57 PM by nejepnerast »

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2017, 12:04:09 PM »
realistically , I would have to say no ,however I think mini Quebec  within Kurdistan would be nice , but that is just me romanticizing .

The problem with our region is that no one wants to get to know anyone and everyone thinks that the other is danger to their existence . The nationalists on both sides just keep throwing wood in the fire and that is no good for anybody especially Assyrian .

If there is a chance to establish an assyrian autonomous region , where would that be ? If you can be specific if you are familiar with the region .

Nineveh Plains, *plain* and simple.

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
Nineveh Plains, *plain* and simple.
I get it , but where in Nineveh Plains ? have you ever been to Nineveh Plains?

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2017, 05:09:53 PM »
There is no difference between DAESH and those Kurds who try to assimilated other ethnic groups. People should stay who they are. Semites (Assyrians) should stay Semitic and Aryans (Kurds) should stay Aryan.
I'm not aware of Kurds trying to assimilate anyone . Has there been any cases ? As far as I know they do not accept non kurds as kurds . Kurdistanis perhaps , but never as Kurds .
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 05:10:41 PM by nejepnerast »

Offline Kelba

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2017, 07:23:47 PM »
those interracial marriages are not enough, far from thanks GOD, to change our Aryan DNA

lol

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2017, 09:24:56 PM »
What is so funny about it? I was very serious. No matter where a Kurd is from, his/her DNA is still West Iranian (aka Aryan). As an Ezdi Kurd my DNA is identical to Zazaki, Sorani or Feyli Kurds. Let alone with Sunni Kurmanji Kurds from Dohuk who were just 150 years ago still Ezdi Kurds.

You can't determine by our DNA who is a Sunni Kurmanji or Sorani, who is Ezdi, who is Zazaki, who is Feyli etc. Because there is no difference in our DNA. My people have always been Ezdi as long as we do exist, otherwise I would be never an Ezdi. And my DNA is identical to other Kurds. That means that Kurdish Aryan (West Iranian) DNA is not really affected by the interracial mariages with the Turco Mongoloids, Armenians (Urartu) and Semites.


And I'm glad that we are still the same as our ancesotrs. We are not a mongrel 'bastard' race like Turks or Arabs. We know our roots and we have great ancient West Iranian (aka Aryan) roots.
Well, it's "funny" because you're too preoccupied by the racial construct of your own people (Aryan this, Aryan that), where you include your fellow Iranians, Afghans and Kurds, as if you're one big ethnic group. All these people have their own unique culture, so why combine them in the name of race? I'm pretty sure that even Germans and Austrians, being so homogeneous, have their own ethnic identity and are proud to distinguish themselves. What's wrong with being a proud, independent Yazidi?

It's like that typical African who is obsessed with "mother Africa" and his sub-saharan race, rather than his actual African ethnicity (Nigerian, Kenyan, etc). Why? Maybe because he knows that his African ethnic group has contributed nothing to society? Does this logic apply to you too, since, well, Yazidis did not have a rather compelling history compared to Persians, Assyrians, Babylonians, etc?

Why don't you be proud of your own ethnicity and leave race out of it? Being West Iranian doesn't make you superior (nor inferior for that matter). You just have originated there, just the same way Assyrians have roots to the Levant.

You're a Yazidi. So have pride in that ethnicity per se. After all, Yazidis have their own rich culture where it has nothing to do with Islam, amazingly. Leave out the rather Islamicized cultures of Iranians and Kurds, I say. You don't need to claim that you're a descendant of Aryan people (not saying that you aren't) to validate your ethnic identity. Just simply say you're a proud Yazidi? At least your username got that right in a way.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2017, 04:09:39 PM »
I met 'Sunni' Kurds who are married with Turkmen or even Palestinians. For them it doesn't matter to what race they belong, all that matters is that they are 'Sunni'. So, those so called Kurds, consider themselves as 'Sunni' Muslims first and secondary Kurdish. They are part of 'Islam Nation' and not a Kurdish nation. Those 'lost' Sunni Kurds are a 'tool' for our enemies especially the Turks. Mongoloid Turks are using those lost Sunni ex-Kurds as much as possible.

That does not address my question and your accusation of kurds assimilating other culture .You are talking about kurds getting assimulated into other culture . Strange response .
 
How many Armenians or Assyrians became Sunni Muslims. I'm sure we can speak about thousands. Of course those interracial marriages are not enough, far from thanks GOD, to change our Aryan DNA. But they do exist. Even the user 'Alan' confessed that he has got some Jewish/Assyrian Semitic roots.

Still way off the topic .

The biggest problem (quest) for the true pure remained (Ezdi) Kurds is the following. Those Sunni ex-Kurds who were part of the Islam Nation and want to come back to their roots. In many cases we don't know who they were in the past.

Yes i'm (Ezdi) Kurds , i feel so special , I have better blood immuned to all diseases , perfect nose , perfect ears ...what planet you come from ?

Were they pirs, mridis or shexs in the past? Because even within our Ezdi community it is forbidden to marry between 3 different Ezdi groups.
I'm a normal Ezdi 'Mrid', like the most Ezdi. It is forbidden for my children to marry with Ezdi 'Pir'. It is a great sin.


I can not believe you are proud of that ,Do you consider yourself inferior to Pirs ? You know in the old days brothers and sisters in the old kingdoms used to get married to each other to keep the blood "Pure " . When it comes to religion it all boils down to Sex and money , nothing more . 




« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 04:28:31 PM by nejepnerast »

Offline Etain

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2017, 03:16:41 PM »
lol kurds

Offline nejepnerast

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2017, 04:35:04 PM »
No, it were the Kurds who assimilated other cultures. The children of those who are interracially married are accepted by the Sunni Muslim Kurds as part of their people.

