Author Topic: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"  (Read 6651 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline asuryoyo

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
"When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« on: July 05, 2015, 05:43:06 AM »
Shlomo gabore I have a interesting question. I have noticed that under My life when people are attacking because you are an assyrian they say hilarious stuffs but that we already know. One thing I always hear is that s.c arameans says that real assyrians from Iraq doesnt even accept you so how can you follow them. Is there more of you guys that have heard this topic before, and now I'm Asking you all ahunone whether you are East or West. Its always nice too se your perspectives and if others western assyrians recognice this behaviour and if its true how Can we work as a group to stop these things because when outsiders hear it they think its the truth, I mean even my father and the whole big family of uncles believes it..

Hubo & ahunutho



Offline Assyrian_Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 639
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 06:31:17 AM »
This is very interesting. I've heard this myself only from Western Assyrians, this does not exist in my community. It is made up ehre d'tirto to try to alienate Western Assyrians from Eastern.

In Sweden, the Western are more true to our nation than the Eastern, better umtanaye. Assyrians from Iraq are very lazy whereas Othuroye are ambitious in many fields; Assyria TV, Assyriska FF, successful companies in Södertälje, Stockholm and Gothenburg, Assyrians Without Borders (AUG) are some examples. The active Eastern Assyrians are proud of the brothers of West.


Offline Shahin

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 318
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 08:57:57 AM »
This is a really good question and Gabriel Afram adressed this issue in this very interesting video:
! No longer available


And here you have the resume at 15min:
! No longer available


And if you have listened (at least to the resume) you will see that it is a bad conclusion.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 08:58:43 AM by Shahin »
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Assyrian Voice Forum

Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 08:57:57 AM »

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 01:09:21 PM »
This is very interesting. I've heard this myself only from Western Assyrians, this does not exist in my community. It is made up ehre d'tirto to try to alienate Western Assyrians from Eastern.

In Sweden, the Western are more true to our nation than the Eastern, better umtanaye. Assyrians from Iraq are very lazy whereas Othuroye are ambitious in many fields; Assyria TV, Assyriska FF, successful companies in Södertälje, Stockholm and Gothenburg, Assyrians Without Borders (AUG) are some examples. The active Eastern Assyrians are proud of the brothers of West.



I agree, it's time for Eastern Assyrians to pick up the slack and help out our western bros ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

My only issue is idk what to do except continue expanding our language and making books.

Offline asuryoyo

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 09:02:44 AM »
This is very interesting. I've heard this myself only from Western Assyrians, this does not exist in my community. It is made up ehre d'tirto to try to alienate Western Assyrians from Eastern.

In Sweden, the Western are more true to our nation than the Eastern, better umtanaye. Assyrians from Iraq are very lazy whereas Othuroye are ambitious in many fields; Assyria TV, Assyriska FF, successful companies in Södertälje, Stockholm and Gothenburg, Assyrians Without Borders (AUG) are some examples. The active Eastern Assyrians are proud of the brothers of West.



I really hopes so because the irritation that happens when you hear something like that, i just cant describe the feeling. But IF this is a false claim and that some East assyrians didnt say it then its important for some easternes to say that we are one. I have always been looking for a video by a priest or patriarch from the ACOE that says east and west are one but i cant find any.

This is a propaganda that started in the 80's to create illusion within the western assyrians but we have to be stronger and work more with eachother as "mrzurnaci" said. After all IT wasnt long time ago an eastern assyrian Said that assyriska football club is theirs and we just stealing the name haha we have to wake up for real now we are loosing territory and true umthonoye in our lands right now, ettxir bar othur ettxir !

Offline ASHOOR

  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 30222
  • Gender: Male
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
    • Assyrian Voice
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 12:06:13 PM »
You can call me an eastern Assyrian (born in Baghdad, Iraq) and this is the first time I hear this!

If anything, we have often referred to Assyrians in Turkey (those who speak Syriac) as the real hard core Assyrians.

This is just a myth by the Arameans to make you guys regret and rethink your 'decision' as if it is a decision you woke up one day and decided to be Assyrian :lol:


ASHOOR
-Like Assyrian Voice? Want to post here? then join us NOW!

-Booking a hotel anytime soon? Assyrian Voice has an affiliate with Hotels.com : please book through the link below and AssyrianVoice gets a commission from each booking: http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-2932820-10443216-1426796392000

Offline asuryoyo

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 07:38:58 AM »
You can call me an eastern Assyrian (born in Baghdad, Iraq) and this is the first time I hear this!

If anything, we have often referred to Assyrians in Turkey (those who speak Syriac) as the real hard core Assyrians.

This is just a myth by the Arameans to make you guys regret and rethink your 'decision' as if it is a decision you woke up one day and decided to be Assyrian :lol:


ASHOOR

Thank you Ashoor for your comment. When I see brotherhood like this I feel that we can never be divided but I think that we still have to work more with eachothers. We have so many assyrian organizations, I feel like the western assyrians are draging themselves to the organisations of the western part and the east assyrians the opposite. I think that you guys are with me with this question, when people see that we can sit together we can reach our goals better.

About the myth, I also feel like its a myth created in the 80's but I still think that the best were if our political organizations sat together in media. Even better if patriarchs and bishops from our churches did sit together and talked about this because it gives love to the nation and its children. Afterall I havent seen it, i always see meetings between patriarchs but from the ACOE they are always not there. For example I have never heard mar dinkha (slothe xaman) say that western and east are one as a nation.

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4803
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 08:05:45 AM »
Do Turoyo people call themelves "Assyrian" or "Athoory"? Just wondering...
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Assyrian_Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 639
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 10:34:40 AM »
Do Turoyo people call themelves "Assyrian" or "Athoory"? Just wondering...

 :loool:  :loool: We call ourselves Suraye Atoraye, they call themselves Suryoye Othuroye.


About the myth, I also feel like its a myth created in the 80's but I still think that the best were if our political organizations sat together in media. Even better if patriarchs and bishops from our churches did sit together and talked about this because it gives love to the nation and its children. Afterall I havent seen it, i always see meetings between patriarchs but from the ACOE they are always not there. For example I have never heard mar dinkha (slothe xaman) say that western and east are one as a nation.

I don't remember anything about our late patriarch in particular, but he was most definitely considering suryoye to be of the same nation. I do however remember Mar Odisho (Bishop of Europe, ACOE) several times in holiday speeches calling the members of the Syriac Orthodox Church the same people (brothers and sisters), and he has said so also when he was on Assyria TV.

Assyria TV is doing a great job so far involving both Western and Eastern speaking people. They release interviews with both Madenkhaye and Turaye, coordinate programs with ANB, have staff that speak both dialects! Our patriarchs and bishops do occasionally meet and have sit-downs together, but what they discuss and what the possible outcomes are is beyond me.

Believe me brother, West + East is getting closer and closer, at least in Sweden  :)

Offline Assyrian_Man

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 639
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 09:24:29 AM »
For the first time in my life, I met someone who doesn't see us as the same people. The guy meant the suryoyos are oromoye (himself included), and the Easterns are the descendants of Assyrians (the words were the Assyrians from Iraq are real Assyrians, except for those that call themselves suraye, which is funny because we madenkhaye all call ourselves suraye). He said the othuroye are fake.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 10:48:19 AM »
For the first time in my life, I met someone who doesn't see us as the same people. The guy meant the suryoyos are oromoye (himself included), and the Easterns are the descendants of Assyrians (the words were the Assyrians from Iraq are real Assyrians, except for those that call themselves suraye, which is funny because we madenkhaye all call ourselves suraye). He said the othuroye are fake.

oh the irony...

Offline Cascade

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4803
  • Gender: Male
  • Many waters cannot quench love.
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 09:54:35 PM »
For the first time in my life, I met someone who doesn't see us as the same people. The guy meant the suryoyos are oromoye (himself included), and the Easterns are the descendants of Assyrians (the words were the Assyrians from Iraq are real Assyrians, except for those that call themselves suraye, which is funny because we madenkhaye all call ourselves suraye). He said the othuroye are fake.
I'm not surprised.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 10:47:53 AM »
Shlomo gabore I have a interesting question. I have noticed that under My life when people are attacking because you are an assyrian they say hilarious stuffs but that we already know. One thing I always hear is that s.c arameans says that real assyrians from Iraq doesnt even accept you so how can you follow them. Is there more of you guys that have heard this topic before, and now I'm Asking you all ahunone whether you are East or West. Its always nice too se your perspectives and if others western assyrians recognice this behaviour and if its true how Can we work as a group to stop these things because when outsiders hear it they think its the truth, I mean even my father and the whole big family of uncles believes it..