That is not assimilation my dear , it is interracial marriage . So if a Kurd (man or women ) marry's a non kurd they should just give their children away , because their pure Ezidi Kurd got tainted ?

You don't understand anything about the Ezdi (West Iranian) culture. It is the will of our God that is goes how it goes.
I understand Ezidi culture very well . Like majority of cultures and religions there is plenty of good things and plenty of idiotic things in it

Mridis can't marry the Shexs or Pirs
The Pirs can't marry the Mridis or Shexs
The Shexs can't marry the Pirs or Mridis

That it makes yazidi culture special  :biggrin:? Do you agree with that ?

Why? Because all those 3 groups represent something specific divine and should stay pure. It is not about 'inferiority'. It is all about the 'PURITY'! In our civil society a Mridi can be a leader of the Pirs. A Mridi can be an 'Agha'. Most of the time a Mridi are more wealthier than Pirs. My grandfather had a good job. A lot of Ezdi Pirs and Shexs worked under my grandpa. He was their boss and he a Mridi.

What you said is that you still live in 14th century . Backward society which is divided to masters and slaves . superior and inferior , status or no status .
 
There is a difference between a spiritual world and a civil society. According to a spiritual world an Ezdi society should stay divided between 3 groups. Mridis are as divine s Shexs or Pirs. Without the Mridis there whould be no Pirs, etc..

yes i get it , God said that right ? Your God have too much time in his hand . He is busy deciding who can f...uck who ? So If you  f..ck the wrong person he will be furious and f..ck you up ? . Sorry for the language , but could not find a more suitable word . Tell me what did this purity that you seem to be so proud of ever did for yazidis ?

Watch this if you are open to learn something about our 'West Iranian' religion. It is for a huge part in Kurmanji
I will , thank you 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 04:36:52 PM by nejepnerast »

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2017, 05:12:33 PM »
going back on topic, a good political system (im assuming government) at this moment would be a republican, presidential system.

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2017, 11:36:26 PM »
Like in the States? Is the American model, the best model?

And EVERY culture is different. For each culture you need an adapted model.

You can't apply the same system to different cultures.


First you need to do is to study how your society is composed + in what kind of the environment they live.

Why does KRG use a presidential congress then?

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2017, 11:51:47 PM »
With other words, because of purity we still do exists since the dawn on man. Purity = survival in your original form!
Not sure about Yazidi Kurds (since they haven't been Islamicized), but the Islamic Kurds and Iranians are certainly NOT "pure". Due to the Islam conquest, they would have been mixed with Arabs, as the Arabs took over Iran and most of western Asia.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Online mrzurnaci

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2017, 12:07:50 AM »
Not sure about Yazidi Kurds (since they haven't been Islamicized), but the Islamic Kurds and Iranians are certainly NOT "pure". Due to the Islam conquest, they would have been mixed with Arabs, as the Arabs took over Iran and most of western Asia.

Not just that but what about Mongols and Turkic peoples that lived in the Central Asian part of the Persian empire? Other Aryan people like Hindus?

Not only that but Assyrians, Arabs, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Armenians, etc.

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2017, 01:43:24 AM »
Not just that but what about Mongols and Turkic peoples that lived in the Central Asian part of the Persian empire? Other Aryan people like Hindus?

Not only that but Assyrians, Arabs, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Armenians, etc.
Yes, them too. Especially Central Asians (Mongoloids) and South Asians (although they're Aryan).
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline john11121

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2017, 12:26:38 AM »
3 would be best. a multi cultural, libertarian-ish society. you have your own property and you can be WHATEVER culture you want, on your own property.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 12:39:34 AM by john11121 »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2017, 11:06:13 PM »
3 would be best. a multi cultural, libertarian-ish society. you have your own property and you can be WHATEVER culture you want, on your own property.
That will be good, yes. But let's hope we won't be extremely liberal where people can identify as toothpicks.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2017, 08:05:25 PM »
That will be good, yes. But let's hope we won't be extremely liberal where people can identify as toothpicks.

or better, why not an honest to god mix of authoritarianism and libertarianism? Something similar to Singapore.

"If all the 300 (top civil servants and political elite) were to crash in one jumbo jet, then Singapore will disintegrate."
~On how Singapore cannot afford the luxury of multiparty politics, 1975. Lee Kuan Yew.

Future Assyria will require a political elite. Etain was right to say that a democratic Assyria will not likely survive in the Middle East.
A political elite can best decide what actually is right assuming they have a sense of reality. Singapore was originally anti-Natalist, favoring lowering the birth rate but then they switched positions to becoming pro-natalist and favored increasing birth rates.

a government is supposed to be the brain of the country, just like a brain, governments regulate according to

Neon, you should definitely read the ideas Lee Kuan Yew had, the guy even saw what kind of religion Islam was...

"I have to speak candidly to be of value, but I do not want to offend the Muslim community... I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came, and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration – friends, inter-marriages and so on – than Muslims... I would say, today, we can integrate all religions and races, except Islam."

    from his book 'Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going' (Asia One, March 08 2011 [28])

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Re: Best political system for Assyrians?
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2017, 09:44:36 PM »
Neon, you should definitely read the ideas Lee Kuan Yew had, the guy even saw what kind of religion Islam was...

"I have to speak candidly to be of value, but I do not want to offend the Muslim community... I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came, and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration – friends, inter-marriages and so on – than Muslims... I would say, today, we can integrate all religions and races, except Islam."

    from his book 'Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going' (Asia One, March 08 2011 [28])

I couldn't have said it better.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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