Hubo & ahunutho

The so called arameans are Assyrians aswell and the so called Assyrians are Arameans aswell. We all have Assyrian and Aramean blood! Stop your fanatic Assyrian words! U big horse. We all have Aramean and assyrian history want it or not
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:48:59 AM by Neta1991 »

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 11:06:02 AM »
The so called arameans are Assyrians aswell and the so called Assyrians are Arameans aswell. We all have Assyrian and Aramean blood! Stop your fanatic Assyrian words! U big horse. We all have Aramean and assyrian history want it or not

It doesn't work like that, especially since there are Real Arameans and Pseudo-Arameans.

The Assyrian identity is of those who speak the Syriac language just like the Chaldeans and Pseudo-Arameans

Let me ask you this single question.

Do you believe all Assyrians, Chaldeans, and "Syriac-Arameans" speak one language regardless of dialect, have the same culture, and have the same religion?

If we have 3 MAJOR cultural components that the same across all 3 people, then how are we not all one Assyrian people?

Do you just not prefer the name "Assyrian"?

AHHoni, It doesn't what name you choose but remember that we are all one people with one language, culture, and heritage going back thousands of years.

The name only matters to the outsiders who require a name for us to all identify by. How do you think the average American idiot will think if there's a people with 3 different names? That idiot won't go research into how they're the same people but he'll just think they're separate people who just have a common language when that's not the case at all...

As an example, I never truly tell Nokhraye that I'm Assyrian, I tell them that I'm Mesopotamian.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:07:35 AM by mrzurnaci »

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2015, 01:26:44 PM »
It doesn't work like that, especially since there are Real Arameans and Pseudo-Arameans.

The Assyrian identity is of those who speak the Syriac language just like the Chaldeans and Pseudo-Arameans

Let me ask you this single question.

Do you believe all Assyrians, Chaldeans, and "Syriac-Arameans" speak one language regardless of dialect, have the same culture, and have the same religion?

If we have 3 MAJOR cultural components that the same across all 3 people, then how are we not all one Assyrian people?

Do you just not prefer the name "Assyrian"?

AHHoni, It doesn't what name you choose but remember that we are all one people with one language, culture, and heritage going back thousands of years.

The name only matters to the outsiders who require a name for us to all identify by. How do you think the average American idiot will think if there's a people with 3 different names? That idiot won't go research into how they're the same people but he'll just think they're separate people who just have a common language when that's not the case at all...

As an example, I never truly tell Nokhraye that I'm Assyrian, I tell them that I'm Mesopotamian.

I never call myself assyrian or aramean but only Syriac. I love my Syriac heritage and history from the time we were Assyrians and Arameans to the time we became Syriacs. My right name for all of us is Suryoye or Syriacs. Thats what we used to call ourselves. Thats what my Mother, father, brother call themselves but my Sister call herself Syriac-assyrian due to the fact that her husband call himself Assyrian.

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2015, 01:28:54 PM »
Btw l am not religious

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2015, 04:52:25 PM »
I never call myself assyrian or aramean but only Syriac. I love my Syriac heritage and history from the time we were Assyrians and Arameans to the time we became Syriacs. My right name for all of us is Suryoye or Syriacs. Thats what we used to call ourselves. Thats what my Mother, father, brother call themselves but my Sister call herself Syriac-assyrian due to the fact that her husband call himself Assyrian.

Syriac is fine, so is Assyrian. It doesn't matter really what you call yourself (as long as it "fits") but only as long as you understand the idea of the overall identity that we are one distinct people.

I remember reading an article about the Dawronoye about how they tried to recruit Chaldean-Assyrians in Iraq but their efforts failed because those Assyrians had no sense of identity. Lemme put up the quote from the article.

"After Dawronoye were forced out from the Badinan area, they had tried to mobilise the small Syriac communities in the PUK zone, but with little success. “The people in those areas had started calling themselves 'Christian Kurds'. They had no concept of an own identity”, Sargon explains. Dawronoye instead turned their focus to the larger Syriac communities residing in Mosul and on the Nineveh plains, outside of the no-fly zone.

Since they shared common enemies, Saddam Hussein’s government tolerated a limited presence of PKK cadres in the nearby Makhmour refugee camp, and they would now provide cover for Dawronoye. “I could move around in the Mosul area, but had to be very alert, because the Mukhabarat [the intelligence service] was extremely good at detecting people who behaved in an odd way”, says Sargon, who arrived in Makhmour in the autumn of 2001 and remained for about a year.

He and his comrades successfully organised a network of local intelligence operatives, but their attempts to awaken some kind of political and national consciousness in the wider Syriac population failed. “Those who called themselves Assyrians were nationalistic, but the Chaldeans and Syriacs just saw themselves as Christians. They did not know any better, they did not even know that they and the Assyrians are the same people”, Sargon says, adding another explanation: “They thought Saddam would never fall, and you sensed the fear in the population. The fear of the state was immense.” "

From the article named "Revolutionaries of Bethnahrin"

We need to focus more on awakening a national consciousness before we start naming it. We're jumping the gun while others haven't even bought the bullets to load their gun ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2015, 05:54:30 PM »
In 2014, Israel has decided to recognize the Aramean community within its borders as a national minority, allowing most of the Syriac Christians in Israel (around 10,000) to be registered as "Aramean" instead of "Arab". This decision on part of the Israeli Interior Ministry highlights the growing awareness regarding the distinctness of the Aramean identity as well as their plight due to the historical Arabization of the region.

Good luck with being united. It will never happen. Maybe in about 200 years from now.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2015, 11:09:33 PM »
In 2014, Israel has decided to recognize the Aramean community within its borders as a national minority, allowing most of the Syriac Christians in Israel (around 10,000) to be registered as "Aramean" instead of "Arab". This decision on part of the Israeli Interior Ministry highlights the growing awareness regarding the distinctness of the Aramean identity as well as their plight due to the historical Arabization of the region.

Good luck with being united. It will never happen. Maybe in about 200 years from now.

There are Arameans living in Israel but Arameans do not speak Syriac.

That's another thing, Arameans were heavily Arabized while Assyrians were not.

We'll be united by 10-20 years since the Syriac Orthodox Church is opening its eyes.

For the last damn time Neta, you're not Aramean get over it...

You and your family speaks Syriac and reads Syriac; Arameans don't speak Syriac and, considering they have their own native dialect of Aramaic, it makes little to no sense that they'd know/speak Syriac.

The land of Aram-Nahraim is the area of the Levant. The area that Pseudo-Arameans like you live in is considered upper Mesopotamia.

Just like Assyrians and Assyro-Chaldeans, you guys use Syriac in liturgy and home talk...

In fact, you should read this -> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3FFWr3FjZWEMktrN21IQ3phSVE/view?usp=sharing

Title is : "The Chaldean Assyrian Syriac People of Iraq An Ethnic Identity Problem", an essay by PhD Shak Hanish

here's his contact incase you need him...



Dr. Shak Hanish
    Associate Professor
    College of Letters and Sciences
    Social Sciences
    Administrative Offices
    shanish@nu.edu
    (858) 642-8494

Offline Etain

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 876
  • Gender: Female
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 01:05:33 AM »
I assumed the west Assyrians are just remnants from the days when Assyria was all of Syria and Iraq. Look how far away Sadad and Ma'loula are from Nineveh.They survived as a culture by being in villages arabs didn't conquer.

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2015, 04:42:35 AM »
I dont call myself aramean or Assyrian just syriac

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2015, 10:43:05 AM »
I assumed the west Assyrians are just remnants from the days when Assyria was all of Syria and Iraq. Look how far away Sadad and Ma'loula are from Nineveh.They survived as a culture by being in villages arabs didn't conquer.

There's a quandry now lol.

Sadad is Western Aramaic town but the residents are part of the Syriac Orthodox church?

Can this be confirmed? I thought most Arameans/Western-Aramaic-speakers were Greek Melkite or Greek Orthodox since the original Aramean homeland was under Byzantine control.

Offline Etain

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 876
  • Gender: Female
  • www.AssyrianVoice.net
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2015, 12:53:24 PM »
There's a quandry now lol.

Sadad is Western Aramaic town but the residents are part of the Syriac Orthodox church?

Can this be confirmed? I thought most Arameans/Western-Aramaic-speakers were Greek Melkite or Greek Orthodox since the original Aramean homeland was under Byzantine control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadad,_Syria - Syriac Orthodox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27loula- Antiochan Orthodox and Melkite

http://www.muturzikin.com/cartesasie/imagesasie/1.png
Notice how far away the two different groups are of Aramaic speakers are.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 12:56:02 PM by Etain »

Offline Shahin

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 318
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2015, 04:45:01 PM »
You guys need to differentiate between Western Aramaic speakers (WNA) and Arameans nationalists:

-Western Aramaic speakers are today only found in the 3 villages of Syria (Ma'loula and the others) and are Melkites (if I'm not mistaken) and muslims. I don't know what these WNA speakers considers themselves, but we can say that they are ethnic Arameans based on their tongue and geographical position compared to North Mesopotamia. Note that these peoples call their language "Surion".

-Aramean nationalists: Which are for the  vast majority (99%), mostly Suryoye from Tur'Abdin or Syriac Orthodox, speaking Sureyt (known as Turoyo in Academic studies, but Sureyt is the native name) and as you know Suryoye are of the same stock as other Syriac speaking Christians (Church of the East, Syriac Catholics and Chaldeans), North-Mesopotamian. The 1% are melkites&maronites (the "Arameans" from Israel, as you know they started to teach and speak classical Syriac in their villages) and Suryaye (Syriac Catholic from Nineveh plains) who are joining this nationalist movement since a few decades. And as you know, Aramean nationalism aims at overthrowing Assyrian nationalim, they replace everything with "Aramean", they don't give even a chance to "Syriac" since for them Syriac means Arameans so they will ultimately replace it or add Arameans.

For the Syriac orthodox people of Sadad, according to Hasyo George Saliba (
in this video in Turoyo
) they don't speak Turoyo (which is normal since Turoyo is a NENA and the only mass migration of Suryoye occured during the Seyfo and they settled in Qamishlo and its surroundings...). They speak arabic, He even says that they are arabs. But they will probably call themselves Syriac or Aramean today because, thanks to Suryoye from Tur'abdin, Syriac Orthodox are torn today between Assyrian nationalism and Aramean nationalism.

And before one of you say Suryoye aren't Assyrians: Be aware that many Assyrian nationalist were "Suryoye": Ashur Yausif, Farid Nazha, Nau'm Faiq, Ninos Aho, Abdmshiho Dqarabah, Malfono Tuma Nahroyo. Suryoye founded Assyriska (and of course Syrianska), AssyriaTV, SuroyoTV and SuryoyoSAT (this one only broadcast in Turoyo while SuroyoTV and AssyriaTV broadcast in Suryoyo and Suryaya, the two dialects) many Assyrian organisation in Europe are founded by Suryoye (mostly in Sweden, Germany, Netherland, USA, few in Belgium and Switzeland and possibly other countries). Aramean nationalists are in Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, France, USA...). The Syriac Military council is made up of Suryoye, same for Gozarto Protection force (the "Sootoro" which is part of GPU is made up of Suryoye).
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2015, 04:29:52 PM »
If some of the syriacs, suryoye, or anyone else says that they are arameans then let me be arameans and if they say that they are assyrians then let them be assyrians, who cares. I mean they do have proof that they are what they are even if there are other proof that they might be assyrians. There are actually ancient text that others and the church called themselves arameans and there are others that they called themselves assyrians.... just saying. Why bother... and of course other stones that the name of syria derives from assyria and so on.... but just saying. stop telling others who they are and if they dont want to listen

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2015, 04:54:34 PM »
If some of the syriacs, suryoye, or anyone else says that they are arameans then let me be arameans and if they say that they are assyrians then let them be assyrians, who cares. I mean they do have proof that they are what they are even if there are other proof that they might be assyrians. There are actually ancient text that others and the church called themselves arameans and there are others that they called themselves assyrians.... just saying. Why bother... and of course other stones that the name of syria derives from assyria and so on.... but just saying. stop telling others who they are and if they dont want to listen

ohhhhh ok, if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, we should just let them believe the earth is flat?

Arameans are the "flat earth believers" of the 'omta...

They absolutely do not have proof, where is this proof and how does it stack against the proof we've provided?

It's already been established that Arameans do NOT speak any dialect of Syriac, The Aramean homeland is parts of Lebanon and the large area around Damascus/Darmsuq, Turoyo is classified as EASTERN Aramaic along with the rest of the Syriac dialects, many Assyrian nationalists and omtonoye originate from the Syriac Orthodox Church and Syriac Catholic Church...

Why bother? Because the Pseudo-Aramaeans believe they and Assyrians are different people when that's 100% incorrect...

Why do they accept the name "Suraya" like other Syriac-speaking peoples do?

name of the Syriac Orthodox Church - ܥܕܬܐ ܣܘܪܝܝܬܐ ܬܪܝܨܬ ܫܘܒܚܐ

'edta suryayta treeSt shovHa -> church, syrian/syriac, of the right praise

Am I wrong or right?

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2015, 05:05:35 PM »
because some of the ancient greek historians called arameans syrians becuase one of them said thats what they call themselves and of course they called assyrians syrians too and the church leaders like efrem the syrian called his people arameans..... and the church leaders some of them still says that we are arameans. and they speak eastern aramaic maybe because the assyrians adopted the language and changed it a little bit and maybe because the persians talked aramaic and maybe made it eastern... l dont know. what l am saying is some of the ancient said we are arameans. why lie about who they are. it doesnt make any sense and the people wouldnt lie about who they are.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 05:07:38 PM by Neta1991 »

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2015, 05:31:28 PM »
and btw dont forget that the assyrians moved the people from they conquered elsewere in the empire and they did the same with the arameans. they brought them to assyria.

Offline Shahin

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 318
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2015, 05:41:05 PM »
It's not about "letting them say they are Aramean" or "Some people said that our people is Aramean".
The thing is to this day, among Suryoye,  the Aramean movement (Suryoye Aramean nationalist) has never accepted dialogue with the Assyrian side (Suryoye Assyrian nationalists).
Because not only they know their arguments are fallacious, but they also just want division to keep their asses on all the organisations founded and businesses made with.
Moreover, what did they see the need to start a new movement from scratch while our people was already almost united under the name Assyrian ?
Why Johnny Messo go to Armenia during the 100th Genocide commemoration day and say :"It's not Assyrian Genocide, it's Aramean Genocie ?", does it benefit to our people ?
ܚܢܢ ܟܠܢ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ܡܢ ܐܫܘܪ
We are all Assyrians !

Offline Asshur

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 396
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2015, 05:54:10 PM »
I assumed the west Assyrians are just remnants from the days when Assyria was all of Syria and Iraq. Look how far away Sadad and Ma'loula are from Nineveh.They survived as a culture by being in villages arabs didn't conquer.
The christians of maloula are not even Arameans you stupid **** those are Rom Greeks in others words the Selucid greeks Alexander brought with himself
I am Ashurbanipal, the great king, the mighty king, king of the universe, king of Assyria, king of the four quarters of the world; offspring of the loins of Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, viceroy of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad; grandson of Sennacherib, king of the universe, king of Assyria.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2015, 07:02:36 PM »
The christians of maloula are not even Arameans you stupid **** those are Rom Greeks in others words the Selucid greeks Alexander brought with himself


Asshur, don't be an ass and call people names.

The Christians of Ma'loula are genuinely Aramean, they speak Western Neo-Aramaic...

because some of the ancient greek historians called arameans syrians becuase one of them said thats what they call themselves and of course they called assyrians syrians too and the church leaders like efrem the syrian called his people arameans..... and the church leaders some of them still says that we are arameans. and they speak eastern aramaic maybe because the assyrians adopted the language and changed it a little bit and maybe because the persians talked aramaic and maybe made it eastern... l dont know. what l am saying is some of the ancient said we are arameans. why lie about who they are. it doesnt make any sense and the people wouldnt lie about who they are.


Greeks considered Aramea as part of Assyria because, when they [Greeks] travelled the region, the Assyrian empire still dominated the Levant region.

Also, what about the Roman empire who differentiated the "Aramean-Syrians" and "Assyrians"?

Look at a map of the Roman at its highest extent. You'll see two territories labeled as "Syria" and "Assyria"

Ephrem called his people as Arameans? Citation/Source please :)

"church leaders some of them still says that we are arameans"

How educated are church leaders compared to Historians, Linguistic scientists, and Genealogists combined?

"they speak eastern aramaic maybe because the assyrians adopted the language and changed it a little bit and maybe because the persians talked aramaic and maybe made it eastern... l dont know."

Assyro-Babylonians replaced Akkadian with Aramaic because 1. Aramaic alphabet was easier to learn than Akkadian cuneiform and 2. Many Arameans who were migrated or deported into Mesopotamia spread their language to many communities and the Akkadian community decided to integrate it.

However, those Arameans merged into the overall Mesopotamian population. Modern Assyrians are only part Aramean, same with the Iraqi Arabs that descend from Mesopotamians.

The ones who stayed in Aram-Nahraim eventually became the Western Aramaic population that resides around Aram-Damascus/Aram-Darmsuq.

It's nice to acknowledge the Aramean side of our history but to only focus on the Aramean side is an insult to the real Arameans that have survived Arabization and Islamization and it's an insult to our Mesopotamian ancestors who formed our heritage, inventions/discoveries, and Syriac language.

We are a Syriac-speaking Semitic Mesopotamian people, Arameans are a Western Aramaic-speaking Levantine Semitic people.

You should also know that it was during the Greek Seleucid empire that Syriac began emerging...

Then there's the earlier empire of the Achaemenid Persians who differentiated Assyrians and Arameans by the land of Assyria and Eber-Nari...

I can research even more with the databases that my school provides, if you want me to provide more info

http://www.ccc.edu/departments/Pages/Library-Databases.aspx

I found alot of interesting sources on Assyrians and Kurds; you can even check if they're peer-reviewed too.

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2015, 07:39:38 PM »
Herodotus points out that the people the Greeks call Syrians, were called by the syrians themselves arameans and this is just one of many.

Offline mrzurnaci

  • Special Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6260
  • Gender: Male
    • Zurnaya's Youtube
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2015, 09:49:43 PM »
Herodotus points out that the people the Greeks call Syrians, were called by the syrians themselves arameans and this is just one of many.

Was this area of Syria considered the Levant? Because I don't see what you're trying to prove considering that the area of Syria back then was the Levant which is the homeland of the Arameans and Phoenicians along with the Jews...

Eber Nari...


Hellene Syria aka Coele (Kuleh) Syria



Roman Syria



Muslim invasion of Syria




It seems Syria was pretty much considered the area of the Levant while Mesopotamia/Assyria/Asuristan was considered separate and as the land of Assyrians so I don't understand what you're trying to prove here...

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2015, 12:28:17 PM »
but l dont understand... what are you trying to say? the syriac churchleaders and our historians have told the syriacs who they are for over 2000 years according to a syrianska fc fan..... and its true for that matter. they have on texts. if you want to know then search on google.

Offline Neta1991

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Gender: Male
Re: "When east-assyrians says west assyrians are false?"
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2015, 01:44:01 PM »
have you ever noticed that there is a reason to why syriacs call themselves arameans and assyrians, because the greeks called both assyrians and arameans syrians and till this day we are confused. the syriac churchfathers said we are arameans and there must be a reason. We both call ourselves suryoyo/suryaya, maybe becuase the greeks called us syrians and we accepted syrian/suryoyo/suryaya and then we are arameans and assyrians becuase the greeks called both of that people under the name syrians. And we probably accepted that name syrian after christianization and after rome accepted it 300 AD. Then we were under the roman empire influence and we wanted to accept their name syrian because to the east lies the sassanid empire and they were not christians.

 

NYTimes article on Assyrians "This the End of Christianity in the Middle East?"

Started by MacrossBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 6
Views: 761
Last post July 29, 2015, 01:42:41 AM
by Etain
North Americans Say "Good Friday", Assyrians say "Sad Friday: who is right?

Started by ASHOORBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 5
Views: 1125
Last post April 14, 2006, 04:45:22 PM
by ASHOOR
FINALLY got my "The Assyrians" Board Game!

Started by EnkiBoard Chit Chat

Replies: 10
Views: 1176
Last post May 03, 2006, 12:53:56 PM
by Hookah
MOVED: "Safe Haven For Assyrians"

Started by Free_AssyriaBoard Culture & History

Replies: 0
Views: 907
Last post March 20, 2008, 01:19:45 AM
by Free_Assyria
"Safe Haven For Assyrians"

Started by assyrian girlBoard News & Current Events

Replies: 8
Views: 1695
Last post March 24, 2008, 07:07:59 PM
by rumrum
Templates: 4: index (default), Ads (default), Display (default), SimTopics (default).
Sub templates: 12: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, simtopics_above, main, simtopics_below, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 10: index+Modifications.english (default), index+Modifications.english-utf8 (default), markItUp.english (default), markItUp.english-utf8 (default), SimTopics.english (default), SimTopics.english-utf8 (default), Ads.english (default), Ads.english-utf8 (default), Aeva.english (default), Aeva.english-utf8 (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 29 - 977KB. (show)
Queries used: 25.

[Show Queries]